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Old 5th October 2021, 11:57 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Mistic got out and went straight back to the cops driver side window, like literally inches from it.

Those of us who don't like getting shot do not do this. Perhaps Mistic was unaware that this was a dangerous thing to do?
Why should walking up to a police car be a dangerous thing to do?
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Old 5th October 2021, 12:03 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And the law is crystal clear that you stay in the vehicle.
Is that an actual law?
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Old 5th October 2021, 12:27 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Why should walking up to a police car be a dangerous thing to do?
Because United States.
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Old 5th October 2021, 12:29 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Is that an actual law?
I do believe so. My kids recently got drivers licenses and it was in their drivers ed manuals.
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Old 5th October 2021, 12:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I do believe so. My kids recently got drivers licenses and it was in their drivers ed manuals.
that is probably advice to keep them alive rather than law.
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Old 5th October 2021, 12:52 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I do believe so. My kids recently got drivers licenses and it was in their drivers ed manuals.
Cite? Telling drivers to stay in their cars is practical advice for the safety of both cops and drivers: They don't want somebody stepping into traffic on the highway. But I would be very surprised if it's a law. What about a guy who jumps out of his car to tell the cop he's rushing his pregnant wife to the hospital, to think of just one possibility? I ask again, why are cops always so scared?
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Old 5th October 2021, 01:20 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
......
eta: the suit says Mistic was going to the laundromat to do his laundry. His car was parked at least 50 feet away. He was empty handed. So why wasn't he carrying his clothes to be laundered? What was he going to do, just strip down and wash the clothes he was wearing? He was empty handed because he was just getting out of his car to address the cops that just pulled him over.
Maybe he was picking up laundry he had put in machines an hour earlier. Maybe the laundromat offers a "wash and fold" service. Who knows? The point is that your video link shows the cops stopping at 00:24, by 00:29 the driver is walking toward the cop car (where do you see "running?) and the female cop is screaming "Get back in your car!" and at 00:29 the male cop is out of the car yelling "Who do you think you are!," and by 00:33 the cop is attacking him. About nine seconds in all. That's called a rush to judgment.
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Old 6th October 2021, 12:42 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You're losing me here. You are proposing the cops were just cruising down the street with their lights on when Mistic was already walking around outside the laundromat? Seems an odd assertion. Also, it was night, and the cops prob couldn't see the driver in his car. How did they know Mistic was the driver of the car they were following if the car was 50 feet away and they had just pulled up? Mistic would just have been some random guy very far away from the car they were after.
I'm not proposing any of those things. In response you your statement "They followed him with their red and blue lights flashing and followed him till he stopped What in the ever loving **** do you think "pulling someone over" actually means?" I'm saying the video doesn't seem to provide any evidence that the cops were following Mistic's car for any length of time that you could reasonably say "it should have been obvious to Mistic that he was the one they were interested in".
The complaint states that Mistic ran a stop sign "a block away from the laundromat" (it bothers me a little that the doc repeatedly refers to a 'laundry mat'), which suggests a very short time frame in which the cops would have had to react by switching on their lights and beginning to follow Mistic, and Mistic coming to the conclusion that it was him that they were following. During that same time frame, Mistic had pulled into the lot, parked his vehicle, exited the vehicle and apparently made his way on foot toward their vehicle. The complaint also states that the police didn't immediately follow him or park near him which further adds to the argument that he may not have know he was their focus, but naturally the complaint will try to be as generous as possible to Mistic.
My point here is that I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that it was the regulation traffic stop you seem to have been referred to, and certainly any "duh, he's deaf, not blind" comments are not only contemptible, but also unwarranted in my view.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The complaint says that the police parked 50 feet away from Mistic's car. Big parking lot, I guess. So why do both officers simultaniously jolt and abruptly yell to get back in his car, if it was 50 feet away? That makes no sense at all. What makes more sense is that they followed Mistic in, and he got out as soon as the patrol car stopped. Note that at :25, the cops go from still and relaxed to both suddenly bolting, slamming the car in park, and telling him to get back in the car. That only makes sense if Mistic had just gotten out of his.
I'd imagine the 50ft measurement is probably exaggerated, but since it's standard for police to request people to return to their car, it's far from inconceivable that they would do this as a matter of course. I wouldn't assume that they would only say this if he was standing right beside his vehicle or just exited it.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The suit also says Mistic was 5-10 feet away from the cruiser. Demonstrably false. He is inches from the driver side door. Summers, who was on the passenger side, gets out and runs around the back of the car to confront Mistic, and the driver (Hanning) is not even out of the car yet. Again, the video is dodgy, but it certainly looks like Mistic is fighting Summers. He does not have his hands up like he is non-threatening. His elbows are up like he is boxing and he is swinging.
"your honour, Mr Mistic stopped walking and stood 5-10ft away from the police vehicle which then moved closer to him"
The first image of Mistic in the video pretty much looks like he has his hands by his sides or on his hip until the officer comes around (quickly) and seems to attack him. You and I may be perceiving this differently, but it does not look to me like Mistic initiates aggressive movement.
.....

