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Old 9th October 2021, 09:56 AM   #41
Thermal
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So this is interesting.

Police did not randomly stop Owensby (the paraplegic driver). A drug house in the neighborhood was under surveillance by the Narcotics squad. Guess who stopped there and paid a visit immediately prior to the stop? Go on, guess.

The duffel bag full of cash was on the front seat floor. The dog sniffed it not because he was trained to smell cash, but because it had residual drug scent on it, meaning it was recently near drugs.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuKqFS...ature=youtu.be
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:00 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
You may already believe that for whatever reason, but it would be silly to conclude it from the passage of yours I quoted earlier:

In my life I've gotten three traffic tickets - two for speeding when I was younger, and one for an expired plate. I've also had a few traffic stops where I was given warnings - not using a turn signal, an expired inspection sticker, and various burnt-out light bulbs. Each time, the officer checked my license and insurance, gave me the ticket or verbal warning at my window, and sent me on - yes, even with the expired plate. I never had to "step out of the vehicle" for any of these trivial traffic stops.
It's weird that you quoted that whole thing but apparently didn't comprehend it.
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:07 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Police did not randomly stop Owensby (the paraplegic driver). A drug house in the neighborhood was under surveillance by the Narcotics squad. Guess who stopped there and paid a visit immediately prior to the stop? Go on, guess.
The black man who, a month and a half later, still isn't charged with a crime?
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:07 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's weird that you quoted that whole thing but apparently didn't comprehend it.
I completely comprehended it. That’s how I know your argument fails.
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:09 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's weird that you quoted that whole thing but apparently didn't comprehend it.
Were you driving a luxury Audi away from a drug house under surveillance by the Narcotics squad, with prior drug and weapons convictions when you were stopped at any of those times?
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:13 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The black man who, a month and a half later, still isn't charged with a crime?
He was charged with the moving violation offenses. Seems they got him when he was leaving the drug house with cash, which I'm totally sure had nothing to do with his visit.

Sounds like this story might have had a different ending if they stopped him on the way *to* the unregulated pharmacy. Might have had something different on the front floorboards. Or maybe he was just collecting? Nice of him to bring the toddler along for the ride.
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:21 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Were you driving a luxury Audi away from a drug house under surveillance by the Narcotics squad, with prior drug and weapons convictions when you were stopped at any of those times?
The late admission by the police that he had recently been to "a suspected drug house" certainly adds the missing piece to the puzzle. It verifies my original suspicion that the original claimed reason for the stop - a traffic violation, for "tinted windows" - was completely bogus and pretextual. If that had been the true reason for the stop, there would have been no reason to pull the driver out and search the car, which was the point of my shared experience.

"Leaving a house where drugs are suspected to be dealt" isn't a violation of anything; police are technically not allowed to stop somebody for that reason, so they have to lie about the purpose of the stop in their report in order to make it "legal". Do you now understand what I'm saying?
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:22 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
He was charged with the moving violation offenses. Seems they got him when he was leaving the drug house with cash, which I'm totally sure had nothing to do with his visit.

Sounds like this story might have had a different ending if they stopped him on the way *to* the unregulated pharmacy. Might have had something different on the front floorboards. Or maybe he was just collecting? Nice of him to bring the toddler along for the ride.
Obviously a black man with a luxury car and a large amount of cash on hand is guilty of something, right? We just have to find out what it is.
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:32 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The late admission by the police that he had recently been to "a suspected drug house" certainly adds the missing piece to the puzzle. It verifies my original suspicion that the original claimed reason for the stop - a traffic violation, for "tinted windows" - was completely bogus and pretextual. If that had been the true reason for the stop, there would have been no reason to pull the driver out and search the car, which was the point of my shared experience.

"Leaving a house where drugs are suspected to be dealt" isn't a violation of anything; police are technically not allowed to stop somebody for that reason, so they have to lie about the purpose of the stop in their report in order to make it "legal". Do you now understand what I'm saying?
Of course I understand. Oddly, I understood before even reading your post.

Do you think it unreasonable for police to use any legal pretext available to pull over a luxury car leaving a drug house under active surveillance? See, that doesn't bother me much. Just like stopping a guy for a dirty license plate who has been perfectly legally circling a grade school for hours in a van. Especially if the van turned out to have a perfectly legal duffel bag with duct tape, chloroform, rags and rope on the front seat.

Eta: this "late addition" also confirmed my suspicion and that of others: this was not a random stop, or because he was black. The cops wanted him specifically. I thought it might be because he was a known character. Turns out it was because the known character was just leaving the known trading post.
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:35 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Obviously a black man with a luxury car and a large amount of cash on hand is guilty of something, right? We just have to find out what it is.
You seem to keep glossing over that "leaving a drug house under surveillance with a bag full of tens of thousands of dollars in cash which reaks of drugs" thing out.

