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Tags auras , hallucinations

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Old 21st December 2017, 12:04 AM   #281
Pixel42
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There has been talk of lots of things for centuries which, when the scientific method was finally invented and they could be properly investigated, turned out to be mistaken. Astrology, chi, chakras, telepathy ... these are all ideas that turned out to be wrong. The people who still believe in such things are not lying, they are mistaken. They have failed to educate themselves by learning what science has discovered about these supposed phenomena, preferring to remain ignorant so that they can continue to believe.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pineal_gland
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Old 21st December 2017, 12:10 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I did look at other resources and they said pretty much the same things. Increased intuition, seeing auras, psychometry (the ability to see the history of an object in your mind's eye by holding it), and other things.
I think the question was asking what scientific resources you consulted. If you only consulted crackpots of course you will get plenty of confirmation of the crackpot ideas. The rationalwiki article I just linked gives several scientific references, try reading a few of them.
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Old 21st December 2017, 03:51 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
(How) did they demonstrate it? They did not demonstrate it if by demonstrate you mean prove, however, as I said in the previous answer they have given reason to believe. The school itself did not give testimony but told you what you could expect and said as proof to just do the practice and look for a sensation that should happen if you do it correctly, which, I know, could be the power of suggestion. As for now, I figure I'll just try it out and see what happens as that would probably be the best way to find out if something would happen.
If they really could open a third eye and see whatever it is they claim to be able to see, they would not hesitate to offer up proof.

Imagine two places that claimed to teach you to see auras. One of these tells you to pay first, then practice, and see if anything happens. The other has you stand behind a short wall to demonstrate they can locate you just by seeing you aura poking over the top. Which would get your business?

The reason the people you pay don't offer proof their techniques work is because they can't.
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Old 21st December 2017, 05:37 PM   #284
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post
The reason the people you pay don't offer proof their techniques work is because they can't.

Quoted for truth.

Except for my method where you send me fifty pounds a week and I'll open your third eye for you. It will definately work, but it may take a few months so you have to keep at it. However there are signs that will let you know it's working, the first is the self satisfaction you'll feel from making me fifty quid a week happier, you may even feel waves of satisfaction emanating from me (I know that could be the power of suggestion), but you'll also feel a definate lightness in your bank balance. How much more demonstration do you need?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 09:28 AM   #285
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WONDER234- How much have you paid to learn these techniques?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:49 AM   #286
TheSapient
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Quoted for truth.

Except for my method where you send me fifty pounds a week and I'll open your third eye for you. It will definately work, but it may take a few months so you have to keep at it. However there are signs that will let you know it's working, the first is the self satisfaction you'll feel from making me fifty quid a week happier, you may even feel waves of satisfaction emanating from me (I know that could be the power of suggestion), but you'll also feel a definate lightness in your bank balance. How much more demonstration do you need?
Who cares about a third eye? Send me $1,000, and I will teach you how to get any car you want - through the power of your third ear. It may or may not work for you, but if you are hearing what sounds like cars going by, you are on the right track! It totally worked for me. I mean, I can't show you the car, or me getting a car, but it totally works.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 11:29 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post
Who cares about a third eye? Send me $1,000, and I will teach you how to get any car you want - through the power of your third ear. It may or may not work for you, but if you are hearing what sounds like cars going by, you are on the right track! It totally worked for me. I mean, I can't show you the car, or me getting a car, but it totally works.
Once you have a few takers I firmly believe that you will be able to show you getting a car!
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Old 24th December 2017, 05:52 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
WONDER234- How much have you paid to learn these techniques?
Still wondering?
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Old 25th December 2017, 03:16 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
WONDER234- How much have you paid to learn these techniques?
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Still wondering?
Tumbleweed, crickets, but no answer forthcoming...
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Old 25th December 2017, 04:01 PM   #290
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Wonder234,

Here is a summary of (my understanding of) your response. The numbers refer to your answers to my questions. If I got it wrong, please correct me.

1. Through an interest in philosophy and other topics you became interested in the topic of third-eye sight, etc. You continued reading about, and eventually found an esoteric school and signed up for a course or for instruction. That school described how to open a third eye and how to see auras. (I think both of these were in the same school.)

2. What I get from your answer is that no one actually said "Wonder234, this works!" They said, "Try it and see for yourself." So you started to think that maybe there was some truth to what they were saying, not necessarily paranormal events, but "interesting experiences," as you put it.

3. They didn't prove the third eye exists, but they did tell you what to expect. You tried it and you did experience what they said you would. Up to this point, we have a well-described sequence of events, experiences, and reactions on your part.

Here is where it gets tricky, or maybe sticky.

Some things are easy to believe, to accept, to prove. I throw a rock at you, it hits you, you get a bruise. If someone says that this didn't happen, you can point to the bruise. If they say that it wasn't a rock, you can show them the rock. If they say that xterra didn't throw it ... well that is a bit more difficult to prove, but not impossible. Your friends all saw me throw it and are willing to back you up. Even my friends who saw it will admit that I threw the rock. And furthermore, there is a cell-phone video. (Isn't there always?)

