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Old 27th September 2021, 04:40 AM   #1
SuburbanTurkey
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Teen "rolling coal" crashes into group of cyclists, hospitalizes 4

Quote:
A group of Houston area cyclists are hospitalized after getting hit by a pickup truck in Waller County Saturday morning.

According the Waller County Sheriff, 6 cyclists were hit by the vehicle along old 290, roughly 2 miles west of Waller. In total, four of the cyclists had to be taken to area hospitals, including 2 by helicopter.

...

Roughly 75 miles into their training ride, Ferrell says a black diesel pickup truck slowed down near him and accelerated to blow smoke in his lane. Moments later, the pickup trick tried doing the same thing to other cyclists riding ahead of Ferrell.

"The reason he couldn’t stop is because he was accelerating to blow more diesel fuel on these cyclists," said Ferrell. "He ended up hitting 3 people before his brakes even started."
2 of the 4 were life flighted out via emergency helicopter.

No arrest as of yet of the 16 year old driver who remained at the scene. Apparently intentional reckless driving resulting in serious injury is not a crime.

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/pi...e-hospitalized
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Old 27th September 2021, 04:42 AM   #2
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This infuriates me. That they let him walk is the worst. I’m hoping pressure from media reports 0eads to charges but I doubt it. If you want to kill someone and get away scot free, use your car.
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Old 27th September 2021, 05:06 AM   #3
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Well, presumably he's still liable for damages.
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Old 27th September 2021, 05:11 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
This infuriates me. That they let him walk is the worst. I’m hoping pressure from media reports 0eads to charges but I doubt it. If you want to kill someone and get away scot free, use your car.
What's frustrating in the US is that manslaughter is basically legal if you use a car and just say it was an accident. Often killer drivers walk away with little more than a traffic ticket.

This case may be different because there's witnesses to say the driver was engaging in willfully dangerous driving, but even then there's a decent chance there's no meaningful criminal consequences.
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Old 27th September 2021, 05:17 AM   #5
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It's Texas. He will get a medal and a statue in his honour.
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Old 27th September 2021, 05:36 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It's Texas. He will get a medal and a statue in his honour.
Yeah, and he'll set up a GoFundMe for defending against charges that never manifest. The Kyle Rittenhouse of the aggressive driver set.
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Old 27th September 2021, 05:58 AM   #7
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Boys will be boys. Why do you want to ruin this kid’s life over a simple mistake?
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:12 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Boys will be boys. Why do you want to ruin this kid’s life over a simple mistake?
"Simple mistake"?! Are you being serious or did you miss a sarcasm-smiley?
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:25 AM   #9
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I get how he was blowing smoke. Not clear on how he got up on the group of 6 cyclists, who were presumably moving fast and on the shoulder, without seeing them.

One cyclist said he couldn't stop because he was accelerating to blow the cloud. Not really. You can stop even when flooring it, as long as someone is not like a foot and a half off your front bumper. That would suggest he was already lined up and intentionally in position to mow down the 6 in front of him, and did not try to stop.
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get how he was blowing smoke. Not clear on how he got up on the group of 6 cyclists, who were presumably moving fast and on the shoulder, without seeing them.

One cyclist said he couldn't stop because he was accelerating to blow the cloud. Not really. You can stop even when flooring it, as long as someone is not like a foot and a half off your front bumper. That would suggest he was already lined up and intentionally in position to mow down the 6 in front of him, and did not try to stop.
Another possibility is that he lost control of his truck when flooring it to produce smoke. "Rolling Coal" incentives the dangerous driver to pass closely and floor it while immediately next to the intended victim, so there would be very little time to recover from a loss of control.

A truck driving in rear wheel drive will fishtail if you accelerate hard enough, especially if the truck bed is not loaded with any weight.
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:28 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get how he was blowing smoke. Not clear on how he got up on the group of 6 cyclists, who were presumably moving fast and on the shoulder, without seeing them.