Btw, a lot of us don't associate black guys with drug dealers. In my neck of the woods, it's the white biker gangs and some Latino gangs, mostly. Sounds more like your personal association.
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Old 9th October 2021, 11:37 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Of course I understand. Oddly, I understood before even reading your post.

Do you think it unreasonable for police to use any legal pretext available to pull over a luxury car leaving a drug house under active surveillance? See, that doesn't bother me much. Just like stopping a guy for a dirty license plate who has been perfectly legally circling a grade school for hours in a van. Especially if the van turned out to have a perfectly legal duffel bag with duct tape, chloroform, rags and rope on the front seat.
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You seem to keep glossing over that "leaving a drug house under surveillance with a bag full of tens of thousands of dollars in cash which reaks of drugs" thing out.

Btw, a lot of us don't associate black guys with drug dealers. In my neck of the woods, it's the white biker gangs and some Latino gangs, mostly. Sounds more like your personal association.
Sure, if you say so; but a black person leaving a "suspected drug house under surveillance" is clearly in your estimation associated enough with "drug dealers" that you think it's okay for police to make up a reason to stop him just to search him for the "drugs" that are "suspected" to be dealt at the house - and, just as clearly in your estimation, remains guilty even if police don't find any evidence of wrongdoing. Yeah yeah, I know you keep going on about money with alleged drug residue on it but there's a specific reason that means precisely dick and wasn't used to charge the man with a crime. It's safe to say that they couldn't even use it as probable cause to raid the house itself - or if they did, they didn't find anything; because now a month and a half later they're openly telling the public that it was "a suspected drug house" and not "a known drug house".

The thing that you and most people who think like you tend to "gloss over" whenever a black person is abused by police but decide that's perfectly okay because they recently visited what police call a "suspected drug house" (or lived next door to one, or had a boyfriend who lived at one, etc, etc) and thus obviously had it coming to them is that "drug houses" are, funnily enough, houses. People live at them. Sleep and eat meals and take baths and brush their teeth and watch TV and play video games at them. Children leave them in the morning to go to school and come home to them afterwards. Postmen deliver mail to them; utility workers come by to read the meter. Despite what you may think, the people who live at them are 100% human; they have friends and lovers and coworkers and extended family members who from time to time may come and visit them at the place where they live, for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with drugs.

This appears to be just such a case, if it ever even was a "drug house". The cops stopped this car clearly thinking they had just busted their case wide open. They dragged the disabled man out of the car by his hair without a second thought because they were certain beyond any reasonable doubt there were drugs in the car and now that they would be able to proudly announce the breakup of a "drug ring" nobody would really care how the perpetrators were handled. Unfortunately for them, they struck out completely. They didn't find a damn thing - they abused an innocent man; and now the public is angry about it, so for damage control they throw out a little line about how "the money smelled like drugs" to imply that he's guilty of something, and just kind of quietly lead the conversation away the damning fact that they couldn't actually arrest or charge him with anything, and evidently had to give up on the house completely for whatever reason. And you buy it hook, line, and sinker. As intended, this guy will forever be guilty in your mind because he had visited a "suspected drug house", and that nothing factually incriminating was ever found is no never-mind to you because the police say "his money smelled like drugs" and that's all you need to know.
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Old 9th October 2021, 11:44 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The original offense was tinted windows (and, many of us suspect, "driving while black").
I see a few cars around with illegal window tints, and I couldn't tell you what colour the driver is 100% of the time.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So this is interesting.

Police did not randomly stop Owensby (the paraplegic driver). A drug house in the neighborhood was under surveillance by the Narcotics squad. Guess who stopped there and paid a visit immediately prior to the stop? Go on, guess.

The duffel bag full of cash was on the front seat floor. The dog sniffed it not because he was trained to smell cash, but because it had residual drug scent on it, meaning it was recently near drugs.
But he was stopped because he was black...

This stuff gets absurd very quickly. The guy was basically begging to be stopped on any available pretext.

What we actually have is a story about a guy who got thrown out of his car because he's a complete dumb-arse. Boo hoo.

Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Obviously a black man with a luxury car and a large amount of cash on hand is guilty of something, right? We just have to find out what it is.
What a crock.