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
How long do you expect a cop to follow you with lights on before you pull over? Here in the States, you pull over at the first opportunity. And the law is crystal clear that you stay in the vehicle.

Body cams are turned on at the start of an interaction, plus or minus. I don't think police are required to have them rolling before they interact with a suspect.


My bad. I meant the suit, linked below. The police report has not been released, I suppose until a FOI request has been filed.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ginal-petition

eta: the suit says Mistic was going to the laundromat to do his laundry. His car was parked at least 50 feet away. He was empty handed. So why wasn't he carrying his clothes to be laundered? What was he going to do, just strip down and wash the clothes he was wearing? He was empty handed because he was just getting out of his car to address the cops that just pulled him over.
Thanks for the link.
Sure it's possible that Mistic thought it may have been something to do with him. I'm not actually entirely convinced that he only approached the police vehicle because he was startled by the lights. As for why/where/how his laundry was or wasn't being done, there are dozens of plausible explanations, so I'm not going to assume anything.
That's part of the reason that I wanted to read what the police report had to say about all of this. Several articles referenced the police report, so I don't know why they hadn't provided a link it.
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Old 6th October 2021, 09:09 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
I'm not proposing any of those things. In response you your statement "They followed him with their red and blue lights flashing and followed him till he stopped What in the ever loving **** do you think "pulling someone over" actually means?" I'm saying the video doesn't seem to provide any evidence that the cops were following Mistic's car for any length of time that you could reasonably say "it should have been obvious to Mistic that he was the one they were interested in".
The complaint states that Mistic ran a stop sign "a block away from the laundromat" (it bothers me a little that the doc repeatedly refers to a 'laundry mat'),
Preach

Quote:
... which suggests a very short time frame in which the cops would have had to react by switching on their lights and beginning to follow Mistic, and Mistic coming to the conclusion that it was him that they were following. During that same time frame, Mistic had pulled into the lot, parked his vehicle, exited the vehicle and apparently made his way on foot toward their vehicle. The complaint also states that the police didn't immediately follow him or park near him which further adds to the argument that he may not have know he was their focus, but naturally the complaint will try to be as generous as possible to Mistic.
My point here is that I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that it was the regulation traffic stop you seem to have been referred to, and certainly any "duh, he's deaf, not blind" comments are not only contemptible, but also unwarranted in my view.
OK, you are proposing that there was enough space between the patrol car and Mistic that he didn't realize that the flashing lights were related to him? Fair point. I mean, those lights are damn near blinding everyone for a block around, and I'd wager every pair of eyes around (except Brady) was paying attention to them, to see what was going on/possible danger/etc, but fair point.

The place where that take flounders a bit is when the officers jolt and scream to get back in the car. That implies pretty strongly that they were right there with those intense red and blues flashing when Mistic left his car.

Quote:
I'd imagine the 50ft measurement is probably exaggerated, but since it's standard for police to request people to return to their car, it's far from inconceivable that they would do this as a matter of course. I wouldn't assume that they would only say this if he was standing right beside his vehicle or just exited it.
I was wondering a little about this. Summers was a trainee, and may have spat out the first phrase that came to mind, as opposed to the more appropriate one. Hanning, the veteran cop, didn't even get out of the car till she had run around it and was all over Mistic. Hanning evidently sat in the cruiser asking "who do you think you are?", but not even getting out, even though he was much, much closer to Mistic.

Quote:
"your honour, Mr Mistic stopped walking and stood 5-10ft away from the police vehicle which then moved closer to him"
Well, except that as Bob001 pointed out, we do catch Brady's head and shoulders at the front of the cruiser for like a single frame after it had stopped (at :27, and slow it down to .25 speed). He was without question moving to the driver's window after the patrol car was in park.

