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Tags diet issues , dietary science , obesity

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Old 14th June 2020, 02:39 PM   #361
Pope130
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
The problem with that was that salt is really not the demon it has been made out to be for so many years.

It's Time to End the War on Salt



It's one of those red herrings the medical establishment embraces instead of addressing the real nutrtional problems.

I'm sure the " Heart Healthy " endorsement sells a lot of animal feed pretending to be healthful breakfast food.


I was nearly a casualty of The War On Salt. During the period of my first couple of deployments to South West Asia the Air Force medical branch was very concerned about hypertension. They not only mandated low sodium meals, but also banned use of salt tablets in the field.
During the second trip it hit 122 F in the shade at Dhahran (only there aint no shade) and could be 90 degrees hotter inside the aircraft when you first open it up. You sweat gallons and wind up sodium and potassium depleted.
We solved this by trading with the Brits for salt tablets. Easy trade, as we had access to fresh veggies, current British newspapers and magazines, and Scotch. I sometimes wonder if the British supply people were puzzled by the amount of salt tabs some of their units used.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:36 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
I was nearly a casualty of The War On Salt. During the period of my first couple of deployments to South West Asia the Air Force medical branch was very concerned about hypertension. They not only mandated low sodium meals, but also banned use of salt tablets in the field.
During the second trip it hit 122 F in the shade at Dhahran (only there aint no shade) and could be 90 degrees hotter inside the aircraft when you first open it up. You sweat gallons and wind up sodium and potassium depleted.
We solved this by trading with the Brits for salt tablets. Easy trade, as we had access to fresh veggies, current British newspapers and magazines, and Scotch. I sometimes wonder if the British supply people were puzzled by the amount of salt tabs some of their units used.
I worked on farms summertime in the California Central Valley usually 100 degrees. Salt tabs were considered good for you then.
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Old 15th June 2020, 08:12 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Right. A magic pill
Are you accusing the journal Nature of publishing papers that appeal to magic? That’s a somewhat extraordinary claim that I think requires some extraordinary evidence.
Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
instead of healthier eating habits.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

Don’t consume more calories that you need hasn’t been effective in combating obesity, not because it doesn’t work but because people who are prone to obesity nearly always fall back into consuming more calories than they need. Why keep repeating a failed approach if an alternative is available?
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:15 AM   #364
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Quote:
Don’t consume more calories that you need hasn’t been effective in combating obesity,
No argument from me..

There’s no sugar-coating it: All calories are not created equal

Still, we don't need another drug that addresses symptoms rather than the cause..
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:50 PM   #365
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I think that we can all agree that healthy food and exercise is the best 'cure'.
We can probably also agree that pharma companies like to sell pills. The companies that sell insulin to diabetics often aren't very keen on telling type-2 diabetics (and even more so: pre-diabetics) that exercise and proper food make them healthy again, that they don't need medicine at all.
But that doesn't mean that nobody needs insulin. Type-1 diabetics - and some type-1 diabetics as well - do need insulin. It's a life-saver.

I also don't think that the mitochondrial uncoupler BAM15 should replace nutritional food and exercise, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be used to help people who are morbidly obese and can't slim down in any other way. If it can do that, I see no reason to call it "another drug that addresses symptoms."
(That is if it actually does work on humans and doesn't have any significant side effects, which remains to be seen.)
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:43 PM   #366
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Quote:
I see no reason to call it "another drug that addresses symptoms."
What would you call it?

I don't disagree that it could be used to help people who are morbidly obese, if it in fact does that without dangerous side effects.
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Old 15th June 2020, 08:20 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
What would you call it?

I don't disagree that it could be used to help people who are morbidly obese, if it in fact does that without dangerous side effects.
I didn't read the BAM link, but diabetes starts in the cells, with insulin resistance. But as long as your pancreas can put out enough insulin to overcome that resistance, you have normal sugar levels. But as you age, your pancreas gets tired of all that excess work. NOW you get diabetes.

