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Old 27th September 2021, 08:52 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Well, presumably he's still liable for damages.
Yeah. When I got hit, I had to sue the driver's insurance company, which hired a team of hotshot lawyers who probably cost more than the claim, throwing spurious questions and counterclaims into the process, which ended up taking three years, ending in a mediated settlement that didn't do much more than pay my hospital bills, despite permanent visual and nerve damage and...well, you get the idea.

If the insurance in that state is no-fault, at least the time should be shorter, but in a situation like that I think criminal action should be following. Goodbye license and goodbye truck. Spend a couple of years shoveling real coal.

I disagree with Thermal on this. At least if I understand what he's saying. It seems clear from the account that this driver purposely initiated an aggressive and abusive act toward the cyclists. Pulling ahead of a group and "rolling coal" is by itself an act of unwarranted aggression, and the finer details of just what happened next are, I think, not very relevant, any more than arguing whether an armed robber's gun fired by accident. It's all one incident.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:54 AM   #42
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//Spitballing//

If the little snot pulled this kind of stunt routinely, the front end damage could have been from a previous incident or the truck just had a messed up front end from a totally unrelated bumperthumper/accident/whatevs.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:56 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Yeah. When I got hit, I had to sue the driver's insurance company, which hired a team of hotshot lawyers who probably cost more than the claim, throwing spurious questions and counterclaims into the process, which ended up taking three years, ending in a mediated settlement that didn't do much more than pay my hospital bills, despite permanent visual and nerve damage and...well, you get the idea.

If the insurance in that state is no-fault, at least the time should be shorter, but in a situation like that I think criminal action should be following. Goodbye license and goodbye truck. Spend a couple of years shoveling real coal.

I disagree with Thermal on this. At least if I understand what he's saying. It seems clear from the account that this driver purposely initiated an aggressive and abusive act toward the cyclists. Pulling ahead of a group and "rolling coal" is by itself an act of unwarranted aggression, and the finer details of just what happened next are, I think, not very relevant, any more than arguing whether an armed robber's gun fired by accident. It's all one incident.
Blasting fumes on cyclists behind you is a jerkwad thing to do. It happens all day, every day.

Running over a pack of cyclists from behind is actually a separate, much more rare, and unrelated thing.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:58 AM   #44
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I agree murder/homicide charges would possibly not stick, but to claim no charge can be made is a farce.

Manslaughter in the 2nd degree.

"Intent" is irrelevant to manslaughter charges.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:58 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I agree murder/homicide charges would possibly not stick, but to claim no charge can be made is a farce.

Manslaughter in the 2nd degree.

"Intent" is irrelevant to manslaughter charges.
as of yet, nobody died.
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Old 27th September 2021, 08:59 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I agree murder/homicide charges would possibly not stick, but to claim no charge can be made is a farce.

Manslaughter in the 2nd degree.

"Intent" is irrelevant to manslaughter charges.
Except no one is dead.

Eta: at a minimum, though: reckless endangerment, criminal negligence...hell, can a brother get an Improper Overhead Passing charge in here?
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Old 27th September 2021, 09:00 AM   #47
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See this is the problem of the bikers not using their second amendment rights to defend themselves aggressively from the assaults by the truck. They should have opened fire on him so that he couldn't run over the other cyclists. So really it is all the cyclists fault, like it was all really Botham Jean fault for not opening fire fast enough when someone kicked in his door.
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Old 27th September 2021, 09:05 AM   #48
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Whoops.

Same concept for injury to others is "reckless endangerment."

In Texas, "Deadly Conduct," a class A misdemeanor.

ETA: I guess that only covers use of firearms.

Okay, note to self: (continue to) stay away from Texas.

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Old 27th September 2021, 09:46 AM   #49
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We have to get these packs of bicyclists off of the road, they are a menace to Texas society.
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Old 27th September 2021, 10:12 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Blasting fumes on cyclists behind you is a jerkwad thing to do. It happens all day, every day.

Running over a pack of cyclists from behind is actually a separate, much more rare, and unrelated thing.
True enough that it happens often, and fortunately it usually does not result in crashes and injuries, but I still say it is the initiation of an aggressive action, and is not irrelevant to the end result.

