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Tags English Defence League , Stephen Yaxley-Lennon , Tommy Robinson , UK incidents , UK issues

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Old 27th May 2018, 02:46 AM   #1
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What has happened to the UK

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05...ing-trial.html
Quote:
U.K. right-wing activist and journalist Tommy Robinson was arrested and reportedly jailed Friday after he filmed members of an alleged child grooming gang entering a court for trial -- but the details of his purported sentence remain murky after the judge ordered the press not to report on the case.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:18 AM   #2
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Yes, the rise of the far right is concerning.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:30 AM   #3
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He was arrested for breach of the peace and incitement. I suppose we'll have to wait for more information before reaching a conclusion. But saying that, Tommy Robinson is a violent scumbag who belongs behind bars
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:38 AM   #4
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He was also breaking the conditions of his suspended sentence from the last time he did it.
That is contempt of court.

Police and Judges take it very seriously when you ignore the conditions of your sentence.
He was taken back before the judge and put in to custody.

When he comes out he will be on license and if he does it again before the license expires he will be whisked back inside again.

He is doing it to get arrested, he makes sure his cronies are there to video it all and make a fuss. 'Help I'm being repressed' He is a Nazi **** stirrer.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:43 AM   #5
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For anyone not in the UK who doesn't know who Tommy Robinson is-:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomm...son_(activist)

Quote:
Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982[3]), known by the pseudonym Tommy Robinson and previously Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris,[4] is a far right activist[5][6][7][8][9] who co-founded and served as spokesman and leader of the English Defence League (EDL),[10] from which he resigned in 2013.

He also founded the European Defence League, and for a short time in 2012 was joint party vice-chairman of the British Freedom Party. He led the EDL from 2009 until 8 October 2013, when he was persuaded to leave the organisation and discuss alternative ways of tackling extremism with the think tank Quilliam. He continued as an activist, and in 2015 became involved with the development of Pegida UK, a British chapter of the German-based Pegida organisation.
Apparently he's back in prison for breaching the terms of a suspended sentence. Given that he's previously served time for offenses ranging from common assault, to mortgage fraud, to entering the US illegally I'm sure he'll survive this one too.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:49 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by logger View Post

Quote:
U.K. right-wing activist and journalist Tommy Robinson was arrested and reportedly jailed Friday after he filmed members of an alleged child grooming gang entering a court for trial -- but the details of his purported sentence remain murky after the judge ordered the press not to report on the case.

(My italics.) That's known as a super-injunction. As much as I loathe the press, well... what has happened to Australia? "So, if the next Media Watch is broadcast from jail, you’ll know why."
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:54 AM   #7
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I’m fascinated that taking pictures is breaching the peace.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:21 AM   #8
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:24 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I’m fascinated that taking pictures is breaching the peace.
Just not fascinated enough to do a bit of research and explain why.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I’m fascinated that taking pictures is breaching the peace.

I find it disturbing that a judge can dictate what news the press can and cannot report in Great Britain.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by dellarte View Post
[/url]



(My italics.) That's known as a super-injunction. As much as I loathe the press, well... what has happened to Australia? "So, if the next Media Watch is broadcast from jail, you’ll know why."
No, it's not an injunction, it is a direction from the judge. There is a difference.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I find it disturbing that a judge can dictate what news the press can and cannot report in Great Britain.
A Judge can order that certain aspects of a case or certain proceedings are not reported.

Restrictions are usually lifted after a case is complete.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:44 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I’m fascinated that taking pictures is breaching the peace.
Not in and of itself but then, you haven't bothered to find out what the original conviction was for or what restrictions were placed on him as conditions of his licence.
After breaching them he was arrested and the judge invoked the custodial option of his sentence and sent him to jail.

They got him two ways. One for breaching his sentence and the other for contempt of court.

His supporters are saying he should have had a trial and it's a stitch up. They forget that he already had the trial and was sentenced.
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I find it disturbing that a judge can dictate what news the press can and cannot report in Great Britain.
Do you not have laws in your country that protect the identities of, for example, rape victims, or underage victims of crime?
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Old 27th May 2018, 06:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I’m fascinated that taking pictures is breaching the peace.
I'm fascinated that despite the previous posts having made clear that this is NOT why he's behind bars, you continue to push the lie that suits your purpose. Of course, this is common behavior for you.
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Old 27th May 2018, 06:59 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Do you not have laws in your country that protect the identities of, for example, rape victims, or underage victims of crime?
I don't think it extends beyond the government. The court can't disclose it, bit a reporter who figures it out can disclose.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:14 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Do you not have laws in your country that protect the identities of, for example, rape victims, or underage victims of crime?
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't think it extends beyond the government. The court can't disclose it, bit a reporter who figures it out can disclose.

