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Old 27th September 2021, 07:00 PM   #1
Bob001
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Driving while deaf

Deaf man spends four months in jail for not responding to cops' commands.
Quote:
When police in Idaho Springs, Colo., saw a vehicle roll through a stop sign on a September evening in 2019, they followed it into a laundromat’s parking lot and turned on their flashing lights.

The driver, Brady Mistic, parked his car and stepped out of the vehicle.

He later said he did not understand what was happening, or even that he was being pulled over — Mistic is deaf and communicates primarily through American Sign Language.

In the confusion, the situation escalated. According to a new lawsuit filed by Mistic, the officers threw him to the ground, stunned him with a Taser and put him in handcuffs. Unable to fully communicate, he tried to use some of the few words he is able to speak: “No ears.” It seemed to make no difference.

After the encounter, Mistic was charged with resisting arrest and assault on a police officer. He was jailed for four months, during which time he said he continued to struggle to communicate the misunderstanding. The charges were later dropped.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...police-arrest/
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:22 PM   #2
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These two buttholes belong in prison.
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Old 27th September 2021, 07:51 PM   #3
Bob001
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
These two buttholes belong in prison.
Not just them. He wasn't given an interpreter while he was in jail, and even had trouble getting pen and paper.
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Old 27th September 2021, 10:42 PM   #4
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“Mr. Mistic commonly communicates that he is deaf and that he needs to write to communicate by raising his hands, touching or covering his ears, and shaking his head ‘no’ and then mimicking the act of writing on a piece of paper. He has used this pantomimic language to communicate to police officers that he is deaf and needs to write to communicate during several ordinary traffic stops on occasions prior to this one.
This sounds like something from a Mel Brooks production.
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:12 PM   #5
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No, Mel Brooks makes comedies.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:27 PM   #6
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Not to belittle the horrific experience here, but I have a friend who is very hard of hearing (essentially deaf without hearing aids and lip reading together), and he has a sign he keeps prominent in the vehicle that indicates this. A good idea if you are in that position, I think. Of course that's only if the cops aren't too dumb and amped up into pre-emptive rage to read it.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Not to belittle the horrific experience here, but I have a friend who is very hard of hearing (essentially deaf without hearing aids and lip reading together), and he has a sign he keeps prominent in the vehicle that indicates this. A good idea if you are in that position, I think. Of course that's only if the cops aren't too dumb and amped up into pre-emptive rage to read it.
Right? Like, do you have any other options besides a "theatrical mime show" that might indicate your condition? This all sounds pretty far-fetched, and like just a money grab.

I picture the police stop going down like this, but without the audio:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Poor victim. They took him to a prison that was without pen and paper.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Right? Like, do you have any other options besides a "theatrical mime show" that might indicate your condition? This all sounds pretty far-fetched, and like just a money grab.
.....(
Why do you find this so amusing? You think maybe the cops should be sure about the facts before they assault somebody and lock him up? And nobody said the jail didn't have pen and paper, only that the jailers wouldn't provide it, or an interpreter.

And it's a recognized problem. Oregon, for one, allows "deaf" to be placed on the car's registration and the driver's license.
https://www.mailtribune.com/happenin...traffic-stops/
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Old 29th September 2021, 07:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Right? Like, do you have any other options besides a "theatrical mime show" that might indicate your condition? (
What would you do?

If you were deaf and could not speak, how would you communicate that to others? Assuming those you were attempting to communicate with didn't speak sign language, how would you communicate the need for pen and paper?

Bonus points: If you have a pen and paper in your pocket or in your car and reach to get it, they might shoot you.

Remember, you can't talk. You can't understand anything they say. They can't understand sign language. You can't reach for pen and paper until they understand that, maybe not even then or you'll get shot! Good luck!
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Old 29th September 2021, 07:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
What would you do?
He'd probably troll the cops.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:17 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why do you find this so amusing? You think maybe the cops should be sure about the facts before they assault somebody and lock him up? And nobody said the jail didn't have pen and paper, only that the jailers wouldn't provide it, or an interpreter.

And it's a recognized problem. Oregon, for one, allows "deaf" to be placed on the car's registration and the driver's license.
https://www.mailtribune.com/happenin...traffic-stops/
It's always funny when it's happening to someone else, especially someone traditionally in a position with less power and privilege than yourself.

Or, as the great philosopher Homer said: "It's funny 'cause it isn't me."
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Old 29th September 2021, 11:56 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why do you find this so amusing? You think maybe the cops should be sure about the facts before they assault somebody and lock him up? And nobody said the jail didn't have pen and paper, only that the jailers wouldn't provide it, or an interpreter.

