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30th October 2017, 12:26 PM | #281 |
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30th October 2017, 12:35 PM | #282 |
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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30th October 2017, 12:39 PM | #283 |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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30th October 2017, 12:41 PM | #284 |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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30th October 2017, 12:41 PM | #285 |
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We've been waiting and seeing for a long time. I'll note that this guy Papa-whatever was interviewed by the FBI in January 2017, with very specific questions about his Russian contacts. So we had a pretty intensive investigation for at least four months before Mueller took charge. That's at least 9 months of digging, and so far all the FBI has managed to do is show that Manafort and his business partner (allegedly) committed financial crimes long before joining Trump's campaign (and he was fired when evidence of those crimes came out in August 2016) and that a lower-level flunkie (a guy literally less than 30 years old who was stupid enough to be interviewed by the FBI without a lawyer present) lied to the FBI about stuff that was documented in his own emails.
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30th October 2017, 12:43 PM | #286 |
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Well, Hillary is certainly smart enough to use two layers of intermediaries (or three, depending upon how you count), but I doubt Trump is. Which is why I suspect Trump is cleaner than your average presidential candidate. If Mueller conducted the same investigation of Hillary's campaign, you would see quid pro quos with foreign countries all the hell over the place, although with just enough of a buffer that other people would be taking the fall.
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30th October 2017, 12:47 PM | #287 |
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I guess my sister knows George Papadopoulos and his family. I guess she never told him my mantra: Don't talk to the *********** FBI
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30th October 2017, 12:49 PM | #288 |
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"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov |
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30th October 2017, 12:49 PM | #289 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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30th October 2017, 12:50 PM | #290 |
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Its also possible that Russia didn't collude with Trump (personally/directly) because they found him such an idiot that they figure it would be best to fix the election in his favor without his assistance.
Even if there is no proof of Trump's initial collusion, wouldn't he still be liable due to his firing of Comey (which might be seen as obstruction of justice). After all, isn't that what happened with Watergate? Nixon didn't know about the initial break in; it was his attempts to hide the crimes of his minions that caused the big problems. |
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30th October 2017, 12:50 PM | #291 |
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30th October 2017, 12:50 PM | #292 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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30th October 2017, 12:52 PM | #293 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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30th October 2017, 12:56 PM | #294 |
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Wonder why 2012 activity took so long to prosecute?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investi...ctment-n815721
Quote:
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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30th October 2017, 12:56 PM | #295 |
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30th October 2017, 12:58 PM | #296 |
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"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan |
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30th October 2017, 12:59 PM | #297 |
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30th October 2017, 01:00 PM | #298 |
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30th October 2017, 01:02 PM | #299 |
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30th October 2017, 01:05 PM | #300 |
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So Papa may be one of the Sonny The Bull Graviano's in this case?
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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30th October 2017, 01:05 PM | #301 |
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That would require the campaign to be operating outside of Trump and that's clearly not the case, Trump relishes bossing people around.
If the campaign colluded, Trump colluded. For example, Trump wrote Donnie Jr's reply about the TT meeting being about Russian adoptions. And there are the meetings with and subsequent firing of Comey. I'm pretty sure Mueller considers Comey a reliable witness to those meetings with Trump. |
30th October 2017, 01:06 PM | #302 |
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The Benghazi investigation was not a criminal investigation. It was a congressional investigation, one in which the executive branch was playing an obstructionist role in addition to the obstructionist role played by the Democrats on the congressional committees. It is hardly any surprise that it moved at a snail's pace. The investigations began in late 2012, and we didn't even find out that Hillary Clinton had a private server, where literally every single one of her work emails was stored, until March 2015. Pretty *********** amazing, huh? Mueller on the other hand has unlimited investigative resources at his disposal, two grand juries, and basically a free hand with no oversight.
The investigation really shouldn't take very long at all. When Mueller issues a subpoena, he gets the documents right away. When he asks to interview a key person, the interview happens within days of at most a couple of weeks of when he wants it. Comparing with the Benghazi investigations, it's like night and day in terms of the speed at which things happen. |
30th October 2017, 01:07 PM | #303 |
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"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov |
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30th October 2017, 01:07 PM | #304 |
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According to the GPS Dossier... Trump - now the nominee - would use his influence on the GOP and their platform. He was going to kill the idea that the GOP wanted to give weapons to Ukriane to help fight Russia. In return, Russia would "leak" the Democrats hacked e-mails. Rachel Maddow did a story on that a while back, and I'm pressed for time and quick Google search isn't yielding much. |
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30th October 2017, 01:09 PM | #305 |
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30th October 2017, 01:11 PM | #306 |
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Just because we cite that mantra about Nixon surely does not make the mantra valid in this case.
