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Old 24th May 2018, 12:36 AM   #2801
psionl0
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Bitcoin Price Faces Bear Indicator Not Seen Since 2014
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Notably, the five-month moving average (MA) has rolled over in favor of the bears and looks set to cut the 10-month MA from above - a bearish crossover that hasn't been seen since June 2014.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Isn't it amazing how many so called "critical" thinkers suddenly become chartists and believe in TA when they think that they can prove something with this woo.
Your arguments are so stale that I don't have to write anything new anymore.
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Old 24th May 2018, 03:44 AM   #2802
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Your arguments are so stale that I don't have to write anything new anymore.
But, there is a theory called Adams theory.

It's going down....

https://forums.babypips.com/t/the-ad...lder-jnr/41158

Last edited by Samson; 24th May 2018 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 24th May 2018, 11:15 AM   #2803
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Those stable hands must be cleaning up with all that inside information.

Good point. But in those 1960's in Zimbabwe they were not allowed to bet. Besides they needed to keep their jobs.

In SA I knew someone with insider horse racing knowledge. He did okay and did not attract attention. Some horses get shot for skewing the betting too much.

ETA... Down we go! (Bitcoin)
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Old 24th May 2018, 03:36 PM   #2804
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From Bloomberg: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

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The investigation is focused on illegal practices that can influence prices -- such as spoofing, or flooding the market with fake orders to trick other traders into buying or selling, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the review is private. Federal prosecutors are working with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, a financial regulator that oversees derivatives tied to Bitcoin, the people said.
I will be curious to see what, if anything, comes of this.
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Old 24th May 2018, 10:30 PM   #2805
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Good point. But in those 1960's in Zimbabwe they were not allowed to bet. Besides they needed to keep their jobs.
A tall 13 year old managed to bet at will, but the stable hands feeding him the inside info couldn't find a way to get their money down?
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Old 25th May 2018, 09:59 PM   #2806
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Your arguments are so stale that I don't have to write anything new anymore.
Would you consider yourself here a defender of bitcoin only? Does it include all cryptocurrency? A small basket?
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Old 26th May 2018, 12:10 AM   #2807
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Would you consider yourself here a defender of bitcoin only? Does it include all cryptocurrency? A small basket?
I have seen it argued only Bitcoin will survive. I see this as a necessary argument to make. We should think of the three natural number categories, 0,1, or many.
I will accordingly sell my vast holdings in Ethereum and Ripple immediately.

Last edited by Samson; 26th May 2018 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 26th May 2018, 01:04 AM   #2808
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I will be curious to see what, if anything, comes of this.
Nothing will come of it, because...

Bitcoin Price Drop From $20,000 Likely Due to Market Manipulation:
Quote:
The group of traders claimed that through the futures market, institutional investors and large-scale retail traders manipulated the market to cash out short contracts by purchasing and selling massive amounts of bitcoin in a correlated manner....

It is entirely possible that the premise established by the group of cryptocurrency traders is correct and that large-scale investors have in fact manipulated the cryptocurrency market. But, if it has been the futures market that affected the price of bitcoin over the past five months, it is completely legal to do so and it remains unclear whether similar manipulation strategies can be prevented in the long-term.
When 'purchasing and selling' is 'market manipulation' the fundamental principles of the Free Market are in question. Should people not be permitted to buy and sell whenever and however much they want, for whatever price is mutually agreed? This is more than just a few disgruntled bitcoiners upset at not getting their expected return, it's actually an attack on freedom, democracy, and even Capitalism itself.

Bitcoin was invented so people could trade freely without being limited by corrupt banking practices and unnecessary regulation. It cannot be manipulated by 'flooding the market with fake orders to trick other traders into buying or selling' because every transaction is recorded in the Blockchain for all to see. No matter how much the price varies or what the cause, nobody can complain that they didn't have access to accurate information.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be investigated. If the price crashes that's just market forces in action, and anybody who can't stand the heat should get out of the kitchen.
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Last edited by Roger Ramjets; 26th May 2018 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 26th May 2018, 02:00 AM   #2809
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Nothing will come of it, because...

