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Tags Capitol riot , donald trump , protest incidents , Trump controversies , Washington DC incidents

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Old 27th September 2021, 05:48 AM   #1121
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I just wonder at what point someone like this does not get declared insane. There is a severe disconnection from reality at play here.
It's always a tricky needle to thread when it comes to defendants demanding their rights to conduct their own criminal defense.

Bauer reportedly has a court-appointed lawyer who is without a doubt advising her not to do any of these things she is currently doing.

It does seem like a tricky situation regarding a conflict between her right to run her own defense and the general right to have effective counsel. She has effective counsel available, but she refuses to use it.
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Old 27th September 2021, 04:35 PM   #1122
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
OK. What does it take to be sent to a psych hospital for an assessment then?
It's really rare but a judge can remand someone to a mental hospital if he/she finds them not competent to stand trial. In that case there's no plea involved. Theoretically, the person comes back to stand trial when they're all better. In practice, I suspect that almost never happens since you have to be pretty far gone to be not competent to stand trial.
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Old 27th September 2021, 04:43 PM   #1123
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's really rare but a judge can remand someone to a mental hospital if he/she finds them not competent to stand trial. In that case there's no plea involved. Theoretically, the person comes back to stand trial when they're all better. In practice, I suspect that almost never happens since you have to be pretty far gone to be not competent to stand trial.
Do people who believe sovcit nonsense count as insane? It's one part quack legal theory, another part aspirational ideology about a radical interpretation of freedom.

I doubt Bauer would qualify as mentally insane.
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Old 27th September 2021, 04:43 PM   #1124
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's really rare but a judge can remand someone to a mental hospital if he/she finds them not competent to stand trial. In that case there's no plea involved. Theoretically, the person comes back to stand trial when they're all better. In practice, I suspect that almost never happens since you have to be pretty far gone to be not competent to stand trial.
Pretty much my understanding of the process here in Canada. I was just wondering how far one has to be "out of it" before the judge decides to order an assessment. I know it does happen and the results can lead to being hospitalized until the defendant is determined to be restored to the degree of sanity required to be tried.
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Old 27th September 2021, 05:00 PM   #1125
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Pretty much my understanding of the process here in Canada. I was just wondering how far one has to be "out of it" before the judge decides to order an assessment. I know it does happen and the results can lead to being hospitalized until the defendant is determined to be restored to the degree of sanity required to be tried.
You would have to be at a point where you could not be reasonably expected to understand the meaning of a plea, that you're on trial and incapable of participating in your defense. The only case I have personal knowledge of was an assault charge where the person had advanced dementia, didn't know they were at a border crossing and punched an officer.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:18 PM   #1126
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You would have to be at a point where you could not be reasonably expected to understand the meaning of a plea, that you're on trial and incapable of participating in your defense. The only case I have personal knowledge of was an assault charge where the person had advanced dementia, didn't know they were at a border crossing and punched an officer.
With that said, in immigration courts even those conditions may not even hold. For example, when toddlers or a 1-year old baby are up.
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Old 29th September 2021, 02:45 AM   #1127
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
With that said, in immigration courts even those conditions may not even hold. For example, when toddlers or a 1-year old baby are up.
This one was a criminal trial. As I recall, the judge was not best pleased with the Service on that one. (Slight derail: I really didn't get that one since there is a section of The Act that covers foundlings and as I recall, it did not involve putting them in proceedings).

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Old 5th October 2021, 07:20 AM   #1128
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Looks like there is at least one judge who was... disappointed... in lenient plea deals offered to some of the January 6 terrorist...

From: WUSA (local television station)
A federal judge sentenced a Texas man to 45 days in jail Monday for his role in the Capitol riot – going above the Justice Department’s request that he serve only home confinement....Judge Tanya S. Chutkan said “there have to be consequences” for Capitol riot defendants like Matthew Mazzocco, who pleaded guilty in July to one misdemeanor charge....“This court believes that a sentence of probation does not reflect the seriousness of the crime… if Mr. Mazzocco walks away with probation and a slap on the wrist, that’s not going to deter anyone from trying to do what he did,” Chutkan said. “Nor do I agree with the government that confining him to his home, where he can be with his family, is appropriate.”
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Old 5th October 2021, 07:46 AM   #1129
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Nice to see at least one judge understand that a failed coup without consequences is just a training exercise.
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Old 6th October 2021, 12:07 PM   #1130
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And the award for "Biggest crocodile tears" goes to...