That's my understanding, at least in America. Courts and police may have very strict policies on protecting the identities of certain victims/defendants. All journalists have are their particular ethics. Most reputable agencies won't report on the identity of an underage defendant unless, like in a school shooting, it's already widely known.

But it is really not that hard to figure out based on what is publicly available. My favorite was the widely reported divorce case Anonymous v. Anonymous where the main issue was valuation of the celebrity status of the Mayor of New York City and a soap opera actress.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A Judge can order that certain aspects of a case or certain proceedings are not reported.

Restrictions are usually lifted after a case is complete.
It is common in the US for judges to issue gag orders during trials. The only difference here is extending it out to the courthouse entrance.

Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Do you not have laws in your country that protect the identities of, for example, rape victims, or underage victims of crime?
That too, though I believe Loss Leader is right, it's a press norm, not a law. But judges can order identities protected: witnesses, minors, victims.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 27th May 2018 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:46 AM   #19
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In the UK, the press cannot breach the anonymity of rape victims or child victims of sexual abuse, though adult victims can choose to waive their own anonymity. Nor can they disclose details which could lead to identification, such as filming and naming defendants and witnesses outside a court where the defendants are related to victims, or the witnesses are victims.

That's what Robinson/Yaxley/Lennon/Harris was doing, and by doing so was breaching the terms of his suspended sentence for doing much the same thing. He was also commenting and speculating on matters which are sub judice. It's contempt of court, which is always seen as a serious matter.

In both cases there was a real risk that Robinson's actions could have caused the trials to collapse and the guilty/allegedly guilty defendants to go free. For a man who is certainly in agreement that the Muslim grooming gang in the first trial should be jailed, his actions which could have led to them being freed to commit more offences strike me as bizarre.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
In the UK, the press cannot breach the anonymity of rape victims or child victims of sexual abuse, though adult victims can choose to waive their own anonymity. Nor can they disclose details which could lead to identification, such as filming and naming defendants and witnesses outside a court where the defendants are related to victims, or the witnesses are victims.

That's what Robinson/Yaxley/Lennon/Harris was doing, and by doing so was breaching the terms of his suspended sentence for doing much the same thing. He was also commenting and speculating on matters which are sub judice. It's contempt of court, which is always seen as a serious matter.

In both cases there was a real risk that Robinson's actions could have caused the trials to collapse and the guilty/allegedly guilty defendants to go free. For a man who is certainly in agreement that the Muslim grooming gang in the first trial should be jailed, his actions which could have led to them being freed to commit more offences strike me as bizarre.
Wow, the UK is an awful country.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:51 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't think it extends beyond the government. The court can't disclose it, bit a reporter who figures it out can disclose.
Not in the UK. You are liable to prosecution if you divulge the identity of victims in rape and sexual assault trials and also if the victim is a minor.
Also if the defendant is a minor their identity is protected unless restrictions are lifted by the Judge which has happened on a few rare occasions.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:54 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I find it disturbing that a judge can dictate what news the press can and cannot report in Great Britain.
Civilised countries still value the concept of fair trials.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Not in the UK. You are liable to prosecution if you divulge the identity of victims in rape and sexual assault trials and also if the victim is a minor.
Also if the defendant is a minor their identity is protected unless restrictions are lifted by the Judge which has happened on a few rare occasions.
Which is why I was replying to a question specific about the US.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Wow, the UK is an awful country.
In what sense?

For having grooming gangs (Muslims or not) intent on committing paedophilia? Sadly common in many countries.

For prosecuting those gangs in a series of semi-linked cases? I would have thought it was the mark of a civilised country to do so.

For giving victims of sexual crimes the right to anonymity and taking action against those like Robinson who would seek to break that anonymity? I cannot fathom why this is seen as awful.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:57 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
He was arrested for breach of the peace and incitement. I suppose we'll have to wait for more information before reaching a conclusion. But saying that, Tommy Robinson is a violent scumbag who belongs behind bars
Or, better, scavaged.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:58 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
In what sense?

For having grooming gangs (Muslims or not) intent on committing paedophilia? Sadly common in many countries.

For prosecuting those gangs in a series of semi-linked cases? I would have thought it was the mark of a civilised country to do so.

