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Old 13th October 2021, 12:29 PM   #201
plague311
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Did we ever dig up any evidence that racism was involved here? Just trying to understand the significance of these "while black" threads.
It's 4 pages after the OP. Can you not follow thread drift? I believe the claim of racism was dropped when it was discovered that the police officer was black. Now it's just a case of inept police harassing a paraplegic because he had priors and he stopped by a house he owned that was under surveillance for reasons nobody knows because there's no evidence anything was happening.

This is the part where you guys claim that having $22k in cash means that he is, in fact, a drug dealer and deserved everything he got.

And, action.
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Old 13th October 2021, 12:32 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
This is the part where you guys claim that having $22k in cash means that he is, in fact, a drug dealer and deserved everything he got.
Not sure whether I'd agree that he deserved everything he got, so good thing i never said that. As far as him being a drug dealer, you can mark me down as being in the "think it's very likely" camp.
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Old 13th October 2021, 12:41 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It's 4 pages after the OP. Can you not follow thread drift? I believe the claim of racism was dropped when it was discovered that the police officer was black. Now it's just a case of inept police harassing a paraplegic because he had priors and he stopped by a house he owned that was under surveillance for reasons nobody knows because there's no evidence anything was happening.

This is the part where you guys claim that having $22k in cash means that he is, in fact, a drug dealer and deserved everything he got.

And, action.
If he is involved with drugs at that level, I don't think he got enough, tbh. I don't care if he is black and gimped out, in that circumstance.

Being generous, I will say that his actions primarily led to the result. He literally demanded those results (and called for cameras prior), and there is certainly very much to be suspicious about regarding what kind of "businessman" he is.
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:29 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Not sure whether I'd agree that he deserved everything he got, so good thing i never said that. As far as him being a drug dealer, you can mark me down as being in the "think it's very likely" camp.
Good thing I wasn't quoting you either, and yes, it's very clear you think he's a drug dealer. Thank you for that.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
If he is involved with drugs at that level, I don't think he got enough, tbh. I don't care if he is black and gimped out, in that circumstance.
At what level? What the **** are you talking about? Have you followed the thread? There's no evidence available that he's involved with drugs at ANY level. Just assumptions and some people saying that's how they did it when they dealt drugs. We can't take Owensby's word for anything, but these other former drug dealers in the thread should certainly be taken seriously? LoL the ****

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Being generous, I will say that his actions primarily led to the result. He literally demanded those results (and called for cameras prior), and there is certainly very much to be suspicious about regarding what kind of "businessman" he is.
Yeah, that crazy ******* with his tinted windows. He needs to learn his place, amiright?
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:34 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

Yeah, that crazy ******* with his tinted windows. He needs to learn his place, amiright?
If you think the tinted windows are what got him drug out of the car and escalated the situation, I don't know what to tell you.
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:38 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
If you think the tinted windows are what got him drug out of the car and escalated the situation, I don't know what to tell you.
It's why he got pulled over, isn't it? Do you normally get your car sniffed for tinted windows? Do you normally get your car sniffed for "an unrestrained child"?

I don't. I never have, even with my "douche" status. Never once had my car sniffed. Never even been asked.
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:44 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It's why he got pulled over, isn't it? Do you normally get your car sniffed for tinted windows? Do you normally get your car sniffed for "an unrestrained child"?
Come on, man. You know the details of this story better than that.
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:55 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It's why he got pulled over, isn't it? Do you normally get your car sniffed for tinted windows? Do you normally get your car sniffed for "an unrestrained child"? .
I've gotten pulled over for tinted windows several times, but I've never gotten my car sniffed any of those times. I wonder what's so different about Owensby.

Oh yeah, the felony drug convictions.
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:55 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Come on, man. You know the details of this story better than that.
You do too. They had absolutely no right to do what they did. You're saying it's fine because he left a house they were surveilling and he had a criminal past. So of course, it's not a problem to you.

As someone that's been judged by his past, I think it's ******* stupid ********.

I won't lie and say this doesn't hit me personally. It hits me way more personally than the racial component. If people can't ******* change, and they're expected to be treated like **** for the rest of their lives because they made a mistake, then THAT should be their mother ******* punishment. Cause we'll never live beyond it. It's always who we are because people let it be. People let cops treat former criminals like this. People judge former criminals for their past ALWAYS.

What do people say when I say this? "Well, guess you shouldn't have got in trouble then, should you have?"

ETA:

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I've gotten pulled over for tinted windows several times, but I've never gotten my car sniffed any of those times. I wonder what's so different about Owensby.

