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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , lawsuits , Michael Cohen , Stephanie Clifford , Stormy Daniels , Trump controversies

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Old 26th May 2018, 02:46 PM   #1161
Jungle Jim
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Originally Posted by beren View Post
Regarding the unsavoriness of Avenatti

TBD is, in part, trying to label many of us hypocrites. The logic is that we care about Trump being a bad person, but ignore Avenatti, ergo BIASED PARTISAN HACK.

I speak only for myself here, although i imagine this is true fur many others in the thread as well.

The comparison is flawed for the following reasons

1. I DO care about any crimes or unethical actions committed by Avenatti. To be clear, I care about them in the same general way I care about all crimes. I fully and completely support the investigation by the proper officials of any criminal or unethical actions committed by Avenatti. I further support the fair and proper application of the appropriate penalties for such actions. In fact, i support this with regards to any and all people. f Full stop. For the purposes of this discussion I am considering both Trump and Avenatti to be people.

2. Avenatti's transgressions, real or alleged, do not particularly matter to me on an individual personal basis. I care only in the abstract. E.g., I want all muggers caught, but I am more invested in the guy who mugged me, as an analogy. Avenatti has an extremely limited ability to hurt me, the people I care about, or the institutions of this country.

3. I do not support Avenatti running for office, and would not vote for him in almost all circumstances. If he attempted to strike up a friendship with me a would rebuff him.

4. I care, personally, far more about what Trump has done and is alleged to have done, both in regards to the subject of this thread and several others because the power he now wields and the way he does it has the potential to negatively affect me, my family and my country in significant ways.

So yes, I am mostly uninterested in TBD's rabid recitation of Avenatti's past. I care about Avenatti only inasmuch as he can effect things I care about. I welcome any legitimate investigation Into his wrongdoings, but don't really want the details.

By the same token, I am very invested in what Trump had and is doing. It's not hypocrisy. Its not whataboutism. It is consistent, it's principled, and it is based on enlightened self interest.

I welcome TBD explaining the principles he adheres to that make him care about Avenatti's issues more than Trump's. A comparison of his principles and mine could make for an enlightening and productive discussion.
Excellent post. I hope TBD addresses it.
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Old 26th May 2018, 03:29 PM   #1162
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
Excellent post. I hope TBD addresses it.
I strongly concur.
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Old 26th May 2018, 03:42 PM   #1163
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
Excellent post. I hope TBD addresses it.
Sure, I don’t recall calling anyone a hypocrite.

Also, if people don’t care about Avenatti’s poor representation of Stormy and his other clients, ain’t nobody forcing you to read this thread or post here.

I can’t fathom why you thought that silly call out post was excellent tho, oh well.
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Old 26th May 2018, 03:58 PM   #1164
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Sure, I don’t recall calling anyone a hypocrite.

Also, if people don’t care about Avenatti’s poor representation of Stormy and his other clients, ain’t nobody forcing you to read this thread or post here.

I can’t fathom why you thought that silly call out post was excellent tho, oh well.
That doesn't address the point (for me, at least):

Why do your posts express far more concern with Avenatti's transgressions than with Trump's transgressions, when Trump is in a greater position of power with far more potential to abuse said power?
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Old 26th May 2018, 05:05 PM   #1165
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
...Why do your posts express far more concern with Avenatti's transgressions than with Trump's transgressions, when Trump is in a greater position of power with far more potential to abuse said power?
I think the answer to that question is pretty clear. I see this on a number of message boards. The hardcore Trump supporters will make any argument they can think of if it supports Trump and maligns his detractors. I think you have to take these arguments with more than a grain of salt. In fact a lot more!
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Old 26th May 2018, 05:19 PM   #1166
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Not a grain of salt, but a grain carrier of salt.
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Old 26th May 2018, 05:55 PM   #1167
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
That doesn't address the point (for me, at least):

