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Old 6th September 2021, 11:22 PM   #281
dirtywick
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i believe the last year of homeschooling was awful for the kids, and i'll be a lot more comfortable when they open vaccination to younger children.
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Old 7th September 2021, 01:51 AM   #282
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
NONE!

There is NO level of harm to children that is acceptable to me. There may be a level of harm I might have to tolerate, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it!

NOTE: If you decide to answer DO NOT SNIP OUT THE SECOND SENTENCE ABOVE. It qualifies the first sentence. If you snip it out, then you are being dishonest.


That is superb.

Have a thesaurus, and do note the words in RED*.

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/tolerate

* red being the best synonyms.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Is there a shortage of masks that would have us waiting until Christmas?
If you think masks on kids will work, or do any more than slow the spread, you're living in fantasyland again. Try getting five-year-olds to wear a mask all day and see how it goes. Will they eat with them on, too?

(and don't even think about mentioning social distancing, because most NZ schools are barely able to accommodate existing numbers)

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Also, you ignored this bit...
No, I dismissed it as being too stupid to respond to,

Yet again, as a white bloke in the second-whitest region in NZ, you wouldn't have any idea that a huge number of kids in Auckland especially, have no access to remote learning.

Oh wait, Cinderella was going to ensure all children had access to devices in 202. How did that go?

Oops, it failed, fancy that!

And yes, I'm sure some privileged families manage to homeschool successfully.

As above, your Pakeha-centric view of society is hilarious, ignoring the reality of thousands of families where there isn't anyone to teach, because both parents must work to put food on the table, often in an English as second language setting.

But you're right, let's protect the white kids and let the brown ones fester in their own ignorance, eh?

You really need to poke your head out of your very limited world view occasionally and consider how those less fortunate are forced to live their lives. Christ, we live in a country where some kids rotate school days because they don't have shoes to go around and you think they can be successfully homeschooled.

And then have the temerity to mention moral repugnance.
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Old 7th September 2021, 03:19 AM   #283
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For what is worth, masks on kids work perfectly well, if they are taught how to wear them, and parents/school teachers are willing to lead by example.

We have them on all ages of children here in Hong Kong, its a necessity to enter school premises. They have learned to deal with them, like they learn anything else. Yes, that includes 5 year olds and younger.

They are taken off when eating, and put on again immediately after.

There may well be societal differences there that preclude this, but there is nothing in principle that stops mask wearing for children working, if the masks are available and the will is there.
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Old 7th September 2021, 03:45 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post


That is superb.

Have a thesaurus, and do note the words in RED*.

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/tolerate

* red being the best synonyms.


I noticed you studiously avoided using a dictionary. What's the matter TA? Couldn't you find a dictionary with a definition that fit your BS narrative? So you used a Thesaurus? That's it isn't it? Bwhahahahaha! Hilarious. So, shall we look up what a Thesaurus actually is? Shall we?

Here, have a dictionary, and do note the words in RED*.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...lish/thesaurus

A thesaurus is a reference book in which words with similar meanings are grouped together

And while you're here, have another dictionary, and again note the words in RED*.

https://www.lexico.com/definition/thesaurus

A book or electronic resource that lists words in groups of synonyms and related concepts.

Now lets clarify what a synonym is. Again note the words in RED*.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/synonym

a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language

Accepting something is emphatically NOT the same as tolerating it.

I tolerate the idea that some people might be racists, but I certainly do not accept them, or, to put it in terms that you might better understand, I tolerate your opinions on this topic, but I certainly do not accept them.

But if you don't believe me, here, have, have an encyclopedia, and again note the words in RED*.

https://pediaa.com/what-is-the-diffe...nd-acceptance/
The difference between tolerance and acceptance
Tolerance is your willingness to endure the existence of opinions or behaviour you dislike or disagree with.
Acceptance, on the other hand, is assenting and embracing someone or something you don't like, without protesting and without trying to change them.
... Thus, this is the difference between tolerance and acceptance.


* Yeah, RED! That's the colour a face turns when a feeble attempt at "gotcha" blows up in it.

Another laughing dog just or fun.




