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24th May 2018, 01:57 PM | #81 |
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If it is policy that multiple units have to respond to a frickin' parking violation, then that PD's got issues. That a cop was wasting his time patrolling parking lots at 2AM for such violations is equally crazy -isn't that like peak drunk driver time? They do have some discretion in enforcing the law and we are talking about the most minor of violations there is. To call for backup at all seems way out of proportion -IT"S A PARKING VIOLATION!
And before anyone goes off on a rant about the importance of handicapped parking -yes, I get it, but it was 2AM in an empty parking lot. Is that really an enforcement priority right then? |
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24th May 2018, 01:58 PM | #82 |
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24th May 2018, 01:58 PM | #83 |
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The problem may be that, because the person was black, he had very good reason not simply to pull his hands out without an explanation, since he had good reason to fear that if he just pulled his hands out of his pockets with something in a hand, he would be shot and killed. It has happened, after all.
You see a refusal to comply, but others might see a refusal to be murdered for complying. Given that there is no particular reason for anyone to comply with anything in the case of issuing a parking ticket, it might well be considered reasonable to see the police as instigating an incident that was not necessary in the first place. |
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24th May 2018, 02:02 PM | #84 |
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24th May 2018, 02:03 PM | #85 |
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24th May 2018, 02:10 PM | #86 |
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24th May 2018, 02:25 PM | #87 |
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Well, he could just leave whatever was in his pocket there. It's kind of weird not to remove your hands because you are holding something. What exactly are you holding that you can't let go of?
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24th May 2018, 02:30 PM | #88 |
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24th May 2018, 02:33 PM | #89 |
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Of course there are degrees to violating the law. That's included in the law itself. Accidentally killing someone is not as bad as intentionally doing it. Going five miles over the speed limit is not as bad as going 50 miles over it.
What he did was illegal and so is going 30 in a 25 zone. I consider both to be equally "terrible", which is to say, not at all. |
24th May 2018, 02:46 PM | #90 |
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24th May 2018, 02:53 PM | #91 |
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24th May 2018, 03:00 PM | #92 |
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Sorry, but it didn't. Why do you keep ignoring what happened between when the officer told Brown to let him see his hands and when he was on the ground?
It's clear in the video that the officer told Brown to let him see his hands and Brown didn't comply. The same officer grabbed Brown by the right wrist, a second officer grabbed Brown by the left wrist and a third officer grabbed Brown in the bicep/tricep area. Brown resisted and got taken to the ground. He's the one who refused to take his own hands out of his pockets and then resisted when the cops tried to physically force him to.
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Brown escalated the situation when he refused a lawful order to remove his hands from his pockets, and then he escalated the situation again when he physically resisted the police from removing his hands, and then he escalated the situation again by resisting further and was forced to the ground. If you can't comprehend why it's so important for cops to be able to see a suspect's hands, watch the first 30 seconds of the video in my next post. |
24th May 2018, 03:01 PM | #93 | |||
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Why did the cops in this video need to see his hands? It was only a traffic stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JitD-ZAdt1E |
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24th May 2018, 03:03 PM | #94 |
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...I don't have a problem with the police checking this out initially. The way it was parked would be the way you would park if you wanted to make a "quick getaway." It was reasonable to investigate. And Sterling did push back at the start.
But once the situations de-escalated there was no reason why the officer couldn't have ended things relatively quickly. Was he robbing the store? There was nothing to suggest that he was. Was he parking illegally? Give him a ticket, or let him off with a gentle warning. That's the job. If this "pisses" the cops off and if the cop then the cop is in the wrong job. If cops choose to "chastise such a belligerent offender" over giving them a ticket and wishing them a "nice day" then they are in the wrong job. |
24th May 2018, 03:08 PM | #95 |
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24th May 2018, 03:09 PM | #96 |
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Why do you keep ignoring that it should never have gotten to the point where you think that police violence was suddenly justified. Write out the *********** ticket, hand it to the guy or leave it on the car, and then leave. Period. It was a parking violation, the sort of thing cities often hire unarmed civilians to handle, and it shouldn't require any interaction at all with the driver of a car; in fact, such interaction is undesirable.
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24th May 2018, 03:10 PM | #97 |
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My best estimation of the number of times I've been pulled over by police is between 70 and 80. I have never one time in all those interactions with law enforcement been forced to the ground and tasered. I attribute that to never once having disobeyed a lawful order and never once tried to push past a cop and ignore what they were telling me to do. |
24th May 2018, 03:12 PM | #98 |
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24th May 2018, 03:13 PM | #99 |
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24th May 2018, 03:13 PM | #100 |
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24th May 2018, 03:14 PM | #101 |
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24th May 2018, 03:16 PM | #102 |
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24th May 2018, 03:17 PM | #103 |
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I'm sure you think that is the answer.
Or it could be because police officers nationwide are trained keep the hands of anyone they are dealing with insight, despite the color of their skin, so they don't get shot, just like what happened in the video. Turns out small handguns are easy to conceal in jacket pockets. |
24th May 2018, 03:22 PM | #104 |
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24th May 2018, 03:24 PM | #105 |
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Yes, six units is overkill in my opinion. That is not the fault of the officer who asked for "a squad".
Videos like the one I posted before are used to train officers and reinforce the importance of keeping a suspects hands visible, the same way they use videos that show cops being killed by a suspects gun when they are not thoroughly patted down before being placed in a cruiser. I can understand why cops, dealing with an uncooperative suspect, might want him to take his hands out of his pockets. Watch the video. |
24th May 2018, 03:28 PM | #106 |
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Suspect? Suspect for what?
