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Old 19th September 2021, 11:56 AM   #361
The Atheist
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Having cancer symptoms but not going to the doctor due to fears over Covid, when there hasn't been a case within 500km of you, is totally not panic.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...minous-picture
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Old 19th September 2021, 01:34 PM   #362
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moved to proper thread
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Last edited by marting; 19th September 2021 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 19th September 2021, 01:41 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
Interesting outlier multi-breakthrough case. The poor woman had Covid-19 in 2020 but was luckily asymptomatic, got fully vaccinated in 2021 after which she caught the Alpha Covid-19 variant causing "mild" illness lasting 11 days. Then later she caught the Delta variant and was hospitalized 6 weeks with severe disease.

Severe SARS-CoV-2 Breakthrough Reinfection With Delta Variant After Recovery From Breakthrough Infection by Alpha Variant in a Fully Vaccinated Health Worker

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.737007/full

These were confirmed breakthroughs with full genomic sequencing. A rather rare situation but the woman was unusually attentive and sought/requested medical details including serology verification of antibody levels. I haven't googled it yet but wouldn't be surprised if the anti-vax crowd is waving this study around.

On less of an outlier front, here's a study that indicates strong protection from re-infection for a year. Similar to early data from vaccines. Caveats are that it was before widespread circulation of Alpha and Delta.

Assessment of SARS-CoV-2 Reinfection 1 Year After Primary Infection in a Population in Lombardy, Italy

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2780557
Wrong thread. It belongs here
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=348212
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Old 19th September 2021, 02:08 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well at least when you die to defend this hill we can argue it's not statistically significant.
Just gruck me that The Atheist hates the GOP in the US, but he sounding a lot like them when it comes to COvid.
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Old 19th September 2021, 02:11 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You're right. My error.

I meant to discuss what I've seen in Southern California.

First week of March 2020 was the last time wife and i went out to a restaurant thinking it would be a while before it would be safe to do so again. Been a lot longer than I thought.

Near the end of March I drove 40 miles to a engineering place that had repaired my total station. Traffic was close to non-existent. The shop (considered an essential biz) had put up plexiglass barriers at the front and had the doors open. No masks then since they had been discouraged at the time. Within 2 months traffic was back to near normal though people were wearing masks everywhere except driving. A few did but very few.

Since this May, most everything is open. Probably about 20% of people wearing masks and many clerks in stores aren't wearing masks. This in spite of the fact deaths went from under 10k in March 2020 to 500k. So I suspect covid panic is a function of time. It subsides as people get used to things once the bugger has been around a while. Even if it's killed lots of people. It hasn't affected my life much since I'm retired and I adjust optional activities based on assessing risk. I find the science and statistics fascinating.
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Old 20th September 2021, 01:11 PM   #366
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COVID has officially equaled the Death Toll of the 1918 Spanish Flue pandemic as far as deaths in America.

"Panicking" my achin' ass.
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Old 20th September 2021, 04:19 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
COVID has officially equaled the Death Toll of the 1918 Spanish Flue pandemic as far as deaths in America.
Damn, you should have employed more chimney sweeps.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Panicking" my achin' ass.
The vast majority of which occurred prior to widespread vaccination.
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Old 20th September 2021, 05:20 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
COVID has officially equaled the Death Toll of the 1918 Spanish Flue pandemic as far as deaths in America.

"Panicking" my achin' ass.
Per capita the 1918-19 flu was 3x more deadly. A part is Covid-19 occurred at a time of much better medical care not to mention vaccines which have reduced many recent deaths and will significantly reduce future deaths. Absent modern medicine and vaccines, Covid-19 could well have exceeded that flu on a per-capita basis. Count us lucky to be around now.

But another factor is that that flu was far more deadly to younger people and thus had a far higher impact on society than Covid-19. Deaths are deaths but the impact on younger people was much more devastating than Covid-19 where most of the deaths were over 65 y/o.

Frankly, the headlines everywhere about Covid-19 deaths eclipsing the 2018-19 flu as if there is some real comparison is misleading as hell.

