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Old 8th February 2019, 03:13 PM   #41
Skeptic Ginger
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New analysis of the outbreak out: Local news: 'Sad reality': Handful of WA measles outbreak sites are in Russian-speaking communities
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At least eight outbreak sites in Clark County or Portland are, or have been, in Slavic churches or schools. In fact, Russian-speaking communities, according to a 2012 report – the last of its kind – have the lowest vaccination rates in Washington state....

Negative beliefs around vaccination centers around mistrust of health care, language and cultural barriers, strong dissatisfaction with health care providers based on pressure, lack of information about vaccination, and disrespect – among other things.

“Many Slavic immigrants endured the harshness of the Soviet regime under a totalitarian government,” said Stasyuk, who is a senior data analyst with the Washington Health Alliance. “This has led to a lot of anti-government sentiment and a distrust of the academy, science, and public health, which were sponsored by the government.”
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Old 9th February 2019, 03:33 PM   #42
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Here is an example of the Slavic lack of education: https://www.oregonlive.com/health/20...ther-says.html



A clown show showed up in Olympia: https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.c...health-begins/
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Old 9th February 2019, 03:42 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post

A clown show showed up in Olympia: https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.c...health-begins/
That's an enlightening article.

RFK Jr thinks vitamin A cures measles. The article does a good job representing the anti-vaxxer beliefs followed by why they are lies and false beliefs.
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Old 9th February 2019, 04:09 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
.....

Anyone want to start a poll on how many total cases there are going to be before this is over? Maybe 1-2% of three high schools depending on when they send unvaccinated kids home?
So how is you prognistication doing?

1) Better than Nostradamus

2) Better than Sylvia Brown

3) On Plane X they doen't allow alarmism.
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Old 9th February 2019, 05:18 PM   #45
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Kennedy is an ignorant moron. As a scientist, he makes a good lawyer.
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Old 9th February 2019, 05:47 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Anyone want to start a poll on how many total cases there are going to be before this is over? Maybe 1-2% of three high schools depending on when they send unvaccinated kids home?
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
So how is you prognistication doing?

1) Better than Nostradamus

2) Better than Sylvia Brown

3) On Plane X they doesn't allow alarmism.

Could you clarify what you think she said? Because there are about 700 kids in the average high school in those states. One to two percent of three high schools would be 21 to 42 cases. Cases were already in that range when she posted and are now slightly above that range. So no alarmism as far as I can tell, rather she has slightly underestimated. And you were already way wrong when you posted 1/10 of 1 percent.
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Old 9th February 2019, 06:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Could you clarify what you think she said? Because there are about 700 kids in the average high school in those states. One to two percent of three high schools would be 21 to 42 cases. Cases were already in that range when she posted and are now slightly above that range. So no alarmism as far as I can tell. And you were already way wrong when you posted 1/10 of 1 percent.
Thanks RY. He's playing gotcha with a loose comment I made about guessing the total number of cases.

Expect Casebro to point out that not all those cases are kids in schools. But actually, the majority of cases are in unvaccinated kids 10 and under so a fair proportion of those cases are students but not in high schools.

The outbreak is not over. We're all snowed in in this state, lots of schools were closed but mostly some parents are not going to be taking their sick kids to the doctors'.

Not to mention a dozen cases are pending labs to be called "confirmed" and labs don't operate during emergency snow conditions. Plus they are usually closed on the weekend. So we're going to get another batch of cases called in the next week.

I'm not too concerned with the gotcha but I do appreciate you chiming in.
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:31 AM   #48
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It doesn't help the young children, but there's apparently a growing trend of the teenage children of anti-vaxxer parents secretly having themselves vaccinated as soon as they can have it done without parental consent.

"What's that on your arm? Is that an injection mark?"
"Don't worry. It's ... ummm ... I decided to try heroin."
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Old 12th February 2019, 09:02 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
It doesn't help the young children, but there's apparently a growing trend of the teenage children of anti-vaxxer parents secretly having themselves vaccinated as soon as they can have it done without parental consent.

"What's that on your arm? Is that an injection mark?"
"Don't worry. It's ... ummm ... I decided to try heroin."
Mmmmmm...

Organic and gluten-free heroin
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Old 12th February 2019, 10:05 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
It doesn't help the young children, but there's apparently a growing trend of the teenage children of anti-vaxxer parents secretly having themselves vaccinated as soon as they can have it done without parental consent.

"What's that on your arm? Is that an injection mark?"
"Don't worry. It's ... ummm ... I decided to try heroin."
Evidence?

You can't get an MMR without parental consent until you are 18 in WA State. In what state/country is this occurring in?