Bitcoin Price Drop From $20,000 Likely Due to Market Manipulation:

When 'purchasing and selling' is 'market manipulation' the fundamental principles of the Free Market are in question. Should people not be permitted to buy and sell whenever and however much they want, for whatever price is mutually agreed? This is more than just a few disgruntled bitcoiners upset at not getting their expected return, it's actually an attack on freedom, democracy, and even Capitalism itself.

Bitcoin was invented so people could trade freely without being limited by corrupt banking practices and unnecessary regulation. It cannot be manipulated by 'flooding the market with fake orders to trick other traders into buying or selling' because every transaction is recorded in the Blockchain for all to see. No matter how much the price varies or what the cause, nobody can complain that they didn't have access to accurate information.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be investigated. If the price crashes that's just market forces in action, and anybody who can't stand the heat should get out of the kitchen.
Yes indeed, well argued Roger.
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Old 26th May 2018, 03:41 AM   #2810
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Would you consider yourself here a defender of bitcoin only?
You still don't get it. I am not defending bitcoin. I am merely pointing out how ridiculous the arguments against it are.

Bitcoin may well crash and burn (or do any number of other things) but it won't be because technical analysis or crystal ball gazing or any other form of woo has suddenly become a valid tool.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Does it include all cryptocurrency? A small basket?
I would say (yet again) that most cryptocurrencies will not amount to anything. Only a handful will and for how long is anybody's guess.
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Old 26th May 2018, 04:35 AM   #2811
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Question

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You still don't get it. I am not defending bitcoin. I am merely pointing out how ridiculous the arguments against it are.

Bitcoin may well crash and burn (or do any number of other things) but it won't be because technical analysis or crystal ball gazing or any other form of woo has suddenly become a valid tool.


I would say (yet again) that most cryptocurrencies will not amount to anything. Only a handful will and for how long is anybody's guess.
I get it. My line was teasing.
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Old 26th May 2018, 12:00 PM   #2812
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
It cannot be manipulated by 'flooding the market with fake orders to trick other traders into buying or selling' because every transaction is recorded in the Blockchain for all to see. No matter how much the price varies or what the cause, nobody can complain that they didn't have access to accurate information.
Just in case someone might take this seriously, I want to point out that the block chain records the fact of bitcoins moving between anonymous accounts, but does not record what if anything was traded for those bitcoins. And of course exchange orders are not transactions.
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Old 26th May 2018, 03:28 PM   #2813
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You still don't get it. I am not defending bitcoin. I am merely pointing out how ridiculous the arguments against it are.

Bitcoin may well crash and burn (or do any number of other things) but it won't be because technical analysis or crystal ball gazing or any other form of woo has suddenly become a valid tool.


I would say (yet again) that most cryptocurrencies will not amount to anything. Only a handful will and for how long is anybody's guess.
Fundamentals drive any market eventually, it can be likened to stretching and twisting a rubber band, but place it back at rest and it has the original shape. TA can only interpret the stretching and twisting, never the fair value of the entity.
For example gold rallied last week after the toys were getting tossed, but the 4 hour algo predicted the rally.
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Old 26th May 2018, 03:39 PM   #2814
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TA suggests to me we are about to have the long awaited collapse, the set up looks dire.

7335 when posted

Last edited by Samson; 26th May 2018 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 27th May 2018, 12:07 AM   #2815
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Oh well, my strategy of buying the dips may not work anymore. I will not be buying the bottom - namely zero. Then it is game over.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:09 AM   #2816
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Oh well, my strategy of buying the dips may not work anymore. I will not be buying the bottom - namely zero. Then it is game over.
I'm sure psion is buying the dips.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:40 PM   #2817
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Price Will Catch Up to Bitcoin’s Record Hashrate By Q3: Analyst
Quote:
Despite the steady decline in Bitcoin prices, the network hashrate continues to increase astronomically. Why are miners contributing more computing power to mine a cryptocurrency that has struggled over the past five months?

From an economic perspective, it makes no sense for miners to spend more money mining Bitcoins when the price continues to struggle... Aslam believes, it is proof that miners have full confidence in the crypto. Thus, they are willing to ignore the market indices...

