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Old 9th September 2021, 09:15 PM   #321
Horhang
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How things are going for me in southern CA: I teach 8th grade science and we have been full in person in school for 8 1/2 weeks. Masks required when indoors for both students and teachers, but not social distancing. Initially teachers indoors with only other teachers if all vaccinated could be unmasked, that has been rescinded and masks now required.
The first 3-4 weeks we had cases of students testing positive and isolations. I would get the public notice of a student has tested positive and is in isolation unless it was one of my students. If it was one of my students I would be provided the name and then have to provide the names of students who would have been In close contact, 2 meters for 15 minutes or more. Since the first 4 weeks we have had no cases, and those cases in the first 4 weeks appear to have been infected outside school.
My son is in the High School we feed to as a middle school, so same population. I get almost weekly emails about a case found on campus and the person in isolation. They have the same protocols on campus as we do; same school district.
Schools do not seem to be a source of spread if done right, masks indoors and good ventilation. We are currently taxing our havoc system s because doors must remain open during class, so air conditioning is running all day and marginally cooling the room as the air flow takes the cool air out the door. Small sacrifices. No panic.
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Old 10th September 2021, 09:38 PM   #322
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It seems nations like the UK, the USA, and Australia have COVID plans that have stopped panicking and are "letting people live with the virus" as vaccination levels rise.

Meanwhile they're leaving it to the states and counties to worry about whether lockdowns and strict restrictions are required.

On a macro level the panic is over, and as the virus becomes more endemic, micro-restrictions are also becoming less necessary.

At some point the decision will lie with the family then the individual.

I'd like to hear how our leaders and chief health officers phrase it.
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Old 11th September 2021, 03:44 AM   #323
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Denmark looks to have set the benchmark, and I think they've got it dead right - get vaccinations to the point where everyone who wants one has had it, then ignore the disease and get back to normality.
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Old 11th September 2021, 04:14 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Denmark looks to have set the benchmark, and I think they've got it dead right - get vaccinations to the point where everyone who wants one has had it, then ignore the disease and get back to normality.
I think NZ can do an outliery type thing.
I havent moved offshore since 90s and no desire.
Let us do as the ants.
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Old 15th September 2021, 05:32 AM   #325
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1 in every 500 Americans has died of the Covid-19 virus since the first reported case in America.

663,913 US deaths, as of Tuesday night.

5.7 billion dollars in the last 3 months alone treating unvaccinated people.
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Old 15th September 2021, 09:37 PM   #326
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I'll just leave this here for those who don't think children with covid-19 is a big issue.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Transcript here for the YouTube averse...

For the first 15 months of the pandemic here in the state of Florida, only six children died. Since July 30th of this year, from July 30th through the first week of September, 17 children have died from COVID-19 here in the state of Florida. And of course, across the country, child cases of COVID-19 are going through the roof, and that's not a coincidence, folks. That coincides with schools restarting across the country.

One of the reasons Florida's a little ahead right now in the number of kids dying from COVID is because our schools start back earlier than other schools. We're actually in week five down here in Florida, as some folks are still posting first day pictures of their kids on Facebook. That's why our numbers are higher. But don't worry. Those other states are unfortunately going to start catching up with us because every one of these child cases, every one of these child deaths at this point was largely preventable.

If we had put safeguards in place, if we had left distance learning in place, the chances of most of these kids still being alive are insanely high. And sure, I know that the anti maskers are gonna point to the fact that a lot of the kids here in Florida that have died, the 17 since July 30th, a lot of them had underlying conditions. Not all of them, by the way, had underlying conditions, but most of them did. Sure, sure, sure. But how would you feel if that was your kid who had severe asthma and wasn't able to fight off COVID because their lungs were already weakened? Or what if it was your kid that had a compromised immune system that made them more susceptible to COVID-19? Okay. We're not talking about kids that have been smoking for 40 years and their lungs couldn't handle it. We're talking about children who were born with these compromised immune systems or born with these underlying conditions that helped them die from COVID, I guess we could say. But had COVID not come along, these children would not be dead today. And that's the big takeaway here.

But here in Florida, Ron DeSantis just scored a victory actually in a district court up here where we are saying that his mask mandate can stay in place or ban on mask mandate, I should say. So we're sending kids to school. Allowing, as Ron DeSantis says, the parents to make the best decisions about what's good for their children.

