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23rd May 2018, 06:21 PM | #1 |
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...I can't think of an appropriate "while black" for this one.
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/5/23/1...g-brown-arrest
... POLICE "What's your name?" STERLING BROWN "Sterling. Sterling Brown." POLICE "I'm asking you." STERLING BROWN "I'm telling you. Sterling Brown." POLICE "These are simple questions man." STERLING BROWN "No I'm answering..." POLICE "These are simple questions, and you are being like all bad-ass to me alright?" Lets all, for the purposes of debate, concede the following so we don't have to spend pages arguing about it. Parking in a disabled spot when you aren't disabled is wrong. Evil. TERRIBLE. And Sterling shouldn't have done it. Even though it was the middle of the night, and the entire carpark was empty, and he was only going into the shop for a few minutes, he should not have done it. Bad Sterling. And Sterling should have backed up when asked to back up. He maybe shouldn't have been as aggressive at the start of the encounter as he was. And when he was asked to take his hands out his pockets then maybe he should have taken his hands out of his pockets. But wow. Watching all the lights of all the police cars turning up? Then the original officer saying he only didn't need that big of a response, but they all stayed anyway? And them all being kinda nonchalant about Sterling until the moment they decided to crowd him and all of a sudden they were worried about what was in his pockets? For parking in a disabled spot? For the record the police chief has said sorry, has said the police acted inappropriately, and the members were disciplined. But as always with these sorts of cases, it probably only came to light because Sterling Brown is famous. |
23rd May 2018, 07:15 PM | #2 |
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Watched the video. No excuse for that. The cops went from whatever to violent take down swiftly and suddenly. They ordered him to take his hands out of his pockets, he informs them that he has things in his hands (which is sensible for a black man in the situation to say, as he doesn't want them to see something in his hands and say "GUN!"), and they immediately go full pigpile, followed up by taser.
It's definitely worth watching for the aftermath, as they try to figure out why they have taken this guy down and begin to realize that he is a minor celebrity, and they may have a problem... |
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24th May 2018, 03:28 AM | #3 |
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You mean to tell me African-Americans in this country are expected to obey parking laws?
Can we please repeal the ADA to end the systemic racism and oppression? |
24th May 2018, 03:47 AM | #4 |
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Identity politics is doing wonders for this forum
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24th May 2018, 03:52 AM | #5 |
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Seems Brown played this correctly. Instead of obeying the command to remove his hands from his pockets he informed the police that he had things in his hands. Instead of shooting him, the police mobbed him. He walks away with his life.
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24th May 2018, 03:59 AM | #6 |
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I guess you don't get it, eh?
Well, the mayor and the chief of police do. They apologized. They also promised to try to work with the department so that incidents like this don't happen in the future. The cops responsible for this ridiculous display may or may not get it by now, but they've been "disciplined" for what happened. (I don't know what sort of discipline.) Perhaps the stain on their record, which was well deserved, will help them think about how they might better handle similar incidents in the future. Of course, this is America, so there will be a lawsuit, which Mr. Brown will win. I'm not so enthusiastic about that part, because the taxpayers of Milwaukee will have to pony up the money, and I'm not sure that does anyone any good, but it does get the attention of police forces. Even though the Chief of Police realizes the error that was committed here, the knowledge that departmental budgets are on the line if it happens again can be an incentive. So, you may think this is about parking tickets, but if so, that just means you don't get it. The people that matter, do. One would hope that the identity of the wronged man isn't what made them realize the error of the department's ways. One would hope that a letter of apology would have been issued even if this guy hadn't been a home town NBA player. We can dream, I suppose. At least, probably because he was an NBA player, more people will look at what happens and see what's wrong with policing these days. |
24th May 2018, 04:02 AM | #7 |
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Parking across several handicapped spaces while you are not handicapped is wrong, even if it is 2am, there are no other cars in the lot, and you are only going in for a minute. And if the first officer had given him a ticket, everything would have been fine.