Oh yeah, the felony drug convictions.
Thank you for literally proving my mother ******* point. I couldn't have said it better. Jesus ******* Christ.
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:56 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I've gotten pulled over for tinted windows several times, but I've never gotten my car sniffed any of those times. I wonder what's so different about Owensby.

Oh yeah, the felony drug convictions.
And coming from a house under surveillance. You also have to wonder if maybe the cops are aware of this guy and his "business", on a local level.
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:59 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
And coming from a house under surveillance. You also have to wonder if maybe the cops are aware of this guy and his "business", on a local level.
Yeah, they were so familiar they found abso ******* lutely nothing. They didn't find it when they raided the house. Oh, wait, they didn't raid the house? So their surveillance couldn't even get them a search warrant? Huh, odd.

Well, then they knew him so well that they must have found drugs in his car when they drug him out by his hair and searched that? Oh, they didn't? ******* weird, that.
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Old 13th October 2021, 02:04 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yeah, they were so familiar they found abso ******* lutely nothing. They didn't find it when they raided the house. Oh, wait, they didn't raid the house? So their surveillance couldn't even get them a search warrant? Huh, odd.

Well, then they knew him so well that they must have found drugs in his car when they drug him out by his hair and searched that? Oh, they didn't? ******* weird, that.
We've been over these points before.

They didn't find drugs. They just found him, conveniently, with his life savings in cash....after coming from the "suspected" drug house that he owns. Zany coincidences in that town, I'll tell ya.
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Old 13th October 2021, 05:45 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yeah, they were so familiar they found abso ******* lutely nothing. They didn't find it when they raided the house. Oh, wait, they didn't raid the house? So their surveillance couldn't even get them a search warrant? Huh, odd.

Well, then they knew him so well that they must have found drugs in his car when they drug him out by his hair and searched that? Oh, they didn't? ******* weird, that.

Hey they had to bust someone for something after all that failed surveillance!
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Old 13th October 2021, 07:51 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
... So of course, it's not a problem to you.

As someone that's been judged by his past, I think it's ******* stupid ********.

I won't lie and say this doesn't hit me personally. It hits me way more personally than the racial component. If people can't ******* change, and they're expected to be treated like **** for the rest of their lives because they made a mistake, then THAT should be their mother ******* punishment. Cause we'll never live beyond it. It's always who we are because people let it be. People let cops treat former criminals like this. People judge former criminals for their past ALWAYS.

What do people say when I say this? "Well, guess you shouldn't have got in trouble then, should you have?"
You know, I've been wondering why you have been so adamant about this point.

Straight talk: No one is condemning Owensby (or, by extension, you) on their past. We are looking at the present. $22K+ in a bag on the floor of the car? No, that's not normal except for someone still in the ...ahem..."business".

That does not mean people can't change their ways. You and I have gone round and round, and you know that I argue that very point, that people can change (so they should never, ever, be shot). Same with a prior conviction; you should assume people have changed, but you can equally assume that if they show evidence of not changing, that they have not changed. Owensby shows multiple counts of having not changed. That doesn't reflect on you and your situation, unless you are making quick stops at a surveilled "suspected" drug house, that you happen to actually own, and you have dealer-level cash tossed on the floorboards.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:34 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Straight talk: No one is condemning Owensby (or, by extension, you) on their past. We are looking at the present. $22K+ in a bag on the floor of the car? No, that's not normal except for someone still in the ...ahem..."business".
You should really stop with the circular reasoning bit. It's neither persuasive nor logically valid. I mean, I guess feelings don't have to be logically valid and all, but...

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Old 14th October 2021, 05:30 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Did we ever dig up any evidence that racism was involved here? Just trying to understand the significance of these "while black" threads.
Maybe it’s with the evidence that he is a drug dealer?
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Old 14th October 2021, 05:33 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Hey they had to bust someone for something after all that failed surveillance!
That’s the story. Cops blow time on worthless surveillance. Try to force an arrest to justify the waste. City pays even more to settle claims and cops all get promoted.

The real tragedy is if it actually is a drug house and these keystone cops just let everyone involved go back to doing business at a new house.

As a taxpayer this would piss me off to no end.
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Old 14th October 2021, 07:04 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Cops blow time on worthless surveillance. Try to force an arrest to justify the waste.
That's about as succinct a summary of what happened here as one could expect.

[/closethread]
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Old 14th October 2021, 07:26 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You know, I've been wondering why you have been so adamant about this point.
I didn't think I could have made it more obvious up until this point. I've pointed out repeatedly that you guys keep bringing up his past, and his past means nothing to me. We don't even know when he got in trouble last. It could have been a decade ago.