<snipped pointlessness>

You know, I think it is time you and I faced up to an important fact, and that is, we see these issues from completely and utterly irreconcilable, polar opposite points of view. We are like a far-right extremist and member of Antifa locked in a confined space. Your views on the expendability of children on the altar of the common good is utterly revolting to me, and a complete anathema the values I was brought up with. I will NOT be changing my standpoint on this ever. I am also 100% certain that you perceive your position to be infallible, and that nothing will ever persuade you question its veracity,

I conclude therefore, that further debate between you and I will be an exercise in sheer futility - I won't be replying to you again.
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Old 7th September 2021, 03:47 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by GraculusTheGreenBird View Post
For what is worth, masks on kids work perfectly well, if they are taught how to wear them, and parents/school teachers are willing to lead by example.

We have them on all ages of children here in Hong Kong, its a necessity to enter school premises. They have learned to deal with them, like they learn anything else. Yes, that includes 5 year olds and younger.

They are taken off when eating, and put on again immediately after.

There may well be societal differences there that preclude this, but there is nothing in principle that stops mask wearing for children working, if the masks are available and the will is there.
This!

Denial of the functionality of masks as a preventive measure the spread of viruses is just pure ignorance.
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Old 7th September 2021, 04:19 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This!

Denial of the functionality of masks as a preventive measure the spread of viruses is just pure ignorance.
I should also point out that in HK people wear masks 100% of the time when in public places, its not just kids. The only time they are taken off is eating or drinking.

You will never see someone on the street or in a shop without one, it just doesn't happen. Its become a universal cultural norm.
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Old 7th September 2021, 04:53 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post

Laughing at people who do not think that accepting any level of harm to children is ok. You are a sick, sick man, The Atheist.
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Old 7th September 2021, 05:22 AM   #288
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Again, the thing the Atheist is missing (intentionally at this point) is the fact that society does not exist simply to be holding a perpetual "Who can be worried the most efficiently" competition for his benefit.
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Old 7th September 2021, 05:43 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again, the thing the Atheist is missing (intentionally at this point) is the fact that society does not exist simply to be holding a perpetual "Who can be worried the most efficiently" competition for his benefit.
Well his posts almost all have the primary purpose of showing us all how clever he thinks he is. The actual subject subject is incidental.

(The forthcoming yellow card is worth it )
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Old 7th September 2021, 04:28 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I noticed you studiously avoided using a dictionary. What's the matter TA? Couldn't you find a dictionary with a definition that fit your BS narrative? So you used a Thesaurus? That's it isn't it? Bwhahahahaha! Hilarious.
Way to show the paucity of your position, now attempting to disprove something when you got caught with your pants down. Again...

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Accepting something is emphatically NOT the same as tolerating it.
FYI, they have exactly the same meaning in the context you used it. You're merely proving you don't understand what synonyms and context actually are.

Dictionary, you say! Forsooth.

American Dictionary of Heritage

Cambridge Dictionary

But hey, I really enjoy your inability to admit being wrong - I'm sure there's a name for it.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I conclude therefore, that further debate between you and I will be an exercise in sheer futility - I won't be replying to you again.
Lucky escape for you, I'd say. I still have a shipload of other dictionaries ready to ram down your throat.

Pathetic

Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Laughing at people who do not think that accepting any level of harm to children is ok. You are a sick, sick man, The Atheist.
Oh god, there's another one with reading difficulties.

If you read what I actually typed, rather than what you think I typed, I was laughing at SC thinking he was making a point by using two different words.

That mean exactly the same thing.

I don't think children being harmed is ok, but on the other hand, everyone in society accepts and tolerates (yes, that's a deliberate tautology) that harm will happen to children. This is why we allow them to go into the big, wide world, climb trees, cross roads, play with dirty, diseased children, play with knives, light fires, and put things in their mouths that might be toxic and all the other things that happen in childhood to kids that don't have uber-helicopter parents watching them 24 hours a day.

Our kids have walked to school and playgrounds on their own since they were 8 years old.

OMFG!!@21!!! I must be a child murderer. Run over, abducted, bitten by dogs... there are lots of things that could have happened and almost all of them are much more likely to kill than Covid.

This thread has turned out quite nicely - people are being irrational about the harm of Covid in children, while ironically completely ignoring the real harm done by screwing up their education.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again, the thing the Atheist is missing (intentionally at this point) is the fact that society does not exist simply to be holding a perpetual "Who can be worried the most efficiently" competition for his benefit.
One of these days you'll answer the question instead of making inane, irrelevant, and incorrect responses.

It's been bolded several times so I see no need to repeat it.

