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Old 10th October 2021, 06:30 AM   #81
Thermal
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That's something that's been bugging me.

If he's a paraplegic, he can't use his legs. I don't see any obvious hand controls in the car. Maybe someone can point them out? It looked to me like there are pedals on the floor, which I wouldn't expect to see.
The modifications are like a set of rods, bringing control.of the pedal up to the drivers right hand. They are just out of frame for most of the video. At 2:01, you see them creep in frame at the bottom.

I just don't recall physical disabilities described so tentatively before. Its as if the journalists are willing to believe all of his story at face value, but are balking on that point.
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Old 10th October 2021, 08:32 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
You're right, people don't save up money to make an expensive purchase. What was I thinking.
Absolutely. I'm sure his felony felony drug and weapons convictions were all just a big misunderstanding too.

Let's see....maybe he was secretly in training for Paralympic shooting, and that's why he had the firearms that he was charged with in his car? You know, the car that he was charged with having secret compartments built into? Perhaps the felony drug convictions were from when he was serving as a courier for Doctors Without Borders? If you are not a criminal defense attorney a la Saul Goodman, you missed your calling.

Dude, I'm all for entertaining a hypothetical as much as anyone, and more than many. But we do have to look at things in toto once in a while. Everything points to the cops targeting Owensby, not because he is black, but because he appeared to be a player in an active drug investigation. Unless you can show white guys in luxury cars stopping at the surveilled house being let go with a wink and a nod?
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Old 10th October 2021, 11:30 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
At 2:01, you see them creep in frame at the bottom.
Thanks - I couldn't be arsed watching it all.
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Old 10th October 2021, 12:41 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Absolutely. I'm sure his felony felony drug and weapons convictions were all just a big misunderstanding too.
.....
The cops wouldn't have known any of that when they stopped him. And he wasn't charged with any drug or weapons crimes after the stop. It astonishes me that anybody can defend the cops here.
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Old 10th October 2021, 12:46 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The cops wouldn't have known any of that when they stopped him. And he wasn't charged with any drug or weapons crimes after the stop. It astonishes me that anybody can defend the cops here.
This point has been made repeatedly. It’s only just over a week since the incident. Is the investigation and charging process instantaneous there? Or is it like so many other jurisdictions where police numbers are down due to covid and things like getting statements and gathering evidence takes time.
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Old 10th October 2021, 12:59 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
This point has been made repeatedly. It’s only just over a week since the incident. Is the investigation and charging process instantaneous there? Or is it like so many other jurisdictions where police numbers are down due to covid and things like getting statements and gathering evidence takes time.
Oh, c'mon. If they had found drugs or weapons in his car they would have arrested him on the spot. They wrote traffic citations on the spot. The evidence would have been what they had in hand after the search. Whether to prosecute would have been decided by the DA, but there wouldn't be much to investigate.
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Old 10th October 2021, 01:01 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The cops wouldn't have known any of that when they stopped him. And he wasn't charged with any drug or weapons crimes after the stop. It astonishes me that anybody can defend the cops here.
Its not defending the cops. Its challenging a bull **** narrative.

Our OP (oddly and utterly silent) titled this as a #LWB story, with all the race-baiting baggage that comes with that moniker. What I and others are arguing is that, like so many of these stories, racism seems to play no part. The cops were working a drug investigation, and Owensby stopped at the house under surveillance. They did not stop some random black guy to abuse.

Now, we can argue that the cops were still thugs. I'd agree; even if they *thought* Owensby was faking, that was a brutal manhandling. Cops should be above that kind of thing, no matter how confident they are that they got a bad guy..
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Old 10th October 2021, 01:14 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Absolutely. I'm sure his felony felony drug and weapons convictions were all just a big misunderstanding too.

Let's see....maybe he was secretly in training for Paralympic shooting, and that's why he had the firearms that he was charged with in his car? You know, the car that he was charged with having secret compartments built into? Perhaps the felony drug convictions were from when he was serving as a courier for Doctors Without Borders? If you are not a criminal defense attorney a la Saul Goodman, you missed your calling.
I don't recall saying anything about his previous conviction. Is this an exchange you dreamed last night perhaps?