What you're really trying to say is:

Obviously a black man with a luxury car and a large amount of cash leaving a drug dealer already under surveillance should be exempt from being stopped because some White Saviour will call it racism if the cops grab him.
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Old 9th October 2021, 01:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Obviously a black man with a luxury car and a large amount of cash leaving a drug dealer already under surveillance should be exempt from being stopped because some White Saviour will call it racism if the cops grab him.
Again, much like the scientific term "theory", White Savior already has a specific definition, and rhetorical misuse like this is indicative of bad faith.
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Old 9th October 2021, 03:04 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I see a few cars around with illegal window tints, and I couldn't tell you what colour the driver is 100% of the time.
.....
Often the tint is only applied to the rear windows. But the issue is how the police treated the driver after they stopped him. A middle-aged white guy might have been treated differently.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
.....
What we actually have is a story about a guy who got thrown out of his car because he's a complete dumb-arse. Boo hoo.
....
Whether they had grounds to stop him is one issue. Cops are pretty good at finding reasons to stop anybody they want. Dragging a paraplegic out of his car and throwing him on the ground is a different issue. Even if they needed to remove him from his car -- and even that is questionable -- there is no reason why the cops couldn't have called EMTs to do it right and provide a wheelchair. Even if the welfare of a citizen doesn't matter to the cops, they should have been thinking about their legal liability if they made the driver's condition worse. And now they're getting sued.

This is nothing but another, too-frequent case of "contempt of cop."

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Old 9th October 2021, 03:49 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
.....
What we actually have is a story about a guy who got thrown out of his car because he's a complete dumb-arse. Boo hoo.
.....
NBC has bodycam footage of the assault, apparently edited by police to show them at their best. The driver is asking bystanders to call "the real police." Let us know if you're proud of our boys in blue.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-ohio-n1281148

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Old 9th October 2021, 05:39 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So this is interesting.

Police did not randomly stop Owensby (the paraplegic driver). A drug house in the neighborhood was under surveillance by the Narcotics squad. Guess who stopped there and paid a visit immediately prior to the stop? Go on, guess.

The duffel bag full of cash was on the front seat floor. The dog sniffed it not because he was trained to smell cash, but because it had residual drug scent on it, meaning it was recently near drugs.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuKqFS...ature=youtu.be
The black man is still a victim.
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Old 9th October 2021, 05:41 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
He was charged with the moving violation offenses. Seems they got him when he was leaving the drug house with cash, which I'm totally sure had nothing to do with his visit.

Sounds like this story might have had a different ending if they stopped him on the way *to* the unregulated pharmacy. Might have had something different on the front floorboards. Or maybe he was just collecting? Nice of him to bring the toddler along for the ride.
Are you criticizing a black man for wanting to spend more time with his children?
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Old 9th October 2021, 06:05 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A middle-aged white guy might have been treated differently.
He might not have, too.

The cop is clearly a pig and might treat everyone the same in the same circumstances.

Immediately labelling it racist is baloney, though. This forum used to use evidence to decide what's happening, rather than the present knee-jerk screeching "Racism!1!!" we see in a large number of threads right now.
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Old 9th October 2021, 06:20 PM   #59
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I'm a middle aged white guy. I have 3 marijuana convictions, and a felony (non drug, weapon or violence related). I had a spat of being pulled into because I didn't transfer the title to a vehicle I bought about 4 months ago. I was pulled into about a half dozen times. My side windows are also blacked out.

Never got searched, never got asked to leave the car, never even got a ticket.

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Old 9th October 2021, 06:22 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
He might not have, too.



The cop is clearly a pig and might treat everyone the same in the same circumstances.



Immediately labelling it racist is baloney, though. This forum used to use evidence to decide what's happening, rather than the present knee-jerk screeching "Racism!1!!" we see in a large number of threads right now.
I love it when you guys romanticize the past.

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Old 9th October 2021, 06:44 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I'm a middle aged white guy. I have 3 marijuana convictions, and a felony (non drug, weapon or violence related). I had a spat of being pulled into because I didn't transfer the title to a vehicle I bought about 4 months ago. I was pulled into about a half dozen times. My side windows are also blacked out.

Never got searched, never got asked to leave the car, never even got a ticket.

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Do you spend a lot of time hanging out at drug dens that are under surveillance? People act like law enforcement is stupid. They had a valid reason to pull him over, and clearly some suspicions that anyone with common sense knows were valid.

Now I'm going to watch the video again so I can laugh while listening to him squeal like a little girl.
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Old 9th October 2021, 06:49 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...never even got a ticket.
So, you weren't breaking the law and didn't have any hassles as a result.