I've also brought up my past multiple times in comparison, so I thought it was pretty straight forward. Ok though, I'm glad we're sprechen sie the same lingitty, ja.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Straight talk: No one is condemning Owensby (or, by extension, you) on their past. We are looking at the present. $22K+ in a bag on the floor of the car? No, that's not normal except for someone still in the ...ahem..."business".
First off, yes. Yes you are condemning him. You're literally accusing him of being a drug dealer, and I don't care if you condemn me.

I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to condemn either, and it appears now you're boiling it down to the money. How do you know it's normal for him? You're treating him like he constantly drives around with $22k in cash in his car. Why? One of his errands could have been transferring his savings to a new bank account, or shutting his savings down and keeping the money at home, and keeping it in a bag because he doesn't want it easily recognizable, or any other myriad of reasons that he doesn't have to explain to anyone because it's none of their ******* business.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That does not mean people can't change their ways. You and I have gone round and round, and you know that I argue that very point, that people can change (so they should never, ever, be shot). Same with a prior conviction; you should assume people have changed, but you can equally assume that if they show evidence of not changing, that they have not changed. Owensby shows multiple counts of having not changed.
Based on what evidence? This is what isn't making sense to me. Based on having $22k in cash? If we remove his criminal past then all that's left is the cash he had, and that he left a house that was being surveilled. One where they never found drugs, they never charged anyone, they never had enough to get a warrant, and no one at all related to\involved with this entire thing had any charges pressed. What is he doing that you're saying is "multiple counts of having not changed"? How do you know the cops even had a valid reason to surveil the house in the first place? They've shown nothing but incompetence at every turn. Even if you give them every benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That doesn't reflect on you and your situation, unless you are making quick stops at a surveilled "suspected" drug house, that you happen to actually own, and you have dealer-level cash tossed on the floorboards.
I have no idea why him making a quick stop at his own property is odd. In fact, there isn't even any evidence that he picked up the cash there. At all.

That's my beef with this whole thing. You guys are reading guilt into this where there hasn't been any but yet you same people, in every other "while black" thread will demand absolute and total proof that racism is involved. Nothing short of the person screaming the n-word, while waiving a confederate flag, spliced together with a Nazi flag will do. Even a bunch of circumstantial evidence, but here? Sure, you've tied it all together and put a bow on it.
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Old 14th October 2021, 07:46 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That's my beef with this whole thing. You guys are reading guilt into this where there hasn't been any but yet you same people, in every other "while black" thread will demand absolute and total proof that racism is involved. Nothing short of the person screaming the n-word, while waiving a confederate flag, spliced together with a Nazi flag will do. Even a bunch of circumstantial evidence, but here? Sure, you've tied it all together and put a bow on it.
Come on, bro. There is a difference between a thread claiming racism for no good reason (like this one and others have started out), and people being suspicious of someone who clearly seems to look at New Jack City as an inspirational piece.
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Old 14th October 2021, 08:01 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Come on, bro. There is a difference between a thread claiming racism for no good reason (like this one and others have started out), and people being suspicious of someone who clearly seems to look at New Jack City as an inspirational piece.
I feel like your email signature is "Come on, bro".

What you've described here is the definition of "confirmation bias". I'm not here to defend every other thread, but there are more than 1 "while black" thread that has way, Way, WAY more circumstantial evidence that racism is a motivating factor and it's handwaved away (by some), than there is circumstantial evidence that this man is a drug dealer. You've just already made up your mind, in both instances, that 1) racism is not a factor in the other threads and 2) that this man is a drug dealer. Every post you've made has stated he's a drug dealer despite no ******* drugs being found or drug charges being brought.

Owensby could be a drug dealer, and the surveilled house could be a drug den, but there's no evidence to either.
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Old 14th October 2021, 09:37 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I didn't think I could have made it more obvious up until this point. I've pointed out repeatedly that you guys keep bringing up his past, and his past means nothing to me. We don't even know when he got in trouble last. It could have been a decade ago.
Ya except we know he was convicted of multiple felonies in 2015. Math, much?

Quote:
I've also brought up my past multiple times in comparison, so I thought it was pretty straight forward. Ok though, I'm glad we're sprechen sie the same lingitty, ja.
Not as obvious as you might think. I have a bit of a past too, but am coming to a different conclusion. You are identifying with this guy as 'someone with a past' that feels like he has a Scarlet Letter unfairly branded on his forehead for eternity. I get that. I'm looking at this as 'someone with a past' who recognizes the obvious tells, all happening at the same time.

Quote:
First off, yes. Yes you are condemning him. You're literally accusing him of being a drug dealer, and I don't care if you condemn me.
Dead ass lie. I'm saying it is comically suspicious that he's in the game, but you can't drop a gavel one way or the other.