Of course we don't know all that went on yet but it appears that whether by accident or on purpose, the attempt to repeat the first move resulted in a crash, and it's less relevant whether or not the mayhem was due solely to malicious intent or to the driver's woeful incompetence. His intent to do harm was announced from the start, even if he did not mean quite so much as he ended up doing.
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Old 27th September 2021, 12:15 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
We have to get these packs of bicyclists off of the road, they are a menace to Texas society.
Damn straight! There's plenty of desert, why can't they ride there?
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Old 27th September 2021, 02:20 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get how he was blowing smoke. Not clear on how he got up on the group of 6 cyclists, who were presumably moving fast and on the shoulder, without seeing them.

One cyclist said he couldn't stop because he was accelerating to blow the cloud. Not really. You can stop even when flooring it, as long as someone is not like a foot and a half off your front bumper. That would suggest he was already lined up and intentionally in position to mow down the 6 in front of him, and did not try to stop.
Not hard at all if you're looking in your rear view mirror to see the poor cyclists riding through your noxious cloud rather than watching where you are going.
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Old 28th September 2021, 02:19 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Maybe saw a groups of riders. Slowed and then accelerated to blow smoke on them. Was then looking in the mirrors of over his shoulder to see them get smoked out and didn't notice that he was now aligned to run into the next little group.
That's what happened. He was paying attention to the people next to/behind him to make sure they were suffering from his smoke, and not paying attention to what was going on in front of him. So he predictably drifted out of his lane and onto the shoulder, plowing into the cyclists ahead.
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Old 28th September 2021, 04:16 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Are you admitting something?
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Old 28th September 2021, 04:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Take it up with ST.

Again, not much to talk about till we get an actual witness to what actually happened.Till then, I see the story as "******* kid hits cyclists", not "One of those Conservatives are killing people again!"
Of course

It's never a right-winger doing something, it's a spoiled kid just being a spoiled kid (as in this case) or a mentally ill person being mentally ill (whenever there's a right winger on a shooting spree) or a demonstration which got a little out of hand (like Jan 6 or Charlottesville).
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Old 28th September 2021, 07:44 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Of course

It's never a right-winger doing something, it's a spoiled kid just being a spoiled kid (as in this case) or a mentally ill person being mentally ill (whenever there's a right winger on a shooting spree) or a demonstration which got a little out of hand (like Jan 6 or Charlottesville).
You're (willfully?) missing the point.

Some of us don't live and breathe political posturing every ever loving second of the day. When there is a news story, the headline need not indicate if an actor is black, or a conservative, or whatever, if it isn't relevant to the story.

This one isn't the best example, but it irks me anyway because of how overwhelming the political posturing has become (and I don't think many would deny that). It's just freaking everywhere.

I doubt seriously that a 16 yr old driving daddy's truck has refined political opinions. I'd assume he is more of a hick good ol' boy type who relishes being a twat, as many children do. So it would seem to me that this should be framed as a story of the recklessness of kids screwing around while driving. Seeing the 'rolling coal' (dogwhistle for Trumper or whatever) in the title just bugs me, after years of hearing the subtle, relentless political framing constantly. I get that it is a real minority opinion here. Oh well.
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Old 28th September 2021, 07:46 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You're (willfully?) missing the point.

Some of us don't live and breathe political posturing every ever loving second of the day. When there is a news story, the headline need not indicate if an actor is black, or a conservative, or whatever, if it isn't relevant to the story.

This one isn't the best example, but it irks me anyway because of how overwhelming the political posturing has become (and I don't think many would deny that). It's just freaking everywhere.

I doubt seriously that a 16 yr old driving daddy's truck has refined political opinions. I'd assume he is more of a hick good ol' boy type who relishes being a twat, as many children do. So it would seem to me that this should be framed as a story of the recklessness of kids screwing around while driving. Seeing the 'rolling coal' (dogwhistle for Trumper or whatever) in the title just bugs me, after years of hearing the subtle, relentless political framing constantly. I get that it is a real minority opinion here. Oh well.
Politics is downstream of culture. Especially for right wingers currently, where their politics are extremely light on policy and heavy on weird identarian nonsense.

Rich kid in a f350 blowing diesel fumes at cyclists in Texas, you don't have to take a leap of faith that he's not attending DSA meetings.
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Old 28th September 2021, 07:47 AM   #58
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I'm amazed at how much damage right wing politics has done to this country despite it not existing and nobody supporting them.
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:21 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Politics is downstream of culture. Especially for right wingers currently, where their politics are extremely light on policy and heavy on weird identarian nonsense.

Rich kid in a f350 blowing diesel fumes at cyclists in Texas, you don't have to take a leap of faith that he's not attending DSA meetings.
And by the same token, I have no reason to believe a 16 yr old is reviewing Republican budget proposals and tax incentive programs.