According to Aslam, bitcoin price will soon begin to reflect network growth. He predicts a convergence between fundamentals and market indices by the third quarter of 2018. If that is the case, then the number one crypto could be set for another moonshot.
Ignore the bears, buy Bitcoin NOW!!!
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Old 7th June 2018, 08:15 PM   #2818
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HODL those bitcoins!

Bitcoin price forecast to double as experts revise cryptocurrency predictions
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Bitcoin will double in value by the end of the year despite its recent price stagnation, according to several cryptocurrency experts...

In January, a panel of cryptocurrency experts compiled by price comparison site Finder forecast that bitcoin would hit $33,000 by the end of this year. A new prediction released this week revised that figure to less than half that initial outlook at just $14,638.

Despite being more modest, if it is realised it would still represent almost a 100 per cent gain on bitcoin's current price.
200%, 100%, 50%, who cares? So long as the percentage is positive it's all good, and even if not:- HODL!
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Old 8th June 2018, 05:55 PM   #2819
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Research: Only 10% of Bitcoin Cash (BCH) is used for transactions
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When Bitcoin Cash (BCH) – a hard fork of the world’s apex cryptocurrency Bitcoin (BTC) – first took off last August, it promised to solve BTC’s soaring transaction fees and make cryptocurrencies a viable option for everyday transfers once more. But it appears hardly anyone is using it for its so-intended purpose.

A new study by blockchain intelligence firm Chainanalysis suggests that most cryptocurrency enthusiasts still use BCH for investment purposes a lot more regularly than for transactions. Indeed, the amount of BCH held in wallets is 10 times higher than the amount of BCH used in transactions...

Since December 2017, a large number of investors have sold their Bitcoin in the market, leading to its increased use for transactions. For Bitcoin Cash, it seems to be the other way around. While up to 15 percent of BCH was with exchanges and other liquidity services in November 2017, it now seems to have moved on to large investors who are holding on to it.
Bitcoin Cash is still being promoted as "fulfilling the original promise of Bitcoin as Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash" but so far it has failed to deliver on that promise. Why not? Is it because Bitcoin gets all the publicity, or because its lower price makes it less attractive to speculators, or simply that it is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist?

Either way one fact is obvious - neither Bitcoin nor its 'improved' replacement are being widely adopted for its original stated purpose as a 'Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System'. Which leaves only one question remaining - what is it good for? Its volatility makes it a poor 'store of value' (whatever that means) and it has just about run its course as a Ponzi scheme. What will happen when 'investors' finally see it for what it is and lose interest? Will it crash to its true value (0), or will a hard core of HODLers manage to keep the price up forever? More importantly, will we ever get to see John McAffee eat his **** on national television?
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Old 8th June 2018, 07:33 PM   #2820
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
. . . . . it has just about run its course as a Ponzi scheme. . . . .
Did you really think that you could sneak that thoroughly and totally discredited argument in as if it were an established fact?
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Old 8th June 2018, 10:37 PM   #2821
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Did you really think that you could sneak that thoroughly and totally discredited argument in as if it were an established fact?
What level of proof would be appropriate?
There is no barrier to entry to running a ponzi scheme, nor to launching a crypto currency.
This is the essential argument that will be trotted out when they all crash to curiosity value like the pet rocks I recall.
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Old 8th June 2018, 10:43 PM   #2822
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
There is no barrier to entry to running a ponzi scheme, nor to launching a crypto currency.
That is what you call an "appropriate" level of proof?

Wake up! The two things are chalk and cheese and there are thousands of posts in this thread that explain why.
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Old 8th June 2018, 11:02 PM   #2823
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That is what you call an "appropriate" level of proof?

Wake up! The two things are chalk and cheese and there are thousands of posts in this thread that explain why.
I realised we had a problem when Globex and CME launched derivatives, and they seemed legitimised, so far you are winning the debate, I like to be fair.
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Old 8th June 2018, 11:20 PM   #2824
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Many types of derivatives may well be described as Ponzi schemes. Banks could also be said (with a bit of licence) to be running Ponzi schemes since they rely on others making deposits (or loan payments) to fund withdrawals.