You could could follow another's lead and flounce out of the thread if you feel incapable of answering it.
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Old 7th September 2021, 04:50 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by GraculusTheGreenBird View Post
For what is worth, masks on kids work perfectly well, if they are taught how to wear them, and parents/school teachers are willing to lead by example.

We have them on all ages of children here in Hong Kong, its a necessity to enter school premises. They have learned to deal with them, like they learn anything else. Yes, that includes 5 year olds and younger.

They are taken off when eating, and put on again immediately after.

There may well be societal differences there that preclude this, but there is nothing in principle that stops mask wearing for children working, if the masks are available and the will is there.
From what I see kids do just fine with masks, like little troopers.
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Old 7th September 2021, 06:02 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
One of these days you'll answer the question instead of making inane, irrelevant, and incorrect responses.

It's been bolded several times so I see no need to repeat it.

You could could follow another's lead and flounce out of the thread if you feel incapable of answering it.
Your inane "hOw MaNY DeAED CHILDren Is AccEEPTABEL!?" one? Yeah I saw it every time you asked it, laughed, and ignored it which is all the response it deserves.
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Old 7th September 2021, 06:32 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
From what I see kids do just fine with masks, like little troopers.
"Skeptic Ginger applauds use of child soldiers!" No doubt the masks serve dual purposes in both concealing their identities and making it easier to use mustard gas on civilians. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, madam!
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Old 7th September 2021, 07:25 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Your inane "hOw MaNY DeAED CHILDren Is AccEEPTABEL!?" one? Yeah I saw it every time you asked it, laughed, and ignored it which is all the response it deserves.

... which, upon reflection, I probably what I should have done as well.
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Old 8th September 2021, 12:36 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Your inane "hOw MaNY DeAED CHILDren Is AccEEPTABEL!?" one? Yeah I saw it every time you asked it, laughed, and ignored it which is all the response it deserves because answering it would expose my total lack of argument.
FTFY
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This is tragic: an 11-month-old baby with serious pre-existing conditions is one of NZ's Covid victims, while having influenza at the same time! A certain death sentence.

Did not even need to go to hospital.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...e-will-recover
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Old 8th September 2021, 04:41 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Your inane "hOw MaNY DeAED CHILDren Is AccEEPTABEL!?" one? Yeah I saw it every time you asked it, laughed, and ignored it which is all the response it deserves.
It's been interesting to see the continuing doubling down on this attitude as the body count due to the pandemic has grown steadily higher.

Sure, in the early days it was pretty easy to hand-wave away the deaths. A few here, maybe some nursing homes getting wiped out, but they were half dead non-earners so who cares?

As the pandemic started ripping a bloody path throughout society, this pretend rational disinterest has gotten so extreme to be beyond parody. The pontificating on the meaningless of life and death has gotten so absurd it would make brainless freshman philosophy students blush.

The strategic ultra-nihilism is interesting to witness.
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Old 8th September 2021, 05:10 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's been interesting to see the continuing doubling down on this attitude as the body count due to the pandemic has grown steadily higher.

Sure, in the early days it was pretty easy to hand-wave away the deaths. A few here, maybe some nursing homes getting wiped out, but they were half dead non-earners so who cares?

As the pandemic started ripping a bloody path throughout society, this pretend rational disinterest has gotten so extreme to be beyond parody. The pontificating on the meaningless of life and death has gotten so absurd it would make brainless freshman philosophy students blush.

The strategic ultra-nihilism is interesting to witness.
651,000 deaths in the US, its

• Almost one Civil War
• 1 World War IIs
• 5 World War Is
• 11 Vietnam Wars
• 18 Korean Wars
• 44 Wars of 1812
• 147 Gulf Wars
• 218 9/11s

Meh, its only 0.2% of the population, so what's the big deal?
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Old 8th September 2021, 05:38 AM   #298
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It was only two 9/11s a day at its peak. Nothing to pANiC about.
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Old 8th September 2021, 05:40 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The strategic ultra-nihilism is interesting to witness.
Yeah I seriously thought the "I'm better than you because I don't care about anything" flex was something we all outgrew when we stopped doodling Pentagrams and Linkin Park lyrics in our high school notebooks.
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Old 8th September 2021, 05:52 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah I seriously thought the "I'm better than you because I don't care about anything" flex was something we all outgrew when we stopped doodling Pentagrams and Linkin Park lyrics in our high school notebooks.
Conservatives then: It's only a few old people, stop crying

Conservatives now: What is death? What is life? What does it mean to exist? What is consciousness?
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Old 8th September 2021, 07:00 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Conservatives then: It's only a few old people, stop crying

Conservatives now: What is death? What is life? What does it mean to exist? What is consciousness?
Standard trolling 101. When losing the debate start a debate about the debate or argue the broad philosophy of the debate.