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24th May 2018, 03:37 PM | #107 |
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...sorry, but it did.
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My point is that the police didn't give a **** about his hands for five minutes. In the opening seconds of the video Brown had his hands in his pocket. They talk to him for minutes with his hands in his pockets. Then in a space of seconds they issued an order and when they didn't get complete compliance they took him down. There is a reason why the police got disciplined here. And it wasn't because of some fantasy SJW conspiracy. |
24th May 2018, 03:41 PM | #108 |
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That may have very well happened, but Brown made the choice to escalate the situation. As xjx388 asked earlier, why would a cop dick around with a parking violation at 2:00 a.m. when that is a common time for drunk drivers. I know this is hard to imagine but maybe the cop drove by and saw a car parked longways blocking to handicap parking spots and thought to himself 'that's not normal behavior, I bet the driver is drunk' and pulled in to investigate further. |
24th May 2018, 03:41 PM | #109 |
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That jumped out at me too. There wasn't a robbery, or a shooting. It was a parking violation, something that probably everyone has committed at some point. Why would the cop assume the guy has a weapon? Wouldn't that imply that everyone has hidden weapons, since everyone breaks those kinds of laws?
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24th May 2018, 03:42 PM | #110 |
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24th May 2018, 03:46 PM | #111 |
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24th May 2018, 03:47 PM | #112 |
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I'm curious about the meaning of a lawful order. If you parked your car illegally does that give a cop a right to prevent you from going home? If you are standing with your hands in your pockets in a non-threatening manner does that give a cop the right to demand to see your hands?
I didn't know that cops could just order people to do anything they like and if they refuse those people are to be subject to beatings. Maybe there's a distinction here that I'm not seeing. |
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24th May 2018, 03:47 PM | #113 |
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24th May 2018, 03:50 PM | #114 |
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24th May 2018, 03:50 PM | #115 |
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I think something is being missed in the business with showing the hands.
Nearly the first interaction with the police has a policeman conspicouously and egregiously accusing Brown of non co-operation when he asks a question and gets a clear answer. He is seen accusing him of aggressive behavior from the start. Given the situation, I think Brown had every reason to fear for his life. It's clear that the police were spoiling for a fight, and in a fight of this sort, people get killed. The cop asked for Brown to take his hands out of his pockets. He did not, saying he had something in his hand. At that point, the cops could have asked him what, and could have assured him that if he took his hands out of his pockets as requested they would not kill him. They could have ade clear whether or not Brown should have left the object in his pocket, or whether they would kill him for doing one thing or for doing exactly the opposite. The police have already demonstrated an outstandingly aggressive and irrational attitude. Their subsequent actions confirm it. Sure the likelihood that the cops were that awful and would murder Brown was fairly small, but I think it's smaller than the likelihood some are suggesting that he would murder them. I think they fabricated a confrontation by exercising excessive zeal and conspicuously refusing to explain themselves or to slow down. |
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24th May 2018, 03:59 PM | #116 |
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There you go again forgetting the part where Brown physically resisted the cops trying to remove his hands from his pocket. I think at this point you're just trolling, or just willfully ignorant by not watching the video in detail.
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24th May 2018, 04:08 PM | #117 |
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24th May 2018, 04:15 PM | #118 |
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What's this stolen vehicle thing Bogative is referring to? Did I miss that in the video?
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24th May 2018, 04:21 PM | #119 |
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Yes sir. I spent many years riding Japanese motorcycles on the street. One of my old motorcycles came from the manufacture with two headlights. When low beams were on only one headlight would come on, they used that as an excuse to stop me 40 to 50 on that motorcycle alone. Turns out cops know that it is very common for people who ride those types of motorcycles to be young, uninsured, and unlicensed. And they like to run from cops, occasionally. That's why they targeted me repeatedly.
I had my very own little procedure I went through every time I got stopped. Turn the motorcycle off, put the kickstand down and lean the motorcycle on it, place both feet on the foot pegs, remove my helmet, and place my hands on my hips. That way there would not be even a hint of misbehavior on my part, even before they got out of the car. I found that it actually put the cop at ease when they see you are more than willing to be fully compliant. I only had one really bad encounter with cops in the 15 years I rode on the street. A friend I was riding with through the main strip in the town I lived in popped a little wheelie to show ooff for some girls parked in a parking lot and a cop in an unmarked car saw it. He told usto the end of the street and pulled in front of us to block us in a parking lot. He then jumped out of his car and pulled his service weapon and stuck it right in my face because of something someone else did. Unfortunately, I didn't have a bunch of regressive cop haters come to my rescue because my skin is the wrong color. |
24th May 2018, 04:27 PM | #120 |
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...I haven't forgotten anything. If I tell you I'm going to the kitchen to make myself a sandwich, I don't need to tell you that I stretched my arms, yawned, pushed my chair out, pulled my socks up, opened the door, walked into the kitchen, surveyed the scene, opened up the drawer, pulled out a knife, grabbed the bread, sliced it thickly because I like thick bread, went to the fridge, grabbed the butter but then dropped the butter because it was hard then went to get the margarine. I slathered the margarine thickly before returning to the fridge to get the ham. I chose to use three slices of ham because I love ham. I pushed them all together, and then I ate it.
Telling you I'm going to the kitchen to make myself a sandwich will suffice. I've watched the video. I know what happened.
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If a tree falls in a forest and there is nobody to see it falling: did it make a noise? You appear to be arguing the tree falling did not make a noise.
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I didn't argue it was "okay to disobey lawful commands." Please try and follow along.
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So yay them?
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