Cool. But if your kid's not wearing a mask and another kid is that is still highly transmissible versus both children wearing a mask and that significantly reduces the chances of spreading the virus from one child to another or from a teacher to a child. It doesn't work if only a couple kids are doing it. So, no, you're not just making choices about the health of your child. You're making choices about the health of my children. You're making choices about everybody else's children when you send your kids to school without a mask. This isn't about your freedom of choice or your, you know, constitutional protections. This is about you making health choices based on misinformation for everybody else's kids who are going to suffer because of it. These child cases were preventable. These child deaths were preventable.

And here we are sending all the kids back to school, into these giant petri dishes and based on the data we've seen so far, we unfortunately know how this story is going to end.
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Old 15th September 2021, 10:01 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Since July 30th of this year, from July 30th through the first week of September, 17 children have died from COVID-19 here in the state of Florida.
17

In a population of 3 million children.

A death rate of 0.0006%.

Perfect example of panicking over statistics. Thanks for that.
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Old 16th September 2021, 02:19 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
17

In a population of 3 million children.

A death rate of 0.0006%.

Perfect example of panicking over statistics. Thanks for that.
It's not just the deaths, it's also the long-term sickness that's an issue.

It's also not just the children, infected children bring Covid back home and infect adults who are more likely to get sick and die.

It's not just the sickness and deaths. A large, unvaccinated population mixing freely is the ideal environment for the evolution of new variants, increasing the likelihood of the emergence of one or more against which current vaccinations are ineffective or much less effective.
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Old 16th September 2021, 04:14 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's not just the deaths, it's also the long-term sickness that's an issue.

It's also not just the children, infected children bring Covid back home and infect adults who are more likely to get sick and die.

It's not just the sickness and deaths. A large, unvaccinated population mixing freely is the ideal environment for the evolution of new variants, increasing the likelihood of the emergence of one or more against which current vaccinations are ineffective or much less effective.
Yeah but that involves using some logical reasoning that allows one to think beyond their next knee-jerk post.

It is a fact that in the US, schools with no mask mandates are turning into mini-superspreaders; kid goes to school, gets infected, takes it home, spreads it to mum, dad and siblings. Kid and Siblings go back to so the same school in another class, or another school. With the Delta variant running at R0 = 5 - 9 in the USA, each child likely spreads it to 6 - 9 other kids and/or teachers, who take it home etc etc etc. and we know this is how it happens, because we see this cycle every year during flu season. Farron Cousins correctly describes schools as "petri dishes"
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Old 16th September 2021, 04:30 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yeah but that involves using some logical reasoning that allows one to think beyond their next knee-jerk post.

It is a fact that in the US, schools with no mask mandates are turning into mini-superspreaders; kid goes to school, gets infected, takes it home, spreads it to mum, dad and siblings. Kid and Siblings go back to so the same school in another class, or another school. With the Delta variant running at R0 = 5 - 9 in the USA, each child likely spreads it to 6 - 9 other kids and/or teachers, who take it home etc etc etc. and we know this is how it happens, because we see this cycle every year during flu season. Farron Cousins correctly describes schools as "petri dishes"
Wow. I dont doubt you, but do you have a source?

We are trying hard to drive it below 1 in New South Wales and Victoria, and some states have it close to zero.
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Old 16th September 2021, 05:13 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Wow. I dont doubt you, but do you have a source?

We are trying hard to drive it below 1 in New South Wales and Victoria, and some states have it close to zero.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...cdc-chickenpox
"For the delta variant, the R0 is now calculated at between six and seven," Wenseleers says. So it's two- to three-times as contagious as the original version of SARS-CoV-2 (R0 = 2 to 3) but less contagious than the chickenpox (R0 = 9 to 10)."
https://www.rpbsafety.com/covid-19/delta-variant
What is driving this outbreak?

