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Tags Capitol riot , donald trump , protest incidents , Trump controversies , Washington DC incidents

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Old 27th April 2021, 11:38 AM   #1
sackett
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Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol - part 2

There are proposals for a Covid Commission, modeled on the 9/11 Commission, and does anyone doubt that it would be a good idea?

Is there yet, or will there be, a January 6 Commission? Again, does anyone doubt that it would be a good, a very good idea?

And not directed by Henry Kissmyass.

Mod InfoContinued from here.

You can quote or reply to posts from that part of the thread here, but do not continue any of the bickering or off-topic derails.
Posted By:zooterkin
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Old 27th April 2021, 11:47 AM   #2
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Liz Cheney thinks January 6 should be 'disqualifying' for some GOPers

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/27/polit...iot/index.html
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Old 27th April 2021, 12:13 PM   #3
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Mod WarningPlease return to the topic under discussion, rather than splitting the atom or hairs. Thank you.
Responding to this mod box in thread will be off topic Posted By:zooterkin
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Old 27th April 2021, 12:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Just a friendly reminder that caveman1917 was the one who made a claim:



Are they now saying that they made this claim without knowing whether it was true or not?

Question - exactly how many (a number please) of these people have only been charged with entering or remaining on capitol grounds?

The answer to this question will be a number between 0 and 400.
Minor correction: The range is currently 0 to 441

The answer to your question is seven, they are

Michael Daughtrey (GA)
Rachael Genco (PA)
Jeffrey Grace (WA)
William Pepe (NY)
Mark Simon (CA)
Paul Spigelmeyer (PA)
Zachary Wilson (no state given)

That's it at this time 7 out of 441.... "almost all of them" if you listen to caveman1917
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Old 27th April 2021, 05:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Minor correction: The range is currently 0 to 441

The answer to your question is seven, they are

Michael Daughtrey (GA)
Rachael Genco (PA)
Jeffrey Grace (WA)
William Pepe (NY)
Mark Simon (CA)
Paul Spigelmeyer (PA)
Zachary Wilson (no state given)

That's it at this time 7 out of 441.... "almost all of them" if you listen to caveman1917
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.


It's just sad really, and that's not even mentioning that those new charges are just variations of the old one - as if adding "Demonstrating and picketing in the Capitol" changes much over "Entering or remaining on restricted grounds." Seriously, like what are you expecting here? That I'd agree that, while it's not justified to shoot people for "entering or remaining on restricted grounds", it is justified to shoot people for "demonstrating or picketing in the Capitol"?

Last edited by zooterkin; 30th April 2021 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 27th April 2021, 06:17 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.


It's just sad really, and that's not even mentioning that those new charges are just variations of the old one - as if adding "Demonstrating and picketing in the Capitol" changes much over "Entering or remaining on restricted grounds." Seriously, like what are you expecting here? That I'd agree that, while it's not justified to shoot people for "entering or remaining on restricted grounds", it is justified to shoot people for "demonstrating or picketing in the Capitol"?
What is really sad is that EVERYONE ELSE understood exactly what I meant, including people whose first language is not English, and you are the sole person who interpreted it your unique way, and yet you STILL won't accept that you were wrong. Your ability to double down on wrong is breathtaking.

I could not let your continued lying go unchallenged, but this is the last post I will make on this subject as we have been instructed by the Mods to stop.

ETA: It wasn't a continued discussion from AAH. Carlitos asked a valid question and I gave him/her a valid answer
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Old 28th April 2021, 12:33 AM   #7
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Some posters here have attempted to muddy the waters so much, that there needs to be clarification as to just how serious the charges against these insurrectionists are.

This is the numbers of serious offence charges offences related to the January 6 Insurrection at the Capitol. And to make this absolutely clear, so that there can be no "misunderstanding" the meaning of what I am posting, some people have been charged with more that one of these serious offences.

Assault against Enforcement officers 29
Assault against Enforcement officers with a Dangerous weapon 20
Engaging in Physical Violence 92
Possession of Dangerous Weapons 118
Violent Entry 146
Obstructing an official proceeding 162
Conspiracy to commit the charges against them 30
Tampering with Official Documents 12
Theft of Government Property 19
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Old 28th April 2021, 06:01 AM   #8
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So you're saying that around half of them being charged with a violent crime is a lot like "almost all" of them not being charged with a violent crime. Pretty sneaky.
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Old 28th April 2021, 06:11 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
ETA: It wasn't a continued discussion from AAH. Carlitos asked a valid question and I gave him/her a valid answer
Carlitos' post you quoted IS in AAH.
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Old 28th April 2021, 06:57 AM   #10
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Can't remember seeing this (although the previous thread kind of got out of control for a while)....