And it's a recognized problem. Oregon, for one, allows "deaf" to be placed on the car's registration and the driver's license.
https://www.mailtribune.com/happenin...traffic-stops/
Look it is well known that cops are violent for little or no cause and startle easily and react with violence, so having notices and things like the Minnesota saftey bag to keep your licience and insurance information in so that the cops don't freak out when you are getting out what they just ordered you to get out.

Really they are best thought of an violent and panicking animals not some kind of professional.
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Old 29th September 2021, 12:32 PM   #13
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Driving is a privilage not a right;and, frankly, some physical disabilities should be grounds for denial of a driver's licence.
And don't get me started the whole issue of drunk driving, and how most states laws are way too lenient with intoxocated drivers.
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Old 29th September 2021, 12:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Not to belittle the horrific experience here, but I have a friend who is very hard of hearing (essentially deaf without hearing aids and lip reading together), and he has a sign he keeps prominent in the vehicle that indicates this. A good idea if you are in that position, I think. Of course that's only if the cops aren't too dumb and amped up into pre-emptive rage to read it.
Well, they approached him after he had left his vehicle and was making his way into the store, so such a sign likely would not likely have done any good in this case I think.
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Old 29th September 2021, 12:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Look it is well known that cops are violent for little or no cause and startle easily and react with violence, so having notices and things like the Minnesota saftey bag to keep your licience and insurance information in so that the cops don't freak out when you are getting out what they just ordered you to get out.

Really they are best thought of an violent and panicking animals not some kind of professional.
It is kind of hilarious, now that you mention it, that we talk about police interactions in terms identical to advice for dealing with dangerous wild animals, and that the police themselves have no problem with this framing and even encourage it.
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Old 29th September 2021, 01:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Driving is a privilage not a right;and, frankly, some physical disabilities should be grounds for denial of a driver's licence.
And don't get me started the whole issue of drunk driving, and how most states laws are way too lenient with intoxocated drivers.
Deaf people should be banned from driving because the cops are uncontrollably violent when people do not respond instantly to orders? That is a different take for sure.
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Old 29th September 2021, 01:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Driving is a privilage not a right;and, frankly, some physical disabilities should be grounds for denial of a driver's licence.
Are you saying being deaf should be a reason to refuse someone the privilege of driving? Why? What can or can't they do that anyone else can, behind the wheel? Most people listen to their music maxed out, or stare at their phones, or (as in my case) wear ear buds (when I'm on my motorcycle). What's the difference?

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And don't get me started the whole issue of drunk driving, and how most states laws are way too lenient with intoxocated drivers.
You appear to be able to get started all on your own.
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Old 29th September 2021, 01:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Deaf people should be banned from driving because the cops are uncontrollably violent when people do not respond instantly to orders? That is a different take for sure.
It's a common piece of advice that people should avoid even the appearance of impropriety, lest the layperson get the wrong idea about their intentions.

with cops, it's best to avoid even the appearance of not completely deferring to their total authority immediately. Contempt of the cop is the most serious crime there is, and this deaf man is guilty of appearing to commit it.
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Old 29th September 2021, 01:11 PM   #19
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For deaf people, the issue with the police isn't limited to driving. They could be sitting in their own back yard, and if they can't hear orders being barked at them, they're resisting, and it's open season.
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Old 29th September 2021, 01:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Mr. Mistic commonly communicates that he is deaf and that he needs to write to communicate by raising his hands, touching or covering his ears, and shaking his head ‘no’ and then mimicking the act of writing on a piece of paper.
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
What would you do?
Well, of course, if my Marcel Marceau tribute show didn’t get the point across, I’d have to do something. I’d probably try a silent solo rendition of “Putting On The Ritz”. That would be the next logical step.



If somehow that didn’t work, I’d probably hand them a card along with my license and registration, one that said “I’m deaf” on it. There may even be other possibilities, if we use our imagination. I mean, how many times a day does this guy break into pantomime? I don’t know what he does for a hobby, but I'm guessing his full-time job is in performance art. After all, they don't him "Mr. Mistic" for nothing.

Originally Posted by eerok View Post
He'd probably troll the cops.

I was thinking this exact thing. Perhaps he could carry a small whiteboard in the car? That would be a great idea.



The part that amazes me is, nobody reads this story and questions any of it. It must all be 100% true, of course. And that is the really comical part.
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Old 29th September 2021, 01:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
For deaf people, the issue with the police isn't limited to driving. They could be sitting in their own back yard, and if they can't hear orders being barked at them, they're resisting, and it's open season.
This is very true. Our police force mostly operates on a "get them before they get you" mindset.

I follow this guy on tiktok that purposefully messed with police. He'll film jails, courthouses, etc. until the cops engage. Where he then informs them of his rights and politely tells them to bugger off (everything else I can think of would get asterisked).