Compared to the original strain of COVID, the Delta variant is considerably more contagious. To measure this, epidemiologists use a reproductive number (R0) to indicate how many people that an infected person is likely to infect. The original strain of COVID had an R0 of 2.3 2.7, whereas the Delta variant has an R0 of 5.0 9.5. To put this into perspective, the 1918 influenza pandemic had an estimated R0 of between 2.0 3.0 and it infected over 30% of the global population and claimed the lives of up to 50 million people.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...-holds-answers
Now the CDC estimates that people infected with Delta pass the virus to between five and 9.5 people. This is higher than the original virus identified in Wuhan, China, which had an R0 between 2.3 and 2.7, and the Alpha variant which had an R0 between four and five. Delta can be as infectious as chicken pox, which has an R0 between 9 and 10.
The idea that there is "Pandemic Panic" going in is compete and utter bollocks. The reality is that it is not being taken seriously enough.

A disease with an R0 of 9 left unchecked and with no vaccine, would have infected the whole population of New Zealand within 6 to 7 infection cycles of the disease... about a month, and with a death rate of around 1.8% would put about 85,000 Kiwis in an early grave.
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Old 16th September 2021, 07:08 AM   #332
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The Atheist: "Stop panicking. Bear attacks kill less that two people a year on average in the US."

(Said to person currently being mauled by a bear)
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Old 16th September 2021, 02:25 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The Atheist: "Stop panicking. Bear attacks kill less that two people a year on average in the US."

(Said to person currently being mauled by a bear)
Yeah, but the overwhelming chances are you'll come out with just some scars, a limp... maybe lose an eye and some fingers.
What the hell are you getting worked up about?


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Old 16th September 2021, 03:21 PM   #334
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https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...tucker-carlson

A Kaiser Family Foundation report that estimated that the cost of preventable hospitalizations for unvaccinated adults went from $0.6bn in June to $3.7bn in August, with a total $5bn spent on it across these three months alone.

During this time, the number of unvaccinated adults who were hospitalized primarily for Covid-19 treatment went up from 39,000 to 342,000, the report estimated.

An almost nine-fold increase in just three months.

Meh, nothing to see here folks, its only 0.1% of the population

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/15/h...=1631702211105
The United States has reached another grim milestone in its fight against the devastating Covid-19 pandemic: 1 in 500 Americans have died from coronavirus since the nation's first reported infection.
As of Tuesday night, 663,913 people in the US have died of Covid-19, according to Johns Hopkins University data. According to the US Census Bureau, the US population as of April 2020 was 331.4 million.
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Old 16th September 2021, 03:35 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Now the CDC estimates that people infected with Delta pass the virus to between five and 9.5 people. This is higher than the original virus identified in Wuhan, China, which had an R0 between 2.3 and 2.7, and the Alpha variant which had an R0 between four and five. Delta can be as infectious as chicken pox, which has an R0 between 9 and 10.
This is misleading and would only be true if both no one had been previously infected/vaccinated and no one was masking, distancing or any using other NPIs.

What's important is R, which includes the effects of NPIs, vaccinations and prior infections. And that's rarely been over 2 since Delta came out. And it's been close to 2 even in a few highly vaccinated countries. When R is 1.0, the daily cases remains unchanged at whatever level it's at, low or high. When .9 cases will decrease about 15% a week, when at 1.1 cases will increase about 15% a week.

One problem with getting R below 1 is breakthrough case forward transmission. It's not clear that even if >90% of an entire population was vaccinated whether R would drop below 1 absent NPIs and NPIs won't go on forever. This is why most epidemiologists expect Covid to be endemic. People that are unvaccinated cannot just wait it out. They will eventually get covid and is why as many people as possible need to get vaccinated.
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Old 16th September 2021, 05:35 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's not just the deaths, it's also the long-term sickness that's an issue.
Except for kids, it's not: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...viously-feared

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's also not just the children, infected children bring Covid back home and infect adults who are more likely to get sick and die.
Should have had the vaccine.

Do you seriously think shutting schools forever is an option? Covid is now an endemic disease that everyone is going to catch at some stage.

Get vaccinated, reduce your chances of dying, get on with life.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's not just the sickness and deaths. A large, unvaccinated population mixing freely is the ideal environment for the evolution of new variants, increasing the likelihood of the emergence of one or more against which current vaccinations are ineffective or much less effective.
Perfect example of panic.

Covid isn't going to become ebola. It has one means of attacking humans, and vaccines protect against all variants. We've been through the "OMFG alpha/beta/delta/mu might escape the vaccine!!11!!"

They don't.

But seriously, what do you propose doing?

As I see it, there are only two alternatives:

1 - have as many people as possible vaccinated and carry on*
2 - stay locked up forever

If there's a third option, let me know.

