|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
14th March 2018, 06:05 AM | #121 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
The rational explanation may simply be that the recalled events tend to be about trivial matters, and statistically some people will have the same misrememberings. I thought Mandela had died, remember a coming attraction poster for the movie Shazam featuring Sinbad, and thought Thanksgiving was on the third Thursday. I have thousands of other memories, accurate and not, that do not overlap with other peoples' recollections. The odds are that a lot of people will remember a few things wrong in the same way.
|
14th March 2018, 07:03 AM | #122 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
But really, the main example of the Mandela Effect is the girl from Moonraker, who fell in love at first sight with JAWS (Richard Kiel) had braces on when I saw it at the movies.
Now... I can find no evidence of those braces. It really is baffling, because I remember her smiling, and he smiled back, and the fact that they both had metal appliances on their teeth was why they fell in love. It's not on any copies of the film available. |
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
14th March 2018, 07:16 AM | #123 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
14th March 2018, 07:23 AM | #124 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
|
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
14th March 2018, 07:23 AM | #125 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
|
14th March 2018, 07:24 AM | #126 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
|
14th March 2018, 07:33 AM | #127 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,661
|
My mandela effect,
Vague memories of shazam starring sinbad Scientist predicting Global cooling in the 70s I specifically remember the series finale of James Burke's The Day the Universe changed ending with such a prediction which appears to be totally false. |
14th March 2018, 07:35 AM | #128 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
|
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
14th March 2018, 07:43 AM | #129 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
|
14th March 2018, 07:44 AM | #130 |
Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 159
|
But they would say its a proof for ME.
"without being an actual Mandela Effect itself this advert might be one of the strongest proofs we have of the Mandela Effect. If Dolly never had braces in the movie Moonraker then this advert would make absolutely no sense at all. Anyone saying that we just have a false memory of Dolly wearing braces need only be referred to this commercial." |
14th March 2018, 07:45 AM | #131 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
14th March 2018, 07:49 AM | #132 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 5,229
|
|
14th March 2018, 07:51 AM | #133 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,950
|
I can think of two explanations off the top of my head that are more likely than "parallel worlds are colliding and the main effect is people appearing to misremember pop culturual trivia"
1: They just added the braces as a little visual reference to the Jaws character and did not intend to reference any particular scene or interaction from Moonraker. Notice that Kiel doesn't even see her braces, and does not fall in love with her. He just smiles a lot, pays and leaves. Then she smiles and we, the audience, see her braces. 2: The people from the add agency also misremembered the scene. |
14th March 2018, 07:53 AM | #134 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
Adding some more zooms and gifs to the question here:
http://dolly.barriereader.co.uk/dolly.html |
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
14th March 2018, 07:53 AM | #135 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
|
14th March 2018, 08:09 AM | #136 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
In my opinion, the commercial wasn't produced that way because they were aware of a "Mandela Effect" happening throughout the population.
|
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
14th March 2018, 08:09 AM | #137 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
Do you think it was produced because the directors remembered it that way, themselves?
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
14th March 2018, 08:15 AM | #138 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
|
14th March 2018, 08:18 AM | #139 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
No. I think that they wanted to create a reference to Jaws in a funny way.
I believe that that commercial predates the Internet and predates the (now) widespread realization that there is a Jaws Mandela Effect phenomenon. For some people, that commercial could cause the JME when they didn't actually have it prior. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
14th March 2018, 08:23 AM | #140 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
Another possibility is that the commercial producers did not suffer from the ME nor did they think that others suffered from it, but...
They felt that Moonraker would have been so much more cool and funny if Dolly had had braces. IOW, not remembering her with braces, but instead realizing that she would have been better with braces. So they gave them to "her" in their commercial. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
14th March 2018, 09:28 AM | #141 |
I say nay!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,892
|
Among many things, claims
Quote:
The 'Orange' middle cube in shadow is the same color as the brown middle cube on top. However, I ask the following; Which is more probable? You and "80%" of 'Moonraker' fans quantum leaped into this braceless universe OR You're simply misremembering a single scene from a film over 30 years old? |
__________________
Memento Mori |
|
14th March 2018, 09:39 AM | #142 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
The most logical explanation is that we all hallucinated that braces on Dolly would have been a better connection, so it became part of our memory, simply because the directors SHOULD have put braces on her.
Although, for people to remember actually consciously thinking about the braces connection while watching the movie, adds a thought-conscious level that most ME do not include. |
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
14th March 2018, 09:42 AM | #143 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
14th March 2018, 09:45 AM | #144 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
There are probably many people who saw Moonraker on television and have no clue if Dolly had braces or not because of the crappy resolution. The quality of television imagery was really bad and still true even if you rented it on VHS.
