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19th March 2010, 08:46 AM | #641 |
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"The only thing you can do easily is be wrong, and that's hardly worth the effort." - Norton Juster, The Phantom Tollbooth |
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19th March 2010, 08:49 AM | #642 |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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19th March 2010, 09:05 AM | #643 |
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Questions about Roger Patterson for PGF supporters that do not fear to answer them...
1) Would you consider Roger Patterson to have been an honest man? Yes or no. 2) Did Roger Patterson ever swindle people for money, goods and services? Yes or no. 3) Was Roger Patterson an extremely intelligent person, an amateur inventor who claimed the invention of such items as the plastic bread bag clip, a gifted artist with keen attention to anatomical detail, a sculptor, a carver and extremely technically savvy? Yes or no. 4) Did Roger Patterson abhor regular employment and constantly scheme ways in which to become rich with relatively little effort? Yes or no. 5) Was Roger Patterson obsessed with Bigfoot and proving its existence to people to the complete abandonment of all else? Yes or no. 6) Did Roger Patterson claim encounters with Bigfoot in his home area where people had previously made no such claims? Yes or no. 7) Did Roger Patterson claim that he was going to Bluff Creek to film a real Bigfoot and get rich? Yes or no. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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19th March 2010, 09:12 AM | #644 |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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19th March 2010, 09:40 AM | #645 |
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What numbers? Sweaty's hackneyed numbers with 2D scribbles on images of 3D objects? LOL
A picture is worth a thousand scribbles... And that's without Bob wearing shoulder pads, a head piece, and slouching over. Game over. Bye bye, elbow reach poo poo.
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How much simpler can it be than for say, Drew, to show you how the method is flawed, or for me to show you unequivocably that Patty possesses human proportions and could be Bob in a suit? You don't need to answer. That's the one, two knockout on refuting you and your worthless scribbles Dude, you've been skeptically powned. And by coloured lines and an overlay, no less! |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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19th March 2010, 09:45 AM | #646 |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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19th March 2010, 10:45 AM | #647 |
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I agree with you, William, that people can be dishonest. But, based on Joyce's phone call to me...I put a lot of weight in her report. You don't have to put any weight in it...(it doesn't matter to me)...but I'd bet you money that if you talked to her in person, you'd have a lot more trouble calling her, her daughter and her husband all liars...right to their faces......or, even thinking, with 100% certainty, that they're lying. |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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19th March 2010, 10:48 AM | #648 |
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Still can't do anything about the elbow-reach measurements, can you, kitakaze? |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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19th March 2010, 10:52 AM | #649 |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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19th March 2010, 10:59 AM | #650 |
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kitakaze's image overlays aren't as precise and accurate as the other images I'ved used, to make measurements with. kitakaze relies on the fuzziest images available, to make his judgements....because that's how he can present a slightly, subtley distorted version of 'reality'. I'll show why those overlays aren't as meaningful as he's proposing they are, when I have the time to get to it. |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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19th March 2010, 11:09 AM | #651 |
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Just did. Game over. You lose. Bye bye.
ETA: What am I thinking? This is going to be delicious... The overlay TRUMPS all of your gobbledy-gook, posted above. Sorry. BY DA WAY....... I see you still can't SHOW where, and to what extent, there are any errors in the Heironimus overlay showing he could fit Patty, or in the Chabal overlay showing Patty does not have inhuman proportions. Keep up the good work, Sweaty! Ooo.. That felt good. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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19th March 2010, 11:17 AM | #652 |
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Lies. I used the exact same image Sweaty used to make measurements with. See, here it is... It's that left one Sweaty is making precise measurements on. LOL Thanks for that, Sweaty! Look at him go. He's in a panic now. Gobbledy-gook elbow reach all blowed up. Enjoy your day freaking out over your sunken battleship. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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19th March 2010, 11:22 AM | #653 |
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The thing about calling someone a liar or challenging someone to do that is that it pushes the issue into another social realm and can be used to manipulate someone into saying "no" when they normally would not. The "accusation of lying" card can be dealt and might be used to intimidate the person into thinking the next thing that happens is a broken nose. And many people might say that a broken nose is certainly a logical possible outcome after calling somebody a liar. I think some Bigfooters do use the "accused liar card" in this way. It almost invariably causes the other person to say "no" which can then easily be worked to the advantage of the claimant (even if they actually are lying). My preference in response to the liar card would go like this... Bigfooter claiming undeniable visual encounter: Are you calling me a liar? Parcher: There is simply no way of knowing that you are telling the truth and that your testimony is factual. No, I'm not calling you a liar. I'm saying you can't prove your honesty even if you are telling the truth and it is a fact that you saw a Bigfoot. |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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19th March 2010, 11:26 AM | #654 |
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I'll call Joyce and her husband James. I like investigative stuff like this. They have a place in East Greenbush and another in West Sand Lake. I bet they're really nice. I'll see if I can talk to their daughter, as well. She's about 43 now.