Not to discount Covid-19 but comparing it to what the country suffered in the 1918-19 flu is apples and grapefruits.
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Old 20th September 2021, 09:55 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
Per capita the 1918-19 flu was 3x more deadly. A part is Covid-19 occurred at a time of much better medical care not to mention vaccines which have reduced many recent deaths and will significantly reduce future deaths. Absent modern medicine and vaccines, Covid-19 could well have exceeded that flu on a per-capita basis. Count us lucky to be around now.
It also should not be forgotten that more than half of the people who died in the 1918-1919 Flu Pandemic did not die from the flu virus itself. They did so from secondary infection by bacterial Pneumonia. This particular secondary infection was not just a bacterial attack on people in an overall weakened state. The virus destroyed the cells that line the bronchial tubes and lungs, and the bacteria that normally reside in the nose and throat were able to invade the lungs along a pathway created by that viral destruction. There was no such thing as anti-biotics back then, so no way to effectively treat them.
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Old 20th September 2021, 10:36 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
It also should not be forgotten that more than half of the people who died in the 1918-1919 Flu Pandemic did not die from the flu virus itself. They did so from secondary infection by bacterial Pneumonia. This particular secondary infection was not just a bacterial attack on people in an overall weakened state. The virus destroyed the cells that line the bronchial tubes and lungs, and the bacteria that normally reside in the nose and throat were able to invade the lungs along a pathway created by that viral destruction.
Good point. Absolutely right. My father's mother died at 40 y/o from bacterial pneumonia just a few years before penicillin was discovered.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:11 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
Frankly, the headlines everywhere about Covid-19 deaths eclipsing the 2018-19[sic] flu as if there is some real comparison is misleading as hell.

Not to discount Covid-19 but comparing it to what the country suffered in the 1918-19 flu is apples and grapefruits.
Yes, it is a bit misleading, but not for the reason you think. Comparing current Covid deaths to the 1918-19 flu is misleading because this pandemic isn't over yet.

There were four successive waves of the 'Spanish' flu, covering the period from 1918 to 1920. It was over relatively quickly due to the high infection rate and lack of vaccines, at greater cost in lives. But we are only just getting into the fourth wave of Covid, with no guarantee that it will be the last. We can't get a final death tally until it's over - which could be a year or more from now.

The Delta variant was initially met with skepticism by many, but proved to be much more virulent and have a more deadly effect on young people. Many countries who thought they had been through the worst got unexpectedly hammered by Delta because their containment strategies (that seemed to work before) were not good enough. Some early vaccinations are not as effective on Delta so we are getting 'breakthrough' cases, which may increase as immunities wane. But that is not the worst scenario by far. At least one other variant has surfaced, and the longer Covid circulates the more likely an even more virulent variant will pop up.

The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Until she does we shouldn't be comparing deaths and declaring Coivd-19 a 'nothing-burger' compared to the 1918-19 flu.

Frankly, there is nothing wrong with headlines talking about Covid-19 deaths eclipsing the 2018-19 flu, or even other events with major fatalities. "apples and grapefruits" you say, but that's not the point. What is important is that we have something causing deaths on a similar scale to another notable event, which does make it a big deal even if the scenarios are not exactly equivalent.

What would be 'misleading as hell' is headlines asserting that the risk is low, that taking 'extreme' measures would hurt the economy more than it helped, that people are dying of the flu all the time so why treat it any different, that it only kills old people so don't worry, that we can beat it with with less pain by just protecting old people and letting everyone else get it, or that it will all go away as soon as the election is over - you know, stuff we were being told that was misleading as hell.