Quote:
The first image of Mistic in the video pretty much looks like he has his hands by his sides or on his hip until the officer comes around (quickly) and seems to attack him. You and I may be perceiving this differently, but it does not look to me like Mistic initiates aggressive movement.
.....
Oh no, I agree entirely. Summers ran around the back of the car and absolutely clinched up with him immediately. And as near as I can see, he fought beck, probably instinctively. She was in "get the fleeing/attacking suspect" mode, and too soon. But not entirely unwarranted. He was not behaving the way that most people know to behave around police with emergency lights on. You keep clear from them, not go up to their window unprompted.

Quote:
Thanks for the link.
Sure it's possible that Mistic thought it may have been something to do with him. I'm not actually entirely convinced that he only approached the police vehicle because he was startled by the lights. As for why/where/how his laundry was or wasn't being done, there are dozens of plausible explanations, so I'm not going to assume anything.
That's part of the reason that I wanted to read what the police report had to say about all of this. Several articles referenced the police report, so I don't know why they hadn't provided a link it.
Getting a police report in that county is a formal request, not just an online thing. This is their procedure:

https://www.clearcreekcounty.us/770/...Police-Reports

So it's a tiny bit of work that either wasn't ready yet for release, or no one bothered. Journalists are sometimes treated to a view or selected quotes, but not a full public broadcast till redactions have been reviewed.

My point here is not to defend the cops. It's more along the lines of "there are three sides to a story; his, hers, and the truth". I'm seeing this as each having screwed the pooch in their own ways. Brady, a little, and Summers, a lot. Hanning, well...he was still in the car when Summers tangled up with Mistic, and we don't see him again till he is laying on the curb with his broken ankle. He does give the go-ahead to tase, after Summers threatens it, but we have no idea what was going on at that point (except we are pretty sure Brady couldn't hear any instructions).

Bottom line for yours truly is that I'm glad a gun didn't come out. That's usually how these tales end up. Hanning is assumed to be the bad guy, because he was later fired for another violent arrest (that, funnily enough, Summers was also his partner at). But he ran his mouth and sat on his ass while Summers ran out to attack. She seems like the primary problem here, not him.
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Old 6th October 2021, 10:20 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
.....
Oh no, I agree entirely. Summers ran around the back of the car and absolutely clinched up with him immediately. And as near as I can see, he fought beck, probably instinctively. She was in "get the fleeing/attacking suspect" mode, and too soon.
.....
I just note that in copthink, "fighting back" can be something as basic as putting your hands up or pulling away when a cop grabs you. There are countless videos of cops screaming "Stop resisting!" as they pound some helpless suspect curled up on the ground. There's no indication that Mistic was fighting as most of us use the word.

Here's a question: Where was the cop car in relation to Mistic's car and the laundromat entrance? If it was between them, and he got out of his car to walk to the laundromat, he would also have been walking toward their car.
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Old 6th October 2021, 11:00 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I just note that in copthink, "fighting back" can be something as basic as putting your hands up or pulling away when a cop grabs you. There are countless videos of cops screaming "Stop resisting!" as they pound some helpless suspect curled up on the ground. There's no indication that Mistic was fighting as most of us use the word.

Here's a question: Where was the cop car in relation to Mistic's car and the laundromat entrance? If it was between them, and he got out of his car to walk to the laundromat, he would also have been walking toward their car.
Yeah, knowing where the cars are relative to each other and when they respectively got there is a big factor. I wonder if the laundromat or adjoining properties have surveillance systems that may have caught that?

It does kind of look like the big windowed building in front of the car is the laundromat. Behind the cops would have been the street they just pulled off of (note they don't turn the patrol car wheel much at pulling in).

Mistic was still standing right at the window, facing Hanning. Not a great time to walk up and greet friendly Mr Policeman, IMO. Don't know what Brady Mistic was thinking there. I was taught to get out of sight when the red and blues are flashing, even if I did nothing wrong. Nothing but bad can happen to you if you are not the victim the cops are rolling to assist.
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Old 6th October 2021, 11:28 AM   #92
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So we've sliced and diced up the incident and arrest pretty well. Phase two: incarceration.

Did Mistic have a lawyer representing him? A bail bondsman? Family or friends to communicate with? What evidence did the judge consider when holding him for months?