I always thought it was childish, trolling, and pathetic behavior until I realized what he was doing. By sharing all of these cops blatantly not knowing the law that they're sworn to uphold, he's putting other cops on notice. He's putting other citizens on notice that they have rights and it's ok to push back. If enough people do, perhaps it'll make a bit of change, that's when he earned a follow.

I also, however, follow a dancing Christmas tree. So...I don't know, take it with a grain of salt.

ETA: Please let us not let trolling, reaction baiting, completely asinine posts bait us into giving attention to those that don't need it - A wise man once said...probably
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Old 29th September 2021, 01:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
In the confusion, the situation escalated. According to a new lawsuit filed by Mistic, the officers threw him to the ground, stunned him with a Taser and put him in handcuffs. He tried to use some of the words he is able to speak: “No ears.” It seemed to make no difference.
How about the word, "Deaf"? Seems easier to say and more to the point. "No ears", seriously? It's as though people can't detect anything with their BS meter.

Quote:
During the incident, police said Hanning “suffered a serious leg-break.” But Mistic alleges in the lawsuit that the officer “hurt himself in the course of the attack.”
The officer must have hurt himself, of course. Deaf people are incapable of violence.
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Old 29th September 2021, 02:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
......
The part that amazes me is, nobody reads this story and questions any of it. It must all be 100% true, of course. And that is the really comical part.
What's ridiculous -- and nothing comical about it -- is when people like you refuse to believe news they don't like. What do you think isn't true? Did you note that one of the cops was fired and charged for assaulting somebody else? You think maybe that says something about him?

Here are other reports that include bodycam footage.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ouldn-n1280272
https://mcutimes.com/deaf-colorado-m...-brady-mistic/

What's also clear from the reports is that the police didn't approach him in a standard traffic stop. He drove to his intended destination, a laundromat, parked and got out, and the police approached him there about running a stop sign. He apparently didn't get out of his car in response to the police lights; he got out because he was where he planned to be.

Note that the police dept. isn't claiming that the events described didn't happen, only that the cops were justified because they didn't realize he was deaf.

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Old 29th September 2021, 07:37 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What's also clear from the reports is that the police didn't approach him in a standard traffic stop. He drove to his intended destination, a laundromat, parked and got out, and the police approached him there about running a stop sign. He apparently didn't get out of his car in response to the police lights; he got out because he was where he planned to be.
Should these people even be driving? They can't hear horns or sirens in any regard. These things can prove vital to the life and safety of others.

And, apparently they can only communicate their deafness via song and dance routines.
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Old 29th September 2021, 07:42 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Should these people even be driving? The can't hear horns or sirens in any regard. These things can prove vital to the life and safety of others.

And, apparently they can only communicate their deafness via song and dance routines.
Brilliant idea. They should put flashing lights on cop cars and ambulances. I wonder why nobody thought of that? You should run out and patent the idea before anyone else does.
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Old 29th September 2021, 07:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Should these people even be driving? They can't hear horns or sirens in any regard. These things can prove vital to the life and safety of others.
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Brilliant idea. They should put flashing lights on cop cars and ambulances. I wonder why nobody thought of that? You should run out and patent the idea before anyone else does.
Well, this guy didn't see the lights...so think about it.

When you are driving, what first alerts you to an approaching fire truck, police vehicle, or ambulance...the lights or the sound? If you answered "lights", are you deaf?
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Old 29th September 2021, 07:55 PM   #27
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The lights.
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Old 29th September 2021, 07:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The lights.
LMAO. Are you deaf? And are you paying attention to the road?

Oh wait, "technically the light, if my mirrors are adjusted properly. Based on the speed of light vs sound. Whether I recognize such alerts is a different matter."
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Old 29th September 2021, 08:00 PM   #29
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Look. This whole thread is political ACAB crap.
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Old 29th September 2021, 09:20 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
LMAO. Are you deaf? And are you paying attention to the road?

Oh wait, "technically the light, if my mirrors are adjusted properly. Based on the speed of light vs sound. Whether I recognize such alerts is a different matter."
The later report indicates that he had parked, and was out of his car when the police turned on their lights and approached him. There is no suggestion that he ignored lights while driving. Beaten up by cops, sent to hospital, and imprisoned for three months for running a stop sign?

It occurs to me that person who, as you appear to, advocates that deaf people constitute a danger and should be forbidden to drive might, if he were actually serious about the issue and not just blowing smoke, do some research to see if there are any statistics regarding the accident rate of deaf drivers. Who knows, maybe you could enlighten us.