Cool story bro.
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Old 9th October 2021, 07:26 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Do you spend a lot of time hanging out at drug dens that are under surveillance? People act like law enforcement is stupid. They had a valid reason to pull him over, and clearly some suspicions that anyone with common sense knows were valid.
...except they weren't, because the guy was never charged with anything and the house was apparently never raided either.
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Old 9th October 2021, 07:44 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Do you spend a lot of time hanging out at drug dens that are under surveillance? People act like law enforcement is stupid. They had a valid reason to pull him over, and clearly some suspicions that anyone with common sense knows were valid.
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
...except they weren't, because the guy was never charged with anything and the house was apparently never raided either.
Speaking from experience, every time I roll out from a drug den with $22k in my car, I am up to no good. Maybe things work differently in your neighborhood. Yeah, nothing to see here. Just bad luck for this guy, I guess.
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:28 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Speaking from experience, every time I roll out from a drug den with $22k in my car, I am up to no good. Maybe things work differently in your neighborhood. Yeah, nothing to see here. Just bad luck for this guy, I guess.
I know three guys who carry that much cash, and would you believe it, they're all drug dealers. One of them is a white bloke who looks like Sheldon Cooper, and he got caught by the cops when he was speeding while carrying 3 kgs of cannabis. They didn't need a dog to smell that load.
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:35 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Sure, if you say so; but a black person leaving a "suspected drug house under surveillance" is clearly in your estimation associated enough with "drug dealers" that you think it's okay for police to make up a reason to stop him just to search him for the "drugs" that are "suspected" to be dealt at the house - and, just as clearly in your estimation, remains guilty even if police don't find any evidence of wrongdoing.
Not guilty just because he was at a surveilled 'alleged' drug house. Not guilty because he had prior heroin convictions and weapons convictions. Not guilty because he had a bag with tens of thousands in cash on the floorboard. Its more of those three together that makes me think it's hard to come to another conclusion without stretching credibility.

Quote:
Yeah yeah, I know you keep going on about money with alleged drug residue on it but there's a specific reason that means precisely dick and wasn't used to charge the man with a crime.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trace coke on bills is breaking news from the 1980's.

My issue is a bag of $22K+ in cash on the floor of the car at all. We are not children, here.

But let's have some fun with that: a stack of $100 bills totaling $23,000 is about an inch high. Fits neatly in a Ziplock sandwich baggie. Not exactly a "large bag filled with cash". Sounds more like smaller denominations. What was he doing with a bag full of tens of thousands in small bills? Just finished collecting on the World's Largest Paper Route? Preparing for a six month stay at a go-go bar? Just once, can we not act like imbeciles?

Quote:
It's safe to say that they couldn't even use it as probable cause to raid the house itself - or if they did, they didn't find anything; because now a month and a half later they're openly telling the public that it was "a suspected drug house" and not "a known drug house".
Ok, that's at least the second time you have claimed "a month and a half". I'll bite: the pull over was on September 30. This very year, btw. Not to get all linear time on you, but do you know the date today?

Quote:
The thing that you and most people who think like you tend to "gloss over" whenever a black person is abused by police but decide that's perfectly okay because they recently visited what police call a "suspected drug house" (or lived next door to one, or had a boyfriend who lived at one, etc, etc) and thus obviously had it coming to them is that "drug houses" are, funnily enough, houses. People live at them. Sleep and eat meals and take baths and brush their teeth and watch TV and play video games at them. Children leave them in the morning to go to school and come home to them afterwards. Postmen deliver mail to them; utility workers come by to read the meter. Despite what you may think, the people who live at them are 100% human; they have friends and lovers and coworkers and extended family members who from time to time may come and visit them at the place where they live, for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with drugs.
This is why I love you, man. Now hommes has finished collecting from the World's Largest paper Route and has stopped to see Granny at the meth lab.

Quote:
This appears to be just such a case, if it ever even was a "drug house". The cops stopped this car clearly thinking they had just busted their case wide open. They dragged the disabled man out of the car by his hair without a second thought because they were certain beyond any reasonable doubt there were drugs in the car and now that they would be able to proudly announce the breakup of a "drug ring" nobody would really care how the perpetrators were handled. Unfortunately for them, they struck out completely. They didn't find a damn thing - they abused an innocent man; and now the public is angry about it, so for damage control they throw out a little line about how "the money smelled like drugs" to imply that he's guilty of something, and just kind of quietly lead the conversation away the damning fact that they couldn't actually arrest or charge him with anything, and evidently had to give up on the house completely for whatever reason. And you buy it hook, line, and sinker. As intended, this guy will forever be guilty in your mind because he had visited a "suspected drug house", and that nothing factually incriminating was ever found is no never-mind to you because the police say "his money smelled like drugs" and that's all you need to know.
No, baby, until it is satisfactorily explained why he has over $22K in cash in a ******* bag on the ******* floor of the car, I will be highly suspicious regarding his involvement in the Undocumented Pharmaceutical Industry.