I certainly won't be calling anyone a liar, but I will be mindful of other scenarios. How's that sound, Sweaty? Someone who isn't a creduloid checking out the story. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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19th March 2010, 11:27 AM | #655 |
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You underestimate the solidity of my skeptical position on Bigfoot. I would gladly look that whole family in the eyes and tell them that Bigfoot does not exist. Nobody, no matter how convincing they may be, is going to talk me into thinking that Bigfoot exists. If Bigfoot existed we would have had a piece of its flesh a LONG TIME AGO! |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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19th March 2010, 12:06 PM | #656 |
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19th March 2010, 12:38 PM | #657 |
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Are they trying to put that guy out with a flamethrower?
RayG |
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20th March 2010, 12:49 AM | #658 |
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20th March 2010, 07:18 AM | #659 |
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What you just said, William, is what skeptics typically...and almost ALWAYS say, regarding the evidence for Bigfoot...(in this case, 'eyewitness testimony'.) They discuss it in terms of "Proof"....rather than in terms of 'Probabilities". I agree with you that someone simply saying they saw a Bigfoot doesn't rise to the level of HARD, undeniable Proof of it's existence. But despite that fact, an eyewitness testimony can still carry weight....in that it creates a 'degree-of-probability'....a 'chance'....that that person may have seen one. The actual truth, in cases where 'probabilities' are concerned....is an un-known. (Hence, the use of the words 'may have'.) If someone actually does see a Bigfoot, it can only be 'Proof' for that particular individual......it's 'non-transferable' proof.
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I don't think I underestimate it....I know that you give Bigfoot's existence a 0% probability.....or, perhaps, a 'one-in-a-gazillion' chance/probability. But it's a 2-sided (Bigfoot) coin.......it's possible that Joyce may be just as solid in her position, as you are, in yours.
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That's fine by me....there is no 'Belief War' to be won, regarding Bigfoot's existence. There's ONLY a mystery which needs to be solved. And that's THE reason why I continue analysing the PG Film....to try to solve this one Bigfoot-related mystery. Fortunately.......kitakaze is helping to solve it...with his use of the FUZZIEST images available! I'll deal with his garbage, tomorrow. |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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20th March 2010, 08:22 AM | #660 |
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Hey, that's great, Sweaty. How about we make a thread where I phone Joyce, James and their daughter myself and interview them as someone who is not a Bigfoot creduloid?
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LOL. I use your clearest image and you call it my fuzziest! Too much fun! I have annihilated the flail of Sweaty. Once again for joy... The overlay TRUMPS all of your gobbledy-gook, posted above. Sorry. BY DA WAY....... I see you still can't SHOW where, and to what extent, there are any errors in the Heironimus overlay showing he could fit Patty, or in the Chabal overlay showing Patty does not have inhuman proportions. Keep up the good work, Sweaty! I love it. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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20th March 2010, 09:12 AM | #661 |
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Yup. That's what you use, kitakaze....the fuzziest images of Patty....in your relentless pursuit of the Truth! I'll deal with the rest of your garbage tomorrow. |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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20th March 2010, 05:08 PM | #662 |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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20th March 2010, 07:17 PM | #663 |
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MORE KITAKAZE KRAP....... kitakaze's overlay DOES NOT SHOW how Bob's elbow-reach compares to Patty's elbow-reach. This comparison DOES SHOW how they compare... When the elbow positions are measured, in both the horizontal direction...and in the vertical direction...(the vertical length from the 'subject's eyes to the elbow-joint', determined, in large part, by the length of the subject's upper-arm bone)....the numbers show that Bob's elbows do not....and can not...reach as far away from the backbone, and, as far down from the level of the eyes...at the same time...as Patty's can. The numbers in the white boxes are the 'total pixels', from adding the vertical and the horizontal measurements. Bob....as always....comes up "a day late, and an 'elbow-reach' short". I have already made graphics which show these measurements, a little more clearly....using sharper images.......the sharper, more accurate images that kitakaze can't deal with.... ......or use. kitakaze has learned a new game to play here....the "Parrot Game"...