From: Politico
A federal judge is demanding that a Pennsylvania woman arrested for her alleged role in the Capitol riot, Rachel Powell, explain why a video of her circulating online shows her wearing a porous, mesh mask despite another judge’s order to comply with Covid mask requirements while she awaits trial.
...
Powell was known in her community as a vehement anti-masker before her participation in the Jan. 6 events. A February New Yorker article chronicled her long history of flouting mask requirements, even once boasting on Facebook that she’s “unashamedly a ‘super spreader.’”


Kind of checks all the boxes for being a moron, doesn't she.... completely reprehensible human being.
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Old 28th April 2021, 07:00 AM   #11
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I love (massive sarcasm) how much stuff the Right is doing that every alt-right troll on this board would have screamed "Oh that's such a strawman!" at if we had used it even as a joking hypothetical even a year or so ago.

"Literally on the side of the deadly pandemic."
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Old 28th April 2021, 08:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I love (massive sarcasm) how much stuff the Right is doing that every alt-right troll on this board would have screamed "Oh that's such a strawman!" at if we had used it even as a joking hypothetical even a year or so ago.

"Literally on the side of the deadly pandemic."
I feel for the writers at The Onion. Their best bit is republishing old stories about is not dealing with the same issue every time it comes up. Truly original content is just too hard in this environment.
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Old 28th April 2021, 09:34 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Some posters here have attempted to muddy the waters so much, that there needs to be clarification as to just how serious the charges against these insurrectionists are.

This is the numbers of serious offence charges offences related to the January 6 Insurrection at the Capitol. And to make this absolutely clear, so that there can be no "misunderstanding" the meaning of what I am posting, some people have been charged with more that one of these serious offences.

Assault against Enforcement officers 29
Assault against Enforcement officers with a Dangerous weapon 20
Engaging in Physical Violence 92
Possession of Dangerous Weapons 118
Violent Entry 146
Obstructing an official proceeding 162
Conspiracy to commit the charges against them 30
Tampering with Official Documents 12
Theft of Government Property 19
I'm surprised that every single one of them hasn't been charged with obstructing an official proceeding in addition to other charges. That was in fact the rioters' stated intention: to stop Congress from confirming the presidential election. And it appears to be a felony, punishable by five years in prison.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505
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Old 28th April 2021, 10:28 AM   #14
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I think it's because Prosecutors are trying to keep this as apolitical as possible - after all, certifying an election the GOP lost is the same as partisan trickery.
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Old 28th April 2021, 10:42 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I think it's because Prosecutors are trying to keep this as apolitical as possible - after all, certifying an election the GOP lost is the same as partisan trickery.
Yeah and that's exactly what the Right is counting on.

They've made "reality" a partisan issue, so they can scream "But you're just being partisan!" whenever anyone tries to enforce "reality" as a concept.

For proof see every political discussion on this board for the last few years.
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Old 28th April 2021, 12:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Carlitos' post you quoted IS in AAH.
I quoted it before it went there, so it wasn't there at the time I posted (otherwise, I would not have been able to quote it as there is no quote function in AAH)
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Old 28th April 2021, 01:54 PM   #17
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Brendan Hunt found guilty. Not a participant in the riots, he was on trial for threatening remarks related to the riots.

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Old 28th April 2021, 03:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Brendan Hunt found guilty. Not a participant in the riots, he was on trial for threatening remarks related to the riots.
I think this makes a lot of the Magrats very nervous.
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Old 28th April 2021, 04:09 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think this makes a lot of the Magrats very nervous.
It should. There has to be consequences for putting people's lives in danger so casually.
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Old 28th April 2021, 05:51 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Brendan Hunt found guilty. Not a participant in the riots, he was on trial for threatening remarks related to the riots.
I'm very surprised that the trial could have been completed so quickly. He wasn't arrested until Jan. 19. So from arrest to conviction in federal court in just over three months. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen often.
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Old 28th April 2021, 08:56 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I'm very surprised that the trial could have been completed so quickly. He wasn't arrested until Jan. 19. So from arrest to conviction in federal court in just over three months. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen often.

