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Old 11th October 2021, 09:26 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
If the woman knew the person from her apartment, why even bother with the confrontation? "That's Jim from 2A. Just call the cops and I will be a witness to the theft and give his home address." With the facts in hand, there is literally no reason to do anything besides let the crime happen and have the authorities deal with it.
Indeed. Proactively calling or waiting for the police to arrive and telling them the thief's exact identity would even seem to solve JoeMorgue's urge to "do something" besides just letting him get away with it.

I suspect the problem in this case is that she just really wanted to use her gun to heroically kill someone "bad" and convinced herself this was the opportunity she's been waiting for. Shooting the guy moments after he had brushed past her and was running away is consistent with this, as if it took a couple of seconds for her to realize, though erroneously, "wait - touching me is assault, I can definitely shoot him now!"
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Old 12th October 2021, 04:34 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
In this case it looks about 50/50. The perp that did the shoplifting was a victim of a shooting. The perp that was arrested for shooting the guy, on the other hand, does not seem to be a victim of any sort.
Not close to 50/50. The shoplifter is looking at a petty theft charge, maybe unarmed robbery if they decide pushing pass Wyatt Earp counts as violence in commission of a theft. Unless he has a tons of priors, probably not looking at much prison time if any at all.

Our vigilante is looking at a minimum aggravated assault, if not outright attempted murder. Even with a clean record, this is likely going to be a dramatically life changing experience with the criminal justice system.
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Old 12th October 2021, 04:39 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Indeed. Proactively calling or waiting for the police to arrive and telling them the thief's exact identity would even seem to solve JoeMorgue's urge to "do something" besides just letting him get away with it.

I suspect the problem in this case is that she just really wanted to use her gun to heroically kill someone "bad" and convinced herself this was the opportunity she's been waiting for. Shooting the guy moments after he had brushed past her and was running away is consistent with this, as if it took a couple of seconds for her to realize, though erroneously, "wait - touching me is assault, I can definitely shoot him now!"
Some people respond to carrying a weapon by moderating their behavior, rightly realizing that it's not worth escalating petty conflicts knowing that it could lead to deadly violence.

Others see the hidden gun on their hip as an ace up their sleeve and are emboldened to let no slight or petty injustice pass without confrontation.

To add my own baseless speculation to the pot, I very much doubt this woman would have tried to confront a petty thief if she didn't have the ultimate trump card on hand.
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Old 12th October 2021, 05:33 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Not close to 50/50. The shoplifter is looking at a petty theft charge, maybe unarmed robbery if they decide pushing pass Wyatt Earp counts as violence in commission of a theft. Unless he has a tons of priors, probably not looking at much prison time if any at all.

Our vigilante is looking at a minimum aggravated assault, if not outright attempted murder. Even with a clean record, this is likely going to be a dramatically life changing experience with the criminal justice system.
In context, and in response to the post I was responding to, it was exactly 50/50. One perp was also a victim, one perp was not a victim. The seriousness of the respective crimes is irrelevant to my point.
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Old 12th October 2021, 05:58 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Too right, and now we'll all get to wait and see how long her "stupid prize" ends up being. She better hope the guy lives, he's listed in critical condition.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's hard to take you seriously when you have hung up on beer quality in murder case.
Technically it was Warp12 that was hung up on beer quality, as that was the post he was replying to, where Warp12 mentioned Natty.
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Old 12th October 2021, 08:09 AM   #86
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I feel like this story is a pitch for like the fourth or fifth worst Steven Segal movie ever.
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Old 12th October 2021, 08:11 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I feel like this story is a pitch for like the fourth or fifth worst Steven Segal movie ever.
It would have to be a short.
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Old 12th October 2021, 08:13 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It would have to be a short.
Steve could flesh it out by recounting how he worked for the CIA for 20 years, Navy SEALs for thirty, being a sniper for 45, Delta Force since WWI...
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Old 12th October 2021, 08:19 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It would have to be a short.
Single shot.
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Old 12th October 2021, 08:20 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I feel like this story is a pitch for like the fourth or fifth worst Steven Segal movie ever.
I was thinking this might be a role for Glenn Danzig, based on the looks of the shooter.
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Old 12th October 2021, 08:37 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
Looks like you need a better way to keep score.