It seems the matter of his previous charges has already been fully adjudicated and disposed. Is there a substantial connection that the police have mentioned between the previous drug and weapon possession conviction of however long ago, and this traffic stop, or the drug activity you propose he was engaged in currently? Or is this a connection you are including in your world-building? Because from what I've heard there were no weapons or drugs found in his car during this stop, and if that's the case then I don't see how his previous conviction has any probative relevance to this incident; in fact, being pulled over by the cops and them finding no weapons or drugs or hidden compartments in his vehicle at all seems to be a positive argument that he is not still engaged in his previous activities.
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Old 10th October 2021, 01:27 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I don't recall saying anything about his previous conviction. Is this an exchange you dreamed last night perhaps?
Nah, I just figured that while you were going ape **** making up excuses for why he had bags of cash and why he stopped at a drug house and all, we could make a party of it.

You keep trying to isolate any one factor and come up with unsupported alternate realities...world building, as you call it...in a vacuum, and then say he is innocent. He is not known to be innocent of a damned thing. He is known not to have been scoring dope at the time, as the cops clearly wanted/expected him to be. .

Quote:
It seems the matter of his previous charges has already been fully adjudicated and disposed. Is there a substantial connection that the police have mentioned between the previous drug and weapon possession conviction of however long ago, and this traffic stop, or the drug activity you propose he was engaged in currently? Or is this a connection you are including in your world-building? Because from what I've heard there were no weapons or drugs found in his car during this stop, and if that's the case then I don't see how his previous conviction has any probative relevance to this incident; in fact, being pulled over by the cops and them finding no weapons or drugs or hidden compartments in his vehicle at all seems to be a positive argument that he is not still engaged in his previous activities.
Or, looked at from Planet Earth, that he was moving the money, not product. The cops guessed wrong and blew it.

Keep calling me to the carpet about World Building TM, though. Right after you talk some more about visiting loved ones with his medical equipment cash reserves in the...what you call for some inexplicable reason...gift bag?

The question here is "did the cops cruelly harass a paraplegic black man out of racism?" The answer appears to be "no".
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Old 10th October 2021, 02:37 PM   #90
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Here's something new:
Quote:
According to Foward, Owensby had been picking up cable TV boxes from rental properties he owns, including a property suspected of being a drug house, when he was stopped by police.

Maybe the cash was rent. Not everybody has or can get a bank account. And he was arrested on Sept. 30, one day before rent would be due.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-car-by-police
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...wensby-arrest/
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Old 10th October 2021, 02:47 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Here's something new:



Maybe the cash was rent. Not everybody has or can get a bank account. And he was arrested on Sept. 30, one day before rent would be due.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-car-by-police
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...wensby-arrest/
I don't see anything about rent collection being claimed. I guess we could figure out how many properties he owed and what the rent is that would total up to tens of thousands of dollars...

And he owns the drug house he was at? I don't know if that is better or worse.

And why is he taking all his tenants cable away?

Anywho, this guy is a real Cinderella story, no? Multiple felony convictions for drugs and weapons a few years ago, served his time, and is now a real estate baron. Who takes cable boxes. And owns a drug house.
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Old 10th October 2021, 03:06 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Maybe the cash was rent. Not everybody has or can get a bank account. And he was arrested on Sept. 30, one day before rent would be due.
Yes, perhaps he owns 20 homes but cannot get a bank account.
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Old 10th October 2021, 03:16 PM   #93
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Realtors Hate Him!

I guess you can accumilate multiple properties fresh out of prison if you duck those annoying bank fees by keeping your cash in a Target bag. Plus he saved by skimping on car seats and pinching all your tenants' cable boxes personally.

I can't wait for the next installment of Clifford Owensby: Real Estate Tycoon
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Old 10th October 2021, 03:21 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yes, perhaps he owns 20 homes but cannot get a bank account.