The stories all note that Owensby "says" he is a paraplegic. Ok. Handicapped tags? Wheelchair in the trunk? Modified car to drive without the use of legs? It's being glossed over that no proof has even been shown, although that should be an easy layup. Again, he didn't say to the cop that he needed a wheelchair. He said he wasn't getting out. Or actually "couldn't", which is a lie. He got in, and he can get out. He might need a chair, but he didn't even think to mention that, did he? If I was a cop, I might be suspicious of that too.
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:36 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
.....
Now I'm going to watch the video again so I can laugh while listening to him squeal like a little girl.
You don't seem to get that if the cops can do it to anybody, they can do it to you, too. Officer Friendly might not find you as entertaining as you seem to find yourself.
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:41 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
.....
My issue is a bag of $22K+ in cash on the floor of the car at all. We are not children, here.
.....
The issue isn't what cops suspect. They pretty much suspect everybody of something. The issue is what can they prove in court. It's astonishing to me that people who call themselves conservatives want to hand so much power to street cops.
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:50 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
.....
The stories all note that Owensby "says" he is a paraplegic. Ok. Handicapped tags? Wheelchair in the trunk? Modified car to drive without the use of legs? It's being glossed over that no proof has even been shown, although that should be an easy layup. Again, he didn't say to the cop that he needed a wheelchair. He said he wasn't getting out. Or actually "couldn't", which is a lie. He got in, and he can get out. He might need a chair, but he didn't even think to mention that, did he? If I was a cop, I might be suspicious of that too.
Aw, c'mon. If there was a shred of evidence that the guy was lying about his condition, don't you think the police department would have said so by now? Is he supposed to travel with his medical records? What would the cops have lost by calling an ambulance to deal with him? Let's hope they don't tase somebody as he screams "I have a heart condition!"
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:56 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The issue isn't what cops suspect. They pretty much suspect everybody of something. The issue is what can they prove in court. It's astonishing to me that people who call themselves conservatives want to hand so much power to street cops.
What are you talking about? Look at the title of the thread. The issue here is whether this is a couple of racist cops that randomly were cruel to a paraplegic black man, or whether it was a couple cops who were right on in nailing a player, but at the wrong time (although they did score $22K).

Actually, my money is on Owensby being a mule for moving money, not the dealer himself. But irrelevant. Do you think this is a case of a couple Klansmen Kops busting random black paraplegic's balls or more of an improvised sting that missed the mark?
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Old 9th October 2021, 09:06 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Aw, c'mon. If there was a shred of evidence that the guy was lying about his condition, don't you think the police department would have said so by now? Is he supposed to travel with his medical records? What would the cops have lost by calling an ambulance to deal with him? Let's hope they don't tase somebody as he screams "I have a heart condition!"
I know, I know. I would normally never question it, but on this one every single article says "Owensby says he is a paraplegic". It's really odd wording, to mean nothing.

In the video, Owensby clearly lifts his knee on his left leg up to his head level. Not only not what I would think of as paraplegic, but downright agile. He can also evidently use his feet to operate the pedals. Maybe he is a self-proclaimed partial paraplegic? As in, he has trouble moving his middle toe independently?

Does he have a wheelchair and assistance waiting for him at every destination he might go to? Oh, that's what he needs all that small denomination cash for: tipping the assistants he has scattered at all his possible destinations. It's all coming together now.
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Old 9th October 2021, 09:40 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I know, I know. I would normally never question it, but on this one every single article says "Owensby says he is a paraplegic". It's really odd wording, to mean nothing.
.....
That's standard responsible journalism. The reporter doesn't know whether he's paraplegic, or whether he might actually have some other severe medical condition, or whether he's just lying. Maybe the guy's lawyer will release his medical records. But in any news story most statements of fact are attributed to somebody: "Police said....," "tax records reveal....," "the mayoral candidate alleged..." etc., etc.

The original link has a picture of his sister pushing him in a wheelchair. That should count for something. Not too many people keep spare wheelchairs lying around for show.
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Old 9th October 2021, 09:52 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That's standard responsible journalism. The reporter doesn't know whether he's paraplegic, or whether he might actually have some other severe medical condition, or whether he's just lying. Maybe the guy's lawyer will release his medical records. But in any news story most statements of fact are attributed to somebody: "Police said....," "tax records reveal....," "the mayoral candidate alleged..." etc., etc.

The original link has a picture of his sister pushing him in a wheelchair. That should count for something. Not too many people keep spare wheelchairs lying around for show.
I could provide you a picture of me in a wheelchair within 3 minutes, and I don't even have one.

But that's the least of the issues here. Maybe he was buying a wheelchair with that 22 large, and the seller wanted to lay naked on a bed of cash, so large amount in small denominations? This guy is a real philanthropist.
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Old 9th October 2021, 09:58 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trace coke on bills is breaking news from the 1980's.

My issue is a bag of $22K+ in cash on the floor of the car at all. We are not children, here.

