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Old 7th October 2021, 07:02 PM   #121
mgidm86
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yet again for the slow kids in the back:

Cops, very wrong. Mistic, possibly a little wrong. Depends a lot on when he pulled in and how far they were apart, and whether he inexplicably ran up to the drivers side window with no means at all of communicating.



...wut? Failed to address what? Hanning was an arrogant jerk.

Btw, it wasn't "his first" question. It was the third. The first was "Running up on us like that?" The second was "Excuse me?"

But you obviously don't understand what the cops jumping and freaking simultaneously means. It means that Mistic likely did abruptly run at the cruiser. Unless you are joining the conspiracy theory that the coppers had it choreographed in advance?



Belz... was right. The trolls have won. Just a general observation.

Let me get a protractor and tape measure before I get out of my car so cops don't beat me up.

There are two cops in the car, you'd think they could formulate a plan so that one always has the others back during such dangerous encounters.

Cops are so bad that "do not reach" kits are now available and recommended so a cop doesn't shoot you while reaching for your registration.

I guess if a bad guy is chasing me I'd better stop running when I see a cop and approach slowly from a safe distance, because I wouldn't wanna "run up on a cop" and get my ass kicked or shot. WTF if I can't run up to a gawdamn cop then what the hell good are they? Who do I think I am?

And that's my problem, not the cops? LOL
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Old 7th October 2021, 07:10 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post

Cops are so bad that "do not reach" kits are now available and recommended so a cop doesn't shoot you while reaching for your registration.
A statement (and product) that simply ignores the facts. But hey, as I say, it is the norm around here.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But, people can't even admit that 100 or less unarmed killed out of 10 million arrests means that the risk is not very great to the average person. In fact, it is incredibly small. This isn't even considering that in 2018, for example, an estimated 61.5 million residents had contact with the Police.

Instead, the general consensus in this forum seems to be "cops are pigs", and "**** tha police". People act and comment as though any interaction with an officer is very possibly going to lead to death, if you don't do everything perfectly.

This is simply not reality. Obviously.
I must be psychic, since my statement came true in the post immediately after the above. Comical.
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Old 7th October 2021, 07:29 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Let me get a protractor and tape measure before I get out of my car so cops don't beat me up.

There are two cops in the car, you'd think they could formulate a plan so that one always has the others back during such dangerous encounters.

Cops are so bad that "do not reach" kits are now available and recommended so a cop doesn't shoot you while reaching for your registration.

I guess if a bad guy is chasing me I'd better stop running when I see a cop and approach slowly from a safe distance, because I wouldn't wanna "run up on a cop" and get my ass kicked or shot. WTF if I can't run up to a gawdamn cop then what the hell good are they? Who do I think I am?

And that's my problem, not the cops? LOL
Tell you what, ducky. You purse your lips and wag your finger at the police while you lecture them on what they should and shouldn't do. I'll come up with some comforting words to read at your closed casket service.

Until meaningful police reform has some legs, Imma go all Bee Gees and focus on Stayin Alive.
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Old 7th October 2021, 07:42 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But, people can't even admit that 100 or less unarmed killed out of 10 million arrests means that the risk is not very great to the average person. In fact, it is incredibly small. This isn't even considering that in 2018, for example, an estimated 61.5 million residents had contact with the Police.

If a fast food chain had a hundred food poisoning deaths per 61.5 million served, would that also be no big deal?
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Old 7th October 2021, 07:48 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
These comments prove my point about the bias on this board.

Did I say there didn't need to be any Police reform whatsoever? No.

But, people can't even admit that 100 or less unarmed killed out of 10 million arrests means that the risk is not very great to the average person. In fact, it is incredibly small. This isn't even considering that in 2018, for example, an estimated 61.5 million residents had contact with the Police.

Instead, the general consensus in this forum seems to be "cops are pigs", and "**** tha police". People act and comment as though any interaction with an officer is very possibly going to lead to death, if you don't do everything perfectly.

This is simply not reality. Obviously.
Yeah, the odds aren't exactly high that you will be killed. The gig is, that the odds are very high that you might be if you don't play your cards right. Most do, so the kill rate is low.