Why do your posts express far more concern with Avenatti's transgressions than with Trump's transgressions, when Trump is in a greater position of power with far more potential to abuse said power?
Since it's highly unlikely you'll get a straight forward answer, allow me: Because no matter how despicable Trump's words/actions, the Fuhrer is not to be criticized. Anyone who crosses him is to be attacked. Facts, morality, and power imbalance are entirely irrelevant.
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:17 PM   #1168
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Since it's highly unlikely you'll get a straight forward answer, allow me: Because no matter how despicable Trump's words/actions, the Fuhrer is not to be criticized. Anyone who crosses him is to be attacked. Facts, morality, and power imbalance are entirely irrelevant.
That's the thing--I may be misremembering, but I'm reasonably sure that in some posts TBD has at least implied he's NOT a Trump supporter. Of course, even if I'm remembering correctly, it's entirely possible he wasn't being truthful and in reality he's a closet Trump supporter.

I'm just genuinely curious of his motivation with these posts.
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:18 PM   #1169
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I think the answer to that question is pretty clear. I see this on a number of message boards. The hardcore Trump supporters will make any argument they can think of if it supports Trump and maligns his detractors. I think you have to take these arguments with more than a grain of salt. In fact a lot more!
Fortunately, you do not have to take them with a grain of salt, because I constantly and consistently link to third party sources that can be judged on their own merits.

/I commend today’s posters for a marathon session of ad hominem fallacies /tu quoque variety.
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:20 PM   #1170
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Since it's highly unlikely you'll get a straight forward answer, allow me: Because no matter how despicable Trump's words/actions, the Fuhrer is not to be criticized. Anyone who crosses him is to be attacked. Facts, morality, and power imbalance are entirely irrelevant.
I think a fair number of people simply believe Trump is all the things Trump imagines he is. I don't understand the psychology, but they appear to be right there in fantasyland with him.
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:21 PM   #1171
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post

/I commend today’s posters for a marathon session of ad hominem fallacies /tu quoque variety.
Asking what motivates you is not a tu quoque.
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:25 PM   #1172
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Sure, I don’t recall calling anyone a hypocrite.

Also, if people don’t care about Avenatti’s poor representation of Stormy and his other clients, ain’t nobody forcing you to read this thread or post here.

I can’t fathom why you thought that silly call out post was excellent tho, oh well.
It's ridiculous that you suggest Avenatti's representation of Stormy Daniels is poor. What could she possibly expect in results that he hasn't delivered on? Are you still of the opinion that Avenatti will lose this case? I think his representation has kept her name in the headlines which has resulted in increasing her income.
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:27 PM   #1173
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
That's the thing--I may be misremembering, but I'm reasonably sure that in some posts TBD has at least implied he's NOT a Trump supporter. Of course, even if I'm remembering correctly, it's entirely possible he wasn't being truthful and in reality he's a closet Trump supporter.

I'm just genuinely curious of his motivation with these posts.
It was a head fake.
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:40 PM   #1174
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Sleazy porn star lawyer and plaintiff class action lawyer bitterly complains that the press investigated his conduct following the entry of a huge judgment against him.

Today he hypocritically complains that all the lawyers in the case should be investigated.

What a loser. I hope for his clients’ sake that Judge Wood is taking notes.

Objective third party source. https://www.law.com/newyorklawjourna...20180426093801
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:44 PM   #1175
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Since it's highly unlikely you'll get a straight forward answer

That was certainly well anticipated. LOL
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:45 PM   #1176
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Old 26th May 2018, 06:57 PM   #1177
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
That's the thing--I may be misremembering, but I'm reasonably sure that in some posts TBD has at least implied he's NOT a Trump supporter. Of course, even if I'm remembering correctly, it's entirely possible he wasn't being truthful and in reality he's a closet Trump supporter.

I'm just genuinely curious of his motivation with these posts.
Why does who he supports matter in this argument?
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Old 26th May 2018, 07:02 PM   #1178
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Why does who he supports matter in this argument?
I'm curious as to what motivates him to post extensively concerning Avenatti sleaze while simultaneously turning a blind eye to Trump sleaze, particularly if he claims (as I seem to recall) to not be a Trump supporter.