But if you acknowledge all that and are just worried about people overreacting then don't - the majority are still not taking this virus seriously!
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Old 21st September 2021, 01:12 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The Delta variant was initially met with skepticism by many, but proved to be much more virulent and have a more deadly effect on young people. Many countries who thought they had been through the worst got unexpectedly hammered by Delta because their containment strategies (that seemed to work before) were not good enough.
Which is why our government, thankfully, put the country into lockdown within a day of the first Delta detection, and yet, even with what they saw happening in other countries, they were still unable to stop it reaching peak daily cases similar to that of the first outbreak

First Outbreak
First Case................28 Feb 2020
Level 4 lockdown......25 March 2020 (25 days later)
Peak daily cases.......84

Delta Outbreak
First Case................17 August 2021
Level 4 Lockdown......18 August 2021 (<1 day later)
Peak daily cases......81

All the stochastic branching process and contagion network modelling of the Delta variant being carried out by their science and medical advisors told them that if they tried to use the same strategy as the first outbreak, taking 25 days to work their way through the Alert Levels 1 through 4 before lockdown, by that time (September 12) would would be reaching rates in the region of 500 to 800 new cases daily, and climbing to a peak of over 1500 daily before falling.

Adopting the strategy that some people advocate (just let it run wind) would have been an unmitigated disaster. The government copped some stinging media criticism back in August, from home and abroad, for "overreacting" by putting the country into Lockdown at midnight on the evening of the first detected case. That decision has now been thoroughly vindicated, and today the case rates are falling.
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Old 21st September 2021, 01:47 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Until she does we shouldn't be comparing deaths and declaring Coivd-19 a 'nothing-burger' compared to the 1918-19 flu.
....and we've applied a range of tools that simply weren't available over 100 years ago including vaccination, the various treatments and even intubation and ventilation. Without all of these things, Covid deaths would be much, much higher.

Suggesting that Covid is a nothingburger is as misleading as suggesting that the Y2k computer "problem" was also a nothingburger because planes didn't simply fall out of the sky and the power grid didn't completely fail - ignoring the hundreds of millions of hours diligently spent making sure that these things didn't happen.
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Old 21st September 2021, 11:51 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Suggesting that Covid is a nothingburger is ...
Not happening in this thread, so excellent point!

I was thinking about people not panicking yesterday as I was leaning on our front fence talking on the phone. It's 3m from the footpath, which two young Asian women in mask were walking along. When they got to 10m away from where I was they pinched their noses through their masks and ran until they were 10m past me.

Utterly not panicking at any stage.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:05 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Not happening in this thread, so excellent point!

I was thinking about people not panicking yesterday as I was leaning on our front fence talking on the phone. It's 3m from the footpath, which two young Asian women in mask were walking along. When they got to 10m away from where I was they pinched their noses through their masks and ran until they were 10m past me.

Utterly not panicking at any stage.
Have you considered washing your feet?
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:44 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
Have you considered washing your feet?


Yeah, that was the first thing I checked, but they were upwind from me when they started running, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't that.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:55 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
Have you considered washing your feet?
The occasional shower, some oral hygiene and deodorant might help too
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Old 21st September 2021, 04:09 PM   #378
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Droplets, whatever air you've expelled, and whatever surfaces you may have touched or breathed on do not instantly vanish or become safe when you leave the vehicle.

People driving with masks:

- may be driving a shared vehicle.
- may be on the way to pick someone up.
- may not want to handle their mask repeatedly.
- may be an Uber or delivery driver.
- may have kids in the car later, or the next day.

I'd rather see that than what I see in my area, which is too many people not caring about others.

- The guy I saw through the window of a closed martial arts studio after hours cleaning with his mask around his chin.

- The woman who puts on her mask only when she sees me coming to pick up my food. A place I will not go in again because the cooks do the same thing. Kinda wear it, kinda don't.

- The manager who cussed out my co-workers friend for wearing a mask in his small store (that was in Iowa or Idaho, can't remember). He made her leave.

- My stupid roommate.

**** anyone that thinks people are being "too careful".
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Old 21st September 2021, 04:15 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Having cancer symptoms but not going to the doctor due to fears over Covid, when there hasn't been a case within 500km of you, is totally not panic.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...minous-picture

Neither is worrying you might die because hospitals are too full to accept you:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ty-ray-demonia

https://www.ketv.com/article/auburn-...aska/37467453#

https://sports.yahoo.com/oregon-man-...163626958.html

Japan too:
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna29013386
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Old 21st September 2021, 04:18 PM   #380
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Maybe my car stinks.