You can get treatment for an STD, birth control, and pregnancy care at the age of 14 without a parent. Maybe the HPV vaccine falls into this category, I don't know, it would likely need specific legislation.
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Old 12th February 2019, 10:55 AM   #51
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I only wanted to add my perspective, which is that although I've had the MMR series multiple times growing up as recommended(1) I lost that immunity due to some recent medical procedures and (2) being currently modestly immunosuppressed I can not be re-immunized with this attenuated vaccine for another year. So a measles outbreak captures my attention big time. Measles could kill me and other avoiding public exposure to likely risk groups (and I am surrounded by elementary school teachers in my personal life) there is little I can do about it.

I am not pleased that some idiots depend on a long disproven lie invented by (IMO) a scam artist and left their own children, other people's babies, and me, unprotected.
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Old 12th February 2019, 11:19 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Evidence?

You can't get an MMR without parental consent until you are 18 in WA State. In what state/country is this occurring in?
Teens. 18 and 19 year-olds are still teens.

I don't know if it is common enough to be thought of as a trend, but it does happen:

Anti-vaxxer kids are rebelling against their parents by vaccinating themselves
Quote:
At least three teenagers raised by parents who are against vaccinations have asked Reddit for help in getting themselves immunized, the Washington Post reports, after doing their own vaccination research online has led them to worry about their health.
One of them is less than secretive about it and has been the subject of a number of articles:
Teen has vaccinations after asking Reddit
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Old 12th February 2019, 03:26 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Teens. 18 and 19 year-olds are still teens.

I don't know if it is common enough to be thought of as a trend, but it does happen:

Anti-vaxxer kids are rebelling against their parents by vaccinating themselves


One of them is less than secretive about it and has been the subject of a number of articles:
Teen has vaccinations after asking Reddit
It's a tad misleading saying teens are getting their own vaccines when it turns out you mean when they become adults.

That article implies kids might be giving their own vaccinations. That's just as dangerous as their antivaxxer parents given vaccines need to be refrigerated and if spoiled, you wouldn't know it. Then there is the issue they have different routes, IM, sub-q, and in a few cases intradermal. It's not something easy to master in a few minutes.

From your second link:
Quote:
He learned he had to wait until he was 18 - which he did,
The count in Clark County was up to 58 this morning if the news was right and is expected to increase when some weekly report comes out.
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Old 12th February 2019, 05:38 PM   #54
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Kid whose story went viral (the above news story) was on the news. His mother was "shocked" shocked I tell you.

Good for him, he has a brain in spite of his mother. Father was not mentioned.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:07 PM   #55
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When Teen Secretly Gets Shots, Anti-Vaxx Parents Call It a ‘Slap in the Face’
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Old 15th February 2019, 03:45 PM   #56
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Amid measles outbreaks, Facebook considering how to reduce spread of anti-vaccine content (CNN, Feb. 15, 2019)
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Old 15th February 2019, 04:15 PM   #57
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"My ex lied about vaccinating our immune-compromised 8 year old daughter. She now has chickenpox and is in the hospital."

As an added bonus, the ex forged records and exposed an entire school full of immune-compromised kids by doing so. It's just impossibly awful.
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Old 15th February 2019, 05:10 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
"My ex lied about vaccinating our immune-compromised 8 year old daughter. She now has chickenpox and is in the hospital."

As an added bonus, the ex forged records and exposed an entire school full of immune-compromised kids by doing so. It's just impossibly awful.
Agreed.

At that point, it's - as mentioned in the reddit thread - probably actionable legally at some level. Definitely fraud and wilful neglect; in Canada that'd get the Child Services involved and the daughter taken from the mother.
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Old 15th February 2019, 05:49 PM   #59
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Why the heck is he asking Reddit, for cryin' out loud? They have lawyers for that stuff.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:02 PM   #60
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Probably just needed some encouragement to take that step. People are funny that way. Me, I'd have spent the Reddit time phoning around looking for the best lawyer for the case.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:03 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Why the heck is he asking Reddit, for cryin' out loud? They have lawyers for that stuff.
Probably for the same reason you're asking us, instead of going to reddit and asking him.
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:23 PM   #62
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Admittedly I only skimmed, but the whole thing smacked of a drive by.
I didn’t see the OP continuing to participate in the thread.
I chalked it up as - “cool story bro”.
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Old 15th February 2019, 08:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Admittedly I only skimmed, but the whole thing smacked of a drive by.
I didn’t see the OP continuing to participate in the thread.
I chalked it up as - “cool story bro”.
Did you not notice the thread was locked?

"Too many inappropriate comments", I can imagine.
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Old 15th February 2019, 08:48 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Did you not notice the thread was locked?