Quote:
I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to condemn either, and it appears now you're boiling it down to the money. How do you know it's normal for him? You're treating him like he constantly drives around with $22k in cash in his car. Why? One of his errands could have been transferring his savings to a new bank account, or shutting his savings down and keeping the money at home, and keeping it in a bag because he doesn't want it easily recognizable, or any other myriad of reasons that he doesn't have to explain to anyone because it's none of their ******* business.
Absolutely. It could be this, it could be that, it could be the other. So. What does our intrepid hero have to say about it? He says 'nah, man that's just my savings. I'm a businessman, you see'. That's ******* ridiculous thing to say, and straight out of a cheesy drug dealer movie.

Dead serious: if Owensby had said 'look man, I'm a paraplegic and I hustle whatever I can, buying and selling cars or stuff out of a pawn shop', or if he said "hey, I manage a titty bar and we move cash back and forth to the bank", or anything along those lines, I would genuinely have pause. That's perfectly plausible. But no. He chooses to deliver an excuse straight out of a cheap movie.

I'm more than willing to entertain 'wrong place, wrong time' explanations. But the man picks the classic Drug Dealer lines.

Quote:
Based on what evidence? This is what isn't making sense to me. Based on having $22k in cash? If we remove his criminal past then all that's left is the cash he had, and that he left a house that was being surveilled. One where they never found drugs, they never charged anyone, they never had enough to get a warrant, and no one at all related to\involved with this entire thing had any charges pressed. What is he doing that you're saying is "multiple counts of having not changed"? How do you know the cops even had a valid reason to surveil the house in the first place? They've shown nothing but incompetence at every turn. Even if you give them every benefit of the doubt.
Here's why it looks more suspicious than usual: I've mentioned many times that I get the guns-drawn treatment from police, when I am checking on or servicing an empty property at night. I totally get that, although I have every legal right to be there and technically don't owe anyone an explanation, that it looks bad, so I go out of my way to explain everything and put the fire out. Owensby does not. He just adds on to it with the piss-poor explanations and 'I'm a businessman'.

Quote:
I have no idea why him making a quick stop at his own property is odd. In fact, there isn't even any evidence that he picked up the cash there. At all.
Because the house was under surveillance as part of a drug investigation!!! Why the hell do you keep sweeping that under the rug?

If the cops were trying to pop some unknown tenants who had cleared out, then it was a case of bad timing for Cliffy, and that does suck. But it happens, much like me having to explain what I am doing on a property at night.

And true enough, there is no evidence he picked up cash there. So what are the 'tells' of drug dealing from the cop's POV?

1. Large amounts of drugs
2. Large amounts of money
3. Storage/distribution center
4. Weapons, distribution paraphernalia, etc. (all more circumstantial)

Owensby has two and three, and recent felony convictions for one and four. That makes it suspicious, much like I look suspicious being on a vacant property at night with a flashlight.

Quote:
That's my beef with this whole thing. You guys are reading guilt into this where there hasn't been any but yet you same people, in every other "while black" thread will demand absolute and total proof that racism is involved. Nothing short of the person screaming the n-word, while waiving a confederate flag, spliced together with a Nazi flag will do. Even a bunch of circumstantial evidence, but here? Sure, you've tied it all together and put a bow on it.
The "While black" things are a great analogy. Posters here are willing to declare guilt based on far less evidence than Owensby has against him for dealing.

Owensby having a ton of cash on the floor is the equivalent of McMichael having a Confederate flag sticker on his truck. It's a slam-dunk. Now, McMichael could have made excuses for that, too: "hey man, I'm a Civil War reenactor" or "I just bought the truck and it was already on it, just have to pick up razor blades later today to scrape it off" or any of a dozen other excuses, that, just like Owensby, he did not offer. But to you, and me, that was enough to assume he is in fact a card-carrying racist. Just Arbery being black is not enough. Evidence was shown. Now you can gavel drop with more confidence.
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Old 14th October 2021, 09:49 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
That’s the story. Cops blow time on worthless surveillance. Try to force an arrest to justify the waste. City pays even more to settle claims and cops all get promoted.

The real tragedy is if it actually is a drug house and these keystone cops just let everyone involved go back to doing business at a new house.

As a taxpayer this would piss me off to no end.
Serious question, here: what makes you think anything was a failure, or the cops had nothing on anybody? I've only seen that the surveillance was dropped on the property, nothing more. Well, ******* duh. I was able to identify the exact house in under a minute while sitting on the ******* toilet. The surveillance is blown, due to the Owensby attention, so they drop it.