I looked in to how federal courts worked when the forum was discussing jurisdiction in these trials. Looks like Federal courts are faster than I would expect. Here are some links I came across.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fc-pt.pdf Pretty dated, but I still wouldn't have expected this in the 1980s.
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Old 28th April 2021, 09:39 PM   #22
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Just because...

GOP rep hid on toilet and clutched sword during Capitol riot, then voted 'no' on impeachment

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Old 28th April 2021, 10:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
That sounded to me like an Onion headline, but of course satire has become impossible with politics nowadays.

"Crouched on a toilet clutching a sword." Wow, if that doesn't sum up the GOP in a nutshell.
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Old 28th April 2021, 11:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
That sounded to me like an Onion headline, but of course satire has become impossible with politics nowadays.

"Crouched on a toilet clutching a sword." Wow, if that doesn't sum up the GOP in a nutshell.

A Civil War era sward, no less
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Old 28th April 2021, 11:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
A Civil War era sward, no less
I had wondered about that, but it makes sense that that would be the type of sword that would be available in that place. Wonder if he smashed a display case to get at it?
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Old 29th April 2021, 05:08 AM   #26
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Lol imagine pissing away your life to be a modern day fascist.

Quote:
On the face of things, life seemed to be treating Matthew Greene pretty well. His digital media and graphics company, Happy Mushroom, was taking off—and had even landed a contract to do art for Disney’s Star Wars series, “The Mandalorian.” Local news reports said he was likely making at least six figures.

But somewhere along the line, Greene thought it’d be a good idea to join the Proud Boys, acquire a bunch of guns and tactical gear, and then—allegedly—storm the U.S. Capitol.

Now Greene, 33, finds himself up against an eye-popping list of federal charges, including conspiracy to storm the U.S. Capitol alongside fellow New York Proud Boys Dominic Pezzola, aka “Spazzo,” of Rochester, and William Pepe, leader of the Hudson Valley Proud Boys.

...


Over the weekend, he was fired from his role as chief technology officer at the company.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/k78a...king-proud-boy

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Old 29th April 2021, 07:33 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I had wondered about that, but it makes sense that that would be the type of sword that would be available in that place. Wonder if he smashed a display case to get at it?

The more interesting fact about that story is that the guy, a Repub congressman, was with Majority Leader McCarthy in his office, and when it all hit the fan McCarthy evacuated and abandoned this guy alone. Says an awful lot about McCarthy's character.
Quote:
After the House chamber was evacuated on Jan. 6, Mr. McCarthy retreated to his Capitol office with a colleague, Representative Bruce Westerman, Republican of Arkansas. When it became evident the rioters were breaking in, Mr. McCarthy’s security detail insisted he leave. But Mr. Westerman was left behind in Mr. McCarthy’s inner work area, he said in a recent interview.

For protection, Mr. Westerman said he commandeered a Civil War sword from an office display, barricaded himself in Mr. McCarthy’s private bathroom and waited out the siege while crouched on the toilet.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/u...thy-trump.html

Last edited by Bob001; 29th April 2021 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 29th April 2021, 07:39 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
I looked in to how federal courts worked when the forum was discussing jurisdiction in these trials. Looks like Federal courts are faster than I would expect. Here are some links I came across.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fc-pt.pdf Pretty dated, but I still wouldn't have expected this in the 1980s.
I'm sure that's all true, but there are usually mechanisms for both sides to request a continuance. The prosecution here had plenty on its plate, and the defense sure would have wanted to put off a trial as long as possible.
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Old 29th April 2021, 07:47 AM   #29
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I'm sure that's all true, but there are usually mechanisms for both sides to request a continuance. The prosecution here had plenty on its plate, and the defense sure would have wanted to put off a trial as long as possible.
OK. Have you looked in to this? You are telling me the same things I thought before I looked in to it and seem to have found out my initial thoughts were wrong.
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Old 29th April 2021, 08:45 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Lol imagine pissing away your life to be a modern day fascist.

Quote:
Over the weekend, he was fired from his role as chief technology officer at the company.
Cancelled then?

