IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 10th September 2022, 06:48 PM   #961
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 9,768
Originally Posted by Steersman View Post
LoL. I wonder if you bothered to note - in your cherry-picking - who the author was...
Naw it's just a bizarre coincidence that I replied with a link to a paper from the guy you were citing.

Originally Posted by Steersman View Post
Kinda think "could lead" is something of a hypothetical: IF a male had his nuts cut off THEN he would no longer be one ...
Jesuitical dissembling.

Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Nobody uses "Parker's definition" as defined by Steersman. Not even Parker, apparently. That's the point.
At least someone got it.
__________________
Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.

Last edited by d4m10n; 10th September 2022 at 06:55 PM.
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th September 2022, 07:14 PM   #962
Steersman
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Naw it's just a bizarre coincidence that I replied with a link to a paper from the guy you were citing.
Still didn't bother to read his Glossary.

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Jesuitical dissembling.
LoL. "No true Scotsman" ...

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
At least someone got it.
Don't think so. Neither of you have shown any evidence of either Parker or Lehtonen contradicting or repudiating the biological definitions.
Steersman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2022, 06:48 AM   #963
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 9,768
"blockage of his excurrent ducts"
__________________
Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2022, 01:43 PM   #964
Steersman
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
"blockage of his excurrent ducts"
So what?

Quote:
You use his to indicate that something belongs or relates to a man, boy, or male animal.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...ry/english/his

And most boys are prepubescent, not yet males.

You sure do seem rather desperate to hang onto prescientific conceptions & definitions. Almost like Galileo's contemporaries insisting on the geocentric model, like the religious fundamentalists of Darwin's time insisting on a 6000-year old earth or that humans hadn't evolved from apes ...
Steersman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2022, 05:01 AM   #965
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 9,768
Originally Posted by Steersman View Post
And most boys are prepubescent, not yet males.
And most pronouns refer back to earlier nouns.



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
__________________
Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2022, 02:35 PM   #966
Steersman
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
And most pronouns refer back to earlier nouns.
So? You say that like you've just said "God exists! (So there, Darwin & Dawkins!)"

You seem surprisingly reluctant to consider that there are some relevant rules and regulations to how and why we name and define categories.

You may wish to take a gander at this article, and a few relevant quotes:

Quote:
The social sciences are plagued with severe and unresolved problems of definition. .... Yet without workable definitions, science can make little progress. .... There is little recognition that several different types of definition have been identified in philosophy. .... Consider another type of definition. An intensional definition establishes the meaning of a term by specifying necessary and sufficient conditions for when the term should be used (Cook, Reference Cook and Cook2009). .... By contrast, the term extensional definition is used to refer to the listing of everything that falls under that definition.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...89FAC0D0FE49C8

And that intensional-extensional dichotomy, and the "necessary and sufficient conditions" associated with the former goes back a long ways - Aquinas if not earlier.

Quote:
Philosophers have long utilized (in the theory of definition and in other contexts) the concepts of extension and intension.
https://www.sfu.ca/~swartz/definitions.htm#part6

Don't think you're helping much by refusing to grapple with the details of that process.
Steersman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2022, 03:33 PM   #967
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 9,768
Originally Posted by Steersman View Post
So?
So "his" refers back to "male" in that sentence, which undercuts your argument from prepubescence.
__________________
Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.

Last edited by d4m10n; 12th September 2022 at 03:35 PM.
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2022, 03:50 PM   #968
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 28,593
Anyway, none of this helps solve my "creature that would rightfully be called a spider if only it hadn't lost one of its legs" conundrum. The bugger has hobbled off to some obscure spot in this living room, still unaware of what it should now be called. I think he/she/it is miffed. I'll just assume it's a male 'thingy' and call him Boris.