But that means nothing in terms of what they did or had. When I was a low level slice-and-dice seller, the County Sheriff paid me a visit with some of his buddies, apparently cosplaying Robocop, by the way they were dressed. I had nothing, and they got nothing, but I did get some one-sided advice about entrepeneurship.

So did the Keystone cop Sheriff blow it? Nope. They disrupted the chain because I was now toxic, and no one would buy or sell to me because it was known that eyes were on me. Thus ended that endeavor. The guy I bought from was in jail about a year and a half later, with his replacement Thermal having sold to undercovers.

So how do you guys know so much about where this investigation is at, based on dropping surveillance on a single outed house? You think the whole thing happens in a week?
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Old 14th October 2021, 10:03 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ya except we know he was convicted of multiple felonies in 2015. Math, much?
I mean, I didn't know that. Do you have a source for it? I found this one at newsweek:

Quote:
In 2015, Owensby was called to court on drug abuse, hidden compartments/vehicle, weapons under disability, firearms in motor vehicle, as well speed charges, according to the Springfield News Sun.
No link to the article. A search of the Springfield News Sun for Clifford doesn't bring up anything stating that he was convicted of any felonies or drug charges in 2015, but I could have missed an article. I'll wait for your link.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm looking at this as 'someone with a past' who recognizes the obvious tells, all happening at the same time.
So like I said, you're reading your own confirmation bias and life experiences into this despite the evidence. Thank you, that's what I was trying to say.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Absolutely. It could be this, it could be that, it could be the other. So. What does our intrepid hero have to say about it? He says 'nah, man that's just my savings. I'm a businessman, you see'. That's ******* ridiculous thing to say, and straight out of a cheesy drug dealer movie.
Because he doesn't have to give you an explanation. It's, again, none of your ******* business what the money was for or where it was going. Again, this is just you making assumptions and claims based on nothing. Despite there being nothing you just know for sure that he's a drug dealer.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Dead serious...
Already addressed above.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm more than willing to entertain 'wrong place, wrong time' explanations. But the man picks the classic Drug Dealer lines.
LoL what the **** is this?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Here's why it looks more suspicious than usual: I've mentioned many times that I get the guns-drawn treatment from police, when I am checking on or servicing an empty property at night. I totally get that, although I have every legal right to be there and technically don't owe anyone an explanation, that it looks bad, so I go out of my way to explain everything and put the fire out. Owensby does not. He just adds on to it with the piss-poor explanations and 'I'm a businessman'.
I don't care what you do. You're not Owensby. Your decisions aren't his and your life experiences aren't his. So what you do means jack ****, but thank you for sharing.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Because the house was under surveillance as part of a drug investigation!!! Why the hell do you keep sweeping that under the rug?
Because it means nothing. It means nothing at all. Why? Because that surveillance found nothing. Their investigation found nothing. He didn't live there. He wasn't a resident. It only means something to you and your clan. To me, if they were any good at surveillance they would have found something BEFORE blowing their investigation by pulling a paraplegic out of his car for no reason.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And true enough, there is no evidence he picked up cash there. So what are the 'tells' of drug dealing from the cop's POV?

1. Large amounts of drugs
2. Large amounts of money
3. Storage/distribution center
4. Weapons, distribution paraphernalia, etc. (all more circumstantial)

Owensby has the first three. That makes it suspicious, much like I look suspicious being on a vacant property at night with a flashlight.
He has the first 3? What the **** are you talking about? He didn't have any drugs. There's also no evidence he had a "storage/distribution center", just your unevidenced accusation and nothing more. Now you're just making **** up. If the house was storing and distributing drugs then I'd think the cops would have found something during their investigation. Turns out they found exactly **** all at any point in time. The only thing they caught is a lawsuit.

The rest of the post is just rambling. I thought the McMicheals were guilty because of the video evidence and the fact they shot an unarmed man in cold blood. Up to this point I didn't even know he had a confederate bumper sticker. The two aren't the same.
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Old 14th October 2021, 10:12 AM   #225
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Quote:
In 2015, Owensby was called to court on drug abuse, hidden compartments/vehicle, weapons under disability, firearms in motor vehicle, as well speed charges, according to the Springfield News Sun.
Awesome. Good to see he has turned his life around by owning a drug den and opening a cash bank from the floorboard of his car. Obviously he is on the straight and narrow, these days. Why anyone would be suspicious of Nino Brown, I mean Owensby, I don't know.