The images in the link are 1080 (probably from Blu-ray) and might even have better definition than if you had watched it on the big screen in the theater. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
14th March 2018, 09:53 AM | #145 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
Another issue with trying to get a handle on this ME thing is this: If it's possible to have an incorrect memory, then it's also possible to have an incorrect memory of a memory.
IOW, you can now think that you always thought or "knew" that Dolly has braces - but you really didn't. And once you are informed that it's a common ME then you suddenly and falsely believe that it always did effect you too. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
14th March 2018, 10:19 AM | #146 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
|
14th March 2018, 10:22 AM | #147 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,537
|
The Mandela Effect is not all that different from quantum immortality, which is taken seriously by some very smart people, like Max Tegmark.
Perhaps the people who remember "Berenstein Bears" (and I am one of them), died in some universe and the one that branched off had subtle differences. |
14th March 2018, 10:26 AM | #148 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,903
|
Sometimes stupid ideas are held by smart people. I don't know what quantum immortality is, but The Mandela Effect is a stupid idea.
|
14th March 2018, 10:31 AM | #149 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
It is a glitch in the programming of the simulation that we are living in!!
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
14th March 2018, 10:32 AM | #150 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
It's the idea that, in some alternative universe, you never die. Basically, an evidenceless assertion of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Basically, an extension (QI) of an opinion (many worlds) about an aspect (superpositions and waveform collapse) of an actual scientific theory (quantum mechanics).
As we all know, QM is the Kevin Bacon of scientific theories. If you can draw the connection through enough steps, it must be true. Still not the same, though. QI specifically precludes the idea that any information can cross over the barriers between worlds. And, considering we already have abundant evidence of the fallible and mutable nature of memory, as well as how it's shaped by shared discussion with others (think repressed memory recovery writ large), positing ME as an explanation for these little inconsistencies is like positing leprechauns as the cause of the missing socks in your dryer. |
14th March 2018, 10:32 AM | #151 |
I say nay!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,892
|
|
__________________
Memento Mori |
|
14th March 2018, 10:36 AM | #152 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,903
|
Where did the figure of '80 percent' come from? Were people polled about the subject? I don't believe it for a second.
80% of people in general remember it that way? Doubtful as I doubt 80% of people are even aware of the movie. 80% of people who are aware of the film remember it that way? 80% of people who are fans of the film remember it that way? Do 80% of people when told to write down the name of the movie "They Live" include an exclamation mark? If shown a mocked up poster with an exclamation mark in it, do 80% of people not notice there's anything wrong? If asked if "They Live!" is the correct name of the movie, do 80% of people not identify what's wrong? If asked if there's an exclamation mark in the title, do 80% of people agree that there is? I wouldn't be surprised at this at all, as it's clearly a loaded question prompting people what to think, and the movie title is in fact an exclamation, so an exclamation mark at the end wouldn't be out of place? Is the 80% figure simply something you've come up with based upon an informal poll of people you know?
Quote:
|
14th March 2018, 10:57 AM | #153 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,537
|
|
14th March 2018, 11:02 AM | #154 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,661
|
I am endlessly fascinated by the Mandela Effect. It should prompt people to go, "Hell, its crazy what tricks memory can play?" Instead, in some folks it prompts, "Hell, I must come from a different universe!" Seriously, whether there's a "!" at the end of a movie title is some inexplicable phenomenon rather than a fault of memory? Why is it so hard to except that memory sucks?
|
14th March 2018, 11:03 AM | #155 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,537
|
|
14th March 2018, 11:04 AM | #156 |
Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 159
|
|
14th March 2018, 11:12 AM | #157 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
NoTM
That's not a current scientific theory or law. That's not even current scientific hypothesis. At least, not in the way you're interpreting it. The current many-universes idea isn't about quantum events, but about the effects of the inflation period after the big bang. And in that, the universes are separate from each other and, by definition, can have no interaction. It's something that, by it's very nature, can't even be tested. The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is not even a theory or hypothesis at all, but an interpretation...akin to a thought experiment, and isn't generally accepted except among those who aren't in the field. In QM, if the math doesn't show it, it's not part of the theory. None of the math shows a many-worlds interpretation on the macro level like you've suggested. Even on the micro level, it's suppositional, not proven by any means. In any case, you're going past actual QM, through an interpretation, on to an opinion based on that. At best you're two steps removed from any testable, provable science. It's leprechauns. |
14th March 2018, 11:21 AM | #158 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
14th March 2018, 11:33 AM | #159 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
|
14th March 2018, 11:37 AM | #160 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,661
|
Probably because they live in a world where some people think a faulty memory of a movie title proves the existence of an alternate universe rather than proving faulty human memory.
Just spit balling. Seriously though, isn't it more likely that people are conflating "Them!" with "They Live"? Or any number of other moves who's title end in "!" |
Thread Tools | |
|
|