Ibeleive that most of the effects attributed to diabete's high sugar levels are actually from the huge high insulin level- (maybe 6x? ) is caused by the insulin acting as Insulin Like Growth Factor, IGF. See <pseudo acromegaly> or <insulin resistance>. See also IRS-1 gene, Insulin Receptor Substrate #1, do I need to explain it's relationship?

So yes, diabetes is a genetic disease, and a treatment inside the cells, maybe all the way into the mitochondria, has possibilities. Citrulline, an amino acid, has some effect on the inner side of the insulin receptor at the cell wall. It's not the silver bullet, but shows the science is possible.
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Old 16th June 2020, 06:31 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I think that we can all agree that healthy food and exercise is the best 'cure'.
We can probably also agree that pharma companies like to sell pills. The companies that sell insulin to diabetics often aren't very keen on telling type-2 diabetics (and even more so: pre-diabetics) that exercise and proper food make them healthy again, that they don't need medicine at all.
But that doesn't mean that nobody needs insulin. Type-1 diabetics - and some type-1 diabetics as well - do need insulin. It's a life-saver.

I also don't think that the mitochondrial uncoupler BAM15 should replace nutritional food and exercise, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be used to help people who are morbidly obese and can't slim down in any other way. If it can do that, I see no reason to call it "another drug that addresses symptoms."
(That is if it actually does work on humans and doesn't have any significant side effects, which remains to be seen.)
It’s still good advice but there is more than enough evidence to say it doesn’t work very well. This is not a question of people not knowing or not trying. Ultimately we are slaves to the chemical signals than tell us to eat, if those signals are telling us to eat and high calorie food is available we will consume. We may be able to contain that for a while, but the evidence is telling us we can’t do it forever.

Cultural changes to make high calorie food less available, or increase the effort level of obtaining calories by eating food that is more difficult to prepare and eat can help. We can fake this out a bit, but we can’t control the habits of the people around us so this would require society wide changes, It doesn’t seem to be something that works all that well on an individual basis.

Exercise works until age or injury start to limit your activity level. Additional responsibilities and time constraints can also limit how exercise you can get. Once these start to kick in, most people can’t depend on it.
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Old 16th June 2020, 10:18 AM   #369
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Cultural changes, society wide changes..

It sounds like you are ruling out personal responsibility..
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Old 16th June 2020, 10:57 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post

It sounds like you are ruling out personal responsibility..
If “personal responsibility” had proved effective I’d be all for it but the fact is that telling people with weight control problems to eat less has been about as effective at dealing with obesity as telling teenagers to abstain from having sex is at preventing teen pregnancy.
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Old 16th June 2020, 11:18 AM   #371
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If we had more government responsibility we would not need as much personal responsibility.

The next edition of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Dietary Guidelines will have a preliminary/comment release on July 15. Tomorrow, June 17, there is an Advisory Committee’s Draft Report Meeting. One or more Committee member(s) came forward and blew the whistle on the process ignoring science.

Time to Speak up Against Dietary Guidelines that Ignore Science
https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/ne...ignore-science

A Low-Carb Strategy for Fighting the Pandemic’s Toll
https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/ne...pandemics-toll
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Old 16th June 2020, 12:46 PM   #372
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I agree that we need more government responsibility in the area of advice backed by science.

We certainly need less government involvement in promoting and subsidizing the crops that are at the heart of the problem.
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Old 19th June 2020, 11:40 AM   #373
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Advice backed by science: Saturated Fats and Health: A Reassessment and Proposal for Food-based Recommendations: JACC State-of -the-Art Review (Journal of the American College of Cardiology, June 2020)
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Old 19th June 2020, 01:11 PM   #374
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Great article...

One has to wonder why the science has escaped so many for so long.
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Old 19th June 2020, 01:21 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Great article...

One has to wonder why the science has escaped so many for so long.
Possibly because the low fat crusade has become an industry in itself which has every reason to play down the science?
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Old 20th June 2020, 12:09 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
One has to wonder why the science has escaped so many for so long.
When science is avoided, roundup the usual suspects: religion (Seventh-day Adventist in this case) and industry.

Belinda Fettke - 'Nutrition Science: How did we get here?'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTe-eitOJGA
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Old 21st June 2020, 06:34 AM   #377
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Great slogan: For the Separation of Church and Plate!