The people without bank accounts would be the tenants paying him in cash. What makes you think he wouldn't have an account? Or maybe his real crime is that he's evading federal income tax. But that's not what he was stopped for.
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Old 10th October 2021, 03:35 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The people without bank accounts would be the tenants paying him in cash. What makes you think he wouldn't have an account? Or maybe his real crime is that he's evading federal income tax. But that's not what he was stopped for.
It has already been proposed in this thread that he might not have a bank account, which is why he was driving around with $22k in cash. It is hard to keep track of the various fantasies being presented.
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Old 10th October 2021, 04:23 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Here's something new:
Well what do you know - he actually had legitimate business at the "suspected drug house" that had nothing to do with drugs. But according to Thermal that was a childish and naive possibility to even consider.

Or I suppose now it's suspicious for a landlord to visit a property he owns if the police "suspect" it's a "drug house".
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Old 10th October 2021, 04:25 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Realtors Hate Him!

I guess you can accumilate multiple properties fresh out of prison if you duck those annoying bank fees by keeping your cash in a Target bag. Plus he saved by skimping on car seats and pinching all your tenants' cable boxes personally.

I can't wait for the next installment of Clifford Owensby: Real Estate Tycoon
That's just the racism showing again. It has to be a lie that he owns the properties because he's a black man who was once charged with a drug thing, making him a permanent thug in your eyes. Tigers something-something-spots, or whatnot.
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Old 10th October 2021, 06:12 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I wasn't aware that black persons either require or request your validation or confirmation that a given claim is racist.
My opinion on the matter isn't intended to be some kind of service or a favor to the victim. A report about the incident was posted here to be discussed in this internet "discussion forum"; presenting my impressions is my contribution to the discussion, in the same way that other forum members presenting their own impressions and opinions constitutes their own contribution.

I'm interested in the logic behind your implication that it is presumptuous and objectionable to say I've been convinced by a black person's claim of racism in some news story, considering you have nothing to say about people disputing or mocking such black person's claim in the same medium.
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Old 10th October 2021, 09:39 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Well what do you know - he actually had legitimate business at the "suspected drug house" that had nothing to do with drugs. But according to Thermal that was a childish and naive possibility to even consider.

Or I suppose now it's suspicious for a landlord to visit a property he owns if the police "suspect" it's a "drug house".
You truly, genuinely don't get that it is worse that he actually owns the drug house, do you?

He takes six of his children to school that morning, leaving his 3 yr old in the back seat unrestrained. Ok. Then around 12:30, he feels he has to pick up cable boxes from his drug house. Ok. **** that toddler, I guess. Cable boxes are numero uno on the priority list. She can just sit there for hours while they are trapped in the Audi.

So he goes to pick up the cable boxes by...I dunno, popping the trunk and having the dealers toss them in there? He can't get out. Unless his tenants have a wheelchair ready for him?

God, dude. This guy is every cliche of being ongoing in the trade. He even describes his occupation as a 'businessman". That's right out of a B movie script. Yet he should suddenly get a halo slapped on his head because he claims to be picking up cable boxes...at his own drug house? I don't see how that gives him any credibility.

Oh, and what is "childish and naive" is to ignore the obvious simple conclusion in front of you in favor of a contorted series of events to make it all sound innocent.

Also: how did the cops not connect the dots between his name on the license/registration, and the property under surveillance's owner?

For my part, I just want to hear the next revelation. I'm laying odds that after courtroom testimony that puts the cops behind bars, he gets up and walks out of the courtroom...and we realize he was Kaiser Soze all along.
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Old 11th October 2021, 12:24 AM   #100
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Since the suspected drug house has never been raided how is the landlord supposed to know it’s a suspected drug house? Tenants pay rent or not. They hassle him about plumbing and cable boxes or they don’t. He’s not hanging out with them every day to see what else is going on.

I’ve done a lot of drugs in houses where the landlord had no idea drugs were being done. Luckily, the cops didn’t either.

I actually met a woman last year who knew me because she dated my dealer 30 years ago. She was with her husband so I didn’t ask what ever happened to him. Nice guy, and a very upscale drug house. Actually it was a condo.
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Old 11th October 2021, 12:27 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
For my part, I just want to hear the next revelation. I'm laying odds that after courtroom testimony that puts the cops behind bars, he gets up and walks out of the courtroom...and we realize he was Kaiser Soze all along.
That just silly. Cops don’t go to jail for being bad cops.
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Old 11th October 2021, 12:46 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You truly, genuinely don't get that it is worse that he actually owns the drug house, do you?
He doesn't own a drug house. That much has been made clear. Even the police had to admit that it was only "suspected" of being one. And given that they missed the mark with their "suspicion" that this man was carrying drugs in his car by such an embarrassingly wide mile, I think it's safe to dismiss their "suspicions" about the house until, again, some actual evidence emerges supporting it.