Dona Bissey (Yahoo News)
...Dona Bissey, 53, from Bloomfield, Indiana, wrote a letter to the court pleading for leniency...A. J. Kramer, a federal public defender, said the events of the insurrection had left Bissey with "deep regret, fear, shame, and remorse."..."Ms. Bissey has been chastised on the street and her business shunned."..."She lives in fear, knowing that every trip to the grocery store could result in someone angrily hurling insults or threats at her...." Kramer added. The lawyer also said that Bissey should not be incarcerated...because of multiple health issues, adding that she feared she would contract COVID-19. Bissey has not been vaccinated...Bissey described herself as a "God-fearing, country-loving, law-abiding, hard-working Patriot"

Of course, before she was arrested, she had this to say:

...Bissey wrote on Facebook: "We are Home ... It was a day I'll remember forever. I'm proud that I was a part of it!"

Assuming the reports of her being "shunned" are correct... (I suspect she could be lying about that... after all, Indiana isn't exactly "Liberal" country, and its possible that she is getting more support than condemnation)... I hope they ignore what is obviously a ploy. She's not remorseful for what she did... she's remorseful for being caught and held accountable.
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Old 6th October 2021, 12:20 PM   #1131
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LOL. I can't go to jail, because I'm afraid I'll get COVID-19. Also, I'm not getting the vaccine that is free at every drugstore in my state.
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Old 6th October 2021, 01:09 PM   #1132
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
LOL. I can't go to jail, because I'm afraid I'll get COVID-19. Also, I'm not getting the vaccine that is free at every drugstore in my state.
As my old buddy Beretta used to say; "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".
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Old 6th October 2021, 02:26 PM   #1133
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
As my old buddy Beretta used to say; "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

"If you won't get the vaccine, stay out of the crime scene."

Hmm. Doesn't really have the same ring to it.
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Old 7th October 2021, 12:52 AM   #1134
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Bissey described herself as a "God-fearing, country-loving, law-abiding, hard-working Patriot"
And yet.....

I hope she gets to do time. Maybe that will re-align how she sees herself.
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Old 7th October 2021, 01:09 AM   #1135
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aren't inmates automatically vaccinated ?
should be a no-brainer.
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Old 7th October 2021, 09:15 AM   #1136
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Re: Jan6 terrorist Dona Bissey...
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
I hope she gets to do time. Maybe that will re-align how she sees herself.
I would hope she would too. She certainly deserves it.

But, although she was part of the group that invaded the capitol (and has no real remorse), I don't think she had committed any violence or vandalism when there, and prosecutors seem to be going pretty easy on defendants like that. (And one of the people she was with got off with a fine and probation.)

See: Tribune-Star
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:01 PM   #1137
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
"If you won't get the vaccine, stay out of the crime scene."

Hmm. Doesn't really have the same ring to it.
If you don't want the disease, get the vaccines.
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Old 8th October 2021, 06:04 PM   #1138
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Don't get the jab and you'll end up on the slab,

don't do it....
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Old 8th October 2021, 07:34 PM   #1139
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Re: Jan6 terrorist Dona Bissey...

I would hope she would too. She certainly deserves it.

But, although she was part of the group that invaded the capitol (and has no real remorse), I don't think she had committed any violence or vandalism when there, and prosecutors seem to be going pretty easy on defendants like that. (And one of the people she was with got off with a fine and probation.)
....
You don't have to throw away the key. Even a 10-day jail sentence would have an impact on the defendant and others that probation and a fine never could.
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Old 9th October 2021, 07:14 AM   #1140
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I agree, a short but meaningful jail sentence would be a good first step, but I also think that a felony conviction and its consequences should accompany it. There's a lot of "them and us" in the thinking of many, and I think they need a firm reminder that they have voluntarily stepped into the world of "them."
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Old 10th October 2021, 08:43 AM   #1141
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I agree, a short but meaningful jail sentence would be a good first step, but I also think that a felony conviction and its consequences should accompany it. There's a lot of "them and us" in the thinking of many, and I think they need a firm reminder that they have voluntarily stepped into the world of "them."
It doesn't work. The "them" and "us" in that mindset are not separated by behavior but by a designated nature or role (that they self-select). A "good person" by their definition getting caught committing a crime and getting punished isn't proof that they're not so good, it's proof of how much of a wrong turn society has taken. Criminal punishment is for "bad guys", not for themselves.
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Old 10th October 2021, 12:53 PM   #1142
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
It doesn't work. The "them" and "us" in that mindset are not separated by behavior but by a designated nature or role (that they self-select). A "good person" by their definition getting caught committing a crime and getting punished isn't proof that they're not so good, it's proof of how much of a wrong turn society has taken. Criminal punishment is for "bad guys", not for themselves.
I realize that this is largely the case, but I think if they find themselves having to face the social and political consequences of actual felonious conviction, a little bit of the issue might, eventually, soak in. Nah. You're probably right. Pessimism is the better choice. We're ******.
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Old 10th October 2021, 05:20 PM   #1143
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House Capitol attack panel ready to urge prosecution of Trump aides, says Schiff