But let's have some fun with that: a stack of $100 bills totaling $23,000 is about an inch high. Fits neatly in a Ziplock sandwich baggie. Not exactly a "large bag filled with cash". Sounds more like smaller denominations. What was he doing with a bag full of tens of thousands in small bills? Just finished collecting on the World's Largest Paper Route? Preparing for a six month stay at a go-go bar? Just once, can we not act like imbeciles?
The police using the statement "a large bag filled with cash" may have given you an impression that doesn't match the facts - again, as with the word "drug house", perhaps deliberately.

In the video I see a small gift bag on the passenger side floor of his car. Whatever's inside the bag is small enough that it can't be seen and doesn't affect the shape of the bag. There could easily be a single one-inch stack of bills inside it. Or maybe two stacks of 50's. Or maybe there is a great big ol' red Santa Sack in the BACK seat of the car that's filled with 1's and 5's, and that's the "large bag" they were talking about. I'm not sure what the relevance is of exactly what sorts of denominations the money is in.

At any rate, you should know that there are some people who don't use banks - either because they don't trust them, or due to things like bad credit they simply can't get a bank account even if they try. These people have no choice but to carry around cash, even large sums of it, particularly right after cashing pay checks or settlements. Or if they're on the way to buying something in cash, like a car or other high-value item. Medical and handicap-accessibility equipment in particular can be extremely expensive and insurance doesn't always pay for it.

So kindly cut the act where you suggest that it's stupid or dishonest or childish to not agree with you that the only reasonable explanation for a person carrying $20k in cash is drug-related. He wasn't charged with anything for having the money, and we already know these particular cops would have gladly "fudged" the facts a little in order to charge him with something if there was any way they could, because they already did just that in order to stop him to begin with ("suspicion of tinted window", remember); so quite simply the burden of proof is on those who claim the most likely explanation to explain the presence of cash is something illegal. Go ahead - I'll wait.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok, that's at least the second time you have claimed "a month and a half". I'll bite: the pull over was on September 30. This very year, btw. Not to get all linear time on you, but do you know the date today?
Oh indeed, it looks like I have gotten the date wrong all this time. In that case, the police have given up on the "suspected drug house" mere days after this joke of a stop, not even a month. You would think the police would use his "drug-scented money" as a pretext to immediately raid the house, find the "drugs" he just sold to whoever was there, and come up with some actual charges of...something. Anything. But golly-gee goshums wouldn'cha just know it, they clearly came up with a great big goose-egg. I guess the whole darn thing really was a "bust" after all, just not the kind police like to get.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
This is why I love you, man. Now hommes has finished collecting from the World's Largest paper Route and has stopped to see Granny at the meth lab.
What's a "hommes"?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No, baby, until it is satisfactorily explained why he has over $22K in cash in a ******* bag on the ******* floor of the car, I will be highly suspicious regarding his involvement in the Undocumented Pharmaceutical Industry.
I think I get it now; the "burden of proof" is a foreign concept to you. It would take more effort than I'm willing to expend to explain the idea to you; just look it up somewhere. Or, don't - that's fine too, it's not like I'm the Argument Police.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The stories all note that Owensby "says" he is a paraplegic. Ok. Handicapped tags? Wheelchair in the trunk? Modified car to drive without the use of legs? It's being glossed over that no proof has even been shown, although that should be an easy layup.
This is an understandable mistake from someone who is not familiar with the kinds of equipment used by disabled people; but the vehicle modification can actually be readily seen in the police body-cam video itself. It's called a "stick-hand control", and it allows the driver to operate the floor pedals by hand. In the video, you can see the device's handgrip laying on the driver's right leg, along with the shafts and the mounts where they are clamped to the pedals.
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:24 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
At any rate, you should know that there are some people who don't use banks - either because they don't trust them, or due to things like bad credit they simply can't get a bank account even if they try. These people have no choice but to carry around cash, even large sums of it, particularly right after cashing pay checks or settlements. Or if they're on the way to buying something in cash, like a car or other high-value item. Medical and handicap-accessibility equipment in particular can be extremely expensive and insurance doesn't always pay for it.
LMFAO.
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:44 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The police using the statement "a large bag filled with cash" may have given you an impression that doesn't match the facts - again, as with the word "drug house", perhaps deliberately.

In the video I see a small gift bag on the passenger side floor of his car. Whatever's inside the bag is small enough that it can't be seen and doesn't affect the shape of the bag. There could easily be a single one-inch stack of bills inside it. Or maybe two stacks of 50's. Or maybe there is a great big ol' red Santa Sack in the BACK seat of the car that's filled with 1's and 5's, and that's the "large bag" they were talking about. I'm not sure what the relevance is of exactly what sorts of denominations the money is in.
The police said the bag with the $22K was on the front floor. Nothing about Santa bags in the back seat.

There is one bag visible, a Target single use shopping bag. Not considered a gift bag amongst the normies. Do you give gifts wrapped in throwaway shopping bags? To each his own I suppose.