Or the one time I was at the jail and the inmates were smoking drug infused paper and for some reason also feces so the place smelled like burning feces. Driving home I found that sucking on a coughdrop while wearing the mask allowed me not to smell my clothes and overpowered the smell in my nose. I'm going to keep that trick in mind in any similar situations.

I'm never going to stop wearing masks in public spaces such as the grocery if I feel as much as the sniffles or think something might be going around.

Plus, I kinda like the anonymity. I'd probably wear a full on Bandit Heeler head in public if I could manage it.
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Old 21st September 2021, 05:58 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Yes, it is a bit misleading, but not for the reason you think. Comparing current Covid deaths to the 1918-19 flu is misleading because this pandemic isn't over yet.
The Delta 4th wave is declining in the USA. Cases are dropping while deaths, which are delayed a few weeks, are peaking and will start to decline in accord with cases. More rapidly in the Southern states with more unvaxed where it's been collecting them in droves. Still going up in other states more vaxxed where there are fewer easy pickings. Cases and death rates a lot lower in those states and Covid will probably hang around longer there. Probably another 100k deaths before the 4th wave peters out. I expect pockets this winter of the remaining unvaxxed with more suceptable vaxxed mixed in. Depends on rollout of boosters. Maybe another 50k to 100k in the winter then endemic with well under 100k/year for a few years. Everyone will be exposed. Those that are vaxxed (with boosters too) or previously recovered will be mostly protected.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
There were four successive waves of the 'Spanish' flu, covering the period from 1918 to 1920. It was over relatively quickly due to the high infection rate and lack of vaccines, at greater cost in lives. But we are only just getting into the fourth wave of Covid, with no guarantee that it will be the last. We can't get a final death tally until it's over - which could be a year or more from now.
We aren't "just getting started with Delta. It's been on the decline in cases for a week now.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The Delta variant was initially met with skepticism by many, but proved to be much more virulent and have a more deadly effect on young people.
Yeah. I don't understand how Delta wasn't obviously going to a big deal. This was obvious back in May when I posted that things were going to be grim in a few months because of the very high transmissibility of Delta. But yeah, it wasn't really seen as a threat back then.

Back to the present. Deaths are still concentrated in the older demos. Hospitalizations have increased a lot among the young but not deaths relative to other age groups. This is to be expected since the old are vaccinated at a much higher rate than the young. So it's going after easy pickings. Hospitalized people < 20 y/o die at 1/10th the rate of hospitalized people over 50.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Many countries who thought they had been through the worst got unexpectedly hammered by Delta because their containment strategies (that seemed to work before) were not good enough. Some early vaccinations are not as effective on Delta so we are getting 'breakthrough' cases, which may increase as immunities wane.
Yep, that's right.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
But that is not the worst scenario by far. At least one other variant has surfaced, and the longer Covid circulates the more likely an even more virulent variant will pop up.
Lots of variants have occurred since Delta. None have been able to out compete with it. And I remember looking at the week/week increase in Delta genomic prevalence unlike anything I saw before or after.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Until she does we shouldn't be comparing deaths and declaring Coivd-19 a 'nothing-burger' compared to the 1918-19 flu.
Nothingburger? Who says that. Were it not for the advances in the last Century Covid-19 would likely kill a higher percentage than the 1918 Flu. As it is it's pretty damned serious.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Frankly, there is nothing wrong with headlines talking about Covid-19 deaths eclipsing the 2018-19 flu, or even other events with major fatalities. "apples and grapefruits" you say, but that's not the point. What is important is that we have something causing deaths on a similar scale to another notable event, which does make it a big deal even if the scenarios are not exactly equivalent.
They aren't similar. But the reasons are because we aren't living in the tech. 100 years ago without vaccines or antibiotics. Because of that not near as bad.


Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
What would be 'misleading as hell' is headlines asserting that the risk is low, that taking 'extreme' measures would hurt the economy more than it helped, that people are dying of the flu all the time so why treat it any different, that it only kills old people so don't worry, that we can beat it with with less pain by just protecting old people and letting everyone else get it, or that it will all go away as soon as the election is over - you know, stuff we were being told that was misleading as hell.
Not a fan of the Great Barrington Declaration.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
But if you acknowledge all that and are just worried about people overreacting then don't - the majority are still not taking this virus seriously!
The majority got vaccinated. There are significant numbers that think it's fake or just like the flu or some weird govt. effort to create compliant sheep. Can't fix stupid.
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Old 21st September 2021, 07:49 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Neither is worrying you might die because hospitals are too full to accept you:
Interesting question as to which causes more deaths - hospitals full of Covid stopping people getting care, or the cases delayed because people are scared to go there for treatment &/or tests?

I have a suspicion the latter will be the larger group, because hospitals are only full of Covid patients for a fairly short time.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 06:20 PM   #383
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Classic example of politicians and media panicking the public:

Quote:
Even at 80 per cent coverage of over 5s, and assuming only baseline public health measures and limited test-trace-isolate-quarantine, the modelling carried a median estimate of 1.1 million infections, around 60,000 hospitalisations and nearly 7000 deaths – all within a period of just a year.
Utter baloney.

That's more deaths per year than any country of similar population, and that's while they had zero percent vaccinated.

Pure scare tactics not based on any kind of reality.
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Old 23rd September 2021, 01:51 AM   #384
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Fancy that - Rodney Jones calls the 7000 dead "utterly unconvincing".

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...usibility-test
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Old 23rd September 2021, 02:24 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
The Delta 4th wave is declining in the USA. Cases are dropping while deaths,
which are delayed a few weeks, are peaking and will start to decline in accord
with cases.

I'm seeing that as well in the data. The downward trend in new infections moves
a little bit faster than I expected. In the model I'm using the virus runs out of room
after December - in other words the number of vaccinations plus infections exceeds
the total population. Obviously the fix requires bringing in more variation in immunity
and changes in infection modality through variants.

Daily Cases

Based upon this graph, I count five waves of covid - four alphas and one delta.
The minor fourth alpha wave overlaps with the major third alpha wave but
mathematically appears as a distinct wave around March first.


Covid Projection

Interestingly, the AI models predicting the future of covid in the United States
show a new variant, probably not from the delta branch, infecting vaccinated
and unvaccinated people alike this December. I was expecting three smaller
events over the next year, but I guess they've got better information than I do.


Quote:
Not a fan of the Great Barrington Declaration.

Not a fan of it either.

Guess who was ahead of the curve on that one?

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Old 23rd September 2021, 04:48 PM   #386
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This was a weird thread to skim through a few pages of a while back. The person claiming everybody else is "panicking" was the only one pretending the vaccines don't work, while the allegedly "panicking" people were admitting they do.

But I didn't post just for that. I'm posting because of what DeSantis said while talking about his latest round of doing everything he can come up with to try to spread the virus around as much as possible and get as many people killed as possible. It was something about not letting "fear" rule us. The idea that wanting to work against a plague instead of striving to maximize it must be all about "fear" reminded me of not only this thread, but also the fact that psychologists have found that a lot of what separates the political right and left is that it's all about fear in general for righties... from practically anything, all around, all the time. That makes this appear to be a simple case of projection; when one feeling/idea so consistently dominates how one looks at everything in life, one often can't really imagine anybody else not also being just as dominated by that same feeling/idea.

It's like when religionists claim that atheists must be worshiping something/someone even if it's not God, and famous atheists with much of an audience on the subject of theism & atheism must be, if not our gods, then at least prophets to us. An outlook so fundamentally different as to just not have such things at all, instead of merely the same things pointing in a slightly different direction, is just beyond the imagination.

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Old 23rd September 2021, 06:11 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
This was a weird thread to skim through a few pages of a while back. The person claiming everybody else is "panicking" was the only one pretending the vaccines don't work, while the allegedly "panicking" people were admitting they do.
Someone said the vaccines don't work? Where was that?

I also don't recall anyone saying "everybody else is panicking".

I'm quite sure some people are, and gave some specific examples of panic-buying and other things that look very much like panic.