2 victims and 2 perps. The store is a victim of a robbery. The guy is a victim of attempted murder. He is also the robber. The women who shot him attempted to kill him over property. There is no self defense here.

The idea that robbery justifies murder is an ethical compromise that is unhealthy to make both for the individual and for society as a whole. Anybody or any institution willing to make the compromise cannot be trusted to make sound judgements either morally or legally. Any system of rational justice makes sure that the punishment is proportional to the crime. Murder is not proportional to stealing a case of beer.
Actually no, unless basic facts about this have been misreported. The store is a victim of shoplifting. Robbery means force or threat of force to take something of value. He grabbed beer and tried to leave. Someone got in his way, and he pushed by her, but that doesn't make it robbery which is a felony while shoplifting is a misdemeanor (in AZ if the property is under $1000 and not a gun).
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Old 12th October 2021, 09:01 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I was thinking this might be a role for Glenn Danzig, based on the looks of the shooter.
It's certainly not a flattering picture in the article, that's for sure. She's apparently a makeup artist that had dreams of being an actor. At one time lived in Las Vegas.

Here's her "Explore Talent" profile. With some pictures a bit less mugshotty.

Here's a twitter account of hers, but she hasn't posted anything in about 9ish + years. It would appear she's some form of a nurse or hospital employee.

All-in-all she seems fairly normal. Maybe she got caught up in the moment.

ETA: Looks like in 2016 she had a gofundme as well, due to her apartment burning down. Her and her friend\significant other\heterolifemate were looking for some funds, and got them, to move into a new place.
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Last edited by plague311; 12th October 2021 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 12th October 2021, 09:22 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
If the woman knew the person from her apartment, why even bother with the confrontation? "That's Jim from 2A. Just call the cops and I will be a witness to the theft and give his home address." With the facts in hand, there is literally no reason to do anything besides let the crime happen and have the authorities deal with it.
.....
If that's true I wonder whether she had some previous interaction with him that left her looking to get even. Would she have intervened against a complete stranger?
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Old 12th October 2021, 09:38 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's hard to take you seriously when you have hung up on beer quality in murder case.
If the beer was worth killing for, I want to know what beer it was. And I don’t drink beer much anymore.

Eta: Of the Natty family of beers Naturdays would be my top choice. It can be hard to find sometimes, too. Just putting that into the discussion.
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Old 12th October 2021, 09:56 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
If the beer was worth killing for, I want to know what beer it was. And I don’t drink beer much anymore.

Eta: Of the Natty family of beers Naturdays would be my top choice. It can be hard to find sometimes, too. Just putting that into the discussion.
It would be a hell of an advertising campaign.

Quote:
Naturdays, the beer so good you'll take a bullet for more!
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Old 12th October 2021, 10:00 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
If the beer was worth killing for, I want to know what beer it was. And I don’t drink beer much anymore.

Eta: Of the Natty family of beers Naturdays would be my top choice. It can be hard to find sometimes, too. Just putting that into the discussion.
Maui Coconut Porter, yo. I'd kill a mother ****** to get a hold of a six of that.
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Old 12th October 2021, 10:56 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No way. I'd prefer that no one was able to legally carry, much less shoot, in all but the most dire circumstances. Just a little fascinated with how differently words are interpreted by different people.

To me, "he tried to push past her" does not at all mean the assault was in the past tense, or even that he succeeded in pushing past. Sounds more to me like he shoved her and she didn't give ground. It's my argument on almost every contentious thread: how much baggage are readers hanging on to the story?
So how did he run away, then? Don't pretend he didn't. If he didn't run off, how was he apprehended someplace else? If she gave no ground the guy would still be at the Circle K, dead probably.
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Old 12th October 2021, 11:02 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
So how did he run away, then? Don't pretend he didn't. If he didn't run off, how was he apprehended someplace else? If she gave no ground the guy would still be at the Circle K, dead probably.
Act 1: shoves woman, attempting to pass by her
Act 2: she gives no ground, leaving them still face to face
Act 3: she shoots. Like most shooting victims, he does not drop immediately, and again rushes by her, wounded but escaping this time.
Fin: bleeds out and collapses nearby

*curtain falls*
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Old 12th October 2021, 11:31 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
She's apparently a makeup artist that had dreams of being an actor.
She's certainly got her 15 minutes of fame, so it all worked out in the end.
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Old 12th October 2021, 11:32 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
She's certainly got her 15 minutes of fame, so it all worked out in the end.
Absolutely, things are definitely looking up.
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Old 12th October 2021, 11:55 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Maui Coconut Porter, yo. I'd kill a mother ****** to get a hold of a six of that.
Noted. I do like a good porter.
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Old 12th October 2021, 11:57 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It would be a hell of an advertising campaign.
May work better for Coors light?