*UK is on this path and Covid is out of control! infection numbers and deaths are dropping.
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Old 16th September 2021, 05:37 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
They will eventually get covid and is why as many people as possible need to get vaccinated.
As usual, right on the money.
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Old 16th September 2021, 05:39 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The idea that there is "Pandemic Panic" going in is compete and utter bollocks. The reality is that it is not being taken seriously enough.


Says the guy panicking over false infection rates.

Nice work.
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Old 16th September 2021, 07:14 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
What's important is R, which includes the effects of NPIs, vaccinations and prior infections. And that's rarely been over 2 since Delta came out. And it's been close to 2 even in a few highly vaccinated countries. When R is 1.0, the daily cases remains unchanged at whatever level it's at, low or high. When .9 cases will decrease about 15% a week, when at 1.1 cases will increase about 15% a week.

One problem with getting R below 1 is breakthrough case forward transmission. It's not clear that even if >90% of an entire population was vaccinated whether R would drop below 1 absent NPIs and NPIs won't go on forever. This is why most epidemiologists expect Covid to be endemic. People that are unvaccinated cannot just wait it out. They will eventually get covid and is why as many people as possible need to get vaccinated.
Yeah, No! You didn't read AT ALL what I said...

If the R0 number is "misleading" why the **** are the CDC and the WHO publishing this information?

YES: I know that the R0 number is variable depending on the the environment it is and the extent to which mitigation steps are employed. In this country, that to prompt and decisive action by out goverment and its advisors. But that is not what I was talking about.. what part of "A disease with an R0 of 9 left unchecked and with no vaccine" escapes you?

Originally Posted by marting View Post
This is misleading and would only be true if both no one had been previously infected/vaccinated and no one was masking, distancing or any using other NPIs.
Its worth noting that the jury is out on whether being infected and recovering gives you any long term protection against being reinfected, especially in the event that a new variant comes along which, thanks to all the self-centred morons who refuse to get vaccinated, is very likely to happen.
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Old 16th September 2021, 09:26 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yeah, No! You didn't read AT ALL what I said...

If the R0 number is "misleading" why the **** are the CDC and the WHO publishing this information?
The quote from National Geographic was misleading. The very first sentence was this:

Now the CDC estimates that people infected with Delta pass the virus to between five and 9.5 people.

That's never been the case.

While the rest of the NG quote discusses evolution of R0 it fails to note that these are reproduction ratios on a completely susceptible population with no NPIs and the first sentence doesn't mention these. Thus the quote, standing alone, is false. Such a situation exists exactly nowhere since Delta arrived and at no time did such a repro rate occur because of NPIs and prior reductions from infection. I would hope National Geographic provided context that would have explained that but it's paywalled.

Agree that over a long term, protection from prior infection (or vaccination) is unknown but is currently significant but not perfect.
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Old 16th September 2021, 10:00 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
The quote from National Geographic was misleading. The very first sentence was this:

Now the CDC estimates that people infected with Delta pass the virus to between five and 9.5 people.

That's never been the case.

While the rest of the NG quote discusses evolution of R0 it fails to note that these are reproduction ratios on a completely susceptible population with no NPIs and the first sentence doesn't mention these. Thus the quote, standing alone, is false. Such a situation exists exactly nowhere since Delta arrived and at no time did such a repro rate occur because of NPIs and prior reductions from infection. I would hope National Geographic provided context that would have explained that but it's paywalled.

Agree that over a long term, protection from prior infection (or vaccination) is unknown but is currently significant but not perfect.

Still . missing . the . point!
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:22 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Less common than feared <> doesn't happen and the report itself is specific that the risk is unknown:

Quote:
We dont in fact have an accurate determination of the risk of long Covid, but its likely to be considerably less than many headlines have been suggesting.
IMO it's reasonable to consider illness both long and short term when assessing the response to the Covid risk - not just deaths.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Should have had the vaccine.
In the UK the vaccine is estimated to be 65% effective at preventing infection from the Delta variant. Being vaccinated helps immensely but doesn't prevent you from being infected.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Do you seriously think shutting schools forever is an option? Covid is now an endemic disease that everyone is going to catch at some stage.