But I have never heard of buying something in the hope of flipping it for a profit being described as a Ponzi scheme. That would make all the supermarkets in the world Ponzi schemers.
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Old 8th June 2018, 11:37 PM   #2825
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I think that is a false analogy. Roger was saying what may be true, history will call cryptos ponzi schemes. I see this as a legitimate forecast.
Will Warren Buffet or Charlie Munger disagree with Roger?
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Old 8th June 2018, 11:56 PM   #2826
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I think that is a false analogy. Roger was saying what may be true, history will call cryptos ponzi schemes.
What analogy? And why would history say something as stupid as that?
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Old 9th June 2018, 12:26 AM   #2827
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I think that is a false analogy. Roger was saying what may be true, history will call cryptos ponzi schemes. I see this as a legitimate forecast.
I don't see that. Ponzi schemes provide an income for the holder of the asset. The income is not derived, as the investor supposes, from earnings of the asset, but from investments by later victims. However there is an income. Bitcoin produces no income of any kind. It is therefore not a Ponzi scheme. It is a speculative bubble.

The bubble Burst in December, and since then prices have remained in a range up to about half the December peak.

By post bubble standards it's doing quite well, but the heady "days of wine and tulips" have gone - at least for now. And I think for ever.
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Old 9th June 2018, 12:52 AM   #2828
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Bitcoin produces no income of any kind. It is therefore not a Ponzi scheme. It is a speculative bubble.
That is a fairer assessment of bitcoin.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
By post bubble standards it's doing quite well, but the heady "days of wine and tulips" have gone - at least for now. And I think for ever.
That is a bit premature. Bitcoin has not had a good month with the gains of the previous month all but reversed. However, the story is far from over.
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Old 9th June 2018, 11:38 AM   #2829
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Roger was saying what may be true, history will call cryptos ponzi schemes.
Only if history doesn't actually know what a Ponzi scheme is.

Quote:
I see this as a legitimate forecast.
That goes without saying.
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Old 11th June 2018, 06:36 AM   #2830
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Bitcoin just took a huge drop! Hit a low of 6629.
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Old 11th June 2018, 09:40 AM   #2831
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The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man
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Old 11th June 2018, 09:42 AM   #2832
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There goes another 10% ..
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Old 11th June 2018, 10:32 AM   #2833
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Massive theft.

Quote:
The price of bitcoin slumped more than 7% after South Korea's Coinrail announced that it had been targeted by cyberthieves. In a statement Monday, the exchange said that it had a suffered a security breach in which hackers stole about 30% of its virtual currencies.

The theft was of less well-known cryptocurrencies rather than bitcoin itself. Still, the news sent shock waves through virtual currency markets. As well as bitcoin, prices for other commonly traded digital currencies like ethereum also plunged. Nearly $30 billion in cryptocurrency wealth was wiped in about seven hours of trading, according to data provider Coinmarketcap.com.

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Old 11th June 2018, 11:39 AM   #2834
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Time to buy ! Time to buy !

Maybe ..
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Old 11th June 2018, 10:52 PM   #2835
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I don't see that. Ponzi schemes provide an income for the holder of the asset. The income is not derived, as the investor supposes, from earnings of the asset, but from investments by later victims. However there is an income. Bitcoin produces no income of any kind. It is therefore not a Ponzi scheme. It is a speculative bubble.
Actually it's both. Cryptocurrencies are a new kind of Ponzi scheme that anyone can get in on. In the early days you didn't need a particularly powerful computer to mine bitcoins, so it was possible to create 'money' out of thin air. Then all you had to do was sit back and watch it's 'value' grow as more suckers poured money into it. The entity calling itself 'Satoshi Nakamoto' did exactly that, 'mining' thousands of bitcoins when they were worth practically nothing. He/it knew that if bitcoin became popular the price would necessarily skyrocket, since that feature is built into it.

Unlike a physical commodity Bitcoin has virtually zero fundamental worth, so the price is almost entirely determined by how much hard currency has been traded for it. This is similar to a Ponzi scheme which has no actual earnings but is fueled solely from investor input, but since anyone can buy and sell bitcoin it is also a vehicle for speculation.

Quote:
The bubble Burst in December, and since then prices have remained in a range up to about half the December peak.
Not exactly a 'range', more a series of dead-cat bounces, each one peaking lower than the one before. This is classic bubble behavior. But who knows? Perhaps one day Bitcoin will find its element and take off to the Moon!