One of my tropical fish died the other day, but when I spotted the body I realised I couldn't call it a 'dead fish', as fish are vertebrates that swim around in water, breathe through gills, have scales, etc etc, and this specimen sure wasn't swimming or breathing, that's for sure. What to call it? Doris?
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2022, 04:28 PM   #969
Steersman
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
So "his" refers back to "male" in that sentence, which undercuts your argument from prepubescence.
Nope, sorry.
Steersman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2022, 04:41 PM   #970
Steersman
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Anyway, none of this helps solve my "creature that would rightfully be called a spider if only it hadn't lost one of its legs" conundrum. The bugger has hobbled off to some obscure spot in this living room, still unaware of what it should now be called. I think he/she/it is miffed. I'll just assume it's a male 'thingy' and call him Boris.
Think I've already answered that question - do pay attention there Double-Ooh Seven ...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=791

Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
One of my tropical fish died the other day, but when I spotted the body I realised I couldn't call it a 'dead fish', as fish are vertebrates that swim around in water, breathe through gills, have scales, etc etc, and this specimen sure wasn't swimming or breathing, that's for sure. What to call it? Doris?
Nominally speaking ...

Quote:
nominal (adjective): existing or being something in name or form only
nominal head of his party
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nominal
Steersman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2022, 02:33 AM   #971
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 28,593
Originally Posted by Steersman View Post
Think I've already answered that question - do pay attention there Double-Ooh Seven ...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=791

Nominally speaking ...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nominal
Do you realise you're switching definition systems from post to post, to suit the point that you're responding to?
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2022, 02:56 AM   #972
Steersman
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Do you realise you're switching definition systems from post to post, to suit the point that you're responding to?
How so? Show your work.

Think I've been pretty consistent, particularly about the definitions for the sexes and species - and necessary and sufficient conditions. Having 8 legs is NOT one of those conditions for the category "spider".
Attached Images
File Type: jpg And_then_a_miracle_happens_cartoon.jpg (44.2 KB, 2 views)
Steersman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2022, 03:20 AM   #973
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 28,593
Originally Posted by Steersman View Post
How so? Show your work.

Think I've been pretty consistent, particularly about the definitions for the sexes and species - and necessary and sufficient conditions. Having 8 legs is NOT one of those conditions for the category "spider".
"An eight-legged predatory arachnid with an unsegmented body consisting of a fused head and thorax and a rounded abdomen. Spiders have fangs which inject poison into their prey, and most kinds spin webs in which to capture insects."

There are other definitions available, but 8 legs is part of them all. It's one of the necessary conditions. My particular arachnid is still a spider, as it's "Of the class that ...". The missing leg is incidental, just as being pre-pubescent doesn't stop a boy being male, as he is "Of the class that ..."
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2022, 04:29 AM   #974
Rolfe
Adult human female
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 49,367
That's two threads now hopelessly derailed with this nonsense.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2022, 04:48 AM   #975
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 9,768
Originally Posted by Steersman View Post
Nope, sorry.
Let's review.

Quote:
...secondary aggregation is probably beneficial since release of the sperm apical hook (necessary for aggregation) within the male could lead to blockage of his excurrent ducts, with resultant infertility.
You argued that "his" could refer to a prepubesecent boy (and it can) but that argument doesn't work here since the pronoun refers back to a specific noun and that noun picks out a mature male who produces sperm.

In the event his excurrent ducts are blocked, Parker still calls this individual "male." Not sure what pronoun you'd use, since we don't have one for sexless mammals.
__________________
Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.

Last edited by d4m10n; 13th September 2022 at 04:53 AM.
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2022, 06:20 PM   #976
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 18,330
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Anyway, none of this helps solve my "creature that would rightfully be called a spider if only it hadn't lost one of its legs" conundrum. The bugger has hobbled off to some obscure spot in this living room, still unaware of what it should now be called. I think he/she/it is miffed. I'll just assume it's a male 'thingy' and call him Boris.

One of my tropical fish died the other day, but when I spotted the body I realised I couldn't call it a 'dead fish', as fish are vertebrates that swim around in water, breathe through gills, have scales, etc etc, and this specimen sure wasn't swimming or breathing, that's for sure. What to call it? Doris?
I love this post.
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:18 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.