Instead he calls for backup (???), several other cops show up (???), they look in his car windows to see if anything is in plain view repeatedly, they surround him, angrily demand that the takes his hands out of his pockets, and when he politely states that he has something is in his hands they go full takedown (?!?!), with a taser for a chaser (!!!). They then go into his car for a more detailed search (is that even legal?), and arrest him for contempt of cop... |
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24th May 2018, 04:02 AM | #8 |
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I know it's not directly relevant, but does anyone ever follow up on what kind of 'discipline' actually takes place with Police Officers in this kind of situation?
It's very easy for the senior officers to say 'they have been disciplined', but what does that actually mean? |
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24th May 2018, 04:22 AM | #9 |
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24th May 2018, 04:34 AM | #10 |
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...what part of:
"For the purposes of debate, lets concede that parking in a disabled spot when you aren't disabled is wrong. Evil. TERRIBLE. And Sterling shouldn't have done it. Even though it was the middle of the night, and the entire carpark was empty, and he was only going into the shop for a few minutes, he should not have done it. Bad Sterling" ...did you fail to understand? Who exactly are you arguing with? |
24th May 2018, 04:37 AM | #11 |
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Yes, and Mr. Brown could have parked in a non-disabled spot. Mr. Brown may have just walked away with the ticket if he would not have tried to push up on the cop and try to get in his car. The cop may have even asked for an autograph, told him he was a big fan and gave him a verbal warning not to do it again. Mr. Brown chose differently.
There are a few things you are overlooking. It can clearly be heard in the video that he called for a squad, not multiples. He even says that to other officers on multiple occasions. "Angrily demands" that he removes his hands from his pocket? I would have called it assertively but, yes, that is standard procedure for cops all across the country. I'm sure you can figure out why a cop would want someone they're questioning to keep their hands where they can be observed. I understand that Mr. Brown is an NBA player, surely he has enough coordination to let go of whatever is in his hands before he removes them out of his pockets. Watch the video again. An officer asked him to remove his hands from his pockets, and when he refuses, the cops grabbed his arms to do it themselves. Mr. Brown resisted and got taken to the ground. It's amazing how some want to look past Mr. Brown's escalation and start blaming the cops for their response to his escalation. |
24th May 2018, 04:42 AM | #12 |
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...exactly what part of
"And Sterling should have backed up when asked to back up. He maybe shouldn't have been as aggressive at the start of the encounter as he was. And when he was asked to take his hands out his pockets then maybe he should have taken his hands out of his pockets" did you fail to understand as well? And what part of "For the record the police chief has said sorry, has said the police acted inappropriately, and the members were disciplined" do you think is not a complete and utter concession from the police that they handled this badly? Do you think the police-chief got it wrong? I put all of that in the OP for a reason. It's amazing how some want to look past everything I wrote. |
24th May 2018, 05:33 AM | #13 |
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I was replying to Random in my second post.
I wasn't replying to you directly in my first post. What do you expect the police chief to do? I'm sure he's paid attention to the news over the last several years and is more than happy to make a statement saying that his officers were wrong to avoid the social justice mob attacking him and his department. If I had to guess, I would say that the officers involved will get a one week suspension with pay, or maybe a few days at the desk refreshing themselves on diversity and sensitivity training, with pay, just in case another famous minority wants to misbehave when interacting with police. |
24th May 2018, 05:38 AM | #14 |
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I volunteer for the jury.
Brown gets one dollar damages and I would vote to acquit all police officers. That's if Brown pays the parking fine. |
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24th May 2018, 05:55 AM | #15 |
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24th May 2018, 06:02 AM | #16 |
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The opening post wasn't about that....