One cyclist said he couldn't stop because he was accelerating to blow the cloud. Not really. You can stop even when flooring it, as long as someone is not like a foot and a half off your front bumper. That would suggest he was already lined up and intentionally in position to mow down the 6 in front of him, and did not try to stop.
*shrug* he might have been. He was obviously looking to intimidate and harass these people for having the ******* audacity to ride bikes out in the public. Lets not pretend like he's dealing with a full deck. It usually seems like something you'd do to impress some friends, but it sounds like he was alone.

This kid just sounds like a piece of ****. A stupid piece of **** actually.
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:40 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get how he was blowing smoke. Not clear on how he got up on the group of 6 cyclists, who were presumably moving fast and on the shoulder, without seeing them.

One cyclist said he couldn't stop because he was accelerating to blow the cloud. Not really. You can stop even when flooring it, as long as someone is not like a foot and a half off your front bumper. That would suggest he was already lined up and intentionally in position to mow down the 6 in front of him, and did not try to stop.
He saw them, hence the entire purpose of blowing smoke.

"Roughly 75 miles into their training ride, Ferrell says a black diesel pickup truck slowed down near him and accelerated to blow smoke in his lane. Moments later, the pickup trick tried doing the same thing to other cyclists riding ahead of Ferrell.

"The reason he couldn’t stop is because he was accelerating to blow more diesel fuel on these cyclists," said Ferrell. "He ended up hitting 3 people before his brakes even started.""

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/pi...e-hospitalized
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:42 AM   #13
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I'm thinking in terms of how to pin a substantial chargable offense on him. Even fishtailing, the cyclists had to be just a few feet in front of him when he punched it. The little **** needs to go down for this.
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:44 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He saw them, hence the entire purpose of blowing smoke.

"Roughly 75 miles into their training ride, Ferrell says a black diesel pickup truck slowed down near him and accelerated to blow smoke in his lane. Moments later, the pickup trick tried doing the same thing to other cyclists riding ahead of Ferrell.

"The reason he couldn’t stop is because he was accelerating to blow more diesel fuel on these cyclists," said Ferrell. "He ended up hitting 3 people before his brakes even started.""

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/pi...e-hospitalized
But the serious crime stems from who was in front of him, not behind. The witnesses didn't say he was riding up on their back wheels.
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:50 AM   #15
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Why didn't the cyclist just pedal faster? Why is nobody asking that question?
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get how he was blowing smoke. Not clear on how he got up on the group of 6 cyclists, who were presumably moving fast and on the shoulder, without seeing them.

One cyclist said he couldn't stop because he was accelerating to blow the cloud. Not really. You can stop even when flooring it, as long as someone is not like a foot and a half off your front bumper. That would suggest he was already lined up and intentionally in position to mow down the 6 in front of him, and did not try to stop.
I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to say here.

I very much doubt there was much time that elapsed between a driver engaging in knowingly reckless driving and when they lost control of the vehicle and crashed.

The whole point of "rolling coal" is to pass dangerously close to be obnoxious while revving the engine. A minor error in this risky maneuver could easily account for this crash, assuming it was not intentional. This could have gone from hot-dogging like an ******* to a crash much faster than the driver had time to react to.
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Old 27th September 2021, 06:53 AM   #17
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YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:03 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to say here.

I very much doubt there was much time that elapsed between a driver engaging in knowingly reckless driving and when they lost control of the vehicle and crashed.

The whole point of "rolling coal" is to pass dangerously close to be obnoxious while revving the engine. A minor error in this risky maneuver could easily account for this crash, assuming it was not intentional. This could have gone from hot-dogging like an ******* to a crash much faster than the driver had time to react to.
Put yourself in the situation. The witnesses describe what the little punk had done previously with blowing fumes. None said "he put himself between our group and another that was 30 feet in front of us". It sounds like he was more intentionally riding up on the 6 victims than blowing coal on a pack behind him. A different, and more chargeable, douchebaggery.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:20 AM   #19
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Maybe saw a groups of riders. Slowed and then accelerated to blow smoke on them. Was then looking in the mirrors of over his shoulder to see them get smoked out and didn't notice that he was now aligned to run into the next little group.