If it is indeed the case that he is not a Trump supporter, what is the motivation for such a double standard?
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Old 26th May 2018, 07:03 PM   #1179
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Of course, if TBD has his own reasons for refusing candor on this issue, I can fully understand that. LOL
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Old 26th May 2018, 07:28 PM   #1180
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The question was, essentially:
Quote:
Why do your posts express far more concern with Avenatti's transgressions than with Trump's, when Trump is in a far greater position of power over American lives?
Here's TBD's answer:
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Fortunately, you do not have to take them with a grain of salt, because I constantly and consistently link to third party sources that can be judged on their own merits...
I said, and I think the above illustrates it, you are not going to be maneuvered or coaxed into writing anything critical or negative about Donald Trump.

'k
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Old 26th May 2018, 08:20 PM   #1181
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
and yet that did not contradict a single thing I wrote, nor remove the filthy stench coming from that involuntary bankruptcy filing.
While you have a laser beam focused on Avenatti all I can think is "so what". I'm not here to defend him.

Knock yourself out of you want but you can't dig Trump and Cohen out of this hole no matter what you find on him.
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:07 PM   #1182
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
While you have a laser beam focused on Avenatti all I can think is "so what". I'm not here to defend him.

Knock yourself out of you want but you can't dig Trump and Cohen out of this hole no matter what you find on him.
That messenger is not a good guy. But the messages are spot on.
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:19 PM   #1183
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While you have a laser beam focused on Tbd all I can think is "so what". I'm not here to defend him.

Knock yourself out of you want but you can't dig Avenatti out of this hole no matter what you find on him.
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:39 PM   #1184
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
While you have a laser beam focused on Tbd all I can think is "so what". I'm not here to defend him.

Knock yourself out of you want but you can't dig Avenatti out of this hole no matter what you find on him.
AGAIN. WHO CARES?

Does it change one iota what he has said about Trump?

Does it change one iota what he has said about Cohen?

Does it change one iota what he has said about Giuliani?

Does it change one iota what he has said about Daniels?

Until you can demonstrate that it does.

I DON'T CARE.
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:53 PM   #1185
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TDB, Avenatti won the election and is now president. Why do you keep bringing up old stuff?`No matter how much you moan, it won't make Cohen get more votes in the electoral college.
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Old 26th May 2018, 10:05 PM   #1186
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
While you have a laser beam focused on Tbd all I can think is "so what". I'm not here to defend him.

Knock yourself out of you want but you can't dig Avenatti out of this hole no matter what you find on him.

I'm not focused on TBD at all. I'm not trying to dig Avenatti out of any hole. I'm focussed on Trump and his 'personal' lawyer ATM. I would love to see a "all lawyers are ****' thread. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people like Avenatti out there. Up until he became involved in the POTUS vs Porn Star case he appears to have been under everyone's radar.


I do note that he has Trump and Cohen twisted in knots, though.
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Old 26th May 2018, 10:06 PM   #1187
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
TDB, Avenatti won the election and is now president. ...
No no no, he's VP. Hillary is POTUS.
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Old 27th May 2018, 01:31 AM   #1188
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
While you have a laser beam focused on Tbd all I can think is "so what". I'm not here to defend him.

Knock yourself out of you want but you can't dig Avenatti out of this hole no matter what you find on him.
And Trump can't dig himself out of the hole Avenatti put him in. He may not be perfect but he's politically damaged Trump and subverted his presidency which is an act of patriotism.
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Old 27th May 2018, 02:19 AM   #1189
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The question was, essentially:


Here's TBD's answer:


I said, and I think the above illustrates it, you are not going to be maneuvered or coaxed into writing anything critical or negative about Donald Trump.

'k
Because we’re not supposed to make the argument about other posters?
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:21 AM   #1190
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because we’re not supposed to make the argument about other posters?
The fallback argument if 'all else fails.'