Did you miss :.... Parking in a disabled spot when you aren't disabled is wrong. Evil. TERRIBLE. And Sterling shouldn't have done it. Even though it was the middle of the night, and the entire carpark was empty, and he was only going into the shop for a few minutes, he should not have done it. Bad Sterling.... |
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24th May 2018, 06:22 AM | #17 |
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...the quote button is a mighty fine feature. Using it would indicate to everyone that you were replying to Random in your second post. However:
Quote:
Yeah Sterling was a bit aggressive at the start. But welcome to real *********** life. The reality is that the police deal with people that are emotional for a wide variety of reasons. They may have had a fight with their spouse. They may have had a bad day at work. They may be tired, sick, and their cat may have died. They may have just robbed a bank. All of these things and more are possibilities. Police need to be prepared for the "may have just robbed a bank" and they need to be prepared for that with every single encounter. But they should not assume everyone they deal with is a bank robber. Thats an important and significant difference. I watched an incident play out a couple of years ago when I was in the waiting room at the hospital with my dad. Outside the waiting room we watched a security-orderly chatting to what looked like a patient just outside the window. After about five minutes I noticed that there was another security-orderly who had positioned himself about 20 metres away. Then I noticed a doctor and a nurse, waiting ready around the corner. And then the patient took a swing at the security-orderly. A great big haymaker. It was so big everyone in the waiting room (who had taken to watching the encounter because it was the only thing of interest that was happening) let out a collective "WHOOOA." But the haymaker didn't connect. The security-orderly pulled back and avoided the punch. Then he kept on talking. The other security-orderly stayed in position. About five minutes later, the security-orderly pulled out a packet of cigarettes and offered the patient one, who accepted. Then ten minutes later, the patient was sitting in the wheelchair, and he was taken calmly back to his ward. De-escalation. It should be the go-to tactic of all police forces all around the world. And that wasn't what happened here. The incident did de-escalate. When the officer asked for Sterling's name, and Sterling gave his name, the incident had calmed down. But instead of listening, the officer assumed Sterling was giving him lip, got angry, and re-escalated. That was the pivotal point where the officer lost control. It only continued to escalate from there: the additional units (it makes sense for an officer on his own to get back up: but the sheer scale of the back up in this case was ridiculous), the decision to firstly "ignore" Sterling, then to "crowd" Sterling and start making demands.
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You could, of course just take him at his word. But if you want to believe that the chief could get away with disciplining officers on the basis of "avoiding the social justice mob" without getting into a whole heap of strife with the police unions then who am I to stop you?
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But if you actually want to believe that this was a massive SJW conspiracy (on the basis of no evidence at all) well...you just do you. |
24th May 2018, 06:55 AM | #18 |
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I've got an appropriate 'while black' for this one:
'Being an Entitled, Arrogant, Aggressive Nitwit While Black.' Minorities face real racism and unfair treatment on the daily. Thie OP story is not one of these times. What does a story like this demonstrate? That cops will apologize if it turns out the suspect is a local celebrity? PR 101. So what? |
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24th May 2018, 07:05 AM | #19 |
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...thats not a very nice thing to say. And it really is an unfair characterization of Sterling's behaviour here. He isn't abusing his privilege. He is using it to bring light onto something that if you hadn't noticed, is a big *********** problem in the US of A.
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24th May 2018, 07:09 AM | #20 |
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My god I need to go to the police and hand myself in immediately! I've done the same thing, although I only took up one spot and there were about 11 more empty ones. WHAT IF
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24th May 2018, 07:13 AM | #21 |
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24th May 2018, 07:20 AM | #22 |
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24th May 2018, 07:48 AM | #23 |
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INdeed, so what, since the implication here is that if one were not a celebrity, the police would have behaved badly without apology. I'd consider it a complete non-issue if there were evidence that this is the kid of conduct the police regularly engage in over parking violations. But I have a feeling very few white violators, even entitled nitwits, are detained, belligerently questioned, and tased, when the usual procedure would be to issue a parking ticket. I suspect that if that were the case, we'd have heard about it many times already.
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24th May 2018, 07:53 AM | #24 |
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24th May 2018, 07:56 AM | #25 |
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I think the subsequent escalation had more to do with saying 'I have something in my hands' and the resistance afterwords. Do you think a cop might take that as a veiled threat, especially after the initial aggressiveness?
eta: parking like this prima donna did is obnoxious entitlement. Yes, it will piss a cop off and he would likely chastise such a belligerent offender, even at 2AM. Brown's aggression likely ramped it up to calling in the cavalry (over the top though that was), and things went downhill from there. Do you think if Brown had just acknowledged that it was wrong, maybe even lowered Himself to give a halfhearted 'sorry, man', we might never have heard about this? |
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24th May 2018, 08:00 AM | #26 |
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...can you point out, anyone in this thread, or anyone anywhere at all, who has argued that Sterling Brown didn't deserve to get a parking ticket?
