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Old 2nd November 2020, 06:53 PM   #1
Mader Levap
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Choice 2020.

Certain people of the world living in certain pseudo-democracy have choice now*.

☐ Slightly slow down rot of USA. What, you thought stopping or even reversing it? Haha, no.

☐ Accelerate significantly rot of USA, already quickened by previous choice in 2016.

Choose wisely.

Anyway I will be today (well, after sleeping due to timezone thing) all day to watch election in pseudodemocracy that happens to be in process of transformation into right-wing authoritarian state and hoping this process will be delayed at least somewhat. Good luck!

*Yes, I know, they were voting for weeks by now, shush.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 01:19 PM   #2
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Glad someone agrees that the USA is slowly going downhill. Have been watching it go down for several decades.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 01:21 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Glad someone agrees that the USA is slowly going downhill. Have been watching it go down for several decades.
It depends on what that means. In many ways I agree and in others I disagree.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 08:08 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It depends on what that means. In many ways I agree and in others I disagree.
I am looking at GDP figures. It used to be that the USA had the highest GDP per person. Now it is nowhere near that.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 09:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Glad someone agrees that the USA is slowly going downhill. Have been watching it go down for several decades.
I think the inflection point was in 1971, when the US fell out of the Bretton Woods Agreement because they couldn't support the dollar and pay for the Vietnam War without raising taxes. For the first time a limit was reached.

As a Brit born in the 50's I have some experience of the decline from uncontested influence over affairs. Until 2016 I thought we'd handled it pretty well (far better than the French handled their imaginary influence), and then Brexit. And then Trump, to make it One Very Bad Year. Terribly disappointing, but what the heck, Father Time's tapping his watch over me.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 09:04 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I am looking at GDP figures. It used to be that the USA had the highest GDP per person. Now it is nowhere near that.
Itís only a few small countries which beat us on that metric. We could have done better if we had restricted immigration more. But itís still been rising steadily for the past 50+ years, so how does that qualify as a decline?
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Old 3rd November 2020, 09:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I am looking at GDP figures. It used to be that the USA had the highest GDP per person. Now it is nowhere near that.
US GDP has always been governed by primary production and that's falling away, despite the hype of fracking. A 20th Century product has no future.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 10:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Itís only a few small countries which beat us on that metric. We could have done better if we had restricted immigration more. But itís still been rising steadily for the past 50+ years, so how does that qualify as a decline?
I compare it with other countries. Yes, GDP will rise over time, but that could be due to inflation, or population size. Singapore, Ireland, Norway, Kuwait, Hong Kong, Switzerland all have larger GDPs per person and have populations over 1 million and in 2002, when I first looked, the USA was number 3 and wealthier than these other countries.

Ref: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...11rank.html#US

It is also handling Covid 19 very badly. Trump may be a joke of a President, but I suggest he is only a symptom of the problem rather than a cause. The rot started long before him.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 10:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I compare it with other countries. Yes, GDP will rise over time, but that could be due to inflation, or population size. Singapore, Ireland, Norway, Kuwait, Hong Kong, Switzerland all have larger GDPs per person and have populations over 1 million and in 2002, when I first looked, the USA was number 3 and wealthier than these other countries.

Ref: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...11rank.html#US

It is also handling Covid 19 very badly. Trump may be a joke of a President, but I suggest he is only a symptom of the problem rather than a cause. The rot started long before him.
The USA is washed up ad a democracy, and probably in every other way as well.
No the choice is do we fight back by any means necessary or focus on inidvidual survival?
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Old 3rd November 2020, 11:50 PM   #10
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I think it is a bit late. Trump has attracted many votes. The point is that many people in the USA want the decline to continue. And if Trump wins the country is in bad shape.
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Old 4th November 2020, 12:39 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Glad someone agrees that the USA is slowly going downhill. Have been watching it go down for several decades.
It's in dire straits and need to be taken. Sadly it might be ruled for four more years by a strongman who cares naught about the country's problems, only about enriching himself and steering the country towards white supremacist dictatorship for good measure.

And as I keep saying, in a country with only 70% whites, where whites are a minority in many areas, trying for white supremacism is one heck of a gambit.
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Old 4th November 2020, 12:42 AM   #12
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I do believe a Trump victory would spell doom for US as a free country, and also accelerate the process of decline. Not to mention there'll be countless more covid deaths, perhaps in the millions. The economy will keep tanking. The FŁhrer will blame everything on the usual scape goats, while making things more and more intolerable for minorities and liberals. US foreign relations will keep deteriorating, and shifting towards supporting authoritarian regimes, and pulling away from the fight against climate change.

I don't see Trump 2020-2024 ending well for anyone.
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Old 4th November 2020, 12:49 AM   #13
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Do I believe the US is inevitably collapsing, like the Roman empire during its decline? No. But fixing everything from health care and significant income inequality, to the justice system and police force, to its crumbling infrastructure, to the damaged foreign relations, will take time and political effort, not to mention large amounts of money, which is a problem given the US' towering debt, which is apparently expected to become unmanagable by 2050. And that's before I even get into the dumbing-down and polarisation of American society, and the drift into a post-fact world where rational, unifying public discourse is all but impossible in the first place.

Honestly, if the trumpkins want to destroy their country this badly, and the opponents are so horrible, they should just let the blue states secede and leave the red states to rot. I'm thinking all the west coast states. Sacramento or San Fransisco could become the capital of the Blue States of America. Or maybe Seattle. I like Seattle.
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Old 4th November 2020, 07:18 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I compare it with other countries. Yes, GDP will rise over time, but that could be due to inflation, or population size.
Ummm... per capital GDP doesnít increase due to population increase. Itís per capita. Do you not know what that means? And the increase includes inflation adjustment.

Quote:
Singapore, Ireland, Norway, Kuwait, Hong Kong, Switzerland all have larger GDPs per person and have populations over 1 million and in 2002, when I first looked, the USA was number 3 and wealthier than these other countries.
Millions vs hundreds of millions. Yeah, they are all small.

Quote:
It is also handling Covid 19 very badly. Trump may be a joke of a President, but I suggest he is only a symptom of the problem rather than a cause. The rot started long before him.
Moving the goalposts, I see. Understandable, given your previous claim collapsed in flames. But I wonder how you account for European infections soaring past the US lately?
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