TBD was asked about arguing relentlessly (278 posts and counting) that Michael Avenatti's behavior is really bad, but being unwilling (so far) to discuss The Dunce's behavior. As president of the US isn't Trump in a position to have a far greater effect on the lives of the average America than Michael Avenatti? Isn't Trump's behavior the relevant part of this thread? That less than a year-and-a-half after being married, just four months after the birth of his son, he's off boinking some porn star. Then, on the eve of the election, she's paid $130,000 to remain silent about 'the encounter.'


That doesn't sound very nice, but despite all the postings TBD has not only never addressed the behavior of the man who is now president, he has ignored questions about this seeming contradiction. This is about his arguments, not him personally.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:01 AM   #1191
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The fallback argument if 'all else fails.'

TBD was asked about arguing relentlessly (278 posts and counting) that Michael Avenatti's behavior is really bad, but being unwilling (so far) to discuss The Dunce's behavior. As president of the US isn't Trump in a position to have a far greater effect on the lives of the average America than Michael Avenatti? Isn't Trump's behavior the relevant part of this thread? That less than a year-and-a-half after being married, just four months after the birth of his son, he's off boinking some porn star. Then, on the eve of the election, she's paid $130,000 to remain silent about 'the encounter.'


That doesn't sound very nice, but despite all the postings TBD has not only never addressed the behavior of the man who is now president, he has ignored questions about this seeming contradiction. This is about his arguments, not him personally.
And we should not overlook the fact that the parties in the suit are:

Cohen/EC LLC
Trump
Clifford (Stormy Daniels)

Notice who is not a party ? Thats right ! Michael Avenatti !
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:20 AM   #1192
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The status hearing in the SDNY is up on May 30, where I expect that we will get a fairly comprehensive update from the special master that she has been able to largely complete her task.

I expect that will render the porn star and her lawyer’s requests intervene moot, although I expect that Avenatti will want to continue to try to interfere to market his personal brand.

I notice that everyone has ignored Avenatti’s silly letter about leaking tape recordings with the porn star none have which come to light and which appeared to have sprung from the fever dreams of the porn star’s lawyer.

Hopefully Judge Wood will say “Basta” to Stormy and Avenatti, as I and others have comprehesinvely shown that he is simply not fit to appear in court.

Basta indeed.

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Old 27th May 2018, 08:30 AM   #1193
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They should be moved to a new thread entitled "How not to be objective".
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:37 AM   #1194
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Stormy Daniels' lawyer Michael Avenatti has become a 'hero' on the left — and he has an aggressive fan base

http://www.businessinsider.com/storm...ti-fans-2018-5

another story about how Avenatti has made it all about him.

By the way, read some of those comments, I assume they meant an "idiotic" fan base.

Quote:
For example, supporters were quick to approve his comment to Business Insider on the controversy.

"So what," Avenatti said when asked about the Tully's lawsuits. "Many companies abandon locations and have landlord tenant disputes."
The response: "Perfect response. Who gives a damn?! They want to try to make him look bad since he’s bringing the heat!"

Sure he defrauded his partners, and 100's of people lost their jobs and he left delinquent tax bills all over the place, but he is bring the "heat."

vomit
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Old 27th May 2018, 08:55 AM   #1195
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Stormy Daniels' lawyer Michael Avenatti has become a 'hero' on the left — and he has an aggressive fan base

http://www.businessinsider.com/storm...ti-fans-2018-5

another story about how Avenatti has made it all about him.

By the way, read some of those comments, I assume they meant an "idiotic" fan base.



The response: "Perfect response. Who gives a damn?! They want to try to make him look bad since he’s bringing the heat!"

Sure he defrauded his partners, and 100's of people lost their jobs and he left delinquent tax bills all over the place, but he is bring the "heat."

vomit
I guess you and Avenatti have something in common, then. HE wants to (according to you) make this all about Avenatti. You have put a massive effort into doing the same thing.

Just to remind you. The sleazebucket President had an affair with a porn star and rather than letting her tell the world about it paid her to keep quiet. Within a fortnight of the General Election. He had his bag man (Mikey The Fixer) pay her off out of a shell corporation set-up for just that purpose and 'lo and behold, within 18 months, that shell corporation was earning millions in access fees to get to see THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. This last part is what has to be hammered home... he was selling access to the head of the US Government.

