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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Bob Heironimus , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 17th March 2010, 09:45 PM   #601
wolftrax
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I have a few questions for Long:

1) What the heck happened to the recreation these guys did? They talked about it on the Nat Geo special but I never actually saw it, saw stills from it, but never did see the footage of Bob H in the suit doing the walk.

2) What does he make of the contradicting stories from Bob H and Morris about the suit?

3) What about Bob H claiming nobody else but his mom and nephew saw the suit, yet others claiming he was showing it off at the bar and had the suit for some time, that he and others were saying "We're going to fool them all!" and the rumors Bob H was hoaxing the community at the time?
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Old 17th March 2010, 09:46 PM   #602
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You know, if you just move right over Sweaty's posts without even reading them, and if people didn't waste time and space responding to him, this thread would be a gold mine of info!
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Old 17th March 2010, 10:04 PM   #603
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
I'll answer any question...as long as it's asked by someone other than kitakaze, and it's asked over on Melissa's Board.


I'll answer any question about Bigfoot. I'll never refuse, unless, of course, that is, if you ask me here. Then I may refuse, but I won't admit I'm refusing. I will just demand you stand where I tell you before I will consider answering you.

Have you ever seen a greater hypocrite in your life? Sweaty accuses a person of being unable to address his arguments when that person proposes a condition of fair exchange before they jump through Sweaty's hoops.

Sweaty then turns around and sets a condition that he will answer any question relating to Bigfoot if it is asked in the place of his choosing.

Other people's conditions = can't do what Sweaty asks.

Sweaty's conditions = A-OK.

It is to laugh.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 17th March 2010, 10:11 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by wolftrax View Post
I have a few questions for Long:

1) What the heck happened to the recreation these guys did? They talked about it on the Nat Geo special but I never actually saw it, saw stills from it, but never did see the footage of Bob H in the suit doing the walk.

2) What does he make of the contradicting stories from Bob H and Morris about the suit?

3) What about Bob H claiming nobody else but his mom and nephew saw the suit, yet others claiming he was showing it off at the bar and had the suit for some time, that he and others were saying "We're going to fool them all!" and the rumors Bob H was hoaxing the community at the time?
Thanks, Wolf, and good questions. I was supposed to call Greg Long this afternoon but got hit with a gnarly head cold last night. I got goofy on cold medication today and the Bigfoot Live Radio interview was enough for me. I'll be getting back to it tomorrow or in the next few days at most.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 17th March 2010, 10:31 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post

Sweaty accuses a person of being unable to address his arguments when that person proposes a condition of fair exchange before they jump through Sweaty's hoops.




Poor kitakaze....can't refute the 'elbow-reach' measurements.

Instead, he posts meaningless, twisted-up babble such as this piece of trash...

"Sweaty accuses a person of being unable to address his arguments when that person proposes a condition of fair exchange before they jump through Sweaty's hoops."


kitz.....feel freeeeeeeeeeeeee to refute/correct/adjust the measurements of Patty's and Bob's elbows ANY-TIME you like, buddy.

First, though, I suggest you un-twist yourself!
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 17th March 2010, 10:41 PM   #606
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Sweaty, please explain to those readers who don't simply ignore you (as most seem to do) why my asking you to agree to address my questions fairly if you want me to address yours is any different than you requiring that JREF members can ask you questions on the condition that it takes place on the forum of your choosing.

Your wild hypocrisy is blatant for all to see (though most people seem to just not even pay any attention to you).
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 17th March 2010, 10:56 PM   #607
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Btw...what would Roger have been expected to say to his financier....."Please loan us a big chunk of money, sir....I seriously doubt we'll actually cross paths with this thing....it being a myth, and all....but, hey, you just never know!! What do you say??!"
The same story Patterson and Gimlin told everyone else - they were going to investigate tracks in the area. DeAtley didn't need such promises to finance Roger. Pointing out to left field and saying to your inner circle, "I'm going to go down there, filma Bigfoot, and get us rich," and then going and doing exactly that tends to be the kind of serendipity that rational people consider as a obvious sign of hoaxing.

