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Old 13th October 2021, 11:19 AM   #121
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All of these shenanigans aside, I'd really like to know if they intend to up the charges. I can't imagine how this could stay at aggravated assault. There has to be a more suitable charge than that.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:25 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
All of these shenanigans aside, I'd really like to know if they intend to up the charges. I can't imagine how this could stay at aggravated assault. There has to be a more suitable charge than that.
Pretty confident the prosecutor will up them. This was a freaking vigilante execution, by the looks of it. Hopefully they are putting together charges that will stick.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:30 AM   #123
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I worry that a jury would see her as being in the right. I think they'll end up give her a plea deal just because they don't want to risk it with the jury. Arizona is a stand your ground state, but I can't imagine that would save her much. It wasn't her property, she wasn't under attack and, as you said, I think she just wanted to shoot someone.

I am curious about them knowing each other before hand, or at least her being familiar with him.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:31 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I worry that a jury would see her as being in the right. I think they'll end up give her a plea deal just because they don't want to risk it with the jury. Arizona is a stand your ground state, but I can't imagine that would save her much. It wasn't her property, she wasn't under attack and, as you said, I think she just wanted to shoot someone.

I am curious about them knowing each other before hand, or at least her being familiar with him.
They will give her a plea deal because almost every criminal case ends in a plea. Trial by Jury functionally doesn't exist in this country except in very rare circumstances.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:33 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
They will give her a plea deal because almost every criminal case ends in a plea. Trial by Jury functionally doesn't exist in this country except in very rare circumstances.
None of this is wrong, really. My point wasn't clear, I was more referring to a "sweetheart deal", as they're known.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:37 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
None of this is wrong, really. My point wasn't clear, I was more referring to a "sweetheart deal", as they're known.
Yes, in that case the local DA has a lot of discretion. They could play hard ball or let this lady plea out to a much lesser charge.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:54 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yes, in that case the local DA has a lot of discretion. They could play hard ball or let this lady plea out to a much lesser charge.
Never know, it could be a case where the DA doesn't even offer a deal, or offers one that she wouldn't take just to go to trial.

She did shoot a man in the back that was running away from her after a non-violent confrontation. There is no requirement to offer a plea. It could go any direction at this point.
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Old 13th October 2021, 01:28 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Does commenting on ambiguous wording in the OP article, and how different posters run with it, qualify as "completely insane and factless nonsense"? This isn't the International Stupid Forum, you know.
You could go and find clearer information......
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Old 13th October 2021, 05:50 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I agree. arrest and prosecution would be the stupid prize if there wasn't a psychopath in the parking lot with a gun
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Old 13th October 2021, 05:53 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Drivel.
Nice, well-reasoned refutation.

Only a coward or a psychopath fires a gun at someone not directly threatening their life with commensurate force.
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Old 13th October 2021, 05:53 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I agree. arrest and prosecution would be the stupid prize if there wasn't a psychopath in the parking lot with a gun
Is there anything I could say that would convince you your point has been heard, and you don't need to keep repeating it?
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Old 13th October 2021, 05:54 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
So is a swimming pool.

- The NRA
Da, comrade!
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:00 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Nice, well-reasoned refutation.

Only a coward or a psychopath fires a gun at someone not directly threatening their life with commensurate force.
What a weird argument. Waiting until someone shoots at you, to shoot back, gives up the best chance of survival you have.

Is a homeowner in a wheelchair supposed to submit to a hale and hearty invader, because all she has is a gun and he's just using his fists?

No.

The ideal self defense response to a knife is not another knife. It's a gun. (Really, it's a good pair of running shoes, but not everyone is a good runner. And not everyone can afford to run away from the thing in dispute.)
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:03 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Even if they told you they had a gun?
In the US?

Telling me you had a gun while you were illegally detaining me would cause me to kick at your groin and try to bash your head in with beer and then stomping on your hands.
I would certainly try my hardest to incapacitate someone who directly threatened my life like that.
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:22 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
In the US?

Telling me you had a gun while you were illegally detaining me would cause me to kick at your groin and try to bash your head in with beer and then stomping on your hands.
I would certainly try my hardest to incapacitate someone who directly threatened my life like that.
You would be shot. Now the gun is being used in a legitimate case of self-defence. I would be able to kill you and the law would be on my side.
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:24 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
In the US?

Telling me you had a gun while you were illegally detaining me would cause me to kick at your groin and try to bash your head in with beer and then stomping on your hands.
I would certainly try my hardest to incapacitate someone who directly threatened my life like that.
And yet again, its the refreshing beverage that has to pay the price for our baser instincts.
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Old 14th October 2021, 01:35 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What a weird argument. Waiting until someone shoots at you, to shoot back, gives up the best chance of survival you have.
Autumn1971 didn't say anything about waiting until someone was shooting at you; just that at the very least they should be threatening your life, whether with a gun or something equally deadly, before you shoot them, else you're a coward or a psychopath.
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Old 14th October 2021, 11:24 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I would like to point out, sir, we have no idea if it was actually a refreshing beverage. It could have been sitting on the shelf, and be Miller High Life (I don't care who you are or what you say, that beer is piss).

The man is robbing shoplifting a Special Circle K, he doesn't make the greatest of choices.
Fixed it for you.
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Old 15th October 2021, 06:36 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Fixed it for you.
Much appreciated.
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Old 15th October 2021, 06:41 AM   #140
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Any word on whether this dumb thief has died over that case of beer, yet?
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Old 15th October 2021, 06:47 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Any word on whether this dumb thief has died over that case of beer, yet?
Oh, sorry, does google not work for you or was this just a way for you to get some negative attention that you so desperately need?
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Old 15th October 2021, 06:49 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Oh, sorry, does google not work for you or was this just a way for you to get some negative attention that you so desperately need?
Do you have an answer? I couldn't find any medical update on google?
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Old 15th October 2021, 06:53 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Any word on whether this dumb thief has died over that case of beer, yet?
Does it matter, other than to determine which charges the even dumber shooter will face?
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Old 15th October 2021, 06:56 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Do you have an answer?
Yes I do have an answer, thank you for asking.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I couldn't find any medical update on google?
Perhaps your local community college has classes in how to use google, including the proper way to perform searches.