It's my meta argument on these fora: a lot of people don't give a rat's ass about politics, subscribing to the Mindless Machine theory. The social/cultural positions are more rubber-hitting-the-road for me. There will be a lot of intersectionality, but sometimes, as here, I don't think there is anything evidenced but a jerkoff kid. No, I don't think he has an Anarchy or Hammer and Sickle tat. Yes, I think he would blend right in at a Trumpster rally. That doesn't mean he has a political thought in his pretty little head, and I don't think a bunch of self-proclaimed skeptics should be shoving that on him.
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:23 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And by the same token, I have no reason to believe a 16 yr old is reviewing Republican budget proposals and tax incentive programs.

It's my meta argument on these fora: a lot of people don't give a rat's ass about politics, subscribing to the Mindless Machine theory. The social/cultural positions are more rubber-hitting-the-road for me. There will be a lot of intersectionality, but sometimes, as here, I don't think there is anything evidenced but a jerkoff kid. No, I don't think he has an Anarchy or Hammer and Sickle tat. Yes, I think he would blend right in at a Trumpster rally. That doesn't mean he has a political thought in his pretty little head, and I don't think a bunch of self-proclaimed skeptics should be shoving that on him.
Whether or not cyclists can use the roadways is a policy issue, thought it's often hard to see it this way given how ridiculous this "political" issue is often expressed in the real world.

Using your truck to run a bunch of cyclists off the road is an expression of a political identity.

"People that live differently than me are annoying and I'm going to be as obnoxious (or even dangerously violent) as possible as a response" is a pretty good distillation of the conservative id.
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:24 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That's what happened. He was paying attention to the people next to/behind him to make sure they were suffering from his smoke, and not paying attention to what was going on in front of him. So he predictably drifted out of his lane and onto the shoulder, plowing into the cyclists ahead.
Hot damn! An actual witness has come forth (the only interviewed witness, Ferrel, didn't actually see the incident)? Got a link for a brother?
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:28 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You're (willfully?) missing the point.

Some of us don't live and breathe political posturing every ever loving second of the day. When there is a news story, the headline need not indicate if an actor is black, or a conservative, or whatever, if it isn't relevant to the story.

This one isn't the best example, but it irks me anyway because of how overwhelming the political posturing has become (and I don't think many would deny that). It's just freaking everywhere.

I doubt seriously that a 16 yr old driving daddy's truck has refined political opinions. I'd assume he is more of a hick good ol' boy type who relishes being a twat, as many children do. So it would seem to me that this should be framed as a story of the recklessness of kids screwing around while driving. Seeing the 'rolling coal' (dogwhistle for Trumper or whatever) in the title just bugs me, after years of hearing the subtle, relentless political framing constantly. I get that it is a real minority opinion here. Oh well.
Like a 16 year old has enough money to buy an F350... no this is daddy's doing. He filled his sons head with the idea that cyclists are beneath them and deserve to get pollution sprayed on them. And he set his son up with a big truck and modifications to roll coal. And since his minor son did this, you can argue he deserves to be punished too.

And I agree, very few Trumpers have refined political opinions. Its just libruls r bad and govment can't tell me what to do but it can sure tell them libruls what to do though!.

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Old 28th September 2021, 08:31 AM   #63
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I'm sorry but what the **** is this?

"It's not their fault they hold wrong, stupid positions because they don't think about them all that much."

That's the new hill to die defending? Why a certain someone spends 99% of their time defending positions they claim they aren't defending and makes that our fault?
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:45 AM   #64
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So I'm wondering how on earth it can be legal to blow black smoke out of your truck, and Wikipedia tells me this.

Quote:
Texas

The Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) decommissioned its state-wide smoking vehicle reporting program.[50] Reports on smoking vehicles can still be made through the North Central Texas Regional Smoking Vehicle Program in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, which includes Collin, Dallas, Denton, Ellis, Erath, Hood, Hunt, Johnson, Kaufman, Navarro, Palo Pinto, Parker, Rockwall, Somervell, Tarrant, and Wise counties.[51]
I ride my bike a couple of thousand miles per year, and I've never seen or heard of this before, but I live in a big city not BFE Texas.
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:49 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You're (willfully?) missing the point.

Some of us don't live and breathe political posturing every ever loving second of the day. When there is a news story, the headline need not indicate if an actor is black, or a conservative, or whatever, if it isn't relevant to the story.

This one isn't the best example, but it irks me anyway because of how overwhelming the political posturing has become (and I don't think many would deny that). It's just freaking everywhere.

