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Old 28th September 2021, 12:02 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists.

It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you.

This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud.
Pretextual mewling about "free speech" and the "marketplace of ideas". As I said earlier, if you are not against them, then you are enabling them, you are helping them to stay out of sight to grow and thrive. That makes you part of the problem.

You also seem to be confusing "nazi" with "fascist"
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Old 28th September 2021, 02:24 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
But really how can you write a whole paragraph about how unfair Iím using nazi after you wrote this:
Do you not understand what tactics are?
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:10 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists.

It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you.

This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud.
Well there's "not supporting" and then there's "actively defending."

But what's important in this discussion is that you are the victim in all of this.
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:16 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Did you forget there was a witness?
Are you taking their word for it?
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:20 PM   #85
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The real victims are the holocaust deniers who lose their anonymity and are held socially accountable for their voluntary words and actions. To non-violently confront ideas you disagree with using words on social media is really the tactics used by authoritarians and fascists.
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:34 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Are you taking their word for it?
Is there a valid reason not to?

Do you have evidence that the witness lied?
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:37 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Well there's "not supporting" and then there's "actively defending."

But what's important in this discussion is that you are the victim in all of this.


I'm annoyed but I'm certainly not a victim. But whatever. Keep on ad homing.
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:38 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post




I'm annoyed but I'm certainly not a victim. But whatever. Keep on ad homing.
Says the person comparing others to nazis.
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:39 PM   #89
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On a bit more of a "wtf" note...

Apparently NYP is out to cancel a mentally ill homeless person.

This hate-filled NYC homeless man is bane of the neighborhood
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:39 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Says the person comparing others to nazis.
I didn't compare anyone to nazis. Read more better.
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Old 28th September 2021, 04:31 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
On a bit more of a "wtf" note...

Apparently NYP is out to cancel a mentally ill homeless person.

This hate-filled NYC homeless man is bane of the neighborhood
What they gonna do, get him fired?
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Old 28th September 2021, 04:58 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
What they gonna do, get him fired?
More likely to get him harassed, verbally and physically abused, and potentially killed.
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Old 28th September 2021, 05:27 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I didn't compare anyone to nazis. Read more better.
Learn English grammar
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Old 28th September 2021, 06:37 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Is there a valid reason not to?
If the potential consequences are someone losing their job, I'd practice a bit more skepticism than trusting an unidentified rando answering a leading question in a 30-second video clip.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Do you have evidence that the witness lied?
He needn't've lied to be incorrect.
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Old 29th September 2021, 12:31 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
If the potential consequences are someone losing their job, I'd practice a bit more skepticism than trusting an unidentified rando answering a leading question in a 30-second video clip.
So, that will be no then

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
He needn't've lied to be incorrect.
So, that will also be no then
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Old 29th September 2021, 04:29 AM   #96
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I'm sure the cancel culture pundits will be along any time now to condemn these racist and censorious groups going around trying to mass purge books from public schools:

Quote:
School books about Martin Luther King Jr. are too “divisive,” claims a conservative group at the center of a Tennessee book ban battle. A story about the astronomer Galileo Galilei is “anti-church.” A picture book about seahorses is too sexy.

As the school year resumes, simmering fights over school books have returned to a boil. In some schools, like in Pennsylvania’s Central York School District this week, students have beaten back bans on books about racism. But elsewhere, like in Tennessee’s Williamson County School District, the battle is ongoing, bolstered by new state laws that ban the teaching of certain race-related topics. At the heart of that fight is a conservative group, led by a private-school parent, that has a sprawling list of complaints against common classroom books. Many of the books are about race, but other targets include dragons, sad little owls, and hurricanes.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-ri...luther-king-jr
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Old 29th September 2021, 04:35 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
....snip...
What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.
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Old 29th September 2021, 04:40 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.
Don't be unfair, let's hear what the gentleman wearing a "Right Wing Death Squad" patch on his combat gear while menacing people in the public square has to say before we judge.
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Old 29th September 2021, 06:05 AM   #99
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Let's wait for Bari Weiss to have this cancelled academic on her substack.