Which is nowhere near a defense of the guy, even if it does suggest a mechanism by which he hit them by "accident". At best, it was an accident borne of willful recklessness arising from malice.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:22 AM   #20
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It's a dead point since there doesn't seem to be any push to charge the kid.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:29 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Put yourself in the situation. The witnesses describe what the little punk had done previously with blowing fumes. None said "he put himself between our group and another that was 30 feet in front of us". It sounds like he was more intentionally riding up on the 6 victims than blowing coal on a pack behind him. A different, and more chargeable, douchebaggery.
A lot of these diesel trucks have exhaust pipes that point to the right, rather than back, making it possible to spew exhaust smoke at people while passing.

Quote:
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:35 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
A lot of these diesel trucks have exhaust pipes that point to the right, rather than back, making it possible to spew exhaust smoke at people while passing.
Right, but that is still what happened to guys behind him. I'm concerned with how he got that close to a pack ahead of him.

Is it so 'out there' to think he was concurrently committing a different intimidation, ie punching the gas right on their rear wheels to intimidate the 6 victims, and that's where he actually lost control?
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Right, but that is still what happened to guys behind him. I'm concerned with how he got that close to a pack ahead of him.

Is it so 'out there' to think he was concurrently committing a different intimidation, ie punching the gas right on their rear wheels to intimidate the 6 victims, and that's where he actually lost control?
Is it? You seem to be reading a lot of specific details of the driver's behavior I'm not seeing in the article.

The person quoted seems quite convinced that the driver's intended goal was to spray the cyclists with smoke, not whatever it is you're suggesting (which I'm still not quite clear on)
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:47 AM   #24
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I'll wait for a more detailed report before commenting more, but it seems to me like you can injure someone with the side of a truck too, not only with the front. It doesn't take a lot to tip a cyclist over.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:48 AM   #25
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Hell I don't see what difference it makes if he didn't so much as graze the cyclists and it was just his cloud of smoke that caused them to wipe out.

But distinctions without difference will be made and hills will be found to die defending.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:49 AM   #26
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This article appears to have a picture taken at the scene. I'm assuming from the damage to the truck that he was directly behind the bicycles when he hit them. New truck, spoiled 16 year old kid, has no reason to think of anyone but himself.

Looks like the kid is getting the benefit of the doubt because he stayed on the scene. Small town outside of Houston, I'd be shocked if anything happens to him. His daddy might be pissed that he ****** up the truck though. Here's a tweet with some pics in it too.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:50 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Is it? You seem to be reading a lot of specific details of the driver's behavior I'm not seeing in the article.

The person quoted seems quite convinced that the driver's intended goal was to spray the cyclists with smoke, not whatever it is you're suggesting (which I'm still not quite clear on)
Yes. The interviewed cyclist quoted says it was all about blowing coal.

The interviewer goes on to say that the driver continued doing this to others. The cyclist says he heard brakes and screaming. What this suggests is he was not a witness, or was at least pretty far away and actually saw nothing.

Would be kind of nice to hear from this group he was rolling coal on right behind the struck cyclists, yes?

See, the whole rolling coal thing has nothing to do with anything, really. It's about a kid that put his truck right on the back tires of a group and floored it. We literally do not even know that there was a group he was blowing fumes on; it's just assumed because he had done so before.

You accuse me of reading into the story. I would say the same to others here.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:53 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
I'll wait for a more detailed report before commenting more, but it seems to me like you can injure someone with the side of a truck too, not only with the front. It doesn't take a lot to tip a cyclist over.
He didn't "tip" any cyclists over, lol. He straight up ran them over. Look at the pictures of the truck, it wasn't a low-speed affair. He didn't accidentally "nudge" one of these cyclists. There's a video in the thread of him steaming by them, blowing smoke at a different point as well.

I agree, wait for as detailed a report as makes you comfortable with making a decision, but this kid deserves to be on his way to jail. He's a moron. He was harassing cyclists who were doing nothing other than minding their own business.

ETA: You ******* rear-end another car on a highway\road like that, and it's considered your fault. I can't imagine what rationale is being used here.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:59 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post

See, the whole rolling coal thing has nothing to do with anything, really. It's about a kid that put his truck right on the back tires of a group and floored it. We literally do not even know that there was a group he was blowing fumes on; it's just assumed because he had done so before.
I'm still not seeing anything in the reports or other articles that would give you such certainty for this statement.