What lobosrul5 was pointing out was how absurd it is that a car parked for a couple of minutes in a disabled park in the middle of the night in a deserted carpark somehow managed to escalate into a situation where a man ends up lying on the ground getting tasered and the city potentially on the hook of a lawsuit for millions of dollars. The cops didn't get the "last laugh here." Because they got it wrong. They got it so obviously wrong the police chief didn't even try to excuse it. |
24th May 2018, 08:02 AM | #27 |
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Yes because going to a drugstore in the middle of the night that has (IMO) way more handicap spots than is necessary when you have the flu to buy medications* and taking up a parking spot with a .0000000001% chance of inconveniencing anyone is the same as running a red light that might actually kill someone. Selective enforcement of the law is a real thing btw.
*that is why I did it |
24th May 2018, 08:13 AM | #28 |
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I hear you, but the issue is not improper parking. It's straddling two handicap spots like you think you own the streets. That kind of douchebagginess doesn't go over big with city cops, IME. It isn't about accommodating the disabled. It's about advertising that you believe yourself to be above the law.
Ever go to a Home Depot or wherever where there are plenty of handicapped spots available, but no takers? Think you can grab one for your convenience (in front of a cop) with no repercussions? |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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24th May 2018, 08:20 AM | #29 |
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Its just a shame the cops didn't have a dog, it would have been a great situation for them to get their bite in. That is always really funny.
http://watchdogsarasota.heraldtribun...e-get-ur-bite/ Because getting your face bitten and stitches is always a great punishment for any offence. |
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24th May 2018, 08:22 AM | #30 |
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No one is talking about deserving a parking ticket, or not. Feeling ok, are you?
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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24th May 2018, 08:24 AM | #31 |
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So what should the extent of the beating be?
But hey it is better than assaulting someone legally parking in a handicapped space. That is also of course totally cool and not a serious issue http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/pa...504-story.html But then obeying the law isn't exactly a defense from the cops. |
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24th May 2018, 08:31 AM | #32 |
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Straw Ahoy! No one is claiming that there should be a beating, or that there is a standard. But if you get aggressive with a cop when you are 100% in the wrong, you better damn well expect one. Police are not genteel harbingers of justice and peace. They are that 'force' thing in the middle of Law Enforcement, and many cops wake up every day praying that someone will give them a reason to split some skulls. Go ahead, poke the hornet's nest, and then cry when you get stung.
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24th May 2018, 08:38 AM | #33 |
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24th May 2018, 08:39 AM | #34 |
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It's almost like we expect the police to be able to interact with lawbreakers in a professional and proportionate manner. It's literally their job to interact with people engaged in anti-social behavior. If they can't do that in a dispassionate, reasonable way then they shouldn't be police officers.
So yeah, Sterling is a dickhead for parking across two handicap parking spaces. A cop ought to be able to issue him a ticket for it without causing a major incident. |
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24th May 2018, 08:40 AM | #35 |
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Not sure how that is relevant. The spaces are reserved for a reason. That doesn't change because no one happens to be using them at some given moment.
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I only wish those cops would be more diligent about such violations when the spaces are actually needed. My own experience suggests that this is not normally the case. |
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24th May 2018, 08:44 AM | #36 |
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24th May 2018, 08:44 AM | #37 |
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Breaking even a minor law will likely prompt the police to approach you.
Refusing to obey basic commands like taking your hands out of your pockets isn't a good idea. Why not just apologize for the parking deal, do what the officer says and move on with your evening? |
24th May 2018, 08:47 AM | #38 |
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24th May 2018, 08:53 AM | #39 |
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It has been shown that, sometimes, obeying an officer's instructions can get you shot. Especially when it involves hands and pockets and ... worse still ... your skin is the wrong color. I think, under the circumstances, an excess of caution was warranted.
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Clearly, when even obeying something as simple as giving the officer his name when asked was proving to be difficult for him to comply with to the officer's satisfaction, there is reason to believe that things weren't necessarily going to improve. |
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24th May 2018, 09:01 AM | #40 |
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Much more often not complying with commands is going to end badly for the perp.
Considering that fact, describing not complying with basic commands as exercising an "excess of caution" is confusing to me. I don't see a person who is acting like he is afraid of the situation he is in. I see a guy acting like he couldn't care less and doesnt have to abide. |
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