The suit claims he was not afforded all he should have been, but what did he actually have? Did he understand what was happening at all? It would be heinously wrong of the judge to hold him without representation.
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Old 6th October 2021, 01:23 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
.....
It does kind of look like the big windowed building in front of the car is the laundromat. Behind the cops would have been the street they just pulled off of (note they don't turn the patrol car wheel much at pulling in).

Mistic was still standing right at the window, facing Hanning. Not a great time to walk up and greet friendly Mr Policeman, IMO. Don't know what Brady Mistic was thinking there. I was taught to get out of sight when the red and blues are flashing, even if I did nothing wrong. Nothing but bad can happen to you if you are not the victim the cops are rolling to assist.
Okay, here's one possibility: The cop car is between his car and the laundromat. He gets out and walks toward the laundromat, and he sees the lady cop screaming and waving at him. He walks up to the car to find out what's happening, and both cops jump on him.

No proof, but certainly as plausible as "He must have known..." and "He was looking for a fight...."
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Old 6th October 2021, 01:32 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
.....
The suit claims he was not afforded all he should have been, but what did he actually have? Did he understand what was happening at all? It would be heinously wrong of the judge to hold him without representation.

One account says the suit claims that he wasn't given any such services.
Quote:
After leaving the hospital, Mistic was jailed for more than three months; according to the complaint; during this time he repeatedly tried to inform the prison staff using the so-called kiting system that “he was deaf, that he could not use the inserted telephone system, that he needed an interpreter to communicate, and that he needed some kind of technological and / or service help to use the deployed telephone system to communicate with family, friends, his lawyer and / or a guarantor, “ but to no avail.
https://mcutimes.com/deaf-colorado-m...-brady-mistic/

You would think there would have been an arraignment before a judge, but small towns are known to be flexible about the rules.
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Old 6th October 2021, 03:20 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Is that an actual law?

No it is not a law. It is a suggestion because our cops might shoot at you since they think almost everyone they pull over is trying to kill them.

Statistics on violence against cops do not back this sentiment. You should be able to approach a police officer sitting in their car without being attacked, my gawd we have become so used to this utter BS. Thin blue line my arse.

Again: "Who do you think you are?" Wow
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Old 6th October 2021, 04:59 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Okay, here's one possibility: The cop car is between his car and the laundromat. He gets out and walks toward the laundromat, and he sees the lady cop screaming and waving at him. He walks up to the car to find out what's happening, and both cops jump on him.
Ok. Putting myself in that situation: it's night, and police roll up with lights a-blazing. Visible from absolutely anywhere on the block, even if they were behind him. At least one of tne whack jobs jumping out of the car and running around. I can't hear a thing.

Do I walk right up to the window of these obviously highly agitated and aggressive cops? No ******* way. Not under any circumstances. Cuz I like staying alive. Pretty sure that is "just as likely" as anything else? Sounds like a moonshot theory to me, if he was able to see Summers at all.

Quote:
No proof, but certainly as plausible as "He must have known..." and "He was looking for a fight...."
No one is saying he was looking for a fight, and certainly not with two cops.

Slight variation on your above scenario: Mistic thought something like the cops were trying to get his attention with the lights (bad, bad assumption) and he was trying to figure out what the indignant driver was saying (importantly, Hanning hadn't got off his ass yet), and was blindsided by Summers, who he hadn't seen yet ( she was running around the back of the cruiser). He doesn't realize she was a cop in time, so he throws down a little. Hanning climbs out of the car around this time and gets his foot caught in the door, breaking it. The immediate pain gets him fired up and he takes it out on Brady too., being more aggressive than usual. Plausible? Accounts for the facts?
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Old 6th October 2021, 08:39 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
.....
Slight variation on your above scenario: Mistic thought something like the cops were trying to get his attention with the lights (bad, bad assumption) and he was trying to figure out what the indignant driver was saying (importantly, Hanning hadn't got off his ass yet), and was blindsided by Summers, who he hadn't seen yet ( she was running around the back of the cruiser). He doesn't realize she was a cop in time, so he throws down a little. Hanning climbs out of the car around this time and gets his foot caught in the door, breaking it. The immediate pain gets him fired up and he takes it out on Brady too., being more aggressive than usual. Plausible? Accounts for the facts?
Entirely plausible. I note that a deaf person experiences the world differently from the rest of us. He can only communicate if he is close to someone else: close enough to see sign language, or write and pass notes, or maybe read lips. His instinct would be to move toward someone he's tryng to communicate with or who's trying to communicate with him. And if he didn't know or think he had done something wrong, he wouldn't be afraid of them.
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Old 6th October 2021, 08:56 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Entirely plausible. I note that a deaf person experiences the world differently from the rest of us. He can only communicate if he is close to someone else: close enough to see sign language, or write and pass notes, or maybe read lips. His instinct would be to move toward someone he's tryng to communicate with or who's trying to communicate with him. And if he didn't know or think he had done something wrong, he wouldn't be afraid of them.
Yes, and his alien instincts would mean he has no concept of how to deal with our society in general. Police Officers would be a mysterious entity that he might approach with childlike fascination. How would he even know the rules of the road to begin with? The world of an alien, I mean deaf person, seems scary.
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Old 7th October 2021, 07:56 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yes, and his alien instincts would mean he has no concept of how to deal with our society in general. Police Officers would be a mysterious entity that he might approach with childlike fascination. How would he even know the rules of the road to begin with? The world of an alien, I mean deaf person, seems scary.
I reject the notion that approaching a cop is -- or should be -- either illegal or unwise for anyone, and it's the only way a deaf person can communicate with him.
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:13 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I reject the notion that approaching a cop is -- or should be -- either illegal or unwise for anyone, and it's the only way a deaf person can communicate with him.
Well...we should be able to do a lot of things. Leave our home unlocked when we leave, leave your wallet on the dashboard of your unlocked car. Things like that. But in the practical sense?