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The funny thing about it is, though, is that while kitakaze can parrot my statements to him...in this particular case, his comparison doesn't even show what he's claiming it shows, in the first place. It doesn't SHOW anything about Patty's elbow position/reach.....so how could it possibly show that Bob's elbows "FIT PATTY"????????? |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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20th March 2010, 07:20 PM | #664 |
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
I enjoyed showing your overlay to be a complete piece of krap. |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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20th March 2010, 09:12 PM | #665 |
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Bobby next to Patty...with Patty's width increased, to correct for the approx. 40-deg. angle-of-view...
Now....here is what you should do, kitakaze.....go see Bob, and take as many pictures of him that you like....dress him up....PAD him up...any way that you like....and, in a MILLION blessed years, you will NEVER produce a picture of him, that can replicate the elbow-reach that we see in this picture of Patty. The great thing about this challenge, kitakaze...is that you can't BULL-KRAP your way through it! GOOD LUCK, Champ!!! |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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20th March 2010, 11:20 PM | #666 |
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Oops for you, Sweaty. Nice arbitrary scribbles, but uh-oh, you forgot to account for a head piece, great big shoulder pads and Bob slouching over in the suit. Awww... better luck next time. Aaand...
The overlay TRUMPS all of your gobbledy-gook, posted above. Sorry. BY DA WAY....... I see you still can't SHOW where, and to what extent, there are any errors in the Heironimus overlay showing he could fit Patty, or in the Chabal overlay showing Patty does not have inhuman proportions. Keep up the good work, Sweaty! Woooo! This is fun! ETA: New game? LOL What are you talking about? Using Sweaty against Sweaty is nothing new. And as long as you're around, I never get tired of it. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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21st March 2010, 06:06 AM | #667 |
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Normal in a weird way. |
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21st March 2010, 06:37 AM | #668 |
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
BY DA WAY...... Here is what you should do, kitakaze.....go see Bob, and take as many pictures of him that you like....dress him up....PAD him up...any way that you like....and, in a MILLION blessed years, you will NEVER produce a picture of him, that can replicate the elbow-reach that we see in this picture of Patty. The great thing about this challenge, kitakaze...is that you can't BULL-KRAP your way through it! GOOD LUCK, Champ!!! |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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21st March 2010, 06:47 AM | #669 |
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The significant difference between my claim/challenge that kitakaze "cannot show specifically where, and to what extent, there are any significant errors in the measurements, in my graphics"....and his Parroting of my claim, back to me.....is simply a matter of SHOWING vs. SAYING.
That is where the significant difference is. kitakaze SAYS "Bob fits Patty"...which includes his elbows, and elbow-reach....but his graphic doesn't even SHOW where Patty's elbows are located...and, therefore, doesn't SHOW anything about whether the elbow-reaches match, or fit. kitakaze then SAYS the measurements in my latest graphic are...
Quote:
...but does not, and can not, SHOW specifically where, and to what extent, there are any significant errors in them. It's a matter of SHOW....and SAYS. kitakaze can SHOW nothing. |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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21st March 2010, 06:53 AM | #670 |
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You forgot to account for a head piece, great big shoulder pads and Bob slouching over in the suit. Thus, everything you posted is meaningless. Try factoring that in and you'll see what I mean.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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21st March 2010, 06:57 AM | #671 |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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21st March 2010, 07:45 AM | #672 |
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Those are irrelevant to the reach of the elbows.
Quote:
I did...in the graphic with Patty's width stretched, next to Bob....I scaled Bob larger than Patty, to account for Patty's leaning forward. Her elbow reach is still clearly beyond Bob's. (I didn't show it, with numbers...in this case...only because it is SO obvious....but I can, and will, later.) Try to pay closer attention, there, Chief!