As I've called it in the past when my house is burning down I want to talk about how to put fires out, when your house is burning down I want, nay demand, a deep philosophical debate about the inherent natural right to have an unburned house.
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Old 8th September 2021, 07:05 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Standard trolling 101. When losing the debate start a debate about the debate or argue the broad philosophy of the debate.

As I've called it in the past when my house is burning down I want to talk about how to put fires out, when your house is burning down I want, nay demand, a deep philosophical debate about the inherent natural right to have an unburned house.
Whenever I read these comments, I hear them in a Werner Herzog voice, and it makes much more sense.

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Old 8th September 2021, 07:21 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
There is NO level of harm to children that is acceptable to me. There may be a level of harm I might have to tolerate, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it! : mad :
As long as you're willing to tolerate some level of harm to children, for the greater good, I'm satisfied. Honestly I don't see enough distance between "tolerate" and "accept" to justify the degree of moral outrage and moral superiority on display here. And of course tacking a "mad" emoji onto your statement just makes it look unserious anyway.
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Old 8th September 2021, 12:52 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah I seriously thought the "I'm better than you because I don't care about anything" flex was something we all outgrew when we stopped doodling Pentagrams and Linkin Park lyrics in our high school notebooks.
What a lovely little strawman! Can I have one?

Not caring has never been my position, which I've clearly stated on several occasions and even went as far as asking if people were aware of the "greatest harm" argument.

Yet again, avoid making a serious answer to double down on not having an actual response.

Well played.
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Old 8th September 2021, 01:15 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As long as you're willing to tolerate some level of harm to children, for the greater good, I'm satisfied. Honestly I don't see enough distance between "tolerate" and "accept" to justify the degree of moral outrage and moral superiority on display here.
OK, let me make it clearer for you

"There is NO level of harm to children that am willing to assent to without protesting. There may be a level of harm I might be forced to endure the existence of, but that doesn't mean I have to shut up and embrace it."

There is no "moral superiority" on display here. THIS IS WHO I AM. If you don't like it, tough. I don't have to justify the direction of my moral compass to you or anyone else.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And of course tacking a "mad" emoji onto your statement just makes it look unserious anyway.
Anything you say Jim
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Old 8th September 2021, 01:33 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
What a lovely little strawman!
Again making your argument look bad is not a "strawman."
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Old 8th September 2021, 01:34 PM   #307
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The nihilist contrarian troll army started at "Covid is not going to be a big deal because I want to be the 'I told you so' guy" so now that it IS a big deal their only defense is the same sad little "Okay but it's not technically a big deal..." routine.
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Old 8th September 2021, 01:39 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The far right troll army started at "Covid is not going to be a big deal because our God King said it wasn't going to be" so now that it IS a big deal their only defense is the same sad little "Okay but it's not technically a big deal..." routine.
Look Joe, there's two sides to every issue.

One says that underreacting to this clear and present danger will lead to mass loss of life and yet not fully understood permanent health complications from contracting a largely untreatable disease.

The other side says that overreacting might mean being slightly inconvenienced without need, like being required to wear a mask or avoid large crowds.

Who's to say which side is more reasonable?
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Old 8th September 2021, 02:05 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again making your argument look bad is not a "strawman."
Ah, you don't understand logical fallacies and have reading difficulty.

Let me help you out.

noun: strawman

1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

You are deliberately misrepresenting my position, presumably because you haven't been able to read it properly.

Every single one of your posts in the thread has completely misrepresented what I've typed. It's all still there, so you go back and check anytime.

Not that you will - you'll continue to post strawmen and utter ********.

And right on cue...

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The nihilist contrarian troll...
Probably a fire sale on them, feel free to use as many as you like.

You certainly seem unaware that using logical fallacies is a sure way to confirm you don't have the ability to deal with the subject at hand.
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Old 8th September 2021, 02:08 PM   #310
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They appear to be more contagious than Covid itself - here's another one.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The other side says that overreacting might mean being slightly inconvenienced without need, like being required to wear a mask or avoid large crowds.
Can you show me anywhere in this thread any post made that covers that sentiment, even if by the longest inference you can manufacture.