I feel confident that Mistic should have known not to approach an emergency vehicle with the lights on. He should have known that the flashing lights mean that is not a good time for conversation. I mean, isn't the article pretty clear that Brady says he doesn't read lips, and only communicates through ASL or writing? He didn't have a pen and paper out, and claimed to be blinded by the lights, so whatever lip reading he could have done (that he says he can't anyway) he wasn't going to be able to do.

Dark parking lot at night. Cop inside a patrol car. Flashing red and Blues and/or spotlight. No pen and paper. Can't read lips. What was he going to do by walking up to the window, with those blinding lights literally a foot from his own?
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:24 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
....
Dark parking lot at night. Cop inside a patrol car. Flashing red and Blues and/or spotlight. No pen and paper. Can't read lips. What was he going to do by walking up to the window, with those blinding lights literally a foot from his own?
He might have gestured that he was deaf and asked for a pen and paper. Or maybe he had pen and paper in his pocket. Or maybe he's just confused. One of the links says he had no problems during previous interactions with police, which might have given him a false sense of security. But I ask again, why are cops so belligerently scared? One of them said "Who do you think you are?" The correct answer is "I am a citizen approaching my employee." The cops are supposed to be working for us.
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:33 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Well...we should be able to do a lot of things. Leave our home unlocked when we leave, leave your wallet on the dashboard of your unlocked car. Things like that. But in the practical sense?
That's for protection against criminals, not public servants. Funny that you intermingle the two when trying to legitimize their excessive use of force.
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:35 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He might have gestured that he was deaf and asked for a pen and paper. Or maybe he had pen and paper in his pocket. Or maybe he's just confused. One of the links says he had no problems during previous interactions with police, which might have given him a false sense of security. But I ask again, why are cops so belligerently scared? One of them said "Who do you think you are?" The correct answer is "I am a citizen approaching my employee." The cops are supposed to be working for us.
Agreed, police shouldn't behave this way. We shouldn't be afraid of them. But the way they are was a long time coming. It may take a while to undo.

Hanning is out on unrelated violence. Cool. one down. Why Summers is still on the force escapes me. I mean, no matter how you view that interaction, she rushed him and apparently grabbed him violently. What happened to the good ol' days when a cop would stand back and point a gun? Now that I think about it, I'm not sure which is preferable: pointing a deadly weapon, or just going straight in for the suplex.
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:37 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed, police shouldn't behave this way. We shouldn't be afraid of them. But the way they are was a long time coming. It may take a while to undo.

Hanning is out on unrelated violence. Cool. one down. Why Summers is still on the force escapes me. I mean, no matter how you view that interaction, she rushed him and apparently grabbed him violently. What happened to the good ol' days when a cop would stand back and point a gun? Now that I think about it, I'm not sure which is preferable: pointing a deadly weapon, or just going straight in for the suplex.