"Too many inappropriate comments", I can imagine.
certainly none from the OP
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Old 15th February 2019, 09:51 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
certainly none from the OP
Regardless, you can't accuse him of a drive by. Fake story"? Who knows, but that's not fair to call it a drive by when you have no other evidence.
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Old 15th February 2019, 11:57 PM   #66
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It has spread to the other Vancouver. Eight cases at three French grade schools.
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Old 16th February 2019, 04:19 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Regardless, you can't accuse him of a drive by. Fake story"? Who knows, but that's not fair to call it a drive by when you have no other evidence.
A Reddit age of 1 day and that is that users only post?
Evidence enough to be sceptical.
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Old 16th February 2019, 06:00 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
A Reddit age of 1 day and that is that users only post?
Evidence enough to be sceptical.
Not only. There is also this from the OP
"How do I approach this to make sure my ex suffers for this."

That's not a credible response. Rather is a question like how do I get full custody and make sure she never harms my child ever again?...worry about revenge later.
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Old 16th February 2019, 11:30 PM   #69
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You know, with his kid in the hospital, he may have other things to do besides updating a locked thread.
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Old 17th February 2019, 11:01 PM   #70
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Latest count: 62 in WA State.

The total in Washington state is now 62 - 61 in Clark County and one in King County.

That's not including the cases in OR just across the Columbia River from Clark County.

Canadian Broadcasting News: The cases in BC Canada is up to 9. It was brought in from a trip to Vietnam by an unvaccinated child. Parents said they were afraid of the MMR vaccine 9 years ago and their kids have had all their other vaccines. Another Wakefield victim.
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Old 17th February 2019, 11:22 PM   #71
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This is sucky: Newsweek: RUSSIAN TROLLS PROMOTED ANTI-VACCINATION PROPAGANDA THAT MAY HAVE CAUSED MEASLES OUTBREAK, RESEARCHER CLAIMS
Quote:
Russian propaganda may be responsible for the persistence of measles as conspiracy theories about vaccinations spread across the Internet, according to researchers.

The same Russian trolls who attempted to provoke racial tensions and influence the outcome of the 2016 presidential election were also responsible for spreading propaganda against vaccinations. Their efforts may have helped cause the measles outbreak that infected tens of thousands and killed dozens in Europe last year, researchers told Radio Free Europe.

A 2018 report by the American Public Health Association, titled "Weaponized Health Communication: Twitter Bots and Russian Trolls Amplify the Vaccine Debate," came to a similar conclusion.

“Whereas bots that spread malware and unsolicited content disseminated antivaccine messages, Russian trolls promoted discord. Accounts masquerading as legitimate users create false equivalency, eroding public consensus on vaccination,” the report said.

“Health-related misconceptions, misinformation, and disinformation spread over social media, posing a threat to public health. Despite significant potential to enable dissemination of factual information, social media are frequently abused to spread harmful health content, including unverified and erroneous information about vaccines,” it continued. “This potentially reduces vaccine uptake rates and increases the risks of global pandemics, especially among the most vulnerable.”
There's more on the link.

We are so ******* susceptible to this fear mongering because the US (and the UK?) have such a large population who lack critical thinking skills.


From ProMed:
Quote:
See David A. Broniatowski et al. "Weaponized Health Communication: Twitter Bots and Russian Trolls Amplify the Vaccine Debate", Am J Public Health 108 (10) (1 Oct 2018): 1378-1384. DOI: 10.2105/AJPH.2018.304567.
Abstract:
Quote:
"Objectives. To understand how Twitter bots and trolls ("bots") promote online health content.

Methods. We compared bots' to average users' rates of vaccine-relevant messages, which we collected online from July 2014 through September 2017. We estimated the likelihood that users were bots, comparing proportions of polarized and antivaccine tweets across user types. We conducted a content analysis of a Twitter hashtag associated with Russian troll activity.

Results. Compared with average users, Russian trolls (x2(1) = 102.0; P under .001), sophisticated bots (x2(1) = 28.6; P under .001), and "content polluters" (x2(1) = 7.0; P under .001) tweeted about vaccination at higher rates. Whereas content polluters posted more antivaccine content (x2(1) = 11.18; P under .001), Russian trolls amplified both sides. Unidentifiable accounts were more polarized (x2(1) = 12.1; P under .001) and antivaccine (x2(1) = 35.9; P under .001). Analysis of the Russian troll hashtag showed that its messages were more political and divisive.

Conclusions. Whereas bots that spread malware and unsolicited content disseminated antivaccine messages, Russian trolls promoted discord. Accounts masquerading as legitimate users create false equivalency, eroding public consensus on vaccination.

Public Health Implications. Directly confronting vaccine skeptics enables bots to legitimize the vaccine debate. More research is needed to determine how best to combat bot-driven content." - Mod.LK]
Oh crap, then there is this:
Quote:
The Daily Beast [abridged, edited]
https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-v...tricken-states

Facebook's advertising platform is being used to widely circulate anti-vaccine conspiracy theories and misinformation as the nation is attempting to control the resurgence of childhood illnesses that can easily be prevented through vaccinations.