Quote:
At any rate, you should know that there are some people who don't use banks - either because they don't trust them, or due to things like bad credit they simply can't get a bank account even if they try. These people have no choice but to carry around cash, even large sums of it, particularly right after cashing pay checks or settlements. Or if they're on the way to buying something in cash, like a car or other high-value item. Medical and handicap-accessibility equipment in particular can be extremely expensive and insurance doesn't always pay for it.
Oh please. No, no one is forced to put tens of thousands of dollars in throwaway bags on the floor of their car. Which is a pretty bangin' Audi, BTW. My man appears to have the means for a bag or briefcase or Euro man-purse. Ya know who moves large sums in small denominations and shoves it in shopping bags? That's right: people buying medical equipment.

Quote:
So kindly cut the act where you suggest that it's stupid or dishonest or childish to not agree with you that the only reasonable explanation for a person carrying $20k in cash is drug-related. He wasn't charged with anything for having the money, and we already know these particular cops would have gladly "fudged" the facts a little in order to charge him with something if there was any way they could, because they already did just that in order to stop him to begin with ("suspicion of tinted window", remember); so quite simply the burden of proof is on those who claim the most likely explanation to explain the presence of cash is something illegal. Go ahead - I'll wait.
Hey, remember the first part of the post you are replying to? You know, the part you took the time to snip out? Your answer was in there. To repeat: it's not one factor; it's the pile of them coming together with the same theme. The police were trying to make a drug bust. Every element here is consistent with someone involved, without adding on wacky unevidenced alternative explanations.

Quote:
Oh indeed, it looks like I have gotten the date wrong all this time. In that case, the police have given up on the "suspected drug house" mere days after this joke of a stop, not even a month. You would think the police would use his "drug-scented money" as a pretext to immediately raid the house, find the "drugs" he just sold to whoever was there, and come up with some actual charges of...something. Anything. But golly-gee goshums wouldn'cha just know it, they clearly came up with a great big goose-egg. I guess the whole darn thing really was a "bust" after all, just not the kind police like to get.
Yeah, duh. The drugs and other evidence were likely getting cleared out before they had Owensby out of the car. You think dealers are not in communication, and know when things are going south? By the time they got a warrant to raid, that place would be as squeaky clean as a parsonage. And the cops know it.

Quote:
What's a "hommes"?
Vous ne parlez pas le francais? C'est tres gauche.

Quote:
This is an understandable mistake from someone who is not familiar with the kinds of equipment used by disabled people; but the vehicle modification can actually be readily seen in the police body-cam video itself. It's called a "stick-hand control", and it allows the driver to operate the floor pedals by hand. In the video, you can see the device's handgrip laying on the driver's right leg, along with the shafts and the mounts where they are clamped to the pedals.
You're right; I see it now. Seems Owensby has full or at least most of the use of his left leg, from the movement in the video, and the right is worse? Makes sense with the pedals, which are right foot controlled.

So what you are proposing here is that Owensby could not get a lockbox for money, or put it in the trunk, or anything else, but a shopping bag makes sense to you. And he was going to visit granny in the meth lab...on his way to purchase some expensive medical equipment...that he was going to carry in the Audi...without the toddler in a car seat. I guess he was saving a lot of money, what with not buying a car seat or briefcase.
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Old 10th October 2021, 01:06 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The police said the bag with the $22K was on the front floor. Nothing about Santa bags in the back seat.

There is one bag visible, a Target single use shopping bag. Not considered a gift bag amongst the normies. Do you give gifts wrapped in throwaway shopping bags? To each his own I suppose.
Whatever kind of bag you personally call it, it's certainly not what I would call "large". And you have no idea what denomination of money was inside it.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Oh please. No, no one is forced to put tens of thousands of dollars in throwaway bags on the floor of their car. Which is a pretty bangin' Audi, BTW. My man appears to have the means for a bag or briefcase or Euro man-purse. Ya know who moves large sums in small denominations and shoves it in shopping bags? That's right: people buying medical equipment.
lol - "moving large sums".