Ivan Marx did exactly the same thing and we all know he was hoaxing.

Yeah, Roger sure was a lucky guy. Said he was going to Bluff Creek to film a Bigfoot and did. Referred to the creature as an "old bitch" just like he drew in his book the year before. Described an encounter near verbatim to William Roe's. Went into the Ahtanum Valley where ranchers lived all their lives and never encountered Bigfoot and then played neighbours a recording of a Bigfoot in the neighbourhood he was just lucky enough to encounter in the bushes behind the general store.

That's some crazy luck. But hey, when you're hot, you're hot. Personally, I would expect people to think I'm a flailing creduloid to even think one of those things was just luck, but all three? I'd expect people to think I had a deeply messed up concept of reality.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th March 2010, 04:25 AM   #608
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Investors take risks all the time. People still invest in bigfoot today with little evidence or persuasion. I'm sure it wasn't much different in the 60's.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 18th March 2010, 05:04 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Sweaty, please explain to those readers who don't simply ignore you (as most seem to do) why my asking you to agree to address my questions fairly if you want me to address yours is any different than you requiring that JREF members can ask you questions on the condition that it takes place on the forum of your choosing.

kitakaze is konfused.

Me no asking kitakaze questions.....me no care to engage kitakaze in 'question and answer' dialogue.

Me post analysis....watch kitakaze fail to refute/adjust/correct analysis.

Me smile.



Quote:
(though most people seem to just not even pay any attention to you).

Gee, no kidding!

Keep ignoring the elbow measurements, folks....but, they ain't going away!!
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th March 2010, 06:09 AM   #610
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
kitakaze is konfused.

Me no asking kitakaze questions.....me no care to engage kitakaze in 'question and answer' dialogue.
You don't ask me questions? That's odd. What are these?...

Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
So, kitakaze........Roger never found the time to say to Bob Heironimus, during their trip up into the mountains......."Hey, Bob, check out this cool suit I had specially made...."???
Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
How the HECK did he miss that massive inner-core????????????????????
Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
So...why would it have stunk??

(snip)

Given the nature of the alleged "suit"....(having a specially-designed inner-core, with it's massive bulk, distinctive contour, and flexibility).....along with the "fact" that Patterson, Gimlin, and Heironimus took this very long trip together, out into a mountainous wilderness, to make a movie with it.....how could it be that Roger NEVER, at any point in that trip....ever mentioned anything to Bob Heironimus about the construction of such an impressive suit???

Was it NOT note-worthy?????

And, in addition to that, HOW could Bob have NOT NOTICED it, while putting it on???
LOL. You ask me questions all the time if you think it suits you.

Quote:
Me post analysis....watch kitakaze fail have no interest in to refute/adjust/correct analysis jumping through hoops in for a person who refuses to engage in fair dialogue.
Fixed it for you. Your hypocrisy is hilarious. You insist that my proposing a condition of fair dialogue is a failure to refute your arguments, and yet set the condition of telling people where they must go to in order to ask you questions.

How pathetic is that? If you can't sincerely address legitimate questions pertaining to the thread subject, I care nothing for addressing your scribbles. I'm quite satisfied that a normal human can fit within Patty.

Meanwhile, what do you think you look like as the guy who has no problem with Roger Patterson telling people he found Bigfoot in the bush behind the general store and literally called that he was going to film a Bigfoot in Bluff Creek? Critical thinker would not be the answer.

LOL. That's having it bad. BTW, just a minor problem for you...

Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Btw...what would Roger have been expected to say to his financier....."Please loan us a big chunk of money, sir....I seriously doubt we'll actually cross paths with this thing....it being a myth, and all....but, hey, you just never know!! What do you say??!"
Roger wasn't asking for a big chunk of money when he told DeAtley and others he would find and film a Bigfoot at Bluff Creek and get rich. The last time DeAtley gave Roger any real money was when he gave him $600 in 1966 to the publisher that was holding the printed books Roger had neglected to pay for. It wasn't until after Patterson got the film that DeAtley started funding Roger, and even then he thought he was promoting a hoax as real.

When Patterson and Gimlin went to Bluff Creek and made the film, Gimlin supplied the truck, the fuel, two of the horses (one he got from Heironimus and said he was breaking it in, which makes zero sense), and his own supplies. DeAtley was not paying Roger's way there.

Your apologist reasoning is all blowed up.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th March 2010, 06:34 AM   #611
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Me post analysis....watch kitakaze fail have no interest in to refute/adjust/correct analysis jumping through hoops in for a person who refuses to engage in fair dialogue.




Fixed it for you. Your hypocrisy is hilarious. You insist that my proposing a condition of fair dialogue is a failure to refute your arguments, and yet set the condition of telling people where they must go to in order to ask you questions.

How pathetic is that? If you can't sincerely address legitimate questions pertaining to the thread subject, I care nothing for addressing your scribbles. I'm quite satisfied that a normal human can fit within Patty.

Meanwhile, what do you think you look like as the guy who has no problem with Roger Patterson telling people he found Bigfoot in the bush behind the general store and literally called that he was going to film a Bigfoot in Bluff Creek? Critical thinker would not be the answer

Blab....Blab.........still can't SHOW specifically where, and to what extent, there are any errors in the elbow-reach measurements.....can you, kitakaze?


There is another aspect to this analysis, which involves measurements of the open space between the inside of the arm, and the outside of the body, which also reveals whether a subject's extreme width is due to a padded-body, or to an exceptionally wide skeletal frame.

These measurements support, and confirm what the elbow-reach measurements show.

I will SHOW this, later.

Kitty will BLAB later.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th March 2010, 06:44 AM   #612
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KIT- I believe Al Deatley financed the trip to film Patty.
From the 1992 Green/Gimlin Interview at www.bigfootencounters.com

Green:
Quote:
What was Al de Atley’s role in this?
Gimlin:
Quote:
Well, Al de Atley was Roger Patterson’s brother-in-law and he backed Roger financially with whatever expenses it took Roger to go to these places. He was supposed to help me on some of the expenses which I never did receive.
Green:
Quote:
So you provided the truck and the...
Gimlin:
Quote:
yeah, and the fuel, my own horse and my own food. The agreement when we left on any of those investigations was that whatever Roger spent that we would split the expenses with me but Al de Atley was backing Roger, because Roger didn’t have a job at the particular time.
Green:
Quote:
...so in fact he only financed Roger, he didn’t finance your share at all?
Gimlin:
Quote:
No, he didn’t finance my part of the trip at all. I had my own horse, my own equipment and my own food. I didn’t expect somebody else to support me on that. It would have been nice if I could have gotten part of the fuel pay paid and expenses on the truck.
FYI to Kit: He is just 'Chabal' not Sebastian., my rugby geekness taking over. Compare it to when I asked why there are no Jedi-Wookies, and you presented LOBACCA.
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Old 18th March 2010, 06:49 AM   #613
kitakaze
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Blab....Blab.........still can't SHOW specifically where, and to what extent, there are any errors in the elbow-reach measurements.....can you, kitakaze?
I thought you weren't asking me any questions? When you agree to talk fair, I will do as you ask. As I said, I won't even have to type a single word. Call my condition for fairness and inability on my part if you like, but I promise you no one is buying it.

Quote:
There is another aspect to this analysis, which involves measurements of the open space between the inside of the arm, and the outside of the body, which also reveals whether a subject's extreme width is due to a padded-body, or to an exceptionally wide skeletal frame.