Quote:
By post bubble standards it's doing quite well,
If by 'quite well' you mean acting like any other bubble then yes, it is...
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Old 11th June 2018, 11:11 PM   #2836
psionl0
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Actually it's both. Cryptocurrencies are a new kind of Ponzi scheme that anyone can get in on. In the early days you didn't need a particularly powerful computer to mine bitcoins, so it was possible to create 'money' out of thin air. Then all you had to do was sit back and watch it's 'value' grow as more suckers poured money into it. The entity calling itself 'Satoshi Nakamoto' did exactly that, 'mining' thousands of bitcoins when they were worth practically nothing. He/it knew that if bitcoin became popular the price would necessarily skyrocket, since that feature is built into it.
Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.

All you need to add to this psychic ability of the early investors is the plotting with the NWO to destroy national currencies and you have re-created the CT that has been sprouted since the beginning of the bitcoin threads and repeated and refuted ad-nauseum.
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Old 11th June 2018, 11:37 PM   #2837
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
And once again the price drop is blamed on some 'anomaly' rather than a flaw in the product itself.

But not everyone agrees on the cause.

Bitcoin's Price Is Below $7K And (Some) Hodlers Aren't So Happy About It
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The price of bitcoin hit a two-month low over the weekend – and social media is alight with speculation about it.

While pundits don't quite agree on the circumstances behind the plunge (with some blaming reports of a widening manipulation crackdown, the hack of South Korean crypto exchange Coinrail or just some pre-week selling), what's clear is that the price move has acted as a kind of social thunderbolt for the community, spurring commentary from all sides.

Investor Alistair Milne ran a Twitter poll on Sunday soliciting input on what people thought sparked the dip – in perhaps a sign of the times, half of the roughly 3,700 respondents blamed "aliens"...
An exchange is hacked, a government clamps down, a celebrity comes out for or against it, a butterfly flaps its wings. There will always be something to blame for the latest disturbance. But the real cause is the nature of Bitcoin itself.

When you have an unstable system with positive feedback any small perturbation becomes greatly amplified at the output. The response tells you more about the system itself than the nature of the disturbance, which can be considered 'noise'. For bitcoin the 'energy' in the system is the amount of money invested, the driving force or 'amplifier' is investor sentiment, and social media provides the positive feedback. But the wild oscillations that result can't hide the fact that energy is leaving the system. Unless bitcoin can some find way to generate real income the slide will continue.
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Old 12th June 2018, 12:08 AM   #2838
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
All you need to add to this psychic ability of the early investors is the plotting with the NWO to destroy national currencies
I am willing to entertain the idea that 'Satoshi Nakamoto' was simply an idealistic hacker with a limited understanding of economics, who though he was doing the World a favor by kick-starting a 'digital currency' which (he thought) was desperately needed to avert global catastrophe. But if so then he was either hopelessly naive or blinded by conspiracy theories himself.

And perhaps the reason he hasn't 'de-cloaked' is that he doesn't want to admit his naivety and take responsibility for the monster he created. Or perhaps he saw how much money could be made from it...

But while he/it remains anonymous there will always be a question mark around his/its motives. A Ponzi scheme may not start out as deliberate fraud, but it becomes one when its creator realizes that the investment has no legs - and yet continues to promote it.
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Old 12th June 2018, 01:43 AM   #2839
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
And perhaps the reason he hasn't 'de-cloaked' is that he doesn't want to admit his naivety and take responsibility for the monster he created. Or perhaps he saw how much money could be made from it...
Or perhaps the entity known as "Satoshi Nakamoto" came to a bad end and that is why their wallets haven't been touched nor has anybody heard from them for a long time.

Speculation is not knowledge and hope is not a forecast. Your posts belong strictly in the CT section - as do all the other posts of the same vein that preceded yours by many years.
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Old 12th June 2018, 05:15 AM   #2840
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Or perhaps the entity known as "Satoshi Nakamoto" came to a bad end and that is why their wallets haven't been touched nor has anybody heard from them for a long time.

Speculation is not knowledge and hope is not a forecast. Your posts belong strictly in the CT section - as do all the other posts of the same vein that preceded yours by many years.
Brilliant. Oratory, I wish I had thought of that. I am actually impressed.
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