Although I do like their current “the official beer of Saturday morning.”
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Old 12th October 2021, 12:10 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Noted. I do like a good porter.
I think it's called Hiwa or Hiya or something. It won all kinds of medals. I'm not talking Participation Medals, either. I'm talking Commiting to Becoming a Hawaiian Parking Lot Alchy Medals. Only found it on Oahu and a dive in Maryland.
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Old 12th October 2021, 05:02 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Act 1: shoves woman, attempting to pass by her
Act 2: she gives no ground, leaving them still face to face
Act 3: she shoots. Like most shooting victims, he does not drop immediately, and again rushes by her, wounded but escaping this time.
Fin: bleeds out and collapses nearby

*curtain falls*

Wrong. It's all in the reports yet you seem to be inventing facts not in existence.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/woman-...71efeefee.html

Quote:
Shekhmoos then said she walked into the store after him and told the clerk, who allegedly said they assumed "he was going to steal beer again." Shekhmoos told the clerk she wasn't going to allow the man to leave with the beer. As the man approached the door with a case of beer, police paperwork says Shekhmoos put her arm out and told the man he couldn't leave with the beer and warned him not to touch her and that she had a gun. The man pushed into her with his chest and case of beer, eventually pushing past her, nearly knocking her down.

He didn't break the law pushing past her. She tried to impede his progress and he pushed past her. The word "shove" is not used. But even if he did she had no right to shoot him.

Quote:
Shekhmoos pulled out her gun and shot the man as he was leaving the store, still carrying the beer. Shekhmoos admitted the man was walking away when she decided to shoot,

I also would push past anyone trying to keep me from leaving a convenience store. Hands off, wtf?
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Old 12th October 2021, 05:19 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I also would push past anyone trying to keep me from leaving a convenience store. Hands off, wtf?
Even if they told you they had a gun?
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Old 12th October 2021, 07:16 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Wrong. It's all in the reports yet you seem to be inventing facts not in existence.
*rubbing temples*

Dude. Kick it out of screensaver for a bit.

That poster was asking about a page one post of mine, where I commented on the ambiguity of the article wording.

None of the subsequent information was on the table yet. It was just about the article phrasing, not what we learned since then.

Up to speed now?
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Old 13th October 2021, 12:02 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, I hope he learned his lesson. Douche.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Indeed! Death penalty for all that irks us. This is the logical and predictable outcome of the gun lobby's goal of a gun in every pocket... Well, not every pocket, let's be fair: every White, GOP pocket. The police will rightfully surround and draw weapons on non-Whites who legally open carry. Can't have armed lesser humans!
Let's see, no mask, deadly virus... let's draw on them GOP suckers and donate some lead! What a wonderful idea, this gunning down anything we feel wrong!! Who needs law, judges or juries? Fantastic savings.
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Old 13th October 2021, 08:25 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
None of the subsequent information was on the table yet. It was just about the article phrasing, not what we learned since then.
All of the information he posted was available when you made your very first page 1 statement. You just didn't look anywhere else except the OP's link.

In fact, you made the initial statement on 10/11 @ 10:43 a.m., then said something very similar at 11:28 a.m., and then again at 11:42 a.m. and then I provided 3 sources refuting it all at 12:03 p.m.

It was wrong from the get-go. The initial post was a little bit vague, but all of the correct information was readily available at the time.
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Old 13th October 2021, 08:32 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
All of the information he posted was available when you made your very first page 1 statement. You just didn't look anywhere else except the OP's link.

In fact, you made the initial statement on 10/11 @ 10:43 a.m., then said something very similar at 11:28 a.m., and then again at 11:42 a.m. and then I provided 3 sources refuting it all at 12:03 p.m.