Quote:
Now Greene, 33, finds himself up against an eye-popping list of federal charges,
Eye-popping list alright

Conspiracy;
Obstruction of an official proceeding and aiding abetting;
Obstruction of law enforcement during civil disorder and aiding and abetting;
Destruction of government property and aiding and abetting;
Entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds;
Disorderly conduct in a restricted building or grounds;
Disorderly conduct in a restricted building or grounds and aiding and abetting

Its the Conspiracy charge that will hurt him most. Conspiracy shows intent and advanced planning, and is usually good for and extra year or three on top of whatever sentence you get for the rest.
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Old 29th April 2021, 08:50 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The more interesting fact about that story is that the guy, a Repub congressman, was with Majority Leader McCarthy in his office, and when it all hit the fan McCarthy evacuated and abandoned this guy alone. Says an awful lot about McCarthy's character.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/u...thy-trump.html
Really need to know if it was a Confederate or Union sword to get the appropriate gags going. Crouched on the toilet with a military relic sword is too good to lie un-memed
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Old 29th April 2021, 08:54 AM   #32
Thermal
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Lol imagine pissing away your life to be a modern day fascist.



https://www.vice.com/en/article/k78a...king-proud-boy

Not even actually being a fascist. Just for playing an elaborate dress up as one.
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Old 29th April 2021, 08:58 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not even actually being a fascist. Just for playing an elaborate dress up as one.
Not really interested in another "no true scotsman" argument with you about the Proud Boys, an overtly fascistic group that engages in political street violence.

This guy was a member of a known fash gang and is currently indicted for engaging in a criminal conspiracy with said fascist street gang related to the half-baked plot to violently overturn the election results. Interpret that however you like.
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Old 29th April 2021, 09:04 AM   #34
Thermal
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Not really interested in another "no true scotsman" argument with you about the Proud Boys, an overtly fascistic group that engages in political street violence.

This guy was a member of a known fash gang and is currently indicted for engaging in a criminal conspiracy with said fascist street gang related to the half-baked plot to violently overturn the election results. Interpret that however you like.
? Not arguing with you dude. I'm saying you give these losers way too much credit. This particular guy was still in the cosplay stage, not a credible threat. You can keep all the weapons you like in the closet to jerk off to at night. When the rubber hits the road, he was just another dimwit caught up in fantasy.
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Old 29th April 2021, 09:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
OK. Have you looked in to this? You are telling me the same things I thought before I looked in to it and seem to have found out my initial thoughts were wrong.

No, I don't have any specialized knowledge. I do know that most federal charges are resolved without a trial at all.

From your own link:
Quote:
Cases resulting in trials took about
twice as long to dispose of (slightly
over 7 months) as those resulting in
guilty pleas or dismissals.


Generally, the more serious the
charge the longer the case-processing
time. For all felony arrests for which
charges were filed in court, case processing time ranged from a low o[
3.2 months [or larceny and burglary to
a high of 6.2 months for homicide.
This lists numerous grounds for either side to request a delay. I would think, at a minimum, the defense would have insisted on a psychiatric exam.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3161
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Old 29th April 2021, 09:05 AM   #36
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
? Not arguing with you dude. I'm saying you give these losers way too much credit. This particular guy was still in the cosplay stage, not a credible threat. You can keep all the weapons you like in the closet to jerk off to at night. When the rubber hits the road, he was just another dimwit caught up in fantasy.
A lazy fascist is still a fascist. I wouldn't hand wave his involvement in this group as cosplay.
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Old 29th April 2021, 04:05 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Really need to know if it was a Confederate or Union sword to get the appropriate gags going. Crouched on the toilet with a military relic sword is too good to lie un-memed
Kevin McCarthy's web page has a picture of him at his desk with a sword on top. That looks like a civil war cavalry sword. I'm no expert, but it looks to me like probably a Model 1860. From what I have found, a number of those swords were made in 1859 and sent tot he south before hostilities broke out, so it would have been a common confederate sword. But it may have been used by the union army as well.
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Old 29th April 2021, 05:04 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Kevin McCarthy's web page has a picture of him at his desk with a sword on top. That looks like a civil war cavalry sword. I'm no expert, but it looks to me like probably a Model 1860. From what I have found, a number of those swords were made in 1859 and sent tot he south before hostilities broke out, so it would have been a common confederate sword. But it may have been used by the union army as well.
It's an M1860. You can tell by the quillon placement and the grip shape having a mid bulge, and a few other details.

But even if it was the M1840 both were used by both America and the Confederate States during the Civil War.
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Old 30th April 2021, 08:05 AM   #39
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Brendan Hunt found guilty of threatening to assault or murder members of Congress.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/28/polit...ess/index.html
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Old 30th April 2021, 08:19 AM   #40
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Turns out LARPing has consequences.
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