It seems to be a genuine conspiracy to push carbs and demonize meat, dairy and eggs.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:42 PM   #378
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Let's not get carried away and go the opposite direction just because low fat didn't work.

High fat isn't a magic bullet.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:44 PM   #379
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I'm thinking COVID-19's death toll is so high because of global obesity.

Obesity/unfitness/bad cardiovascular systems.
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Old 29th June 2020, 02:35 AM   #380
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Boris Johnson is going to put the UK "on a diet"

Quote:
The Sunday Times this week reported that the prime minister was planning to "put the nation on a diet" - including the wider use of bariatric surgery - in order to try to limit the impact of a second wave of coronavirus.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

Given how effective the rest of his Coronavirus policies have been, I'll go out and buy some larger trousers.

I wonder if any of the bariatric surgery will be enforced ?
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Old 29th June 2020, 07:17 AM   #381
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Just shows how uninformed he is.
Removing the fat in obesity, doesn't remove the underlying health issues that compromise the immune system.
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Old 2nd July 2020, 10:06 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I'm thinking COVID-19's death toll is so high because of global obesity.

Obesity/unfitness/bad cardiovascular systems.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Boris Johnson is going to put the UK "on a diet"



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't then doing what I imply.

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Just shows how uninformed he is.
Removing the fat in obesity, doesn't remove the underlying health issues that compromise the immune system.
Except normally weight loss is accompanied by cardiovascular health improvement - which would mean less risk factors for coronavirus.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 06:59 AM   #383
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The EPIC-Oxford study of vegetarianism showed no mortality advantage to the vegetarian diet. Less obviously, it showed no health advantage to less red meat or lower animal fats, and no advantage to high fiber. I wonder if enough of them were fitness buffs to also infer that here is no advantage to exercise?

One thing wrong with the hypothesis is that while there is a Big Statin & Big Ag to exaggerate the anti-animal fat claims, there is no Big Exercise to exaggerate the advantage of fitness. Or is there? Was Jack LaLanne the Ancel Keyes of the fitness industry? In the same way as the stock market is a Ponzi scheme with no Ponzi?
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Old 3rd July 2020, 11:23 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
... there is no Big Exercise to exaggerate the advantage of fitness. Or is there? ...
Yes, Coca-Cola is behind one effort:

Coke's Ineffective and Disingenuous Exercise Is Medicine Scheme
https://www.crossfit.com/battles/cok...edicine-scheme

CrossFit Catches ACSM In Lie And Cover-Up About Exercise Is Medicine
https://www.crossfit.com/battles/cro...se-is-medicine
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Old 3rd July 2020, 12:49 PM   #385
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Quote:
Except normally weight loss is accompanied by cardiovascular health improvement - which would mean less risk factors for coronavirus.
I'm totally with you on this..

However, a healthy regimen that results in weight loss might not be a lot of help this time around..

That said, it's never too late to get healthy..
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Old 4th July 2020, 02:08 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
...the stock market is a Ponzi scheme with no Ponzi?
Heh, I quite like that analogy.


Originally Posted by TruthJonsen View Post
Yes, Coca-Cola is behind one effort:

Coke's Ineffective and Disingenuous Exercise Is Medicine Scheme
https://www.crossfit.com/battles/cok...edicine-scheme

CrossFit Catches ACSM In Lie And Cover-Up About Exercise Is Medicine
https://www.crossfit.com/battles/cro...se-is-medicine
"Three men — Steven Blair, Gregory A. Hand, and James O. Hill — helped Coke found the GEBN in order to influence nutrition science from a pro-beverage industry position. These men maintained leadership roles with the soda-funded ACSM for decades"

Benefits of hindsight?

Perhaps 20-30 years ago when people were playing sport and it wasn't enough to drink just water, Coke etc became useful. Higher-energy drinks are actually quite useful so you don't pass out.