I fondly remember the time I "moved a large sum" about six years ago, when I carried $8,500 in cash in an envelope in my hands as a then-neighbor gave me a ride to the used car dealership so I could buy my present vehicle, an '06 Pontiac G6. I have no idea if that person was into, you know, drugs or drug dealing or things of that nature, but I suppose I'd be branded a drug dealer associate forever if it just so happened that was the day the cops finally swooped in to roll him up and there I am, sitting right next to him in his "drug car", with an envelope full of thousands of dollars in "small denominations" right there in my lap and not even a "lockbox" to carry it in.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Hey, remember the first part of the post you are replying to? You know, the part you took the time to snip out? Your answer was in there. To repeat: it's not one factor; it's the pile of them coming together with the same theme. The police were trying to make a drug bust. Every element here is consistent with someone involved, without adding on wacky unevidenced alternative explanations.
And yet....the man wasn't charged with anything. "Every element", even together in one place, was absolutely nothing illegal. That's so strange, because I was almost certain that buying and/or selling drugs was illegal, and that the proceeds of those sales were contraband.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, duh. The drugs and other evidence were likely getting cleared out before they had Owensby out of the car. You think dealers are not in communication, and know when things are going south? By the time they got a warrant to raid, that place would be as squeaky clean as a parsonage. And the cops know it.
And who's fault is that? Maybe the boneheads who had the place "under surveillance" should've picked someone besides the guy carrying nothing remotely illegal to send the Phony Traffic Stop Squad after. Or maybe it wouldn't have mattered who they sent the Phony Traffic Stop Squad after, because nobody really ever left that house with any drugs.

But police incompetence aside, the fact of the matter remains that they didn't find anything, so now you have to engage in conspiracy-theorist thinking and build a world of facts-not-in-evidence, like a web of associates who were monitoring everything behind the scenes and conveniently made all the evidence disappear from their drug-house-that-was-presently-under-police-surveillance, magically transforming your missing evidence into proof that something definitely happened. And this magicking away of the evidence was indeed so thorough that the police themselves even forgot to charge the man in the Audi, who had a previous drug charge already, with anything whatsoever despite the fat stacks of denominatedly-small, illegal-drugs-encrusted, grocery-bag-encased drug-money they found on the floor of his drug-car which were so clearly and indisputably the proceeds of a drug-sale that to even suggest there's a possible alternative explanation is just outrageous and childish.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Vous ne parlez pas le francais? C'est tres gauche.
No I don't. Why are you speaking French now?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So what you are proposing here is that Owensby could not get a lockbox for money, or put it in the trunk, or anything else, but a shopping bag makes sense to you.
What is your major hangup over this bag, is this like a class thing or something? This is just a bizarrely arbitrary objection; people reuse plastic grocery bags all the time for every imaginable purpose. If he has been saving this money at home for a long time in anticipation of a single major purchase, larger than the usual amounts of cash he carries around, never having to "move" it before now when it's time to use it, he wouldn't necessarily have a "lock box" or a briefcase on-hand to use - I certainly don't own either one of those things. Why would he need to buy something ostentatious or exceptional or attention-grabbing, something he doesn't anticipate ever needing to use again, for the sole and only purpose of holding this money for an hour or so while he carries it to whoever he plans to give it to? Does just putting the money in a grocery bag cause it to go bad or rotten or something? It does the job, does it not? Don't you think that it's drug-dealers, people who are ostensibly accustomed to "moving large amounts a money" as a definitional function of their business, who would be more likely to have special or "more secure" means of transporting their illegal proceeds since they have to do it regularly?

And the guy can't easily get in and out of his car without assistance, so...it doesn't take a stretch to figure out why he may prefer to carry the cash at hand where he can easily see it and get to it immediately when the need arises, rather than get to wherever he's going and have to get the vendor to carry him to his trunk so he can get the money out of it.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And he was going to visit granny in the meth lab...on his way to purchase some expensive medical equipment...that he was going to carry in the Audi...without the toddler in a car seat. I guess he was saving a lot of money, what with not buying a car seat or briefcase.
Ah, now it's also a meth lab. Was that in the police report too or just part of the world you're building?

Yes yes I know, by saying "visit Granny at the meth lab" you can disingenuously frame the concept as fundamentally ridiculous, in a way that saying "going to visit a friend that he's unaware moonlights selling drugs" doesn't.
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Old 10th October 2021, 01:16 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If he has been saving this money at home for a long time in anticipation of a single major purchase, larger than the usual amounts of cash he carries around
I have a real hard time imagining that you even believe the argument you are making, at this point. It sounds so ridiculously stupid that one would ignore the obvious in order to craft such a scenario.

The ISF is a hotbed of critical thought, after all.
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Old 10th October 2021, 01:22 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I have a real hard time imagining that you even believe the argument you are making, at this point. It sounds so ridiculously stupid that one would ignore the obvious in order to craft such a scenario.

The ISF is a hotbed of critical thought, after all.
You're right, people don't save up money to make an expensive purchase. What was I thinking.
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Old 10th October 2021, 02:28 AM   #80
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I know, I know. I would normally never question it, but on this one every single article says "Owensby says he is a paraplegic".
That's something that's been bugging me.

If he's a paraplegic, he can't use his legs. I don't see any obvious hand controls in the car. Maybe someone can point them out? It looked to me like there are pedals on the floor, which I wouldn't expect to see.
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