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5th October 2014, 09:33 AM | #161 |
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Some more information on how the Australian Taxation Office regards bitcoin:
https://www.ato.gov.au/general/gen/t...cally-bitcoin/ Basically they say that "Bitcoin is neither money nor a foreign currency" and "Transacting with bitcoins is akin to a barter arrangement, with similar tax consequences" ie that bitcoins for businesses are subject to GST (similar to VAT). |
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5th October 2014, 10:44 AM | #162 |
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Down to 297 now.
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5th October 2014, 10:45 AM | #163 |
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5th October 2014, 10:57 AM | #164 |
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5th October 2014, 11:51 AM | #165 |
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Bitcoin - Part 2
There are obviously a couple of serious proponents of BitCoin in this thread.
Perhaps it's due to my age but I can't help seeing this, yes sort-term phenomenon, for what it is. Perhaps some people are too young, or have forgotten, to know what happened in the 90's and early 00's when all the people saw the internet as being a quick way to make a buck. It was a disaster. Dot-Com.Bubble http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble BitCoin is in no way a currency, it's an ill-advised investment, designed to entice the gullible and make profit for the people at the top. It never has been, nor ever will be, a currency in the correct sense of the word in the modern world. It differs in no way to Alex Jones trying to convince his rubes that investing in Gold is prudent, (whilst he profits from his advertisers by saying so). It matters not if eBay, or whoever, "accept" them, there is no risk whatsoever to those organisations. They will receive £'s or $'s regardless. They will have legal guarantees in place to ensure that, with these third party merchant account handlers, they receive real money. For the average person on the street there are no such legal safeguards in place. Unless you want to buy something dodgy on CraigsList that is. |
5th October 2014, 12:55 PM | #166 |
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5th October 2014, 01:13 PM | #167 |
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I'm one of those. Not panicking at all, more like anticipation. But then again, my investment is around 0.2 BTC. I went in being comfortable with the possibility of losing it all, it is a high risk investment after all. Since then I had a few relatively easy and fast transactions I couldn't have otherwise done, so I'm content already. So now I'm thinking I'll probably never cash it out, just use it if I want to buy something.
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5th October 2014, 01:25 PM | #168 |
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Good to hear, Teapot, but I was looking more for expectations/statistics than individual anecdotes.
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5th October 2014, 02:52 PM | #169 |
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5th October 2014, 03:30 PM | #170 |
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Back up to 311.
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5th October 2014, 06:51 PM | #171 |
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6th October 2014, 01:16 AM | #172 |
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6th October 2014, 02:59 AM | #173 |
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And back up to 330. If it goes back to 380 by the end of the day, I'd answer your question by saying "pretty good, actually".
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6th October 2014, 05:35 AM | #174 |
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6th October 2014, 11:32 AM | #175 |
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To pick up the thread of discussion from the silver thread, my position is that silver is a better investment than BTC because silver is tangible; its value will never go to zero because there will always be some demand for silver, whether for industrial or jewelry uses. That is not to say that silver is necessarily a good investment, but it is better than BTC. There is nothing whatsoever to stop the value of BTC from going to zero if demand falls off or a competing cryptocurrency emerges. It has no intrinsic value.
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6th October 2014, 11:33 AM | #176 |
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6th October 2014, 03:40 PM | #177 |
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FWIW, my friend sold all of his bitcoin, realized a $9+ million dollar gain, 3000%+ return (before taxes). He thinks the fact that both Russia and China made it illegal, plus the marketplace stagnating are headwinds.
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6th October 2014, 05:26 PM | #178 |
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6th October 2014, 07:56 PM | #179 |
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7th October 2014, 12:16 PM | #180 |
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7th October 2014, 12:36 PM | #181 |
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The dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government, which has both taxing power and big ol' printing presses; it has the means to make good on its obligations. Bitcoin, as a wag noted in the old thread, is backed by the full faith and credit of the international drug trade. There is no taxing power behind it, and it is inherently deflationary (or it would be if people were using it to any great extent).