For giving victims of sexual crimes the right to anonymity and taking action against those like Robinson who would seek to break that anonymity? I cannot fathom why this is seen as awful.
Always consider the source in these matters.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:58 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post

For giving victims of sexual crimes the right to anonymity and taking action against those like Robinson who would seek to break that anonymity? I cannot fathom why this is seen as awful.
That one. That is the awful part.
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:02 AM   #28
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I do not know why, but I always have much trouble following BtC's comments - very hard to read them - close to impossible. Might need better glasses...........................
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:05 AM   #29
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At the risk of derailing the thread, what public interest is there in knowing that (say) a particular eight year old girl was raped, as opposed to her having anonymity which she can choose to break if she wants to? How does having her name, age, address and school bandied about in the press help the child recover from that ordeal, or help her to live as normal a life as she can?

What sort of prurient person needs to know the name of a child victim of sexual abuse anyway? Isn't it enough that to know their age and gender?

The UK protects victims of crime. That's not awful, it's civilised.
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:07 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
He was also breaking the conditions of his suspended sentence from the last time he did it.
That is contempt of court.

Police and Judges take it very seriously when you ignore the conditions of your sentence.
He was taken back before the judge and put in to custody.

When he comes out he will be on license and if he does it again before the license expires he will be whisked back inside again.

He is doing it to get arrested, he makes sure his cronies are there to video it all and make a fuss. 'Help I'm being repressed' He is a Nazi **** stirrer.
I believe you misspelled the struck out word - it is spelled eater......
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:07 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post

For having grooming gangs (Muslims or not) intent on committing paedophilia? Sadly common in many countries.
From Muslim-run think-tank Quilliam report:

‘84 per cent of ‘grooming gang’ offenders were (South) Asian, while they only make up seven per cent of total UK population and that the majority of these offenders are of Pakistani origin with Muslim heritage.’

Originally Posted by Agatha View Post

For giving victims of sexual crimes the right to anonymity and taking action against those like Robinson who would seek to break that anonymity? I cannot fathom why this is seen as awful.
But wasn’t he taking photos of the perpetrators, not the victims?
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:08 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
That one. That is the awful part.
Because?
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:10 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I find it disturbing that a judge can dictate what news the press can and cannot report in Great Britain.
In most countries they can. We are special - but trumpf is certainly working to change that. Like some other real presidents here did - ultimately with little success.
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:12 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I'm fascinated that despite the previous posts having made clear that this is NOT why he's behind bars, you continue to push the lie that suits your purpose. Of course, this is common behavior for you.
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:16 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
From Muslim-run think-tank Quilliam report:

‘84 per cent of ‘grooming gang’ offenders were (South) Asian, while they only make up seven per cent of total UK population and that the majority of these offenders are of Pakistani origin with Muslim heritage.’



But wasn’t he taking photos of the perpetrators, not the victims?
If pics of the offender are not allowed that either means the victim can be identified through connection with him, eg family member, or his anonymity is needed to ensure a fair trial for another defendant.

Either way, this guy was being stupid. He's either invading the privacy of a victim of child sexual abuse, or he's risking the collapse of another, similar, trial.
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:18 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Because?
It is stopping someone from speaking about something they are not a party to and merely made an observation in public. It is criminalising the most basic act of speech. It is no different than punishing people for saying, "the cat that walked by is orange."
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:19 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
At the risk of derailing the thread, what public interest is there in knowing that (say) a particular eight year old girl was raped, as opposed to her having anonymity which she can choose to break if she wants to? How does having her name, age, address and school bandied about in the press help the child recover from that ordeal, or help her to live as normal a life as she can?

What sort of prurient person needs to know the name of a child victim of sexual abuse anyway? Isn't it enough that to know their age and gender?

The UK protects victims of crime. That's not awful, it's civilised.
It is none of your business what my interest is.
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:20 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post


But wasn’t he taking photos of the perpetrators, not the victims?
Alleged perpetrators, witnesses (who may well be victims) and jurors.
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:27 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is none of your business what my interest is.
I didn't ask for your interest, I asked what the public interest is.

It is not analogous to saying "the cat that walked by is orange", it's analogous to saying "the child that walked by is a rape victim". Everyone can see a cat's colour (obviously except for blind or colour-blind people) but nobody can see the history of a child's involvement with a crime.

Try again for a better analogy, or explain why you think that victims of rape should be identified.
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:30 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
If pics of the offender are not allowed that either means the victim can be identified through connection with him, eg family member, or his anonymity is needed to ensure a fair trial for another defendant.

Either way, this guy was being stupid. He's either invading the privacy of a victim of child sexual abuse, or he's risking the collapse of another, similar, trial.
There was real concern that his behaviour and actions would lead to a mistrial.
There was even a suggestion that some of his gang were trying to directly influence the jury.
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