The rest of your increasingly circular argument in the post rests on the now thoroughly unsupported premise that one of the properties he collected a cable box from was a "drug house", so the remainder of the post doesn't need to be addressed.
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Old 11th October 2021, 12:49 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Since the suspected drug house has never been raided how is the landlord supposed to know it’s a suspected drug house? Tenants pay rent or not. They hassle him about plumbing and cable boxes or they don’t. He’s not hanging out with them every day to see what else is going on.
That's just silly. He got caught with a small amount of drugs in his possession once! Everyone named Thermal knows that once you're a hardcore drug-thug you are psychically connected to the rest of the local hardcore-drug-thugs and always know when and where drug-things are going on at all times, especially if you ever put money in a plastic bag.
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Old 11th October 2021, 01:53 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That's just silly. He got caught with a small amount of drugs in his possession once! Everyone named Thermal knows that once you're a hardcore drug-thug you are psychically connected to the rest of the local hardcore-drug-thugs and always know when and where drug-things are going on at all times, especially if you ever put money in a plastic bag.
I once had a client pull a bag of $90k out of his desk drawer. It was a disposable plastic bag. It made me more nervous than the gun I knew he kept in the other drawer.

1) he was licensed to make and sell legal drugs;
2) he still did a lot of illegal drugs;
3) the money was from the legal side of his life: his compulsive gambling.
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Old 11th October 2021, 04:31 AM   #105
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Gotta love how the conversation has shifted from the way the police behaved to whether or not Owensby was doing anything criminal. As if that matters for the situation.

He could have had a duffle bag full of primo heroin. It doesn't matter. He may have been mouthy. It doesn't matter. The police still acted wildly inappropriately.
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Old 11th October 2021, 04:38 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
Gotta love how the conversation has shifted from the way the police behaved to whether or not Owensby was doing anything criminal. As if that matters for the situation.

He could have had a duffle bag full of primo heroin. It doesn't matter. He may have been mouthy. It doesn't matter. The police still acted wildly inappropriately.
Because, every time someone screeches and cries out for a "white shirt", well, of course they are a victim. I mean this fool is calling for family members to come and bring cameras, even before he is removed from the car. Honestly, more of these people need to be clubbed upside the dome...regardless of race.

That is whole idea of this thread, that this dude is a victim of racism. There is zero evidence to support that claim.

The reality is, his own douchey behavior led to this.
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Old 11th October 2021, 04:55 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The reality is, his own douchey behavior led to this.
IMO, the point is that the police got mad, pulled a paraplegic man out of a car and injured him. There's no reason for that. It doesn't ******* matter how douchey he is. The police shouldn't do **** like that. They don't get to decide if someone deserves to get clubbed upside the head or whatever.

Guy says he can't get out of the car on his own, is paraplegic, and doesn't trust you to get him out safely? Then call for some ******* help. Don't manhandle the guy. I don't give two craps about how douchey he is being - the police are supposed to be the professionals.

You manhandle someone when they are being a real threat. This guy was not. Their actions were entirely unnecessary and speaks volumes about how police are trained and see themselves.

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Old 11th October 2021, 04:58 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
IMO, the point is that the police got mad, pulled a paraplegic man out of a car and injured him. There's no reason for that. It doesn't ******* matter how douchey he is. The police shouldn't do **** like that. Guy says he can't get out of the car on his own, is paraplegic, and doesn't trust you to get him out safely? Then call for some ******* help. Don't manhandle the guy.

You manhandle someone when they are being a real threat. This guy was not.
The cop said he would help get him out. I don't care if this guy is black, paraplegic, gay, a hermaphrodite...or whatever. He was acting a douche, and all evidence points to him being douche. I mean, listen to him squeal on the ground and try to resist in his gimp way. After calling for cameras to come. Pathetic.