Glad we got all that cleared up.
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Old 14th October 2021, 10:15 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...Because that surveillance found nothing. Their investigation found nothing.
Prove this. The police don't say so, or anyone else. They say, as has been repeated over and over, that surveillance was stopped on the property. Not a peep about the larger investigation. Put up or shut up.

Quote:
It only means something to you and your clan.
And with this, I see that you are far from any honest discussion. See ya on the next one.

Quote:
He has the first 3? What the **** are you talking about? He didn't have any drugs.
*corrected before you posted. And should have added 'suspected/surveilled distribution point*
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Old 14th October 2021, 10:21 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Prove this. The police don't say so, or anyone else. They say, as has been repeated over and over, that surveillance was stopped on the property. Not a peep about the larger investigation. Put up or shut up.
For the second time, I don't have to prove a negative. The fact that no charges have been filed, no one has been arrested, no one is in any form of trouble is all the evidence I need. You're claiming a positive. It's on you to prove the investigation yielded any results at all.

I'm still waiting for you to prove your claim that he was convicted of felonies in 2015. I can't seem to find it anywhere, but I'm sure you won't just bail without proving your claim after all.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And with this, I see that you are far from any honest discussion. See ya on the next one.
Oh, you are, convenient, that. Well, toodle-oo

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
*corrected before you posted. And should have added 'suspected/surveilled distribution point*
LoL too funny.

ETA: I'm also not sure how "recent" the drug convictions were. You've claimed 2015 but haven't backed it up. So best case scenario they were going on 7 years ago.

I did find this:

Quote:
State of Ohio v. Clifford D. Owensby, case dismissed.
That's from 2016. Sept. 2nd of 2016 actually. So the newsweek article says he was "called to court" for those charges, but I haven't seen a conviction or sentencing.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:03 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Serious question, here: what makes you think anything was a failure, or the cops had nothing on anybody? I've only seen that the surveillance was dropped on the property, nothing more. Well, ******* duh. I was able to identify the exact house in under a minute while sitting on the ******* toilet. The surveillance is blown, due to the Owensby attention, so they drop it.

But that means nothing in terms of what they did or had. When I was a low level slice-and-dice seller, the County Sheriff paid me a visit with some of his buddies, apparently cosplaying Robocop, by the way they were dressed. I had nothing, and they got nothing, but I did get some one-sided advice about entrepeneurship.

So did the Keystone cop Sheriff blow it? Nope. They disrupted the chain because I was now toxic, and no one would buy or sell to me because it was known that eyes were on me. Thus ended that endeavor. The guy I bought from was in jail about a year and a half later, with his replacement Thermal having sold to undercovers.

So how do you guys know so much about where this investigation is at, based on dropping surveillance on a single outed house? You think the whole thing happens in a week?
Why waste time on surveillance and bad traffic stops when a pop in visit is enough?

Jeez, you’re making them look even less competent.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:03 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
For the second time, I don't have to prove a negative. The fact that no charges have been filed, no one has been arrested, no one is in any form of trouble is all the evidence I need. You're claiming a positive. It's on you to prove the investigation yielded any results at all.
You genuinely don't understand this, huh? Fine. Back to grade school, then:

You are not being asked to prove a negative. Your claim was affirmative: the police found nothing. The truth is, you have not the foggiest idea what they did or didn't find in their broad drug investigation. You only know they have stopped surveillance on one property (duh), and did not find dope on Owensby. That means squat in terms of the entire investigation.

I don't know what the wider investigation did or didn't find, so I make no claims about it. You DO. Prove that the entire investigation, still underway as far as we know, has yielded bupkus.

Quote:
I'm still waiting for you to prove your claim that he was convicted of felonies in 2015. I can't seem to find it anywhere, but I'm sure you won't just bail without proving your claim after all.
Fine. Reporting, and Dr Foward a representing Owensby for the NAACP, are lying. No priors. Agreed.

It has been reported by multiple sources that he had multiple felony convictions, specifically for secret compartments built into his vehicle, heroin possession, and multiple weapons charges. Also reported is that he went before a judge in 2015 over these same charges. I admit to assuming they are referring to the same charges. If you would rather assume they are separate times he is repeatedly facing the same charges, bully for you babe. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was only once, and that beating repeated drug related raps (and sometimes losing) is not a repeated thing for him.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:07 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Why waste time on surveillance and bad traffic stops when a pop in visit is enough?

Jeez, you’re making them look even less competent.
To get the bigger fish, duh. The Sheriff didn't want me. He wanted those upstream. By casually taking me out of the picture with zero evidence, everyone was improvising and someone done screwed up while on their learning curve.