Plus, do you really think anybody is stupid enough to think drinking Coke makes you thin? That's pretty uncharitable of others.
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Old 4th July 2020, 02:29 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
The EPIC-Oxford study of vegetarianism showed no mortality advantage to the vegetarian diet. Less obviously, it showed no health advantage to less red meat or lower animal fats, and no advantage to high fiber. I wonder if enough of them were fitness buffs to also infer that here is no advantage to exercise?
So why then people living in countries where meat is less common and fish and vegetables more common tend to live longer? Say, Japan.
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Old 4th July 2020, 02:50 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by MMarco View Post
So why then people living in countries where meat is less common and fish and vegetables more common tend to live longer? Say, Japan.
Average height in Japan is unusually low, and short people tend to live longer than tall people , so maybe it's that?

Seriously, "correlation does not equal causation" is a scientific principle for a reason. Whatever the actual explanation is, it's unlikely to all be down to just one single, simple, thing like the amount of meat in the diet or height.
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Old 4th July 2020, 04:58 AM   #389
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Food for Thought 2020: The science and politics of nutrition - Expert talks on nutrition & health (Swiss Re Institute/BMJ, June 29-30, 2020)

Several relevant lectures:

Type 2 diabetes reversal
Public health response to ultra-processed food and drinks
Can nutrition support healthy cognitive aging and reduce dementia risk?
Vitamin and mineral supplements: Patterns of use and potential roles in health and reduction of chronic disease risk
Food and mood: How do diet and nutrition affect healthy wellbeing?
Population approaches to promote healthy eating: Is ensuring affordability and availability of healthy food enough?
Evidence in nutrition research: when should we change our minds?
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 4th July 2020, 06:44 AM   #390
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Good info dann!

Originally Posted by MMarco View Post
So why then people living in countries where meat is less common and fish and vegetables more common tend to live longer? Say, Japan.
Contrary to popular opinion, fish is meat..
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Old 4th July 2020, 02:32 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by MMarco View Post
So why then people living in countries where meat is less common and fish and vegetables more common tend to live longer? Say, Japan.
There are many other variables, like genes, and "feeding your genes". But, do you have data to back up that assertion? Or more exaggeration from Ancel Keyes?

And, how much longer, and what do they die from? The Veggies want to give the impression that they live forever, and have NO heart attacks, no strokes, no cancer. If the advantages were that strong, we wouldn't need studies to look at it. It would be OBVIOUS.

And their data, do the Japanese include infant mortality, or just leave those short lives out of the equation?
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Old 13th August 2020, 04:06 PM   #392
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America’s Obesity Epidemic Threatens Effectiveness of Any COVID Vaccine
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Scientists know that vaccines engineered to protect the public from influenza, hepatitis B, tetanus and rabies can be less effective in obese adults than in the general population, leaving them more vulnerable to infection and illness. There is little reason to believe, obesity researchers say, that COVID-19 vaccines will be any different.
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Old 25th August 2020, 03:42 AM   #393
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This just in: August 2020

Saturated Fats and Health: A Reassessment and Proposal for Food-Based Recommendations

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Whole-fat dairy, unprocessed meat, and dark chocolate are SFA-rich foods with a complex matrix that are not associated with increased risk of CVD. The totality of available evidence does not support further limiting the intake of such foods.
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Old 25th August 2020, 03:55 AM   #394
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I'll order whipped cream and low-carb chocolate sauce with my next cheese burger!
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th August 2020, 01:20 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
This just in: August 2020