The only times I have had a gun pointed at me in these Great United States were by cops, and that's been several times now. Never was I armed or threatening, and rarely even doing anything remotely wrong. Most often it was because they thought I was a burglar (I check on empty construction sites at odd hours). If I took the forum's self-righteous attitude while staring at the 9's barrel, I'd likely be dead. The back page story would read "Police Shot Attacking Burglar".
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Old 7th October 2021, 07:49 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
If a fast food chain had a hundred food poisoning deaths per 61.5 million served, would that also be no big deal?
Is this supposed to be a contender for a "false equivalency" award? To top that, my statement was that the risk to the average person is incredibly small. That is undisputable.
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Old 7th October 2021, 07:53 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, the odds aren't exactly high that you will be killed. The gig is, that the odds are very high that you might be if you don't play your cards right. Most do, so the kill rate is low.
Given that people are generally prone to idiocy, those cards must be very easy to "play right". Almost like they are generally common sense actions, I'd say.
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:04 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Given that people are generally prone to idiocy, those cards must be very easy to "play right". Almost like they are generally common sense actions, I'd say.
When a cop screams "Police! Show me your hands!", I in fact freeze and show him my hands, so ya.

These hard pipe hittin' mother ******* on the forum, though...they'd march right up to those cops and give him a piece of their mind. Possibly literally, if they ever actually tried it.
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Old 7th October 2021, 09:43 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
When a cop screams "Police! Show me your hands!", I in fact freeze and show him my hands, so ya.
.....
Suppose you were deaf, and you could only see a cop gesturing at you? Or suppose you heard the cop, but he was speaking Urdu? I continue to contend that cops are obligated to figure out what's going on before they go to Defcon 1.
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Old 7th October 2021, 09:48 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Is this supposed to be a contender for a "false equivalency" award? To top that, my statement was that the risk to the average person is incredibly small. That is undisputable.
So what? What level of unjustified police killings would you consider acceptable? And consider that you will likely only find out it was unjustified if somebody made a video. Otherwise, it's "resisting arrest," "heart attack," "drug overdose," "excited delirium," etc., etc. Chauvin would still be on the street without that video.
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Old 7th October 2021, 09:58 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So what? What level of unjustified police killings would you consider acceptable? And consider that you will likely only find out it was unjustified if somebody made a video. Otherwise, it's "resisting arrest," "heart attack," "drug overdose," "excited delirium," etc., etc. Chauvin would still be on the street without that video.
I wouldn’t go to 7-11 if their clerks had shot half as many unarmed people as cops have. And they actually have a dangerous job.
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Old 7th October 2021, 10:05 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So what? What level of unjustified police killings would you consider acceptable? And consider that you will likely only find out it was unjustified if somebody made a video. Otherwise, it's "resisting arrest," "heart attack," "drug overdose," "excited delirium," etc., etc. Chauvin would still be on the street without that video.
You are attempting to normalize the outlier, and weaponize it. It works for the media, after all...just as it works at the ISF, largely.

Who said that unjustified police killings are acceptable?

They clearly are not the norm with police interactions, or even barely a threat to the average person, however. Not even close. It is an extreme anomaly. This is proven, statistically. It is not even up for debate.
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Old 7th October 2021, 10:11 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post

Suppose you were deaf, and you could only see a cop gesturing at you? Or suppose you heard the cop, but he was speaking Urdu? I continue to contend that cops are obligated to figure out what's going on before they go to Defcon 1.
Well, I would definitely act in ways completely the opposite of common sense, to start. After all, I'm deaf...and that affects my brain function, mostly.

LOL, this was not Defcon 1. The whole idea that cops should naturally assume that someone acting irregularly might be deaf, blind or retarded, and thus not raise their guard, is comical.
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Old 7th October 2021, 10:15 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You are attempting to normalize the outlier, and weaponize it. It works for the media, after all...just as it works at the ISF, largely.

Who said that unjustified police killings are acceptable?

They clearly are not the norm with police interactions, or even barely a threat to the average person, however. Not even close. It is an extreme anomaly. This is proven, statistically. It is not even up for debate.
Again, so what? Statistically, few people die in airline accidents. That doesn't prevent us from investigating every one thoroughly, and doing everything we can to prevent the next one. And far more people die at the hands of U.S. cops than in plane crashes.

For that matter, far more people die at the hands of cops in the U.S. than anywhere else in the Western world. It's hard to understand how anyone can minimize that, let alone sneer at it.
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Old 7th October 2021, 10:20 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, I would definitely act in ways completely the opposite of common sense, to start. After all, I'm deaf...and that affects my brain function, mostly.

LOL, this was not Defcon 1. The whole idea that cops should naturally assume that someone acting irregularly might be deaf, blind or retarded, and thus not raise their guard, is comical.
"Raising their guard" means figuring out what's happening, not attacking someone as their default position. And there's just nothing comical about it.
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Old 7th October 2021, 10:21 PM   #136
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For reference, in the years 2017 to 2020, US Police shot and killed 4007 people.