Get vaccinated, reduce your chances of dying, get on with life.
I'm not suggesting shutting schools forever, but IMO there has to be some middle ground between that and what the UK government has done which is to open schools with absolutely no precautions in place. Why not insist that children wear masks ? Why not ensure that classrooms are adequately ventilated (and heated) ? Why not instil a culture of good basic hygiene ? Why not encourage sick children to stay at home ?

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Perfect example of panic.

Covid isn't going to become ebola. It has one means of attacking humans, and vaccines protect against all variants. We've been through the "OMFG alpha/beta/delta/mu might escape the vaccine!!11!!"

They don't.
Except that increasingly they do.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
But seriously, what do you propose doing?

As I see it, there are only two alternatives:

1 - have as many people as possible vaccinated and carry on*
2 - stay locked up forever

If there's a third option, let me know.

*UK is on this path and Covid is out of control! infection numbers and deaths are dropping.
The third option is to change the way that we in the West respond when we get sick and to make modifications to the way that we behave generally. Examples include, but are not limited to:
  • Get vaccinated and get boosters if they're offered. Despite it being free, many eligible people in the UK do not get their annual 'flu vaccine in part because the vaccine is effective enough that people don't see the need
  • Maintaining good hygiene standards. Continue to regularly wash/sanitise your hands, try not to touch your face and be wary of surfaces which could act as transmission vectors
  • If you're not feeling well, don't struggle into work, don't force yourself to go on that night out, stay at home until you're better
  • If you have to do out when you're not feeling well then wear a mask to avoid passing on whatever ails you to those around you
  • Limit unnecessary physical contact with strangers. I know it feels odd not to shake someone's hand when you're introduced, but there really is no need - and don't even get me started on huggers
  • If there's an outbreak locally, modify your behaviour until it dies down. Avoid going out unnecessarily. You don't need to sit in a crowded pub for hours
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Old 17th September 2021, 01:48 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm not suggesting shutting schools forever
In fact, not one single person here in this thread, or on this forum, is suggesting the idea that schools should be shut forever. In fact, there do not even appear to be any politicians, doctors or virologists, nor are any spokespeople for the CDC or the WHO advocating permanent school closures.

I know of only one person who has even been talking about it... and they are panicking over it?
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Old 17th September 2021, 06:33 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Denmark looks to have set the benchmark, and I think they've got it dead right - get vaccinations to the point where everyone who wants one has had it, then ignore the disease and get back to normality.
You can do these sorts of things when there is a healthcare system not on the verge of collapse, and have a stable welfare state that will ensure those who do do suffer long term issues will not get economically destroyed. Plus the political sanity to be able to make changes in the future if things look to be getting out of control.

It isn't so much that Denmark has the right attitude about covid as much as Denmark his a decent country that has it together in a way to where they can handle this sort of crisis in a sane way.
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Old 17th September 2021, 07:40 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
It isn't so much that Denmark has the right attitude about covid as much as Denmark his a decent country that has it together in a way to where they can handle this sort of crisis in a sane way.
And this honestly, more than anything, was the big policy failure in the United States regarding COVID.

"Well everything will be okay provided a massive demographic chunk of America doesn't decide en masse to be a bunch of self-destructive douchebags for no reason" cannot be the plan in America because they will always do exactly that.

I get that when the **** start there was no actual adults in the room to make that decision, but the assumption at the beginning should have been "A lot of people are literally going to try to make this worse on purpose."

As Jason Pargis put it: (Bolding Mine)

"By far the most common denial of science I see on here isn't about vaccines or masks, it's the total refusal to see human behavior as a real, measurable thing that we have to plan for. That a certain % of humans react badly to government mandates shouldn't have surprised anyone.

"I can't believe these people are risking spreading COVID just to get drunk at a party!" Oh, so you've never met a human being before? You haven't noticed how brains calculate long-term risk vs short-term pleasure (or fail to?). It's literally humanity's most defining trait!