It's entirely possible that the driver decided to escalate to deliberate ramming, but you seem quite certain of this for some reason.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:00 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
He didn't "tip" any cyclists over, lol. He straight up ran them over. Look at the pictures of the truck, it wasn't a low-speed a fair. He didn't accidentally "nudge" one of these cyclists. There's a video in the thread of him steaming by them, blowing smoke at a different point as well.

I agree, wait for as detailed a report as makes you comfortable with making a decision, but this kid deserves to be on his way to jail. He's a moron. He was harassing cyclists who were doing nothing other than minding their own business.

ETA: You ******* rear-end another car on a highway\road like that, and it's considered your fault. I can't imagine what rationale is being used here.
Wait, what? Where? I only see generic video found on YT in the tweets
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:02 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Wait, what? Where? I only see generic video found on YT in the tweets
Oh yeah, maybe I didn't understand it right. Appears to be the exact same style of truck. I digress.

My point still stands, the video makes no difference to my overall point.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:13 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm still not seeing anything in the reports or other articles that would give you such certainty for this statement.

It's entirely possible that the driver decided to escalate to deliberate ramming, but you seem quite certain of this for some reason.
No. What I am fairly certain of is that based on the available reporting, the rolling coal had nothing to do with anything. It's supremely dickish and dangerous, of course, but irrelevant here.

The only part relevant here is putting the bumper on a pack of fast cyclists and punching it. Remember, these riders were training for an Ironman. Not exactly casual weekenders on a mountain bike Sunday sight-see ride.

And I drive a 350 super duty. Very low geared at cycling speeds. Not exactly a Maserati that lurches out of control like a cobra.

All of the reporting is coming from the cyclist Ferrell, who evidently didn't see anything. We have no reported group having coal rolled on them when the accident happened. Just reports that he was doing so earlier. No reports at all of the punk riding up on rear wheels, which seems to be what actually caused the accident.

But not much to discuss here. Just thought it was interesting how blanks get filled in when something obnoxiously relatable like 'rolling coal' gets thrown in. The sad story is about what happened in front, not behind. And the bitch should be in a cell right now.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:14 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No. What I am fairly certain of is that based on the available reporting, the rolling coal had nothing to do with anything. It's supremely dickish and dangerous, of course, but irrelevant here.

The only part relevant here is putting the bumper on a pack of fast cyclists and punching it. Remember, these riders were training for an Ironman. Not exactly casual weekenders on a mountain bike Sunday sight-see ride.

And I drive a 350 super duty. Very low geared at cycling speeds. Not exactly a Maserati that lurches out of control like a cobra.

All of the reporting is coming from the cyclist Ferrell, who evidently didn't see anything. We have no reported group having coal rolled on them when the accident happened. Just reports that he was doing so earlier. No reports at all of the punk riding up on rear wheels, which seems to be what actually caused the accident.

But not much to discuss here. Just thought it was interesting how blanks get filled in when something obnoxiously relatable like 'rolling coal' gets thrown in. The sad story is about what happened in front, not behind. And the bitch should be in a cell right now.
Even if you're right, "rolling coal" has a lot to do with it on account of that's at least how this driver's aggression first started. Perhaps it escalated from there, perhaps not, but it's clearly relevant.

I don't really see how the cyclist's speed or athleticism really matters. A slow casual rider vs a racer is very little distinction to a truck that easily dwarfs any man-powered bike.

Even if they were sprinting at 30mph, that's nothing compared to a truck.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:18 AM   #34
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I would guess that no one bothered to check if any illegal modifications had been made to the truck to roll coal.