But hey, look...NAACP to the rescue. Racists were afoot, yo.

**** this guy, and others like him.
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Old 11th October 2021, 05:00 AM   #109
bonzombiekitty
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I mean, listen to him squeal on the ground and try to resist in his gimp way. Pathetic.
Jesus. I'm done with you.
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Old 11th October 2021, 07:17 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Do you spend a lot of time hanging out at drug dens that are under surveillance?
Yes.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
People act like law enforcement is stupid.
No, I just don't act like they're intelligent by default because I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
They had a valid reason to pull him over, and clearly some suspicions that anyone with common sense knows were valid.
Yes, those same "common sense suspicions" turned out to be complete and total ********. Fancy that!

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Now I'm going to watch the video again so I can laugh while listening to him squeal like a little girl.
Wow, how empty does one's life have to be to watch another person in pain and relish in it?

Uh, have fun bro. Don't forget to eat the bread when it's all over.

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
Jesus. I'm done with you.
That's his goal. That's a win for him and why he says it.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
So, you weren't breaking the law and didn't have any hassles as a result.

Cool story bro.
I was breaking the exact same laws this guy was, and more actually. I have illegally tinted windows, I was driving a non-registered vehicle that I paid for with $3,000 in cold hard cash, I have multiple previous drug convictions, AND I am a convicted felon. Anything at all that you could apply to this man, could have equally been applied to me. Yet I didn't even get a ******* verbal warning in any of the half a dozen or so traffic stops I was apart of.
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Old 11th October 2021, 07:35 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Since the suspected drug house has never been raided how is the landlord supposed to know it’s a suspected drug house? Tenants pay rent or not. They hassle him about plumbing and cable boxes or they don’t. He’s not hanging out with them every day to see what else is going on.
Then your starting assumption here is that Owensby maintains a real estate portfolio of rental properties as an intrepid entrepenour. My assumption is that he was very active in the trade and this was his actual storefront. He is not some bumbling Stanley Roper, oblivious to goings-on.

I mean, the guy had secret compartments built into his car when he was busted for the multiple felonies. You think he was smuggling Cabbage Patch Dolls to Canada? I think he was inolved pretty heavily in the business, and knows who is who in the trade, and can recognize the tells on a storefront even better than you and I. I'd wager he not only knew, but as the owner, he had a stake in the take, to whatever degree.

Quote:
I’ve done a lot of drugs in houses where the landlord had no idea drugs were being done. Luckily, the cops didn’t either.
And that's the thing here. The cops not only had suspicions, but enough cause to get a judge to authorize surveillance and the Narc boys to allocate funds to it. What that means is that every swinging dick in town already knew this was the head shop. By the time it goes under surveillance, it's doing a McDonald's level of transactions.
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Old 11th October 2021, 07:46 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
Gotta love how the conversation has shifted from the way the police behaved to whether or not Owensby was doing anything criminal. As if that matters for the situation.

He could have had a duffle bag full of primo heroin. It doesn't matter. He may have been mouthy. It doesn't matter. The police still acted wildly inappropriately.
Yeah, this. But we're on the ISF, dude. While this story belongs in the Brutalizing Cops forum, a couple guys here want to focus on Owensby being black. That's not the issue.

But come on. Look at this Oscar worthy performative piece going on here. "He has no choice but to carry tens of thousands of dollars in a throwaway Target bag on the floor of his car!" "He was just visiting loved ones at the drug house!" This is paternal racist gold, Jerry.
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Old 11th October 2021, 08:14 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, this. But we're on the ISF, dude. While this story belongs in the Brutalizing Cops forum, a couple guys here want to focus on Owensby being black. That's not the issue.

But come on. Look at this Oscar worthy performative piece going on here. "He has no choice but to carry tens of thousands of dollars in a throwaway Target bag on the floor of his car!" "He was just visiting loved ones at the drug house!" This is paternal racist gold, Jerry.
Yet here you are, throwing out ******** assumptions left and right lol. Do you not even see how hypocritical you're being?