I'll keep my USD, thanks very much. |
7th October 2014, 12:43 PM | #182 |
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7th October 2014, 01:14 PM | #183 |
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7th October 2014, 01:56 PM | #184 |
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7th October 2014, 03:25 PM | #185 |
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In the short term definitely. Historically, no. Further the value of several currencies have fluctuated wildly over time similar to bitcoin.
jhunter tried framing bitcoin as having the fault of no intrinsic value, which is why silver is better than bitcoin. I merely pointed out that by that logic gold/silver is also better than any fiat currency because all fiat currency has no intrinsic value. Then goalposts were moved to avoid addressing that. All I want is for jhunter to admit that they moved the goalposts in order to avoid conceding the point that bitcoin having no intrinsic value is not a fault and is totally irrelevant. Then if jhunter wants to switch to discussing the role faith and acceptance plays in making a currency with no intrinsic value valuable, that's fine. |
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7th October 2014, 03:42 PM | #186 |
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7th October 2014, 05:14 PM | #187 |
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But bitcoin having no intrinsic value is a fault, and is entirely relevant. If its value goes to zero, its holders have no recourse whatsoever. In the extremely unlikely event that the USD goes to zero, I can still use those bills as toilet paper, or burn them for warmth, even leaving aside the faith and acceptance issues.
You and the other bitbugs continually try to twist my words and play silly semantic games in order to avoid discussing the serious problems with BTC, such as its 75% drop in value from the peak and the ongoing issue of theft. BTC clearly is not ready for prime time. Its flaws are not beyond repair but as presently constructed it is a poor choice both as an investment and as a "currency". |
7th October 2014, 07:27 PM | #188 |
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The USD has "intrinsic" value because you can wipe your arse with it? That's even sillier than saying that silver has "intrinsic" value because it is shiny. (As a matter of fact, most USDs aren't even printed - they are just numbers in a bank account. So you can't even do that with them).
There is no such thing as "intrinsic" value. Something is valuable only if people believe it is valuable. That something might have uses other than as a medium of exchange doesn't give it this fictitious "intrinsic value". |
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7th October 2014, 10:05 PM | #189 |
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We can dispense with this silliness right now. You and I both know the USD isn't going anywhere. It's the world's reserve currency, and it's going to stay that way. We here in the US like it that way, we intend to keep it that way, and our policymakers will do whatever is necessary to ensure that it stays that way. Now stop trying to dodge the issues of BTC's problems and meet them head-on.
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7th October 2014, 10:43 PM | #190 |
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OK, I concede the problems you have raised with Bitcoin:
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7th October 2014, 11:05 PM | #191 |
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duplicate post.
(caused by a JREF style time-out error). |
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8th October 2014, 07:01 AM | #192 |
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8th October 2014, 08:09 AM | #193 |
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There's no need. I have already discussed those issues ad-nauseum.
Isn't that why you keep making up silly stuff now? |
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8th October 2014, 08:19 AM | #194 |
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Come on, let's play nice, now. It's not as if this is a religious issue... is it ?
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8th October 2014, 08:21 AM | #195 |
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8th October 2014, 08:25 AM | #196 |
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You're not usually like this, jhunter. How is that a reasonable answer to my request for civility ?
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8th October 2014, 08:49 AM | #197 |
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Sometimes I wonder.
You could make some arguably true statements against bitcoin like:
According to some, it is a giant conspiracy concocted between the Illuminati and psychic computer programmers to fleece gullible old grandmothers out of their life savings. What we see today was all planned in minute detail years ago before the first line of code for bitcoin was ever written. Others put their Jedi mind powers to work and predict with the certainty of an angelic prophet that bitcoin will suddenly disappear without a trace (also leaving the grandmothers out of pocket). And just when you think the arguments against bitcoin couldn't get any sillier ................. AFAIK this is still a skeptics forum and I reserve the right to dismiss "out of this world" arguments entirely. |
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8th October 2014, 09:09 AM | #198 |
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8th October 2014, 09:33 AM | #199 |
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You know, you're absolutely right. I should know better, being a moderator and all. I apologize for my tone.
Quote:
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8th October 2014, 09:42 AM | #200 |
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So who is going to keep storing it if it doesn't hold a value?
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