I doubt seriously that a 16 yr old driving daddy's truck has refined political opinions. I'd assume he is more of a hick good ol' boy type who relishes being a twat, as many children do. So it would seem to me that this should be framed as a story of the recklessness of kids screwing around while driving. Seeing the 'rolling coal' (dogwhistle for Trumper or whatever) in the title just bugs me, after years of hearing the subtle, relentless political framing constantly. I get that it is a real minority opinion here. Oh well.
How many Progressives "roll coal" ?

How many Progressives would deliberately target cyclists for antisocial behaviour ?

Of course the 16 year old child doesn't have refined political opinions - neither do the vast majority of Trump-enthralled MAGAites - it doesn't mean that the opinions they do express aren't cornerstones of the right-wing platform.
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:53 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And by the same token, I have no reason to believe a 16 yr old is reviewing Republican budget proposals and tax incentive programs.
I have no reason to believe that the majority of GOP representatives do. It would be unreasonable to expect a child to do so.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It's my meta argument on these fora: a lot of people don't give a rat's ass about politics, subscribing to the Mindless Machine theory. The social/cultural positions are more rubber-hitting-the-road for me. There will be a lot of intersectionality, but sometimes, as here, I don't think there is anything evidenced but a jerkoff kid. No, I don't think he has an Anarchy or Hammer and Sickle tat. Yes, I think he would blend right in at a Trumpster rally. That doesn't mean he has a political thought in his pretty little head, and I don't think a bunch of self-proclaimed skeptics should be shoving that on him.
If he aligns with right wing views and behaviours then to a first order approximation, and without evidence to the contrary, IMO its reasonable to conclude that he's a right-winger.

It it walks like a duck and so on.......
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:55 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I ride my bike a couple of thousand miles per year, and I've never seen or heard of this before, but I live in a big city not BFE Texas.
Last year I got back into road cycling and was shocked at the way in which some road users (a small minority) treat cyclists here in the UK.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:04 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
How many Progressives "roll coal" ?

How many Progressives would deliberately target cyclists for antisocial behaviour ?

Of course the 16 year old child doesn't have refined political opinions - neither do the vast majority of Trump-enthralled MAGAites - it doesn't mean that the opinions they do express aren't cornerstones of the right-wing platform.
See, you're still doing it, apparently unconsciously. Why is it necessarily a conservative/progressive dichotomy?

Rolling coal is the hillbilly equivalent of kicking sand in someone's face at the beach; a cheap power play for personal gratification. It's not political, although as I already said, you will surely find the coal-rollers at a Trumpster picnic, not at a Sanders rally.

But the point is that they are not necessarily political. some mother ******* just want to watch the world burn. Remember that pseudo journalist that was rioting in the BLM protests as well as the 1/6 Dildo Storm? That's the kind of people I think are much more largely representative than the forum assumes. To you guys, the planet is represented on a simple dichotomy. For some of us, the actual motivations are more important.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:06 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I have no reason to believe that the majority of GOP representatives do. It would be unreasonable to expect a child to do so.



If he aligns with right wing views and behaviours then to a first order approximation, and without evidence to the contrary, IMO its reasonable to conclude that he's a right-winger.

It it walks like a duck and so on.......
I would add that even if he deceives himself into believing he is apolitical, or if he's just too young or stupid to know what is what, if he supports it, he's in it.

As is so often the case, it seems, especially with right wingers and their apologists, bad behavior can be waved away by claiming, instead, incredible stupidity. Now one might consider that if he's really that dumb, perhaps he should not be let loose on the highways, especially with a diesel pickup truck. But in today's society, there's a disconnect.

I'm reminded of the old joke about a high school footballer who is disqualified because he says 2 + 2 =5. The coach replies, "Aw, let him play, he's only two off!"
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:08 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I have no reason to believe that the majority of GOP representatives do. It would be unreasonable to expect a child to do so.



If he aligns with right wing views and behaviours then to a first order approximation, and without evidence to the contrary, IMO its reasonable to conclude that he's a right-winger.

It it walks like a duck and so on.......
Again, that's it in a nutshell. I would conclude he's a jerkwad redneck, and nothing conclusive about his politics, other than if he has any at all, jerkwad rednecks are more likely to be conservative Republicans.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:08 AM   #71
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I had to look up what this rolling coal is.

Ye gods, some people are insane.