It was wrong from the get-go. The initial post was a little bit vague, but all of the correct information was readily available at the time.
*rubbing temples*

Yes,
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
that's what my post was commenting on. The ambiguity of the language, and the way different people interpret the same wording. There's now three separate posters who genuinely can't figure that out. Astounding, in it's way.
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Old 13th October 2021, 08:51 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
*rubbing temples*

Yes,
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
that's what my post was commenting on. The ambiguity of the language, and the way different people interpret the same wording. There's now three separate posters who genuinely can't figure that out. Astounding, in it's way.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
you said, and I ******* quote:

Originally Posted by Thermal
None of the subsequent information was on the table yet.
I merely pointed out this statement is complete and total ********. It was all on the table. It was all readily available for your consumption at the very time you made every single post you've ever made in this thread, ever. You were just either too lazy or didn't care enough to look it up.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Last edited by zooterkin; 15th October 2021 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 13th October 2021, 09:28 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Don't call me a
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
, you said, and I ******* quote:



I merely pointed out this statement is complete and total ********. It was all on the table. It was all readily available for your consumption at the very time you made every single post you've ever made in this thread, ever. You were just either too lazy or didn't care enough to look it up.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
If everyone here did that there would be no more forum.
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Old 13th October 2021, 09:41 AM   #112
Thermal
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
you said, and I ******* quote:



I merely pointed out this statement is complete and total ********. It was all on the table. It was all readily available for your consumption at the very time you made every single post you've ever made in this thread, ever. You were just either too lazy or didn't care enough to look it up.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
.
Right. "On the table". That means presented for discussion here. As if it was "on the table" in front of us.

Do you really not understand that, or are you ******* with me?
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Last edited by zooterkin; 15th October 2021 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 13th October 2021, 09:46 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
If everyone here did that there would be no more forum.
I know this a joke, but the idea that we need wrong opinions or we're "in an echo chamber" is a damaging one.

There's plenty to talk about under the umbrella of "Not completely insane fact-less nonsense."
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Old 13th October 2021, 09:53 AM   #114
plague311
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Right. "On the table". That means presented for discussion here. As if it was "on the table" in front of us.

Do you really not understand that, or are you ******* with me?
LoL Jesus Christ. The topic was "on the table". If you're going to use this sad ass, ******** excuse that no one spoon fed you the information, so you're not responsible for making completely made up scenarios out of no where due to be too lazy to do anything beyond read the quoted parts of the OP, then go right ahead.
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Old 13th October 2021, 10:23 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Right. "On the table". That means presented for discussion here. As if it was "on the table" in front of us.

Do you really not understand that, or are you ******* with me?
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
There's plenty to talk about under the umbrella of "Not completely insane fact-less nonsense."
It might require some personality modifications for certain posters
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Old 13th October 2021, 10:26 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
It might require some personality modifications for certain posters
Does commenting on ambiguous wording in the OP article, and how different posters run with it, qualify as "completely insane and factless nonsense"? This isn't the International Stupid Forum, you know.
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Old 13th October 2021, 10:41 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Does commenting on ambiguous wording in the OP article, and how different posters run with it, qualify as "completely insane and factless nonsense"? This isn't the International Stupid Forum, you know.
News article poorly written? That should have its own sub forum, don’t you think?
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Old 13th October 2021, 10:45 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Does commenting on ambiguous wording in the OP article, and how different posters run with it, qualify as "completely insane and factless nonsense"? This isn't the International Stupid Forum, you know.
You're right. The best thing to do when you find an ambiguously worded article is to not go out and find clarifying information.

Just go off of that one post, because no one else has found more info for you, and then call everyone else "dummy" and "stupid" because you can't be bothered to take a skeptics approach.
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Old 13th October 2021, 10:49 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You're right. The best thing to do when you find an ambiguously worded article is to not go out and find clarifying information.

Just go off of that one post, because no one else has found more info for you, and then call everyone else "dummy" and "stupid" because you can't be bothered to take a skeptics approach.
Christ, you're still banging on about this???

My comment was about interpretations of ambiguous wording. It was not a goddamned forensic reconstruction of the story, with all the available information out there in the Universe.

Jesus, this place.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:15 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Christ, you're still banging on about this???
Christ, are you still banging on about this?
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