You're not yet another poster making **** up are you?

Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
-off topic political statement omitted-
Please answer the questions I've put and leave the proselytising elsewhere.
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Old 24th September 2021, 07:29 PM   #388
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Newsweek aspires to the US's version of the Daily Fail with a cover titled "The Doomsday Variant" Good grief.

As a close tracker of variants and having posted in May that Delta was going to be pretty bad R.1 and last week's Mu just aren't up to snuff. No indication they can hold a candle to Delta. Eric Topol is tired of the crap too.

New variants that out compete Delta may well come along. There's new ones all the time. But media should stop crying wolf all the time or fewer will respond if a more serious variant does show up.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status...29382745481219

Eric Topol:
Quote:
R.1 is the latest Scariant

Newsweek is the Scariant specialist
Now @sfchronicle is following suit.

@macroliter sets it straight
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Old 25th September 2021, 02:57 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
"The Doomsday Variant"
Nailed.
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Old 5th October 2021, 11:43 AM   #390
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For all those demonstrably panicking about children and Covid, some facts to digest.

Alongside the knowledge that children are very rarely severely impacted by Covid, they're not spreading it around each other much:

Quote:
The study found the primary spread of Covid-19 was within households, was primarily driven by unvaccinated adults, and that the actual transmission between children in education settings was very low.
And yes, that is entirely the delta variant, with information gained from the highly-detailed NSW outbreak: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...s-and-children
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Old 5th October 2021, 03:56 PM   #391
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And now we know why the James Bond movie No Time To Die got a 18 month delay because of the COvid virus (in fact it was the first major film to announce it was being put on the shelf due to Covid):

The big McGuffin in the film is a supervirus biotech weapon that uses Nano tech to spread...


It was set to open in March of 2020:talk about bad timing.
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:36 PM   #392
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Not panicking, just freaking out:

Quote:
University of Auckland epidemiologist Rod Jackson says there is "no chance" of Auckland loosening restrictions tomorrow.

"I'm freaking out in a major way."
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...S2GRLEB4YDF3I/
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Old 14th October 2021, 03:51 PM   #393
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More totally not panicking.

A person is alleged to have travelled from Waikato to Northland (~250km), where he/she attended a party, which defendants for a court case who were due to appear today also attended.

Not a positive case, not even a contact of a positive case, just some person from Waikato - current case total 31, in an area the size of Vermont, with about half the population - who was at the same location as people due to appear in court, so the court is closed in case.

Absolutely no panic in that response.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...onavirus-scare
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Old 14th October 2021, 04:18 PM   #394
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Pandemic panic panicking must stop.

That article says the court delayed opening until noon, and that

Quote:
Stuff understands there are fears someone from Waikato travelled to Dannevirke and attended a party many people due to appear in the Dannevirke District Court on Friday were at.
They "understand?" So printing a rumor. There was no official sources in that article as they all didn't comment. Just some site "understanding."

This does not support the conclusion that this person did not have a more direct connection to covid.

So stop panicking.
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Old 14th October 2021, 10:51 PM   #395
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And in a great example of people NOT panicking, but making commonsense decisions, major New Zealand commercial law firm Russell McVeagh is shutting its doors on unvaccinated clients, visitors and staff.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126...s-and-visitors

"Russell McVeagh​ says it will ban anyone entering its offices who has not had both Covid-19 vaccination jabs, from November 1.

That includes clients, staff and other visitors.

“From November 1, only those people who have received both doses of the Covid-19 vaccine will be able to come into our offices,” chief executive Jo Avenell​ said.

“If someone has not had both doses of the vaccine, we ask that they support our policy by communicating with us away from the offices."


Bloody good on them. All businesses should follow this lead.

The unvaccinated are allowed to claim their right to be selfish douchebags, we just need claim our right to be safe from them, and we can do that by making sure that if they choose to remain unvaccinated, their day to day life very will be difficult and inconvenient... no shopping, no restaurants or pubs, no sports or entertainment events, no personal access to services such as legal or financial.
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Old 15th October 2021, 03:56 PM   #396
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I mentioned in another thread that I was in a hospital waiting room two days ago and a big dum dum had no mask while talking to the receptionists for ten minutes. I'm like WTF is going on?