PAY DIRT compiled data on 7 Facebook pages now running promoted anti-vaccine posts in the United States. Together, they have bought 147 ads on the platform, ads that have been viewed between 1.6 million and 5.2 million times. They overwhelmingly target women over the age of 25 -- about 72 percent of the people who viewed them were in that demographic -- the group most likely to include mothers of children who might need to be vaccinated.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:51 PM   #72
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And yet another serious consequence of ignorant anti-vaxxers: Daycare staffer's rare, potentially deadly infection prompts request that parents keep non-vaccinated children at home
Quote:
Hib vaccinations in infants have made contracting epiglottitis rare but the daycare worker who contracted the infection was vaccinated, according to the letter.
Vaccinated as kids the vaccine prevents H-flu meningitis. The rate of that disease dropped precipitously when the vaccine was introduced.

But H-flu is still dangerous to adults, especially the elderly. In this case unvaccinated children put daycare staff at risk.

So we can choose not to vaccinate anyone and let young kids die of H-flu meningitis, or vaccinate all kids and expect the next generation not to expose adults whose vaccine antibodies wane.

It's possible daycare workers and pediatric healthcare staff may be recommended to get an HIB booster in the future.

The pathogen is H-flu, the vaccine is HIB vaccine for Haemophilus influenzae type b bacteria (unrelated to viral influenza).
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Old 27th February 2019, 07:05 AM   #73
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There's also an outbreak in Texas, but state representative Bill Zedler isn't worried, because they have antibiotics.

Quote:
Texas state representative Bill Zedler says a resurgence of measles across the U.S. isn't worrying him.

Zedler, R-Arlington, is promoting legislation that would allow Texans to opt out of childhood vaccinations.

“They want to say people are dying of measles. Yeah, in third-world countries they’re dying of measles,” Zedler said, the Texas Observer reports. “Today, with antibiotics and that kind of stuff, they’re not dying in America.”
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Old 28th February 2019, 06:52 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Thanks RY. He's playing gotcha with a loose comment I made about guessing the total number of cases.

Expect Casebro to point out that not all those cases are kids in schools. But actually, the majority of cases are in unvaccinated kids 10 and under so a fair proportion of those cases are students but not in high schools.

The outbreak is not over. We're all snowed in in this state, lots of schools were closed but mostly some parents are not going to be taking their sick kids to the doctors'.

Not to mention a dozen cases are pending labs to be called "confirmed" and labs don't operate during emergency snow conditions. Plus they are usually closed on the weekend. So we're going to get another batch of cases called in the next week.

I'm not too concerned with the gotcha but I do appreciate you chiming in.
You brought stats into this thread. Am I wrong to ask for an update of your stats?

Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12


Call me a troll if you want, but I think your alarmism can use some balance.
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Old 28th February 2019, 07:18 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
You brought stats into this thread. Am I wrong to ask for an update of your stats?

Quote:

Call me a troll if you want, but I think your alarmism can use some balance.
You seem to have left the thread long enough for my post to you about questioning her stats to have been buried. Let me repeat, what do you think is wrong with her stats? Her stats were in the right ballpark even when she first made her "prediction". There was no alarmism in her stats. Her stats were and are quite reasonable as far as I can tell.
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Old 28th February 2019, 09:53 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Mmmmmm...

Organic and gluten-free heroin
I'm pretty sure heroin is always gluten-free, unless drug dealers have taken to cutting it with flour.
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Old 28th February 2019, 10:21 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
You seem to have left the thread long enough for my post to you about questioning her stats to have been buried. Let me repeat, what do you think is wrong with her stats? Her stats were in the right ballpark even when she first made her "prediction". There was no alarmism in her stats. Her stats were and are quite reasonable as far as I can tell.
Those stats were an alarmist wild ass guess. I recall them as "1-5% of high school students will get measles". Stats since then have not assessed high school students at all. Goal posts have been moved.

I believe in vax. I don't believe in alarmism. Here at a skeptic site, I am the only poster in this thread with an alternate opinion. Call me a troll and flame away, but a little bit of discussion is always warranted.

Perhaps health control efforts would be better spent on getting Viet Nam to increase it's vaccination rate to the deplorably low 90% mentioned in a sub group up thread?
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Old 28th February 2019, 11:57 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Those stats were an alarmist wild ass guess.
No they weren't, they were already in the right ballpark.
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I recall them as "1-5% of high school students will get measles".
Then you recall wrong.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 09:25 AM   #79
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We seem to have been seeing a lot of doctors lately. The hospital and clinic have signs on the door saying "If you have (measles symptoms), don't enter the building." They are very concerned.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 11:26 AM   #80
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Cases are up to 68 in Clark County. And there's a new case in Oregon for a total of 4. The new case wasn't exposed to the outbreak cases. Like the cases in Vancouver BC, the source is unrelated.
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