This isn't an anti-lockdown thread, I get the reasoning and for the most part people locked down themselves regardless (ie stopped going to movies regardless of whether or not they were open). But those rules should have come with the assumption they'd be widely broken."
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Old 17th September 2021, 11:25 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO it's reasonable to consider illness both long and short term when assessing the response to the Covid risk - not just deaths.
Sure, but we need to balance the risk.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
In the UK the vaccine is estimated to be 65% effective at preventing infection from the Delta variant. Being vaccinated helps immensely but doesn't prevent you from being infected.
Again correct, but as long as being vaccinated stops you from needing a hospital bed, it really doesn't matter. And that appears to be holding up well.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm not suggesting shutting schools forever, but IMO there has to be some middle ground between that and what the UK government has done which is to open schools with absolutely no precautions in place. Why not insist that children wear masks ?
Ok, so older kids wear masks. That's the case here and it seems to be working ok.

But how are you going to get on with 5-year-olds? I've worked a lot with kids aged 4-8 and I don't see any way it's going to work. (I'm not even going to mention toddlers and babies)

Smaller kids will pass the disease around each other, then to their parents and siblings. All mask wearing will do is slow the spread a little, and for what point?

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Why not ensure that classrooms are adequately ventilated (and heated) ?
Be a little realistic. How long would it take to replace and upgrade the enormous number of HVAC systems in schools, and who's going to pay for it?

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Why not instil a culture of good basic hygiene ? Why not encourage sick children to stay at home ?
That's highly amusing.

We encourage that, and it does not happen.

I'd be first to applaud measures to get kids washing their hands and using basic hygiene measures. All of my children were thought of as slightly weird at primary school because they washed their hands before eating.

I suggest you visit a public toilet once and talk to me about people and hygiene.

Long before the pandemic, schools have been imploring parents on at least a monthly basis to keep sick children home.

Yet, every day, teachers are confronted in the mornings by sick kids turning up. It costs time and money to deal with and parents aren't going to change their behaviour.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Except that increasingly they do.
Please show evidence of different variants escaping vaccines at higher rates. Vaccine protection wanes, but the escape has not been displayed to be higher for one than another.

I've seen lots of panicked headlines "OMG Variant Xi* May Escape Vaccines!".

But they haven't.

Imagine a guy attacking you with spears while you're sitting inside a tank. He gets more and more spears, but he'll never get through and it is his sole means of attack. Covid is the guy with spears, and vaccines are your tank. More of the same isn't going to matter, but that doesn't sell as well as the OMG! headlines.

*Please, please, please use that!

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The third option is to change the way that we in the West respond when we get sick and to make modifications to the way that we behave generally. Examples include, but are not limited to:
I agree with everything you said there, but I'm certain the chances of it happening are zero.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In fact, not one single person here in this thread, or on this forum, is suggesting the idea that schools should be shut forever.
How long do they stay shut for, then?

And I seem to recall one particular poster advocating how excellent homeschooling is.

I can't recall who it was, but it'll come to me...
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Old 17th September 2021, 11:25 AM   #347
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Well at least when you die to defend this hill we can argue it's not statistically significant.
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Old 17th September 2021, 11:31 AM   #348
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I was trying to work out a metric for measuring societal panic and came up with sole occupants of cars wearing a mask while driving.

It's utterly illogical, yet a majority of drivers I see are wearing one, so we decided to do an actual count.

And not just in Auckland, where there are actual Covid cases, people are doing the same thing in Wellington, where there have been zero community cases for over three weeks, and Christchurch, where the last Covid case was 18 months ago.

Between myself and some friends in Wellington & Christchurch, we're seeing over 50% of drivers wearing a mask while driving their car as sole occupant. (65% Auck, 60% Wgtn and 52% Chch)

Totally not panicking.
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Old 17th September 2021, 11:56 AM   #349
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Who the **** cares? Who are they hurting?
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:28 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well at least when you die to defend this hill we can argue it's not statistically significant.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Who the **** cares? Who are they hurting?
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Old 17th September 2021, 01:25 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Who the **** cares? Who are they hurting?
Exactly. Normalising mask wearing is hardly the crime of the century.
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Old 17th September 2021, 01:29 PM   #352
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I'd rather the entire 405 freeway from San Diego to Los Angeles was filled bumper to bumper with cars filled with people wearing masks, lifejackets, climbing harnesses, condoms, mouth guards, safety googles, hard hats, and steel toed boots then one person dying from COVID that didn't have to.
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Old 17th September 2021, 01:40 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I was trying to work out a metric for measuring societal panic and came up with sole occupants of cars wearing a mask while driving.

It's utterly illogical, yet a majority of drivers I see are wearing one, so we decided to do an actual count.