Mark Meadows, Dan Scavino, Steve Bannon and Kash Patel all defying subpoenas under instruction from Trump
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Old 11th October 2021, 04:14 PM   #1144
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I realize that this is largely the case, but I think if they find themselves having to face the social and political consequences of actual felonious conviction, a little bit of the issue might, eventually, soak in. Nah. You're probably right. Pessimism is the better choice. We're ******.
For me it's more of who to address--there is the urge to rail against the stupidity of the intractable, and yes we can multitask, but the real work is getting effective messaging to people that aren't all the way there yet. And pointing out how horrible the stupid people are isn't the way to do it.

As well, some people seem to have a knack. I think about the guy that famously got at least 200 Klan members to renounce their views and symbolically give over their robes to him, just by personal engagement.
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Old 11th October 2021, 06:03 PM   #1145
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
For me it's more of who to address--there is the urge to rail against the stupidity of the intractable, and yes we can multitask, but the real work is getting effective messaging to people that aren't all the way there yet. And pointing out how horrible the stupid people are isn't the way to do it.

As well, some people seem to have a knack. I think about the guy that famously got at least 200 Klan members to renounce their views and symbolically give over their robes to him, just by personal engagement.
There's a wee bit of irony here, of course, since what you're saying (probably rightly) is that the group of people probably most vehemently in favor of "deterrent" punishment for those other folks (you know, them) are not likely to be deterred by the punishment of folks like themselves when they go too far. It's different!
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Old 12th October 2021, 01:59 PM   #1146
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
For me it's more of who to address--there is the urge to rail against the stupidity of the intractable, and yes we can multitask, but the real work is getting effective messaging to people that aren't all the way there yet. And pointing out how horrible the stupid people are isn't the way to do it.

As well, some people seem to have a knack. I think about the guy that famously got at least 200 Klan members to renounce their views and symbolically give over their robes to him, just by personal engagement.
I believe that guy was African-American, wasn't he?
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Old 12th October 2021, 02:03 PM   #1147
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
You mean Trump has total contempt for the law?
Who Knew?
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Old 13th October 2021, 08:06 AM   #1148
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You mean Trump has total contempt for the law?
Who Knew?
LAW & ORDER!

No….not like that..!
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Old 15th October 2021, 07:44 AM   #1149
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Here's video footage of the event "celebrating" the life of Ashli Babbit, including a video message from Trump.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I'm just relieved to see how small the attendance is, because these people are living in a fantasy.
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Old 15th October 2021, 10:59 AM   #1150
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Capitol police officer charged with 2 counts of obstruction after coaching a Jan6 rioter to delete evidence from social media.

Quote:

A Capitol Police officer is facing two counts of obstruction of justice for allegedly trying to help someone avoid being prosecuted for the Jan. 6 riot by telling them to change Facebook posts to indicate they were not in the Capitol at the time of the riot.

The Capitol Police officer, Michael Angelo Riley, had been with the department for more than 25 years when he was indicted for allegedly helping someone, referred to as “Person 1” in court documents obtained by Law & Crime.

The court documents allege that Person 1 had accepted a friend request from the Capitol Police officer despite the fact that they did not know each other. Person 1 had posed commentary and footage that indicated Person 1 was inside the Capitol during Jan. 6.

Documents allege Riley identified himself as an officer, and said he agreed with the person's political stance.
https://thehill.com/regulation/court...-investigation

I guess even the cops think beating up the pigs is cool.
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