It is possible, of course, that this particular person was as awful as you make out, and that the cops were just fine and dandy in their treatment of him. I rather doubt that, but the issue of whether or not deaf people should be allowed to drive is, I think, a separate one, which you have introduced, and which I would suggest you look into.
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Old 29th September 2021, 09:26 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Look. This whole thread is political ACAB crap.
That's an odd comment. Does the bad behavior of some cops tarnish them all in your view? Did the incident not happen? A large part of this story concerns, not just the cops, but a jail system that held a deaf person for three months without acknowledging his deafness. Are you saying that does not suggest a problem? Or are you just suggesting that nobody should bring it up, because **** happens, if not here then somewhere else?
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Old 29th September 2021, 09:33 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
It is possible, of course, that this particular person was as awful as you make out, and that the cops were just fine and dandy in their treatment of him. I rather doubt that, but the issue of whether or not deaf people should be allowed to drive is, I think, a separate one, which you have introduced, and which I would suggest you look into.
No, don't be silly. It had to be the cops, 100% to blame.
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
How about the word, "Deaf"? Seems easier to say and more to the point. "No ears", seriously? It's as though people can't detect anything with their BS meter.
As someone who is completely deaf in one ear (right), and has such a severe case of tinnitus that I have about 20% useful hearing in the other, I can tell you that you are full of ****, and you have utterly no ******* idea what you are talking about.

I am somewhat fortunate in that, while I will be completely deaf in a few years as my left inner ear deteriorates, I have at least spoken and heard in my lifetime, and so I know how to pronounce words. But, for a person who has been deaf from birth, they have no idea how to pronounce anything. Phonetic pronunciation is meaningless to them. Yes, they can look at the letters, D, E, A, and F, and they know what it means, but they neither know what it sounds like (because they have never actually heard speech) nor are they likely to be able to pronounce it. I say "likely" because, with a lot of difficulty, and a truckload of patience on the part of both student and the teacher, a profoundly deaf or deaf/mute person can be taught very rudimentary speech with an extremely limited vocabulary. Not every one of them can do this - almost certainly he will have learned sign language and lip-reading... the American sign language sign for "deaf" is this...



... and do you want to take a guess what it translates to in words... yeah, its "not hear" or sometimes "no ears".

Now that you have been educated on the limitations the deaf face every day of their lives, you can stop being an asshat about this!
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Old 29th September 2021, 10:21 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
As someone who is completely deaf in one ear (right), and has such a severe case of tinnitus that I have about 20% useful hearing in the other, I can tell you that you are full of ****, and you have utterly no ******* idea what you are talking about.

I am somewhat fortunate in that, while I will be completely deaf in a few years as my left inner ear deteriorates, I have at least spoken and heard in my lifetime, and so I know how to pronounce words. But, for a person who has been deaf from birth, they have no idea how to pronounce anything. Phonetic pronunciation is meaningless to them. Yes, they can look at the letters, D, E, A, and F, and they know what it means, but they neither know what it sounds like (because they have never actually heard speech) nor are they likely to be able to pronounce it. I say "likely" because, with a lot of difficulty, and a truckload of patience on the part of both student and the teacher, a profoundly deaf or deaf/mute person can be taught very rudimentary speech with an extremely limited vocabulary. Not every one of them can do this - almost certainly he will have learned sign language and lip-reading... the American sign language sign for "deaf" is this...



... and do you want to take a guess what it translates to in words... yeah, its "not hear" or sometimes "no ears".

Now that you have been educated on the limitations the deaf face every day of their lives, you can stop being an asshat about this!
"No ears" should be a meme. "Deaf" is the target word. Hope this helps.
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Old 30th September 2021, 01:44 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
"No ears" should be a meme. "Deaf" is the target word. Hope this helps.
It doesn't. Your purposeful ignorance is risible!
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Old 30th September 2021, 06:38 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Look. This whole thread is political ACAB crap.
Well, there's a garnish of ableism too.
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Old 30th September 2021, 07:02 AM   #37
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It's apparently too much of a stretch for some to imagine that a person could communicate his deafness just by signs, pantomime, and language without being able to utter the magic word. At least not to a cop or a jailer. Sorry, take two steps back, you didn't say the magic word!
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Old 30th September 2021, 07:09 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Look. This whole thread is political ACAB crap.
With the exception of an extremely sensitive "NoCAB" minority running cover for a couple gorilla cops that brutalized a deaf man.
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Old 30th September 2021, 07:10 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Now that you have been educated on the limitations the deaf face every day of their lives, you can stop being an asshat about this!
Oh look, there goes a pig flying!

I thought this guy's ableism only applied to mental illness or female issues, but apparently he likes to **** on physical disabilities too. So... progress?

Btw, my boyfriend is also deaf in one ear (due to a tumor). He used to be a pilot, and losing his hearing ruined that career path for him. He still struggles a lot. It's not the same as your situation, smartcooky, but his journey has caused me to learn a great deal about hearing loss and all the different levels of complication it can bring.
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Old 30th September 2021, 07:15 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post

If somehow that didn’t work, I’d probably hand them a card along with my license and registration, one that said “I’m deaf” on it.
Best have it written on your forehead. Otherwise you might have to "reach for something"...
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