You have nothing. You're using this man's past against him, despite this case having absolutely ******* zero things in common with his previous criminal issues. He didn't have any secret cubbies, he was found with nothing in the car other than cash, and they haven't arrested or charged him with any of that. But all of that be damned, because God dammit, Thermal just knows, he just KNOWS that because this man has a criminal past, he was doing something wrong here.

What a crock of ****.
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Old 11th October 2021, 08:26 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I was breaking the exact same laws this guy was, and more actually. I have illegally tinted windows, I was driving a non-registered vehicle that I paid for with $3,000 in cold hard cash, I have multiple previous drug convictions, AND I am a convicted felon. Anything at all that you could apply to this man, could have equally been applied to me. Yet I didn't even get a ******* verbal warning in any of the half a dozen or so traffic stops I was apart of.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Old 11th October 2021, 08:30 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yet here you are, throwing out ******** assumptions left and right lol. Do you not even see how hypocritical you're being?

You have nothing. You're using this man's past against him, despite this case having absolutely ******* zero things in common with his previous criminal issues. He didn't have any secret cubbies, he was found with nothing in the car other than cash, and they haven't arrested or charged him with any of that. But all of that be damned, because God dammit, Thermal just knows, he just KNOWS that because this man has a criminal past, he was doing something wrong here.

What a crock of ****.
Dude. He seems to have been a fairly serious player when he got busted for his multiple felonies. He actually owns a house under active surveillance by the Narcotics squad. He actually stops there briefly right before the pull-over.

Yes, a person with two or three neurons still firing would be highly suspicious of his ongoing involvement. While this was a real hoot to watch the denying contortions, it's collectively insulting to our intelligence to pretend there is not damn good reason to be suspicious. Knock yourselves out, but even the OP was sharp enough to realize he ****** up with this one and hasn't posted a word since starting the thread.
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Old 11th October 2021, 09:30 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Dude. He seems to have been a fairly serious player when he got busted for his multiple felonies.
Brosef, this isn't "when he got busted for multiple felones". This is "when he was driving in his car". I can explain how time works if you need me to do so.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
He actually owns a house under active surveillance by the Narcotics squad.
Awesome, my buddy got busted with drugs in an apartment. Should they have pulled over the landlord of that apartment building as well?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
He actually stops there briefly right before the pull-over.
Great, he owns the house. Unless I'm missing something he can stop by his own property whenever the **** he God damned well feels like it, and doesn't have to explain it to anyone unless there's some form of evidence he did something wrong. Which, even after this encounter, there is none. Landlords aren't required to know everything about a renter. In fact, most of the time the tenant has privacy rights when renting property.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, a person with two or three neurons still firing would be highly suspicious of his ongoing involvement.
Yes, I'm a stupid dip **** for not agreeing with you, I get it.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
While this was a real hoot to watch the denying contortions, it's collectively insulting to our intelligence to pretend there is not damn good reason to be suspicious. Knock yourselves out, but even the OP was sharp enough to realize he ****** up with this one and hasn't posted a word since starting the thread.
I don't give a **** what the OP does or doesn't do because my statements aren't based on his participation in a thread. Secondly, they can be suspicious all they want, but they had no evidence this man had done anything wrong. They were looking for evidence, based on nothing more than him leaving a house under surveillance. You're the one saying the cops were in the right because the man had a criminal past, and he just left a house that he owned. It sounds like the cops screwed this whole thing up. I'd be shocked if they were even surveilling the right ******* house considering nothing has come from this, but again. You just know better, because you and your neurons are firing!

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.
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Last edited by zooterkin; 12th October 2021 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 11th October 2021, 02:23 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Then your starting assumption here is that Owensby maintains a real estate portfolio of rental properties as an intrepid entrepenour. My assumption is that he was very active in the trade and this was his actual storefront. He is not some bumbling Stanley Roper, oblivious to goings-on.

I mean, the guy had secret compartments built into his car when he was busted for the multiple felonies. You think he was smuggling Cabbage Patch Dolls to Canada? I think he was inolved pretty heavily in the business, and knows who is who in the trade, and can recognize the tells on a storefront even better than you and I. I'd wager he not only knew, but as the owner, he had a stake in the take, to whatever degree.