So far in 2021, they have shot and killed 654.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

US police kill more people in days than most other countries police forces do in years.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ther-countries
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Old 7th October 2021, 10:21 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You are attempting to normalize the outlier, and weaponize it. It works for the media, after all...just as it works at the ISF, largely.

Who said that unjustified police killings are acceptable?

They clearly are not the norm with police interactions, or even barely a threat to the average person, however. Not even close. It is an extreme anomaly. This is proven, statistically. It is not even up for debate.
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Again, so what?
You are pretty much driving my point home about people ignoring the statistics as related to overall numbers, and real threat. What we are viewing here is a highly biased, emotional argument...one that I am certain is heavily influenced by the content of popular media narratives.
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Old 7th October 2021, 10:44 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
US police kill more people in days than most other countries police forces do in years.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ther-countries
The comparison of Iceland to Stockton, CA is beautiful. Of course, I don't expect the international contingent of experts to understand the difference.

Quote:
Stockton is one of the most dangerous cities in California. The city experiences crime twice as often as the national average and violent crimes nearly four times more than the national average. There's also high levels of gang activity, high poverty rates, and high unemployment rates in the city.
Quote:
Your chance of being a victim of violent crime in Stockton is 1 in 71 and property crime is 1 in 24.

Iceland, on the other hand, is rated the safest country in the world, for the 13th year in a row.

Talk about false equivalency, LOL.
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Old 7th October 2021, 11:15 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The comparison of Iceland to Stockton, CA is beautiful. Of course, I don't expect the international contingent of experts to understand the difference.






Iceland, on the other hand, is rated the safest country in the world, for the 13th year in a row.

Talk about false equivalency, LOL.

Of course, as I expected, you cherry picked the examples that suit your narrative. You are, if nothing else, entirely predictable.


Nothing new there then
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Old 8th October 2021, 04:25 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The comparison of Iceland to Stockton, CA is beautiful. Of course, I don't expect the international contingent of experts to understand the difference.

Iceland, on the other hand, is rated the safest country in the world, for the 13th year in a row.

Talk about false equivalency, LOL.
Is this comparison closer?

Columbia, Maryland - safest city in the US - Pop. 325,000 - Police scorecard - 5 police killings in 7 years.
Iceland - population 323,000 - 1 police killing in 71 years

Plano, Texas - 3rd safest city in the US - Pop. 288,000 - police scorecard - 3 police killings

Gilbert Arizona - 10th safest city in the US - Pop. 243,000 - police scorecard - 4 police killings
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Old 8th October 2021, 07:34 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
Is this comparison closer?

Columbia, Maryland - safest city in the US - Pop. 325,000 - Police scorecard - 5 police killings in 7 years.
Iceland - population 323,000 - 1 police killing in 71 years

Plano, Texas - 3rd safest city in the US - Pop. 288,000 - police scorecard - 3 police killings

Gilbert Arizona - 10th safest city in the US - Pop. 243,000 - police scorecard - 4 police killings
I don't know. I've been to Columbia, MD...it isn't a utopia. I've never been to Iceland. Different countries, different cultures,.certainly different crime models. Dumb comparisons.

The USA itself is #122 on the safest countries list. Iceland #1.
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Old 8th October 2021, 08:29 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You are pretty much driving my point home about people ignoring the statistics as related to overall numbers, and real threat. What we are viewing here is a highly biased, emotional argument...one that I am certain is heavily influenced by the content of popular media narratives.
What point do you think you are trying to make? Yes, statistically most police-citizen interactions don't result in a killing by a bad cop. Statistically, most trips to the grocery store don't result in multi-car collisions caused by malfunctioning traffic lights. That doesn't mean we should minimize them when they happen, or prevent them when we can.

ETA: And killings aren't the only kind of cop abuse that should worry us. Try to justify this:
Quote:
Body camera footage shows the interaction between Dayton police officers and a paraplegic man who would not exit his vehicle during a traffic stop and was yanked from the car and onto the road.
https://www.daytondailynews.com/crim...PLNDGPEGKBXRM/

And what would the cops be claiming if they weren't caught on video?

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Old 8th October 2021, 08:49 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Is this supposed to be a contender for a "false equivalency" award? To top that, my statement was that the risk to the average person is incredibly small. That is undisputable.

The equivalency is not false. Dead of food poisoning is exactly the same degree of dead as dead from being shot dead by police. The 100 chances of death in 61.5 million contacts is the same in both scenarios. The risk to the average person is small either way.