Finally he says, "Oh I'm not vaccinated it's a personal choice" and then is told to put his mask back up from around his chin. I was about to explode.

In a ******* hospital. These people are so full of themselves. Big dumb looking SOB, Trump supporter all the way.

And it still took that long for someone to tell him to mask up. No excuse, there is a security guard at a desk 50 feet away but out of view.

The woman at the taqueria I go to has no problem telling full grown men to wear a damn mask, which is one reason I still go there. She's awesome. The people in the hospital? Wow.

I'd like a little more panic and a lot less of these jerkoffs.
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Old 20th October 2021, 07:06 AM   #397
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Be warned, rant to follow.

Currently I am on day 3 of 10 talking to my wife through a closed door - she tested positive on Sunday. I am in UK so their guidance (ha ha) is being stuck with. We estimate the delay between contact and the positive test was 5 days.

In theory, youngest daughter and I can go around doing whatever we want. My youngest works for the NHS and they don't want her back in work until my wife's isolation is complete due to the risk from the house. She should be going to the theatre and for a meal on Saturday - this would be acceptable under guidelines. We are however keeping a low profile for the 5 days after the positive test and the theatre trip will be cancelled.

My eldest daughter lives abroad and came to the UK on Sunday to sort out details for her wedding next year and was planning to stay with us. Being responsible parents, we booked a hotel for in our town. She is relying on favours from friends in getting her and fiance to the relevant places.

This is the first time in 35 years of marriage, that I haven't been able to be with my wife when she was ill - even just sitting on the bed next to her - that hurts so much.

The reason for this rant is the attitude of the person who we are convinced is the source of the infection. My wife works at a pre-school (kindergarten) and the only other worker that has tested positive (doesn't wear a mask anymore as they "don't have too") came into work in the middle of a pandemic when she wasn't feeling well at all and had the previous two days off sick. The reason they gave for not testing herself was "we work with children, they don't get it".





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Old 20th October 2021, 07:12 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Greebo View Post
Be warned, rant to follow.

Currently I am on day 3 of 10 talking to my wife through a closed door - she tested positive on Sunday. I am in UK so their guidance (ha ha) is being stuck with. We estimate the delay between contact and the positive test was 5 days.

In theory, youngest daughter and I can go around doing whatever we want. My youngest works for the NHS and they don't want her back in work until my wife's isolation is complete due to the risk from the house. She should be going to the theatre and for a meal on Saturday - this would be acceptable under guidelines. We are however keeping a low profile for the 5 days after the positive test and the theatre trip will be cancelled.

My eldest daughter lives abroad and came to the UK on Sunday to sort out details for her wedding next year and was planning to stay with us. Being responsible parents, we booked a hotel for in our town. She is relying on favours from friends in getting her and fiance to the relevant places.

This is the first time in 35 years of marriage, that I haven't been able to be with my wife when she was ill - even just sitting on the bed next to her - that hurts so much.

The reason for this rant is the attitude of the person who we are convinced is the source of the infection. My wife works at a pre-school (kindergarten) and the only other worker that has tested positive (doesn't wear a mask anymore as they "don't have too") came into work in the middle of a pandemic when she wasn't feeling well at all and had the previous two days off sick. The reason they gave for not testing herself was "we work with children, they don't get it".





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Oh Jesus! Sorry to hear that.

Oh, you live in Wiltshire. I think I saw something about Covid running wild in schools in Wiltshire right now. Is that right?
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Old 20th October 2021, 07:17 AM   #399
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Weird that the guidelines have you talking to your wife through the bedroom door, but don't have sick schoolteachers being tested before returning to work.
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Old 20th October 2021, 07:20 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Weird that the guidelines have you talking to your wife through the bedroom door, but don't have sick schoolteachers being tested before returning to work.
It is only suggested / advised that you test yourself if you feel unwell for early years education. Nothing mandated.

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