Quote:
ISRAELI DIPLOMAT PRESSURED UNC TO REMOVE TEACHER WHO CRITICIZED ISRAEL
An Israeli consul general baselessly accused a graduate student of antisemitism and said she shouldn’t teach a course on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

THIS AUGUST, Israeli consular officials in the southeast U.S. arranged meetings with a dean at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill to discuss a graduate student teaching a course on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. According to two UNC professors with knowledge of the meetings, who asked for anonymity for fear of retribution, the Israeli official accused the Ph.D. student of antisemitism and said she was unfit to teach the course.
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/28/...demic-freedom/
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Old 29th September 2021, 06:16 AM   #100
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Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.
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Old 29th September 2021, 06:28 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.
It's hard to gauge, but I generally get the impression that these hilariously obtuse arguments simply don't have the sway they used to. Even people who might be squeamish about more overt types of antifascism increasingly recognize that these defense of fascists in the name of civility and free speech are moronic and/or extremely misguided.

Pearl clutching doesn't work like it used to, at least to my estimation.
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Old 29th September 2021, 06:29 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.
Yep.

Apparently if you say a Nazi is a bad person you are going to start shooting grannies for telling their grandson they are the most handsome kid in the world.
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Old 29th September 2021, 06:32 AM   #103
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Interesting piece, and some refreshing honesty here for someone who has a job on legacy media.

Quote:
"'Great replacement theory' gets people killed and yet you now have Tucker Carlson defending it, promoting it, mainstreaming it. And elected Republicans are now following in his footsteps."

My deep dive into 'great replacement theory.'
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...09509711130630

We don't have to pretend we don't know how this kind of rhetoric ends. Carlson and his fans are ethnonationalists and fascists and they are dangerous. Cancelling them, if possible, seems like an incredibly positive solution. More likely a good bit of blood is going to be spilt first, but such are the wages for ignoring the dangers of an increasingly reactionary and radicalized right in this country.

The fascist threat in this country (and abroad) is a 'all hands on deck' emergency. Those downplaying the danger they face are carrying water for those that desire to commit genocide, and it is becoming increasingly noncredible that they don't know it the longer this goes on.
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Old 29th September 2021, 06:36 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So, that will be no then
Not exactly, no.

You seem to want someone sacked on the word of a random person on the street, someone who didn't say whether he was assenting to a paraphrased version or an exact quotation. This is witch hunt mentality, no time to stop and get the facts straight.

The idea of people wanting other people to stay in their own neighborhoods isn't unusual or necessarily related to racial animus. In the Ĺ sq. mi. where I live we've two distinct neighborhoods, Trails (Original) and Trails North. They've got different neighborhood associations and amenities, and sometimes people get in a tizzy when folks go from one to the other to use facilities which their HOA doesn't support or maintain. I doubt anyone would say "back to your hood" (hardly anyone around here listens to Pooh Shiesty) but the sentiment is basically the same.
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Old 29th September 2021, 06:40 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Says the person comparing others to nazis.
But of course never calls the white supremacists, holocaust deniers and the like nazis for some reason.
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Old 29th September 2021, 09:22 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.
Sure. How do you propose to limit the torches and pitchforks to ONLY self-declared nazis?

Are there other beliefs that you find odious enough to advocate for extrajudicial punishments?
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Old 29th September 2021, 09:25 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Interesting piece, and some refreshing honesty here for someone who has a job on legacy media.



https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...09509711130630

We don't have to pretend we don't know how this kind of rhetoric ends. Carlson and his fans are ethnonationalists and fascists and they are dangerous. Cancelling them, if possible, seems like an incredibly positive solution. More likely a good bit of blood is going to be spilt first, but such are the wages for ignoring the dangers of an increasingly reactionary and radicalized right in this country.

The fascist threat in this country (and abroad) is a 'all hands on deck' emergency. Those downplaying the danger they face are carrying water for those that desire to commit genocide, and it is becoming increasingly noncredible that they don't know it the longer this goes on.
Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?
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Old 29th September 2021, 09:30 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?
Since you're so sharp at reading murderous intent in a statement, what do you make of Tucker Carlson preaching that ethnic replacement is a dire threat to this country?
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Old 29th September 2021, 09:34 AM   #109
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"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...
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Old 29th September 2021, 09:37 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...
To be fair, doing nothing while this country slips into fascism would be very orderly. Sure, there would be state and political violence at mass scale, but it would be organized and only happen to those that broke the rules. After a while you wouldn't even notice the things you lost.