Saturated Fats and Health: A Reassessment and Proposal for Food-Based Recommendations ......By the 1970s, many experimental studies in animal models were conducted with dietary coconut oil of unspecified origin, which reliably caused dramatic increases in hepatic and blood cholesterol in rodents; this was taken as evidence that dietary SFAs are inherently atherogenic (95,96). However, coconut oils of the era were usually highly processed and often fully hydrogenated..... The overall health effect of fats and oils depends on the content of SFAs and unsaturated fatty acids but is not merely the sum of the effects of the individual lipid components. Rather, it depends on the interacting effects from naturally occurring components and from unhealthy compounds introduced by processing. These compounds are often overlooked in the assessment of health effects of oils and fats, and the risk of this is illustrated by the “trans-fat” story.....
I've always thought that the real culprit is the trans fats in Hydrogenated Veggie Oil. I believe the early studies lumped HVO in with the natural Sat Fat. So the natural fats got blamed when the culprit was actually the veggie oils. But I said "I believe" because I've never read that hypothesis elsewhere. This paper is the closest, but not the smoking gun.
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Old 25th August 2020, 05:00 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
The EPIC-Oxford study of vegetarianism showed no mortality advantage to the vegetarian diet. Less obviously, it showed no health advantage to less red meat or lower animal fats, and no advantage to high fiber. I wonder if enough of them were fitness buffs to also infer that here is no advantage to exercise?
No, the opposite is the problem. Same problem that we see with the Nurses study. The signal of potential effects of diet seem to be drowned out by the noise of overwhelming obesity. It's possible that above a certain body fat percentage, eating a few more carrots a week just doesn't do anything.



Originally Posted by casebro View Post
One thing wrong with the hypothesis is that while there is a Big Statin & Big Ag to exaggerate the anti-animal fat claims, there is no Big Exercise to exaggerate the advantage of fitness. Or is there? Was Jack LaLanne the Ancel Keyes of the fitness industry? In the same way as the stock market is a Ponzi scheme with no Ponzi?
There's absolutely a Big Exercise. It's called the junk food sector. Been this way for at least 50 years.

If there's one thing they reliably invest in, it's sports and the message that you can eat or drink as much junk food as you want, just exercise it off.

Here in Canada, the big investors in kids athletics and Participaction are Coke, Tim Hortons Donuts, McDonald's, A&W, Domino's and the like.

They're the funders of research-for-hire that gets press release ready results about how kids are fat because they're lazy, not because they drink too much cola or eat too many french fries.

In fact, kids in the West are more active than ever. And they're more active than their thinner African counterparts, which surprises a lot of people. We all just consume too many calories, is the problem. But that kind of message isn't part of many profitable business models, so it's not getting the equivalent research and advertising funding.
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Old 25th August 2020, 06:57 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's manifestly not true. Few people follow guidelines exactly, but the general advice to eat low fat diets made a huge difference in American food consumption patterns, and for the worse.
No it didn't and this is the big hole in macronutrient claims. It drives me nuts because it's like hearing that "we only use ten percent of our brain," thing. It's evidence that if something is repeated enough, people start to believe it.

The publication of nutrition guidelines had a medically trivial impact on macronutrient consumption. People were advised to reduce the amount of fat in their diet... but we didn't do this.

Here's the standard list of macros:
* fat
* sugars & starches (metabolic carbs)
* soluble and insoluble fibre (nonmetabolic carbs)
* protein
* alcohol

Since the USDA guidelines were first introduced, we have been consistently and steadily increasing the amount of fat in our diet. And the amount of sugars and starches. And the amount of protein. And alcohol.

Essentially we increased consumption of every macro except soluble and insoluble fibre, and the side story is that we increased the consumption of calories without a corresponding increase in activity and have gradually become more obese. 2,700Cal/day in 1961 vs almost 3,800Cal/day today. An extra 1,100Cal/day vs 1961. That's it, that's where the obesity is coming from metabolically, it's an Ockham's Razor situation and I'm baffled when I watch people who should know better go down the rabbit hole of carbs vs fats.

For example, fats and oils intake in 1970 was about 300Cal/day. Today it's almost 600Cal/day. We are consuming twice as much fats and oils per day as 50 years ago. About the same amount of red meat, and increased our grains from 500Cal/day to about 580Cal/day. An increase in sugars of about 200Cal/day as well in the form of sweetened beverages, which includes fruit juices.



So, what's my assessment of the underlying cause for this increase?

The expression I keep returning to is 'obesogenic environment'

This is the environment that our genes are responding to.

Genes do not in and of themselves explain an increase in obesity. We have the same genetic population as our thinner parents, grandparents, and so on.

Willpower also seems an unlikely candidate. It's hard to take seriously that our grandparents had more diet willpower than we do.



What changed was the environment.



And it's not just one factor in the environment. Previous posters have brought up several, but treated them as 'the' cause, rather than part of a cluster of compounding contributors. And as a result, there's no single solution. But there are plausible solutions.