It's tragic that you see those as the only choices. How 'bout "I am Officer Jones. How may I help you?"
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:38 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
That's for protection against criminals, not public servants. Funny that you intermingle the two when trying to legitimize their excessive use of force.
Take a breath and focus on your reading skills. I've said consistently that the popo were off the leash, and Summers in particular. That doesn't mean Mistic has no responsibility. Are things usually that simple to you?
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:45 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It's tragic that you see those as the only choices. How 'bout "I am Officer Jones. How may I help you?"
Comparing those two doesn't mean I think they are the only options. I'm second guessing my earlier optimism that a gun wasn't the first go-to.
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:49 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Take a breath and focus on your reading skills. I've said consistently that the popo were off the leash, and Summers in particular. That doesn't mean Mistic has no responsibility. Are things usually that simple to you?
And I think being a cop requires the ability to deal with people who might be confused, upset, injured, disabled or impaired without assaulting them. In this particular case, suppose the laundromat had been in the other direction. The cops see him get out of his car and walk away from them. They scream "Stop in the name of the law!" and he doesn't. Now in cop-mind he's fleeing. Is it his fault if they shoot him in the back?
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:55 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And I think being a cop requires the ability to deal with people who might be confused, upset, injured, disabled or impaired without assaulting them. In this particular case, suppose the laundromat had been in the other direction. The cops see him get out of his car and walk away from them. They scream "Stop in the name of the law!" and he doesn't. Now in cop-mind he's fleeing. Is it his fault if they shoot him in the back?
I don't believe a cop could get away with shooting any non-violent unarmed man in the back. Conceptually, at least. News reports notwithstanding.
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Old 7th October 2021, 09:07 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I don't believe a cop could get away with shooting any non-violent unarmed man in the back. Conceptually, at least. News reports notwithstanding.
"He assaulted me before he attempted to flee." "He reached into his pocket. I was sure he had a gun." "He stole my taser, and I thought he'd use it on me." Cops get caught when there's video. Otherwise, it's their word against a corpse.

This cop thought he'd get away with it.
https://www.gawker.com/video-of-cop-...der-1696334898

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Old 7th October 2021, 09:19 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Take a breath and focus on your reading skills. I've said consistently that the popo were off the leash, and Summers in particular. That doesn't mean Mistic has no responsibility. Are things usually that simple to you?
Yawn. Here you are again saying how bad the cops are, while going out of your way to say how bad Mistic was. His portion of this is such a minor point to the actions of the police, they're barely worth discussing. This one is pretty simple, and you are the one who has repeatedly failed to address the cop saying "Who do you thin you are?" as his first question.

Next you'll be asking what Mistic's mile time is.
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Old 7th October 2021, 10:24 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Yawn. Here you are again saying how bad the cops are, while going out of your way to say how bad Mistic was. His portion of this is such a minor point to the actions of the police, they're barely worth discussing. This one is pretty simple,
Yet again for the slow kids in the back:

Cops, very wrong. Mistic, possibly a little wrong. Depends a lot on when he pulled in and how far they were apart, and whether he inexplicably ran up to the drivers side window with no means at all of communicating.

Quote:
and you are the one who has repeatedly failed to address the cop saying "Who do you thin you are?" as his first question.
...wut? Failed to address what? Hanning was an arrogant jerk.

Btw, it wasn't "his first" question. It was the third. The first was "Running up on us like that?" The second was "Excuse me?"

But you obviously don't understand what the cops jumping and freaking simultaneously means. It means that Mistic likely did abruptly run at the cruiser. Unless you are joining the conspiracy theory that the coppers had it choreographed in advance?

Quote:
Next you'll be asking what Mistic's mile time is.
Belz... was right. The trolls have won. Just a general observation.
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Old 7th October 2021, 01:33 PM   #112
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Ran at the cruiser?

Haha priceless.
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Old 7th October 2021, 01:44 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ran at the cruiser?

Haha priceless.
Give it a few pages it will have advanced to him twirling the cruiser over his head like the Incredible Hulk.
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Old 7th October 2021, 01:52 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
"He assaulted me before he attempted to flee." "He reached into his pocket. I was sure he had a gun." "He stole my taser, and I thought he'd use it on me." Cops get caught when there's video. Otherwise, it's their word against a corpse.

This cop thought he'd get away with it.
https://www.gawker.com/video-of-cop-...der-1696334898
Cops make approximately 10 million arrests per year, in the US. According to this forum, they shoot and kill 9 million. The reality is that it is more in the range of 100 unarmed or less, and a total of 1000 individuals.