You ducked the question, btw. How do you know so much about the investigation, and it's scope and findings thus far?
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:12 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You genuinely don't understand this, huh? Fine. Back to grade school, then:

You are not being asked to prove a negative. Your claim was affirmative: the police found nothing. The truth is, you have not the foggiest idea what they did or didn't find in their broad drug investigation. You only know they have stopped surveillance on one property (duh), and did not find dope on Owensby. That means squat in terms of the entire investigation.
Yes, it's entirely possible that police may have found someone, who is not Owensby, in possession of drugs at some place that is not the house Owensby rents out and was seen leaving. But in that case it just reinforces that police found nothing indicating Owensby was involved in any way in whatever investigation that was.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:19 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I did find this:



That's from 2016. Sept. 2nd of 2016 actually. So the newsweek article says he was "called to court" for those charges, but I haven't seen a conviction or sentencing.
Oh wow, excellent find. Courts generally don't just toss felony charges for magnanimity's sake.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:27 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
To get the bigger fish, duh. The Sheriff didn't want me. He wanted those upstream. By casually taking me out of the picture with zero evidence, everyone was improvising and someone done screwed up while on their learning curve.
The big fish with all the cash in the Audi? Job well done.

Quote:
You ducked the question, btw. How do you know so much about the investigation, and it's scope and findings thus far?
Cops don’t like to look stupid. If they could show anything positive came from anything related to this debacle they would. But sometimes, stupid is as stupid looks.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:28 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You genuinely don't understand this, huh? Fine. Back to grade school, then:
Come on, bro. You know I'm so stupid you have to speak to me like a child. I haven't shown that to you? I can't hold a candle to your brilliance, your unflappable skepticism. I'm only hoping to learn from you.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You are not being asked to prove a negative. Your claim was affirmative: the police found nothing. The truth is, you have not the foggiest idea what they did or didn't find in their broad drug investigation. You only know they have stopped surveillance on one property (duh), and did not find dope on Owensby. That means squat in terms of the entire investigation.
There's no ******* evidence there is a larger investigation. So again, prove there IS a larger investigation, it's not on me to do that. My claim that they have nothing is based on the evidence THAT THEY'VE DONE NOTHING.

You're making the claim here. I'm saying that there is absolutely no evidence in any form to show there is an investigation. I would even assert that the fact they tried this hail Mary shot at finding something on Owensby is proof that there isn't anything larger. There is no evidence anywhere that they have anything at all. Right?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I don't know what the wider investigation did or didn't find, so I make no claims about it. You DO. Prove that the entire investigation, still underway as far as we know, has yielded bupkus.
You don't even know that there IS a wider investigation. You're just making that claim without anything to support it. I know I'm just a complete simpleton, but this is getting absurd.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Fine. Reporting, and Dr Foward a representing Owensby for the NAACP, are lying. No priors. Agreed.
A strawman? Really? I never said he didn't have priors, I said I found no evidence of his priors happening in 2015. That's your claim. I'm asking for evidence to support it.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It has been reported by multiple sources that he had multiple felony convictions, specifically for secret compartments built into his vehicle, heroin possession, and multiple weapons charges. Also reported is that he went before a judge in 2015 over these same charges. I admit to assuming they are referring to the same charges. If you would rather assume they are separate times he is repeatedly facing the same charges, bully for you babe. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was only once, and that beating repeated drug related raps (and sometimes losing) is not a repeated thing for him.
All I'm asking for is a source, babe. That's it.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:38 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yes, it's entirely possible that police may have found someone, who is not Owensby, in possession of drugs at some place that is not the house Owensby rents out and was seen leaving. But in that case it just reinforces that police found nothing indicating Owensby was involved in any way in whatever investigation that was.
Yes, almost anything is possible when you don't know. Its entirely possible, for instance, that police have video of this same Audi stopping at this place for three minutes every Tuesday at the same time for the last three months, but with the tinted windows and the driver not getting out, they have no positive ID. Anything is possible.

Except for anyone in this thread to crow that the police have nothing, when we have no idea what they have. That would be as stupid as claiming that owning a property makes you a landlord, and that anything you do there is therefore legitimate. Or claiming one does not know what "hommes" means.

Eta: did Owensby calling the cop "bro" perplex you too?
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:41 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
The big fish with all the cash in the Audi? Job well done.
In terms of drug deals, $23k isn't even 'big fish' territory. The only thing I can assume is they thought he had picked up drugs at the house.

A thing that strikes me as weird is that they say the dog 'alerted' (which is probably a lie) to the money, which means the money had been around drugs recently. What drugs? If the money smelled like drugs, Owensby got the money from the house, then wouldn't that be probable cause to at least knock on the door of the property?

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Cops don’t like to look stupid.
Debatable given their actions sometimes.