And here's the second problem: these solutions are Bad For Business, so there is an expensive and relentless misinformation campaign to direct attention away from them by blaming the population for having poor willpower or sedentary lifestyles and hoping the moral narrative will keep people's wheels turning.

Food is today's version of tobacco, and it's not a coincidence. Their PR people didn't retire, they changed employers. And they learned their lessons, they're better than ever.

Here's what changed:
  • food product development is more scientific every year. there's a semantic argument about the word 'addictive' but the point is that they shape food properties to increase consumption
  • advertising and marketing has become more prevalent. we just have more media now. more screen time.
  • advertising and marketing have become more advanced, stimulating demand. Just as an example, I am predicting right now that in a few weeks at the latest, we should be expecting fast food coupons to be in our mailslots. This is because people try to change habits at certain times of the year. Coupons in January, so we break our diets, and coupons in September so we turn to junk food as a convenience when the chaos of school and work resume even though we said it'll be different this year.
  • advertising and marketing have become multifaceted. this is where the studies about laziness come in. sponsorships of physical activity organizations, funding of think tanks that spit out on-demand studies that show we're too sedintary. the sugar marketers fund research about how toxic HFCS is, the HFCS people fund research about how bad fats are, the dairy people fund research about how broccoli will suck calcium out of your body, the beef people fund research about how soy will make you sterile. Red wine, dark chocolate, manuka honey. Consumers mostly learn about nutrition from product labels and press releases about garbage studies that will never be independently replicated.
  • affordability. there's no contradiction between saying on the one hand that a global increase in food production and distribution and access has translated into a very straightforward increase in obesity, while at the same time saying there's a weaker within-group correlation between poverty and obesity. The former has a very obvious explanation - the globe is making more calories faster than it's making more people - while there are competing theories for the latter.



So I advocate a few things.
  • regulation: no advertising directed at children (it's currently industry self-regulated and blatantly ignored)
  • regulation: not sure how we can do this, but cut off the industry's connection with bogus studies. this is the same problem skeptics face with the dietary supplement industry: the two-pronged attack where they circumvent claims restrictions by publishing a paper and funding a press release with bogus claims they could not legally put in advertising
  • regulation: empty calorie taxes. soft drinks would be the main target, possibly the only target
  • possibly education (?) I've become somewhat cynical about what to hope for from education.
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Old 25th August 2020, 07:23 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I dated an anorexic with a BMI in the “obese” range. She was hospitalized a few times for malnutrition. She’d been at it for years yet was still overweight.
Having worked in an eating disorder clinic, and being married to a psychiatrist who works with eating disorder patients, I find this very, very hard to believe.

Are you confusing it with bulimia? Refusing to eat, purging, malnutrition, range of BMIs. Bulimics consume plenty of calories.

At least in the sense of it being a continuous condition. If you're saying she was on again off again then sure. Malnutrition in the acute periods. But one of the characteristics of coninuouos anorexia is weight loss. This is why there were no surprise obese people in concentration camps. Calorie restriction leads to weight loss.
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Old 25th August 2020, 07:35 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's an interesting question, but I don't know how you study it. You could only ever do observational studies, you could never do a controlled study because that would never get past an Institutional Review Board. And I don't know if you could separate out fat shaming from other factors in a purely observational study.
It's studied indirectly and almost always with children.

Usually the approach is to weigh kids daily in class in front of their peers and maintain a chart in a prominently visible location.
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Old 25th August 2020, 08:25 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Does being bottle fed increase the craving for high carb, processed foods and sugary drinks later in life, and what is the mechanism?


Does a decline in breast feeding actually track with the rise in obesit over the last 50 years?
I'd be interested to pursue that line of study as well.

In particular, a good way to control for an obvious confounding factor that formula, bottle, breast feeding may actually just tell us more about the family environment than about the baby's physiological development. Without a random assignment, we're just looking at families that self selected a way to feed their newborn, there's probably a lot of economic or parental workload factors going into that, which directly correlate with meal planning throughout the child's upbringing, not just the infant years.
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