But you want to give Avenatti his due because that's not important. How is all of that not important in a thread specifically about all of that. You started the thread. Perhaps the mods aren't willing to separate the Avenatti slander because that's really all there is. In that case, mayhaps they would rename the thread, "Stuff to keep you from thinking about the misdeeds of Aimless, Shameless and Blameless".
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:27 AM   #1196
Regnad Kcin
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I would like to offer up a possibility.

Could it be that TBD is acting as gadfly WRT Avenatti not so much to focus on him but rather point out that he (and by extension Ms. Daniels) are not being treated with a sufficiently critical/skeptical eye? If the goal of Trump’s adversaries is, let’s face it, to weaken, if not have him removed from power, maybe someone so apparently flawed, representing someone hardly hurt, financially or reputationally, is a perhaps a pretty flimsy way to go about it?

I’m recalling a couple of times in this thread where TBD wrote (paraphrasing from memory*), Stormy is being held up as some kind of heroine - making an agreement and taking the money right before the election rather than speak up...when it might’ve meant something.

If this is more or less true, it might go some ways to explaining TBD’s focus. There’s more than sufficient conversation everywhere regarding the transgressions of the school bully. But if you and your classmates are going to go after him, maybe best to not rally behind someone with baggage of his own, not to mention little in the way of a good strong punch.

*I’m on a phone and can’t at the moment search for specific posts. ETA: But lo and behold in the very next post...
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Last edited by Regnad Kcin; 27th May 2018 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:36 AM   #1197
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Recall that people were so very proud that Stormy received the key to the City of West Hollywood because she heroically took 130k instead of speaking up when it might have made a difference.

The guy who gave it to her? Paid 500k in a sexual harassment case earlier in 2016:

http://www.latimes.com/local/westsid...223-story.html
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:39 AM   #1198
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Wouldn't it be cool if there was a thread about Michael Avenatti as a person, separate and apart from a thread about the merits of a particular court case.
I mostly agree. I think that any aspect of Avenatti that is specific to Avenatti/Stormy v Trump belongs here. (Not Kevin Bacon style "specific".)

Everything else we can do without, especially given the notable volume of the tangential arm-waving.
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Old 27th May 2018, 09:51 AM   #1199
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I mostly agree. I think that any aspect of Avenatti that is specific to Avenatti/Stormy v Trump belongs here. (Not Kevin Bacon style "specific".)

Everything else we can do without, especially given the notable volume of the tangential arm-waving.
What Avenatti is doing, sure. But pages and pages of red herring nonsense about unrelated aspects of Avenatti, no.
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Old 27th May 2018, 10:11 AM   #1200
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Recall that people were so very proud that Stormy received the key to the City of West Hollywood because she heroically took 130k instead of speaking up when it might have made a difference.

The guy who gave it to her? Paid 500k in a sexual harassment case earlier in 2016:

http://www.latimes.com/local/westsid...223-story.html
Not one word about Trump PAYING that $130K.
Not one word about Trump's fixer who paid the $130K.
Not one word about The NDA.
Not one word about whether Trump knew about the NDA.
Not one word about when Trump knew about the NDA.
Not one word about whether Trump had sex with Stormy Daniels.
Not one word about whether Melanie knew Trump had sex with Stormy Daniels.
Not one word about whether Melanie was upset that Trump had sex with Stormy Daniels.
Not one word about whether Karen McDougal knew Trump had sex with Stormy.
Not one word about the going rate Trump pays women to have sex with him.
Not one word about Essential Consultants LLC and the pay for play scheme.
Not one word about whether Trump was getting a cut from Essential Consultants LLC.
Not one word if the Big Dog thinks Cohen's actions were legal or proper.
Not one word about whether the Big Dog thinks Trump's actions were proper.
Not one word about Trump's moral character.
Not one word about whether the Big Dog admires Trump.
Not one word about whether he wants to have children like Trump.

God forbid he ever talks about the other half of this equation.
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