I happen to think a lot of what the Nixon admin was involved in was worse than the coverup. Breaking into Ellsworth's psychiatrist's office, for example; the secret slush fund, and if you accept what history has since uncovered, worst of all was sending Kissinger to sabotage the Paris Peace Accord to increase Nixon's chance of reelection. |
30th October 2017, 01:12 PM | #307 |
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Papa might have worn a wire to try to get some evidence, but this was likely unsuccessful, or we'd have had a leak already.
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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30th October 2017, 01:13 PM | #308 |
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Mueller's also quite likely has one or two more talking minions up his sleeve, and he is now putting a pair of slightly bigger minions on house arrest to see who starts talking faster, faced with too much dirt on their lying arses.
Mueller went after Manafort and Gates because he can bust their guilty arses NOW. But they are not his end targets, obviously. If he wasn't pretty damned confident he can get more out of the pair than we know so far, he would have waited longer with the move - essentially until his final report. Mueller is not going to end his career on an embarrassment. He could easily safe face if his investigation ended without finding collusion and handing the collateral crimes he found on the way to the appropriate normal authorities, and tell exactly that at the press conference before his retirement. He'd go out as a hero. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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30th October 2017, 01:13 PM | #309 |
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30th October 2017, 01:16 PM | #310 |
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I mean that it probably did not net any big fish or we'd have had a leak. There were hints of what was probably going on.
https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/...-wire-mueller/ |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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30th October 2017, 01:19 PM | #311 |
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"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov |
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30th October 2017, 01:19 PM | #312 |
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Well except for Trump's clear appeal encouraging Russia to investigate his opponent.
Here's why I think the indictments are revealing. It's possible these people would have some expectation that Trump would blanket-pardon them, effectively neutralizing any hold investigators had on them, greatly reducing the risk that they would cooperate with prosecutors. That they have, it seems to me, given up dirt indicates a possibility that they know they can't count on a Trump pardon. Which shows a consciousness, IMO, that Trump *might lose his power to pardon them*, i.e., that he might lose the presidency. I'm less interested by the possibility of collusion than by the possibility that Ivanka and Don Jr. were involved in money laundering. They were working with shady organizations in real estate deals. In Azerbaijan Ivanka posed picking the drapes or something - a tower that never fulfilled its promise as a luxury destination. Not surprisingly, since it was built away from the other amenities a hotel might want to be located by. A tower that the Trumps backpedaled away from having any part of except a licensing deal. Well, and picking interior furnishings and advertising Ivanka's apparent involvement. Shady financing somewhat documented, from Eastern European and Iranian families tied to the Revolutionary Guard. Construction is a handy means of money laundering. Especially towers that look impressive from the outside but have nothing much going on inside. This is very noticeable in Panama, where at least some years ago you could see nice office space on one floor, with other floors vacant and unfinished. (In fact Panamanian government agencies enjoyed some of that nice office space - and I went to the wrong floor). So from the outside it looks like something is going gangbusters, until you realize many of the floors aren't for rent. Though ironically I suppose the lure of cheap office space in an overbuilt tower market would eventually fill some of the buildings! Organized crime. Gangsters at the highest level in Trump's circles, possible including some still in the White House. Trump himself may be immune, but his kids? I'm not so sure. OK I'll catch up, almost done. That's just where I was going a couple of days ago when I did not post this speculation. |
30th October 2017, 01:21 PM | #313 |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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30th October 2017, 01:24 PM | #314 |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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30th October 2017, 01:26 PM | #315 |
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The court held three hearings litigating this Mueller grand jury privilege issue in September—no leaks.It's damned impressive how this was mostly kept under wraps until today. |
30th October 2017, 01:45 PM | #316 |
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30th October 2017, 01:52 PM | #317 |
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30th October 2017, 02:00 PM | #318 |
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That sounds like collusion. Seriously I think it would be bad form for a federal investigator to attempt to influence state investigations to that level of detail. Investigators need to allow their own cases to ripen each unto its season, following the timetable of meticulous inquiry only.
But New York state has come damn close to inditing Don Jr. and Ivanka. |
30th October 2017, 02:03 PM | #319 |
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Pat Leahy called for a bill protecting the independence of the Mueller Investigation.
What I want to know is: Will Batman be involved/ |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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30th October 2017, 02:09 PM | #320 |
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It's reminiscent of the judge that gave a ridiculously light sentence to the guy that raped an unconscious woman because his life shouldn't be ruined for something that took "only 30 minutes". For that matter, didn't the Las Vegas shooter only fire on the crowd for six minutes? This is a fascinating concept. If you can commit a crime in a sufficiently short time, it's not really a crime, I guess.
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