I'm glad once more I live in the Netherlands, where by the way the law is that in an accident between a car and a cyclist, the driver of the car is automatically at fault and thus responsible. Yes, this is even if the cyclist dumps himself in front of you, though a judge can shift responsibility in the light of evidence.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:20 AM   #72
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Yeh - nothing political about rolling coal -

"Rolling coal is a form of conspicuous air pollution, used for entertainment or as protest.[4] Some drivers intentionally trigger coal rolling in the presence of hybrid vehicles (when it is nicknamed "Prius repellent") to cause their drivers to lose sight of the road and inhale harmful air pollution. Coal rolling may also be directed at foreign vehicles, bicyclists, protesters, and pedestrians.[6][7][8][9] Practitioners cite "American freedom" and a stand against "rampant environmentalism" as reasons for coal rolling.[10][11]" - Wikipedia
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:28 AM   #73
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post 39 appears to be the first in this thread linking "conservative" and rolling coal. Oh look, that was Thermal's post!


Also, how do we make the leap to Ferrel (bicyclist interviewed) not being a true witness because of his mentioning of hearing screams, braking, and crunching? What, can we only use one of our senses at a time?! I dont see it mentioned anywhere that he didnt actually SEE what happened. He could conceivably been a few yards back, saw the truck hit these other people, but the sound of the collision may have left a big ass impression, and that is why that was mentioned in the story.

Last edited by gregthehammer; 28th September 2021 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:32 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
post 39 appears to be the first in this thread linking "conservative" and rolling coal. Oh look, that was Thermal's post!
HAHAHA

Oh yeah, it's just Thermal that makes that connection. Ya got me.

What do you make of Thermal also connecting rolling coal to being a hillbilly jerkwad? Does it mean the same thing to you, or are you on select-fire only?
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:41 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
HAHAHA

Oh yeah, it's just Thermal that makes that connection. Ya got me.

What do you make of Thermal also connecting rolling coal to being a hillbilly jerkwad? Does it mean the same thing to you, or are you on select-fire only?
I just found it amusing that you were the one that first brought politics into this thread, and then you got all sanctimonious about other posters talking about the politics of those who roll coal.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:50 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
I just found it amusing that you were the one that first brought politics into this thread, and then you got all sanctimonious about other posters talking about the politics of those who roll coal.
No, the dogwhistle title did. I just pointed to the undercurrent subtext. Which, as I'm sure you see, was right there on the tip of everyone's tongue.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:52 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
See, you're still doing it, apparently unconsciously. Why is it necessarily a conservative/progressive dichotomy?

Rolling coal is the hillbilly equivalent of kicking sand in someone's face at the beach; a cheap power play for personal gratification. It's not political, although as I already said, you will surely find the coal-rollers at a Trumpster picnic, not at a Sanders rally.

But the point is that they are not necessarily political. some mother ******* just want to watch the world burn. Remember that pseudo journalist that was rioting in the BLM protests as well as the 1/6 Dildo Storm? That's the kind of people I think are much more largely representative than the forum assumes. To you guys, the planet is represented on a simple dichotomy. For some of us, the actual motivations are more important.
The whole smoking out cyclists started as a right-wing YouTube virtue-signal. It has always been a political expression.

It is not, perhaps, the sign of a refined political mind, but it is and has always been an expression of contempt due to an American right-wing mind-set.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:55 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
post 39 appears to be the first in this thread linking "conservative" and rolling coal. Oh look, that was Thermal's post!


Also, how do we make the leap to Ferrel (bicyclist interviewed) not being a true witness because of his mentioning of hearing screams, braking, and crunching? What, can we only use one of our senses at a time?! I dont see it mentioned anywhere that he didnt actually SEE what happened. He could conceivably been a few yards back, saw the truck hit these other people, but the sound of the collision may have left a big ass impression, and that is why that was mentioned in the story.
Re: your edit. The interviewer said Ferrell was in a group farther behind, and the kid did this to other packs of cyclists ahead of him. Ferrel does not say he saw anything, least of all this invisible group that coal was being blown on while he hit the other 6, but only heard sounds.

When you see something and are interviewed about it, do you omit everything you saw and only describe what you heard? Does a journalist normally edit out the actual visible account, which would be viewed as eyewitness proof?
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:56 AM   #79
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Just to sum up where we are at.

We are being baited into having a sub-debate where we have to prove that it's not an unreasonable assumption that the person in Texas who drove the giant pickup truck into the bikers while coal rolling is "Right Wing."
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:57 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No, the dogwhistle title did. I just pointed to the undercurrent subtext. Which, as I'm sure you see, was right there on the tip of everyone's tongue.
Maybe I'm dense, but how is it a dogwhistle if that is what he was doing?
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