And not just in Auckland, where there are actual Covid cases, people are doing the same thing in Wellington, where there have been zero community cases for over three weeks, and Christchurch, where the last Covid case was 18 months ago.

Between myself and some friends in Wellington & Christchurch, we're seeing over 50% of drivers wearing a mask while driving their car as sole occupant. (65% Auck, 60% Wgtn and 52% Chch)

Totally not panicking.

I wore a mask alone in my car most of the time during the early U.S. surges in 2020, especially when going from one mask-required location to another. I didn't remove the mask for the same reason I wouldn't take off a jacket or my shoes in the car even though it has a good climate control system and shoes aren't needed for driving. Why bother? Minimizing handling of the mask is also helpful for its function.

You speak as though you find every moment wearing a mask to be so excruciating that only "panic" can explain why a person would ever leave one on a moment longer than was strictly necessary. Try thinking shoes instead of hair shirts when contemplating other people's habits of mask usage.
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Old 17th September 2021, 01:43 PM   #354
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When seen this on the board before, a pro-disease posters going into hyper vigilant mode to find someone, anyone over-masking or wearing their mask .000001 nanoseconds longer than necessary or standing 8 feet away instead of 6 or whatever as if it proves something, as if caution or safety jump straight from "Do the absolute bare minimum" to "panic."

Like I said before. "My ethics are based around actually caring about other people and boy let me tell you I was not prepared for the number of people that would completely piss off."
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Old 17th September 2021, 04:32 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I wore a mask alone in my car most of the time during the early U.S. surges in 2020, especially when going from one mask-required location to another. I didn't remove the mask for the same reason I wouldn't take off a jacket or my shoes in the car even though it has a good climate control system and shoes aren't needed for driving. Why bother? Minimizing handling of the mask is also helpful for its function.

You speak as though you find every moment wearing a mask to be so excruciating that only "panic" can explain why a person would ever leave one on a moment longer than was strictly necessary. Try thinking shoes instead of hair shirts when contemplating other people's habits of mask usage.
I don't usually wear the mask in the car, but I have done on occasion when I have been travelling a short distance to pick up one of my daughters or grandchildren to take them somewhere. Much easier to just put it on before I leave than all that fossicking around for it in the car. I keep a spare mask in the glove box.

I also work part time at my old business (gave it to my my daughters when I retired), filling in for any staff off sick or on holiday. That requires wearing a mask in the shop. I often forget I'm even wearing it and drive home with it still on.
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Old 17th September 2021, 06:54 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Who the **** cares? Who are they hurting?
Nobody, but when you're living somewhere that hasn't had a case of Covid in about 500 days, it's pretty funny.
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Old 17th September 2021, 06:54 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Still no answer as to how long schools should stay shut...
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Old 18th September 2021, 04:55 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Still no answer as to how long schools should stay shut...
*The schoolhouse is still on fire*

The Atheist (Smugly, certain he's caught people in a gotcha): "Still no answer on how long the school should stay shut."

Dude I get it. You're a contrarian so the more people who disagree with you the more sure you are in your head that you are correct but drop it. It's just embarrassing now.
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Old 18th September 2021, 04:56 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nobody, but when you're living somewhere that hasn't had a case of Covid in about 500 days, it's pretty funny.
Wait I thought the big crisis was that people were panicking? Now it's just "pretty funny."

Again you don't have an actual point, you just want to have a problem.
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Old 18th September 2021, 01:42 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The Atheist (Smugly, certain he's caught people in a gotcha):
Nope.

I'm surprised at your inability to read and answer the simplest question.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Dude I get it.
Nope.

What you think you're "getting" is a fantasy from inside your own head.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You're a contrarian so the more people who disagree with you the more sure you are in your head that you are correct but drop it.
Wrong again.

I have a fairly extensive posting history here, both in general, and Covid in particular. I am in no way "contrarian" and I'm quite happy to let written history speak for me.

As to correctness, you're more than welcome to show anywhere in this thread - or in any of the other Covid threads - that I've been wrong. I've corrected a few others, but I don't see any mistakes I've made, with the possible exception of trying to engage with people incapable of understanding written words or setting out an actual argument.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's just embarrassing now.
You're right to be embarrassed, you haven't written a single substantive post in the thread yet.
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