So, no matter how much I deny throwing the rock, there is clear evidence that I did throw it.

Similarly, if you believe you can fly (and I'm not suggesting that you do believe this), and you jump from the top of a cliff and flap your arms ... oops.

But wait, does this prove that other people can't? By itself, no. However, if we think about how many people have existed and now exist, and how many opportunities there are and were for people to attempt to fly by flapping of arms, and how many have actually flown, what conclusion do we reach?

Either (A) people can't fly, which can be explained by all that we know about aerodynamics and lift and so on; or (B) so far, no one has yet been able to -- but maybe the next person will.

At what point do we say that the weight of evidence falls on the A side of that balance, and that it is foolish to believe that the next person will succeed?

---

Those two examples deal with objective reality. But your experience deals with subjective reality, as does the claim of everyone who asserts the existence of auras, third-eye visions, chakras, etc. Neither I nor anyone else can prove that people's honestly-described subjective experiences are anything except what they say the experiences are.

Just because you see an aura, that is not proof that auras exist independent of your vision of them. They could be induced by what you expect (see above), they could be induced by drugs that you don't know you've been exposed to, they could be induced by hypnosis, by ... lots of things.

It is probable that if you continue to believe that auras and third eyes and so on exist and that people can use them or see them, you won't be harmed or helped by this knowledge. You will continue to eat breakfast, watch television, go to work, raise a family, and so on.

4. The other sources: As you said, they were all from the "this stuff is real and really works" category. And with all of them saying the same thing, you saw no reason to doubt that there was something to all this, that it is real.

But after you hear so many people here telling you that there isn't anything to all this, and providing reasons and links to explanations, would it be reasonable in this situation to look at the evidence from the other side, the "nope, no third eye, no auras, no spirits" side?


xterra


PS Hey, Denyer, keep digging!!
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Old 25th December 2017, 06:30 PM   #291
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No gold yet. But a shortcut to pick up great takeaway!
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Old 25th December 2017, 10:14 PM   #292
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What people can do is amazing:

http://www.bigwell.org/history
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Old 26th December 2017, 11:49 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I think the question was asking what scientific resources you consulted. If you only consulted crackpots of course you will get plenty of confirmation of the crackpot ideas. The rationalwiki article I just linked gives several scientific references, try reading a few of them.
I meant to respond to this shortly after you posted it; sorry for the delay.

I wanted to know if Wonder234 had consulted any resources other than the people at the school. I wasn't asking about only scientific resources.
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Old 26th December 2017, 01:07 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
The scenario is this:

I do a practice that is intended to "open" my third eye. The practice is chanting the sound OM for 10 minutes a day, twice a day. I do the practice for a couple of weeks, and eventually something happens, you can call it my third eye opening just for the sake of argument. All of a sudden I see what looks like auras, see what looks like ghosts, and feel what seems to be other people's emotions. What would you, if you are a materialist, say about this as a materialist? And for the sake of the thread we'll just say a materialist is someone who believes that there are no supernatural entities.
Evil materialist answer (maybe someone already did this, I haven't read the whole thread):

If you are daft enough to sit and say OM for ten minutes twice a day for several weeks, you are daft enough to imagine anything.

.... There, some hadda say it.

Hans
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Old 27th December 2017, 08:02 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post
If they really could open a third eye and see whatever it is they claim to be able to see, they would not hesitate to offer up proof.
This, but also: I could make money off of these abilities. We live in a very driven, capitalist world where abilities that can make money are valued and used to make as much money as possible. If these things were real, they would be successfully employed in a number of industries. Companies would have programs to get their employees' third eyes opened. I would have to put it on my resume as a skill if I wanted to get a good job (this isn't a joke, my specific job would for sure be looking for people that could see auras).

As always, there's an XKCD for this argument as well.

Originally Posted by TheSapient View Post
Send me $1,000, and I will teach you how to get any car you want - through the power of your third ear.
Surrounded by cars. Cannot leave house. Please advise how to close third ear.
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Old 27th December 2017, 08:12 AM   #296
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
Surrounded by cars. Cannot leave house. Please advise how to close third ear.
That's a separate course, $10,000.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:00 AM   #297
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Hmm. Just read the first page so far. OP:

Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
All of a sudden I see what looks like auras, see what looks like ghosts, and feel what seems to be other people's emotions.
Bottom of page.

Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
As of now I can't perceive auras, opening my third eye may allow me to see auras, but different people get different results, however there may be a good chance of seeing auras.
This does not bode well for the thread, I feel. It certainly doesn't bode well for getting Wonder234 to agree to an empirical test, since it took less than a page for him/her to walk back his/her claim almost completely.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:58 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
That doesn't follow because it takes training to open the third eye. It isn't just open from the get go.
It takes training to walk and speak. Most people seem to manage when they're old enough and have had the training and practice.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:06 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Hmm. Just read the first page so far. OP:



Bottom of page.



This does not bode well for the thread, I feel. It certainly doesn't bode well for getting Wonder234 to agree to an empirical test, since it took less than a page for him/her to walk back his/her claim almost completely.
Meet the new wunderkinder, same as the old wunderkinder.
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