I'm not saying that some don't commit crimes, but the threat to the general public is ultra-exaggerated. Here and elsewhere.
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Old 7th October 2021, 02:10 PM   #115
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Why do they kill anyone that is unarmed?

Why would they kill any that haven't committed a crime?
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Old 7th October 2021, 02:14 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Cops make approximately 10 million arrests per year, in the US. According to this forum, they shoot and kill 9 million. The reality is that it is more in the range of 100 unarmed or less, and a total of 1000 individuals.

I'm not saying that some don't commit crimes, but the threat to the general public is ultra-exaggerated. Here and elsewhere.
Your whataboutism doesn't magically make all the bad cops into good cops.

The US has a problem with bad cops, not just the bad cops themselves but with a system that protects them, such as Police Unions and qualified immunity. Even if a cop does get fired, and may not be able to be a cop in that state, all he has to do is go to another state where be can be a cop again

1. Qualified immunity needs to go.
2. Police Unions need to be neutered.
3. There needs to be a Federal law prohibiting a cop who has been fired for misconduct ever again working in Law Enforcement anywhere in the US.
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Old 7th October 2021, 03:59 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Cops make approximately 10 million arrests per year, in the US. According to this forum, they shoot and kill 9 million. The reality is that it is more in the range of 100 unarmed or less, and a total of 1000 individuals.

I'm not saying that some don't commit crimes, but the threat to the general public is ultra-exaggerated. Here and elsewhere.
These are not good numbers, even if they are true.

Look at comparable numbers for other western democracies. This **** is embarrassing.
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Old 7th October 2021, 04:16 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Your whataboutism doesn't magically make all the bad cops into good cops.

The US has a problem with bad cops, not just the bad cops themselves but with a system that protects them, such as Police Unions and qualified immunity. Even if a cop does get fired, and may not be able to be a cop in that state, all he has to do is go to another state where be can be a cop again

1. Qualified immunity needs to go.
2. Police Unions need to be neutered.
3. There needs to be a Federal law prohibiting a cop who has been fired for misconduct ever again working in Law Enforcement anywhere in the US.
Eliminating qualified immunity would not only allow citizens to sue cops personally for misconduct, but, practically speaking, it would have the additional benefit of requiring cops to buy liability insurance or obtain it from their employer. A cop would be a fool to hit the streets without it. A consequence is that insurers would have an independent financial incentive to monitor police behavior, and, just as with other forms of insurance, cancel a policy when the holder files an unusual number of claims. The insurer could get bad cops off the street even if his department wouldn't.

I dunno about No. 3. A national police registry would allow prospective employers to learn about any cop's disciplinary history. But a prohibition against working anywhere else would hand the power of professional life and death to one employer, who might fire or discipline somebody for being a whistleblower or protesting bad management. A registry would put all the information in the hands of a prospective employer, who would be responsible for weighing it appropriately.
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Old 7th October 2021, 04:25 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Cops make approximately 10 million arrests per year, in the US. According to this forum, they shoot and kill 9 million.
.....
No one thinks that and you know it.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
.....
I'm not saying that some don't commit crimes, but the threat to the general public is ultra-exaggerated. Here and elsewhere.

With more than a million cops and 18,000 police and sheriffs' departments, if only a tiny percentage are committing crimes and abusing citizens, that's a lot of damage. The real issue is that a cop who commits a crime, often many, often gets away with it, even when his fellow cops know about him. That's the problem.

And if the threat to the public is "ultra-exaggerated," so is the public's threat to the guy carrying a badge and a gun. Police work isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs, and a majority of police deaths are the result of traffic accidents, but the "warrior cop" mentality encourages them to see everybody as their enemy. Cops who kill people should be held to the same standards as a civilian would be: Was this legitimate self-defense, and was it unavoidable?
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Old 7th October 2021, 06:43 PM   #120
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These comments prove my point about the bias on this board.

Did I say there didn't need to be any Police reform whatsoever? No.

But, people can't even admit that 100 or less unarmed killed out of 10 million arrests means that the risk is not very great to the average person. In fact, it is incredibly small. This isn't even considering that in 2018, for example, an estimated 61.5 million residents had contact with the Police.

Instead, the general consensus in this forum seems to be "cops are pigs", and "**** tha police". People act and comment as though any interaction with an officer is very possibly going to lead to death, if you don't do everything perfectly.

This is simply not reality. Obviously.
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