So, can I presume you would be okay with the 100 food poisoning deaths? You'd be as unsupportive of any corrective measures as you are of police reform?
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Old 8th October 2021, 09:18 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
The equivalency is not false. Dead of food poisoning is exactly the same degree of dead as dead from being shot dead by police. The 100 chances of death in 61.5 million contacts is the same in both scenarios. The risk to the average person is small either way.

So, can I presume you would be okay with the 100 food poisoning deaths? You'd be as unsupportive of any corrective measures as you are of police reform?
Wouldn't that analogy depend on whether the eater's actions knowingly resulted in food poisoning?

If you fight a cop, your chances of being killed go way up. Does the food poisoning victim have the same agency?
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Old 8th October 2021, 10:01 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
....
If you fight a cop, your chances of being killed go way up. Does the food poisoning victim have the same agency?
The problem is that not all police abuse is the result of anybody fighting a cop. George Floyd and Philando Castile and Tamir Rice can't be accused of fighting. The other problem is that the cops apply a peculiar definition of "fighting" that includes any display of anything but immediate and total subservience, sometimes not even then. That doesn't justify assault, let alone killing.
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Old 8th October 2021, 11:56 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
The equivalency is not false. Dead of food poisoning is exactly the same degree of dead as dead from being shot dead by police. The 100 chances of death in 61.5 million contacts is the same in both scenarios. The risk to the average person is small either way.

So, can I presume you would be okay with the 100 food poisoning deaths? You'd be as unsupportive of any corrective measures as you are of police reform?
And it's not just the number of deaths at the hands of police, it's the response. Or lack of.

If there are 100 food poisoning deaths, there is a massive effort to figure out why they occur, and if it is found to be negligence, the person responsible is held accountable.

Heck, that is what we do in my profession, if there is someone who is a problem, we try to get them out of the profession. I'm not saying it's easy, but we don't dismiss it.

But that doesn't happen with police. When you hear about cops doing bad stuff, and it's undeniably bad stuff, the response is just to brush it off as "bad apples." OK, so those cops are bad apples. What are you going to do about them? Well, when it comes to cops, you make them the head of the union, and do things to protect them from the liability of their actions.

When a surgeon screws up and an person dies, the surgeon gets sued into oblivion. A cop screws up and someone dies? QI.

The "it's not common, just a few bad apples" excuse only works if you are trying to get rid of the bad apples. If you leave the bad apples in the barrel, it spoils the whole bunch.

Of course, the problem with cops is that the "good apples" won't even admit the apples are bad, and will lie through their teeth to protect them.
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Old 8th October 2021, 01:27 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
You'd be as unsupportive of any corrective measures as you are of police reform?
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Did I say there didn't need to be any Police reform whatsoever? No.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Who said that unjustified police killings are acceptable?
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Old 8th October 2021, 04:20 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
These hard pipe hittin' mother ******* on the forum, though...they'd march right up to those cops and give him a piece of their mind. Possibly literally, if they ever actually tried it.
No worries about that ever happening. The internet SJW doesn't concern themselves with taking a real-life stand on anything. They mostly just focus on statistically fringe causes and ignore areas of much greater concern. This way they can't be held accountable for affecting any real change.
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Old 11th October 2021, 10:32 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
And it's not just the number of deaths at the hands of police, it's the response. Or lack of.

If there are 100 food poisoning deaths, there is a massive effort to figure out why they occur, and if it is found to be negligence, the person responsible is held accountable.

Heck, that is what we do in my profession, if there is someone who is a problem, we try to get them out of the profession. I'm not saying it's easy, but we don't dismiss it.

But that doesn't happen with police. When you hear about cops doing bad stuff, and it's undeniably bad stuff, the response is just to brush it off as "bad apples." OK, so those cops are bad apples. What are you going to do about them? Well, when it comes to cops, you make them the head of the union, and do things to protect them from the liability of their actions.

When a surgeon screws up and an person dies, the surgeon gets sued into oblivion. A cop screws up and someone dies? QI.

The "it's not common, just a few bad apples" excuse only works if you are trying to get rid of the bad apples. If you leave the bad apples in the barrel, it spoils the whole bunch.

Of course, the problem with cops is that the "good apples" won't even admit the apples are bad, and will lie through their teeth to protect them.

If there are a dozen cases of food contamination that result in a few deaths there will be a massive effort be local, state, and federal agencies to find the cause and close down any factory or outlet having anything to do with it.

Acording to Warp12 we should either be extensively closing down and investigating thousands of precincts in the US, or fast food employees need to be making at least as much as the average police officer, including benefits.

I agree.

Also, the food service employees actually have a dangerous job, unlike cops.
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