TIA

Hint: I've specifically noted what the actual problems are, backed by scientific and pediatric evidence, so feel free to ignore any of that.

Run along...
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Old 8th September 2021, 02:27 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Look Joe, there's two sides to every issue.

One says that underreacting to this clear and present danger will lead to mass loss of life and yet not fully understood permanent health complications from contracting a largely untreatable disease.

The other side says that overreacting might mean being slightly inconvenienced without need, like being required to wear a mask or avoid large crowds.

Who's to say which side is more reasonable?
The other side also starts getting snarky, sarcastic, demeaning, rude and generally dismissive of anyone who doesn't immediately snap to attention and fawn over their every proclamation, or who dares question their self-implied intellectual superiority.
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Old 8th September 2021, 02:52 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
651,000 deaths in the US, its

Almost one Civil War
1 World War IIs
5 World War Is
11 Vietnam Wars
18 Korean Wars
44 Wars of 1812
147 Gulf Wars
218 9/11s

Meh, its only 0.2% of the population, so what's the big deal?
Did you mean 2% or 0.2%?
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Old 8th September 2021, 03:08 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Did you mean 2% or 0.2%?
Its 0.2%

US Covid dead ~651,000
US Population ~328,200,000

651000 328,200,000 = 0.198 which is 1 in every 505 people, or 0.2%

2% of the US population would be 6.5 million
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Old 8th September 2021, 03:17 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Its 0.2%

US Covid dead ~651,000
US Population ~328,200,000

651000 328,200,000 = 0.198 which is 1 in every 505 people, or 0.2%

2% of the US population would be 6.5 million
Got it, thanks. But that math isn't right. the denominator would be all the people infected with COVID, not all the people in the US.

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Old 8th September 2021, 03:37 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Got it, thanks. But that math isn't right. the denominator would be all the people infected with COVID, not all the people in the US.
What? I think you have misunderstood the question. Nowhere did I talk about the Covid death rate from infections. The question is, "what percentage of the total US population have died as a result of Covid" ...

Quote:
........

...."Meh, its only 0.2% of the population"
So, Deaths/Population x 100, this is 651K 328M x 100.


ETA: The Covid death rate from infections is 651K 40.5M x 100 ~1.6%
(It is approximate because the denominator contains currently infected, unrecovered patients, some of who may yet die. Those people are not included in the divisor)
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Old 8th September 2021, 04:47 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
(Insert the scene from Airplane! here)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/icpyf7at4o...tack.gif?raw=1

Your wish is my command!
Snortlaff!
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Old 8th September 2021, 11:22 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
What? I think you have misunderstood the question. Nowhere did I talk about the Covid death rate from infections. The question is, "what percentage of the total US population have died as a result of Covid" ...

So, Deaths/Population x 100, this is 651K 328M x 100.

ETA: The Covid death rate from infections is 651K 40.5M x 100 ~1.6%
(It is approximate because the denominator contains currently infected, unrecovered patients, some of who may yet die. Those people are not included in the divisor)
OK. Not used to looking at fatality rates that way but that's fine.
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Old 9th September 2021, 12:53 AM   #318
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Covid positive mortality rate says it is not a pandemic
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Old 9th September 2021, 03:46 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Covid positive mortality rate says it is not a pandemic
What definition of "pandemic" are you basing this on, and can you provide a link?
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Old 9th September 2021, 03:58 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Covid positive mortality rate says it is not a pandemic
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pandemic

An outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affects a significant proportion of the population : a pandemic outbreak of a disease


Mortality rate has nothing whatever to do with whether a disease is pandemic.

228M people world wide have been infected with Covid-19. That is 3% of the global population. In the US, its 41.4M, that is 12.6% (one in every eight people).

Any way you slice it, those are "a significant proportion of the population".

ETA: Oh and just for reference and your education, the 1918 Influenza A virus subtype H1N1 pandemic 1918 (a bit of a misnomer as it ran almost 2 years to mid 1920) came in four waves that infected about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population with this virus. The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million. In the US, about 28% of the population of 105 million became infected, and an estimated 675,000 died, 0.6% of the population.

You might think that given the relative populations, it was a far more serious pandemic than Covid, but you must keep in mind that living conditions in 1918 were far worse than the present day. Medical knowledge was nowhere near as advanced, and hygiene conditions were deplorable by our standards. There were also no vaccines to protect against infection and no antibiotics to treat the secondary bacterial infections associated with influenza infections.
.
.
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