Some things are illegal, even in Texas.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:20 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What I am fairly certain of is that based on the available reporting, the rolling coal had nothing to do with anything. It's supremely dickish and dangerous, of course, but irrelevant here...
Well, if the kid thought it was funny to blast diesel smoke at a bunch of cyclists, it's not a big stretch to suspect his attention was on the effect he could see in his rear view mirror while accelerating hard, which sounds like a recipe for running into whoever is in front of you.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:27 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Well, if the kid thought it was funny to blast diesel smoke at a bunch of cyclists, it's not a big stretch to suspect his attention was on the effect he could see in his rear view mirror while accelerating hard, which sounds like a recipe for running into whoever is in front of you.
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking as well. If you look at the "example video" in the tweet I linked to, you can see that the truck blowing smoke in their faces is accelerating quickly. I'm assuming to get the smoke in front of them to make them ride into it (the acceleration also produces more smoke). The video also shows the driver then getting in front of the them, on the shoulder of the road, to make them ride in it longer.

My guess, if I were to throw one out, is that he blasted a bunch of smoke at the cyclists, then got in front of themish to let the rest of the exhaust linger in front of them, while watching it in his rearview mirror. He wasn't paying attention, didn't slow down, and ran over a bunch of people and cycles.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:30 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Even if you're right, "rolling coal" has a lot to do with it on account of that's at least how this driver's aggression first started. Perhaps it escalated from there, perhaps not, but it's clearly relevant.
See, that's the thing: it's not relevant. It is backgound fluff to show he was definitely being an obnoxious *******. It has dead zero to do with mowing other bikers down, which is quite literally 180 degrees away from exhaust fumes.

It would only be relevant if there was an actual group he was actively doing it to when he struck the 6 cyclists. Even then, the problem is still at the front of the truck, not behind it. He put the bumper on the bikers rear tires and punched.

Quote:
I don't really see how the cyclist's speed or athleticism really matters. A slow casual rider vs a racer is very little distinction to a truck that easily dwarfs any man-powered bike.

Even if they were sprinting at 30mph, that's nothing compared to a truck.
It had to do with what I said it had to do with. They were not stationary on the shoulder, which is more understandable for striking. they were moving in the same direction as the truck, and probably pretty fast. It takes some work to put your truck on their rear wheels and run them down.

For instance, do you seriously think the 350 started fishtailing at a 30mph pace, as you suggested earlier? You think this diesel pickup was The Pace Car at Daytona or something?
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:35 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
For instance, do you seriously think the 350 started fishtailing at a 30mph pace, as you suggested earlier? You think this diesel pickup was The Pace Car at Daytona or something?
So you're implying that he wasn't paying attention to anyone behind him at all? He purposefully pulled up behind these bikers, "put his bumper on their tires" and then purposefully sped up and ran them over?

Am I getting that right? Because that is not at all what I'm understanding from any version of the story I've read. It sounds like he was ******* around, not paying attention, and ran into the group in front of him, while gassing out the people behind him. I don't think anyone is implying that a Ford 350 was fishtailing lol, that's asinine. Just that he wasn't paying attention and didn't slow down after speeding up to gas out the cyclists behind his truck.

Which, if Occam's razor is a thing, seems to be the best explanation to me.
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Last edited by plague311; 27th September 2021 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:46 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
So you're implying that he wasn't paying attention to anyone behind him at all? He purposefully pulled up behind these bikers, "put his bumper on their tires" and then purposefully sped up and ran them over?

Am I getting that right? Because that is not at all what I'm understanding from any version of the story I've read. It sounds like he was ******* around, not paying attention, and ran into the group in front of him, while gassing out the people behind him. I don't think anyone is implying that a Ford 350 was fishtailing lol, that's asinine. Just that he wasn't paying attention and didn't slow down after speeding up to gas out the cyclists behind his truck.

Which, if Occam's razor is a thing, seems to be the best explanation to me.
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Another possibility is that he lost control of his truck when flooring it to produce smoke. "Rolling Coal" incentives the dangerous driver to pass closely and floor it while immediately next to the intended victim, so there would be very little time to recover from a loss of control.

A truck driving in rear wheel drive will fishtail if you accelerate hard enough, especially if the truck bed is not loaded with any weight.
Take it up with ST.

Again, not much to talk about till we get an actual witness to what actually happened.Till then, I see the story as "******* kid hits cyclists", not "One of those Conservatives are killing people again!"
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:50 AM   #40
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I hadn't looked at the image that closely, but the damage on the front makes my speculation about fishtailing seem less plausible.
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