And that's the thing here. The cops not only had suspicions, but enough cause to get a judge to authorize surveillance and the Narc boys to allocate funds to it. What that means is that every swinging dick in town already knew this was the head shop. By the time it goes under surveillance, it's doing a McDonald's level of transactions.
A McDonalds that the cops still can’t prove was selling burgers? Sure.

Look, the cops used the tint pretext because they didn’t have any evidence that he had drugs. If it was a McDonalds they wouldn’t have needed to be so sloppy.

Let’s take a look at your story: they moved tens of thousands of dollars worth of drugs through this house and have no record of a single drug arrest. Good cops!
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Old 11th October 2021, 02:35 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You have nothing. You're using this man's past against him, despite this case having absolutely ******* zero things in common with his previous criminal issues. He didn't have any secret cubbies, he was found with nothing in the car other than cash, and they haven't arrested or charged him with any of that. But all of that be damned, because God dammit, Thermal just knows, he just KNOWS that because this man has a criminal past, he was doing something wrong here.
It gets even better once it comes out that the man is a landlord and thus has a legitimate reason to be visiting his rental properties at regular intervals, because here comes Thermal to now scrutinize the man's legitimate business and tell us all about the "signs" that even if he isn't a drug dealer he's definitely got to be doing something criminal for sure.
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Old 11th October 2021, 02:37 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
A McDonalds that the cops still can’t prove was selling burgers? Sure.

Look, the cops used the tint pretext because they didn’t have any evidence that he had drugs. If it was a McDonalds they wouldn’t have needed to be so sloppy.

Let’s take a look at your story: they moved tens of thousands of dollars worth of drugs through this house and have no record of a single drug arrest. Good cops!
Right. The bad guys are smarter than the cops. And?

Eta: think it through, man. *If* Owensby has resumed the trade (not at all a given):

1. He is going to be cautious not to be caught with the product himself, to avoid a second felony conviction. Others will handle that end. He is free to pick up the proceeds, which will be much harder to tie to him as direct involvement. "Rent collection", as it were. Disagree?

2. His last car had secret compartments in it. Can we assume he is hip to clandestine moving of the product? Maybe even more so after a bust? I think we can.

3. Even His representatives have not said he was a "landlord". They said he has properties. Any evidence that the occupants in the alleged "drug house" have a lease and are paying him rent? That would be strange if not, no? Unless this is Owensby's storefront and the occupants are more or less workers. Others have leapt to the conclusion that owning the property makes Owensby a landlord and anyone on the property (which the police have not even claimed) are his lawful tenants. Could be. Could also be that he is managing a "business" at a place he owns and controls.

Actually, just demonstrating tenants would be a good start. A lot of drug houses under surveillance are abandoned, or at least no permanent residents or a ******* lease.

So let's start there: has any soul but Owensby been reported to be on this property by anyone, anywhere?

Eta II: just to cut a couple dumbasses off at the pass here, it is said Owensby owns the property. That could mean it is empty home (which might explain his picking up cable boxes, because the previous tenants had vacated; it could be an uninhabitable wreck; or it could be a charming rental with granny knitting on the porch.

A good test to see if you are a dumbass is if you went straight to option 3 without hesitation.
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Old 11th October 2021, 03:15 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And that's the thing here. The cops not only had suspicions, but enough cause to get a judge to authorize surveillance and the Narc boys to allocate funds to it.
No, you're making up your own facts again. Local police don't need a judge's authorization to watch a house, and keep track of who comes and who goes. They only need a warrant to enter and search it.

You have some kind of Hollywoodized understanding of law enforcement procedure and even the misinformed world you have built is amusingly self-inconsistent. In Thermalworld, the police already have slam-dunk evidence that the place IS a "storefront" (his personal term-of-art, having decided "drug-house" is no longer emotive enough I guess) because they apparently would need that level of proof to get an "authorization from a judge" (that he has invented) to stakeout the house, but this irrefutable proof is not enough for an actual search warrant, or arrest warrant, or even enough to justify charging anyone whatsoever with anything pertinent even when they physically catch a guy having just left the house who has "a large sum" of money in a plastic bag which according to Thermal's own expertise as a hardened investigator into the shadowy criminal underworld is a method of "transporting money" only ever used by drug dealers. It's almost comical.
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