Quote:
Everything you SAY is meaningless. |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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21st March 2010, 07:47 AM | #673 |
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Tell ya what. I'll hold my tongue as long as you stick to facts. -------------------- Scrutatio Et Quaestio |
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21st March 2010, 08:13 AM | #674 | |||
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Actually, you know what, GT? I have to thank you for that nudge, man. I think you've pointed out what has to be one of my biggest flaws on this forum. It's not just the making copypasta of Sweaty's rainbow rambles. I really need to admit it. I provoke Sweaty way, way too much. Everybody else either has him on ignore or just doesn't bother wasting time addressing him. I should be listening to what people like you, Ray, River, Wolftrax, learner, Vort, The Shrike, Óðinn, Correa, LTC, tsig and many, many other people have made clear - SweatyYeti's posts are little more than unwanted eyesores. I think it was Óðinn or Wolf that made the point that if it wasn't for all the banter with Sweaty, the thread would be a goldmine of education.
Looking back over the pages, how many technicolour rants have I incited because I enjoyed playing with the woo far too much? How much better would this thread be if I didn't encourage Sweaty? I know I say the reason I do that is simply to counter all the misinformation and gobbledy-gook Sweaty throws up, but really, seriously, other than me, who even cares? All Sweaty's scribbles and comparisons have no impact on anything at all, other than making this thread a chore for regular, rational people who communicate in an adult manner. Seriously, what was I thinking? Sweaty can scribble till he's blue in the face and it never has and never will make a single iota of difference conerning the validity of the PGF or Bigfoot's existence in general. Also, my antagonism is keeping Sweaty away from the only people who care anything about what he posts. It's been like, two months since Sweaty's posted in his Patty/Bob thread at the SFB. He needs to be back in the wild with his own kind. This is an unnatural environment for him. Gets him all worked up. OK, first, my apologies to my fellow forum members for the years of contributing to the noise ratio with my habit engaging Sweaty. Second, I, kitakaze, hereby surrender my troll poker, and resolve to no longer get into long, pointless, tiresome, endless bouts with SweatyYeti. I'm off the crack. I'll get on the patch, or something. Sweaty, it's about that time. The game is yours. You can say I gave up or ran away or whatever. You can say JREF scoftics can't handle the truth via Sweaty all you like. As much fun as it's been kicking it around with you the last three and a half years, I got to love my home. I feel like I've been putting up "grafitti is for losers" signs in my neighbourhood only to make the taggers go nuts. I should have done this long ago, but you are now my second on my ignore list. Every minute I spend responding to your posts, is a minute lost dealing with the actually important things I have to do here. Good luck with the whole Bigfoot/UFO/Mars civilization thing, old boy. Here's the most visually and sonically appropriate sayonara I can give you...
Trippy. Ciao, Sweaty! |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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21st March 2010, 08:17 AM | #675 | |||
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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21st March 2010, 10:55 AM | #676 |
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21st March 2010, 05:13 PM | #677 |
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Good for you Kit!
Now for my first ignore, Its all about Fonts and colours. Sweaty on ignore..3 2 1.. gone. |
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21st March 2010, 09:54 PM | #678 |
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I see you're playing stupid again, looks like you're winning |
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22nd March 2010, 09:28 AM | #679 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,548
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That's it, K!
Let da trollz starve! |
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Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me: Together we can find the cure Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too… |
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22nd March 2010, 06:07 PM | #680 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 660
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Since Sweaty is on everyone's ignore list, I guess I better step in and keep the graphics coming. Sure we can measure limbs proportions, etc. to see if Bob H fits in the suit, but let's switch gears a bit and look at Bob's walk. The "flip" in Bob's step comes no where near to matching the 90 degree leg lift that Patty exhibits in several frames. Bob H certainly has latched onto his "compliant" gait in the film tho.
If Bob (as Patty) made the trackway, then his steps were 41" long. At least 1 step was anyway. JREF member Tube was able to match and exceed this step length in soft sand, but he certainly didn't look natural doing it. AFAIK Bob H has never mentioned that he took extra long strides in the sand. But he would have had to purposefully take longer strides inside a bulky suit to be Patty. His only comments were that he has the same walk as Patty and his demos never showed a long step length. IMO, this is a glaring omission. This is what Bob would look like if he took 41" steps. IMO, the figure in the PGF made the tracks, guy in a suit or whatever. I don't think they were made later. The figure demonstrated a 41" step length in at least 1 frame of the PGF. Did Bob H take 41" steps? Kit, would you please ask him, without any prompting? |
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