Doing anything to stop this would be awfully noisy and chaotic, and we can't have that.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:11 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...
It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy2 in addition to being wrong2.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:18 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Since you're so sharp at reading murderous intent in a statement, what do you make of Tucker Carlson preaching that ethnic replacement is a dire threat to this country?
You're going to have to provide a link with full context before I can opine in any way.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:19 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy2 in addition to being wrong2.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:22 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.
Yeah, that sounds bad. Maybe us good people should decide we don't want to associate with such bad actors. Maybe we should identify and ostracize all these people wanting to commit political based murders. Probably be a good idea to raise a stink whenever some ghoul went of TV advocating a policy of ethnic cleansing.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:24 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.
You'll need to provide a link showing where murdering fascists is being suggested as a solution. I just haven't seen it here.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:31 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Oh ah... the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plans. A stitch in time saves 9. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. A watched pot never boils.

Stopping a wrong is not wrong, so you don't have to factor it into some thought terminating truism.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:47 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy2 in addition to being wrong2.
Not to beat this drum yet again but this also sounds a lot like the "I can't ignore you engaging the troll, so you have to ignore the troll" thing which I can't stand.

This fits in well with my observation that among this... type of people it's seen as better to have no standards (intellectual, moral, ethical, legal, whatever) then it is have standards and commit the Cardinal Sin of not living up to a 100% strawman, super-literal, no accounting for context version of them.

Here's how their thought process seems to works.

1. Someone tells them anything. This triggers the "How dare you tell me what to think!" subroutine. The idea that someone else has given them information they don't have offends them on a deep level and it drives them crazy. So much of their personal identity is wrapped up in "thinking for themselves" that they have started to actively rejected external information.

2. They immediately start looking for reasons the other person is a "hypocrite." And the way they do this is take the person's values, create a hyper-strawman version of them, find an incident where the person didn't live up to that version of their "standards.

For instance. AOC is actually pretty poor for a member of Congress, but she does make a halfway decent living, drives a fairly nice car, stuff like that. I mean just living in DC is goddamn expensive so I'm sure on a literal level she does throw around more money than average. But AOC is pretty far on the Left and speaks out a lot on class and wage disparity and the ultrawealthy. So the fact that AOC drives a Tesla means she's a... HYPOCRITE while a Republican Congressman worth many, many times more isn't. She is demonized for having standards. If you don't have standards you can never be a hypocrite, never be pretentious, never have to be taken down a peg, can't ever be "not as smart as you think you are" and all those other faults that these people focus on. The only sin you can commit to these people is aiming high and not making it. Wallow in the gutter and you can never let anyone down.

Now me, I operate much more on the "The pot can call the kettle black and the kettle can still be black" side of things. Hypocrisy is certainly an annoying personal trait but it doesn't override actual facts. Not matter the pot and kettles opinion of each other's blackness the RGB and Luminosity values of said pot and said kettle are verifiable facts that exist indendenatly. If I point a DataColor ColorReader at the pot and it returns an RGB value of #000000 the pot is black and the kettle's opinion is no longer needed or matters. The pot, the kettle, or anyone else can be hypocritical about the color of the pot or kettle they want, the facts don't change.

A person who says global warming is a problem and drives a nice car is STILL ******* CORRECT THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS A PROBLEM. Class Disparage isn't not a thing just because AOC doesn't live in a cardboard box and take the bus.

This is why discussions with them always have to take place in some fantasy world they are making up. They never want to discuss events as they actually happened but alternate timelines they are making up in the brain where they can control all the variables.

That's why we have a dozen threads at random point on this board where there's one person who on top of a hill going "If you ignore all the reasons I'm wrong and judge my argument solely on my alternative universe version of events then you'll have to admit I'm right."
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:58 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Sure. How do you propose to limit the torches and pitchforks to ONLY self-declared nazis?

Are there other beliefs that you find odious enough to advocate for extrajudicial punishments?
Extrajudicial? What on earth are you getting confused about now?
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Old 29th September 2021, 11:00 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?
Nope that is what anyone saying they are a Nazi is advocating for, that is why it should be illegal to be a Nazi, it is like any other terrorist ideology.

It is not being fascist to resist those trying to murder your fellow citizens.
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Old 29th September 2021, 11:01 AM   #120
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Again one day, God willing, I will find a woman who loves me as much as Internet Free Speech Advocates love Nazis.

You will get fewer Free Speech Advocates to run screeching out of the woodwork at you if you actually go "I'm against Free Speech" then you will if you are against Nazis.
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