Good luck
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Old 15th October 2021, 07:36 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Does it matter, other than to determine which charges the even dumber shooter will face?
I don't know, dude. Given these two options, which would you choose:

A. Be telling your friends in thief heaven about how you got killed over stealing a case of beer.

or,

B. Be alive, and take your chances in court on ANY charge.

I'd choose option "B", every time.

And I'd say the charges are very important in this discussion. They are probably ultra-important to "Glenn Danzig in drag". The thief doesn't have much say in it at this point.
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Old 15th October 2021, 07:49 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't know, dude. Given these two options, which would you choose:

A. Be telling your friends in thief heaven about how you got killed over stealing a case of beer.

or,

B. Be alive, and take your chances in court on ANY charge.

I'd choose option "B", every time.

And I'd say the charges are very important in this discussion. They are probably ultra-important to "Glenn Danzig in drag". The thief doesn't have much say in it at this point.
I would choose to not put my myself in a position where those options, nor those below, become necessary.

Now answer me this:

Given these two options, which would you choose:

A. Be telling your good friends in prison about how you planned to shoot, followed, and then killed, a shoplifter over stealing a case of beer.

or,

B. Mind your own business, let the shoplifter commit his petty crime and be free to go about your own business for years to come.

I'd choose option "B", every time.

ETA - not well versed in this stuff, but I thought that in the world of Christianity hardened criminals such as beer thieves ended up in hell, not heaven.
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Old 15th October 2021, 07:55 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I would choose to not put my myself in a position where those options, nor those below, become necessary.
That's not an answer to the question I posed. We are where we are, at this point.
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Old 15th October 2021, 08:01 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
That's not an answer to the question I posed. We are where we are, at this point.
LoL we are where we are? You're making up fantasy scenarios about what a thief would say when he got to "thief heaven" and you're chastising others? Can you identify when we got to the point of "thief heaven"?

Did you find out if he died or not? Still struggling with the googs?
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Old 15th October 2021, 08:02 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
LoL we are where we are? You're making up fantasy scenarios about what a thief would say when he got to "thief heaven" and you're chastising others? Can you identify when we got to the point of "thief heaven"?

Did you find out if he died or not? Still struggling with the googs?
Yeah, where we are is that this guy is possibly going to die over a case of beer. If he hasn't already. And the shooter is going to court.
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Old 15th October 2021, 08:06 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, where we are is that this guy is possibly (or?) going to die over a case of beer. And the shooter is going to court. prison.
FTFY.

You keep implying like it's pathetic that this man is going to "die over a case of beer", but for some reason haven't pointed out how pathetic it is that "cross dressing Danzig" decided to (attempted) murder over the same case of beer.

Why is that? Do you think?
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Old 15th October 2021, 12:25 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
That's not an answer to the question I posed. We are where we are, at this point.
Of course it's not. The question you posed was unreasonable and under no circumstances would apply to me. Nonetheless, I provided you with a reasonable response.

FTR - "heaven" is an imaginary place so there is no way I would ever find myself chatting with someone there.
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Old 15th October 2021, 12:35 PM   #152
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I suppose its lucky she hit the actual shoplifter rather than an innocent bystander, assuming this wasn't a case of it being someone she thought was shoplifting. Also what if the supposed shoplifter had a gun? Or one of the staff or other customers who thought she was a some maniac going on a killing spree?
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Old 15th October 2021, 08:00 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
FTFY.

You keep implying like it's pathetic that this man is going to "die over a case of beer", but for some reason haven't pointed out how pathetic it is that "cross dressing Danzig" decided to (attempted) murder over the same case of beer.

Why is that? Do you think?



Because you're being warped.


And I like the hilighted! I hope I can use this in real life soon.
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Old 15th October 2021, 10:45 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I worry that a jury would see her as being in the right. I think they'll end up give her a plea deal just because they don't want to risk it with the jury. Arizona is a stand your ground state, but I can't imagine that would save her much. It wasn't her property, she wasn't under attack and, as you said, I think she just wanted to shoot someone.
Stand your ground wouldn't apply to someone else's property. On the other hand, Arizona has a much more restrictive set of Citizen's Arrest laws than many other places. Here in Oregon, for example, it is legal to make a citizen's arrest over even a misdemeanor (though use of force laws apply as well). In Arizona, citizen's arrests are limited to a pretty extreme set of felonies. Shoplifting isn't even close to one of them - though incidentally Aggravated Assault is.
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Old 17th October 2021, 08:04 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
They will give her a plea deal because almost every criminal case ends in a plea. Trial by Jury functionally doesn't exist in this country except in very rare circumstances.

And one of those very rare circumstances is starting up in Glynn County, Georgia right now.

I guess we'll see how that goes. Mebbe the defendants will get a plea offer.

Mebbe they're counting on how hard it is to get a jury in rural Georgia to convict white men for murdering a black man.
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Old 17th October 2021, 09:05 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And one of those very rare circumstances is starting up in Glynn County, Georgia right now.

I guess we'll see how that goes. Mebbe the defendants will get a plea offer.

Mebbe they're counting on how hard it is to get a jury in rural Georgia to convict white men for murdering a black man.
Considering that the local prosecutors wanted their boys to walk until the video came out, that's*not an unreasonable expectation.

Last edited by Bob001; 17th October 2021 at 09:15 PM.
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