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
If they could show anything positive came from anything related to this debacle they would. But sometimes, stupid is as stupid looks.
Well, maybe they're just waiting to show all that positivity from the broader, on-going investigation that's maybe happening.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:44 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Anything is possible.
Except Owensby not being a drug dealer. You guys already have that case wrapped up and ready for the courts.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:07 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Come on, bro. You know I'm so stupid you have to speak to me like a child. I haven't shown that to you? I can't hold a candle to your brilliance, your unflappable skepticism. I'm only hoping to learn from you.



There's no ******* evidence there is a larger investigation. So again, prove there IS a larger investigation, it's not on me to do that. My claim that they have nothing is based on the evidence THAT THEY'VE DONE NOTHING.
The police have said the Narcotics Squad was performing surveillance and stopped Owensby, specifically, as part of that investigation. No, I don't expect the ******* Narcotics Squad to publish the ******* details and findings of an ongoing ******* investigation online. If you are claiming there is a vast conspiracy afoot and none of it exists, vaya con dios.

Quote:
You're making the claim here. I'm saying that there is absolutely no evidence in any form to show there is an investigation. I would even assert that the fact they tried this hail Mary shot at finding something on Owensby is proof that there isn't anything larger. There is no evidence anywhere that they have anything at all. Right?



You don't even know that there IS a wider investigation. You're just making that claim without anything to support it. I know I'm just a complete simpleton, but this is getting absurd.



A strawman? Really? I never said he didn't have priors, I said I found no evidence of his priors happening in 2015. That's your claim. I'm asking for evidence to support it.



All I'm asking for is a source, babe. That's it.
Would you PLEASE drop this **** about throwing a fit if someone breathes the word "stupid"? You've flung that and many other insults at me and others with abandon, and you don't see anyone else going ape ****, do you? Get the **** over it.

I have said where I got my information. No, I'm not going to hack the Dayton police arrest records to back up multiple claims by multiple sources. I don even care when these ALLEGED convictions occurred, if at all. I assume the same claims made by multiple sources refer to the same round of charges. You apparently assume multiple rounds of the same charges. You go, baby.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:09 PM   #239
Checkmite
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, almost anything is possible when you don't know. Its entirely possible, for instance, that police have video of this same Audi stopping at this place for three minutes every Tuesday at the same time for the last three months, but with the tinted windows and the driver not getting out, they have no positive ID. Anything is possible.

Except for anyone in this thread to crow that the police have nothing, when we have no idea what they have.
We very much can safely infer that police do not have evidence of Owensby committing a crime. Pragmatically-speaking, "the police have found nothing" is the only hypothesis that is compatible with the facts we observe - i.e., no arrests, the house no longer being surveilled, Owensby not being charged with anything drug related. Had the police found something (evidence of some crime involving Owensby), one or more of those observations would be different.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:18 PM   #240
plague311
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The police have said the Narcotics Squad was performing surveillance and stopped Owensby, specifically, as part of that investigation. No, I don't expect the ******* Narcotics Squad to publish the ******* details and findings of an ongoing ******* investigation online. If you are claiming there is a vast conspiracy afoot and none of it exists, vaya con dios.
I mean, with the level of brilliance we've seen from them so far I wouldn't be shocked if they did publish everything online. Again though, we don't really know if there's an ongoing investigation.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Would you PLEASE drop this **** about throwing a fit if someone breathes the word "stupid"? You've flung that and many other insults at me and others with abandon, and you don't see anyone else going ape ****, do you? Get the **** over it.
I went ape ****? Was it the off-the-cuff one-liner?

You're right though, if you call me stupid I'm going to address it. If you don't want me to do that, don't call me stupid. Your call.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I have said where I got my information.
No, you haven't.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No, I'm not going to hack the Dayton police arrest records to back up multiple claims by multiple sources. I don even care when these ALLEGED convictions occurred, if at all. I assume the same claims made by multiple sources refer to the same round of charges. You apparently assume multiple rounds of the same charges. You go, baby.
Right, you don't care. You just want to use his priors whenever it's convenient. My point in bringing them up is that people change, even in 5-7 years. Shocking, I know.

If Owensby was able to buy some property, get some income from a job (we don't even know what he does for a living. Well, I guess you do, he's a drug dealer, amiright?), and carve himself out a decent life without the need for drugs then it's not fair to judge him by that. You don't seem to care. Which, as I mentioned, is a problem for me. If criminals can never change, and people are going to judge them forever based on a mistake they made, then that should be considered part of the punishment.
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Last edited by plague311; 14th October 2021 at 12:20 PM.
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