These measurements support, and confirm what the elbow-reach measurements show.
Extreme body width? Like, human shoulders in big shoulder pads couldn't be in there?

Are Sebastian's shoulder inhumanly wide?
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th March 2010, 07:35 AM   #614
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
KIT- I believe Al Deatley financed the trip to film Patty.
Gimlin telling Green what he thinks was going on is nice, but I'd rather hear it straight from the man himself...

Greg Long:

"OK, you're a businessman," I said. ""You're interested in constructing roads, developing a business. I understand that.But here's Roger. He comes to you, he needs some money to get the book in his hands so he can sell it." I reminded him that after the book was published, Patterson and Gimlin traveled to Bluff Creek, and Patterson came back with his footage. I said, "After the book gets off the ground in '66, and before the footage, you're saying you didn't spend or loan him any money, or give him any money for expenses to go look for Bigfoot?"

Al DeAtley:

"If I did it was twenty bucks here and twenty bucks there."

And...

Greg Long:

"Just so it's really clear," I said. "The way Green writes about it is that you were funding Roger's expeditions. Roger would get in his VW van. He had the little ponies, and Gimlin would sometimes go with him, and they'd go out on these field expeditions. So you're saying you didn't say to Roger, 'Roger, I'll be partner with you in this hunt for Bigfoot'?"

AD: "No."

GL: "And if you find Bigfoot-"

AD: "No way."

GL: "-or capture something, then we can work together to sell it or market it."

AD: "No, I did not." (emphatically) "I got financially involved after the footage."

Al DeAtley then speaks with derision for Patterson's expeditions...

AD: "If truth be known, knowing Gimlin and Patterson, they probably took their horses, stopped in a tavern and got drunk and chased women for a little while and found some strange thing to [F-bomb], and then maybe they got into the woods sometime." (laughs)

The Making of Bigfoot: The Inside Story pp. 250-251

AL DeAtley had no belief in Bigfoot, did not fund Roger's expeditions, had no interest in them, and did't do any actual financing until after the footage was shot. He thought it was a hoax and did not believe Roger wasn't covering up a hoax at all because Roger specifically boasted that he was going to Bluff Creek to film a live Bigfoot and then get rich. DeAtley had no problem financing what he thought to be a hoax as the truth because he was looking to make money. Later he felt guilt about it, lost interest in pursuing helping Roger, and bowed out.

That is the reality and anyone who knows that, yet thinks the film is real anyway, is deeply messed up.

Quote:
FYI to Kit: He is just 'Chabal' not Sebastian., my rugby geekness taking over. Compare it to when I asked why there are no Jedi-Wookies, and you presented LOBACCA.
Lowbacca.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th March 2010, 09:50 AM   #615
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyYeti
Blab....Blab.........still can't SHOW specifically where, and to what extent, there are any errors in the elbow-reach measurements.....can you, kitakaze?

I thought you weren't asking me any questions? When you agree to talk fair, I will do as you ask.

No prob, kitz. You don't have to refute/correct the measurements, if you don't want to. I don't care. I like them the way they are.


Update...

kitakaze still can't show specifically where, and to what extent, there are any errors in the elbow-reach measurements....or, in any of the Patty/Bob comparisons, for that matter.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th March 2010, 10:50 AM   #616
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
kitakaze still can't show specifically where, and to what extent, there are any errors in the elbow-reach measurements....or, in any of the Patty/Bob comparisons, for that matter.
How so?

It's very simple. You have issues regarding the PGF and BH's claim of being Patty that you think are damning to the possibility of a hoax and I have issues regarding those same things that I think are damning to the possibility of a real Bigfoot. This is a place for discussion.

If you can agree to a fair discussion of those issues, yours and mine, I will gladly comply with your request. If you can not, there is absolutely no way that I'm going to let a childish and intellectually cowardly man dictate the terms of communication. Everytime you say that I can't show etc, etc, you are showing your dishonesty and unwillingness to behave in an adult manner, only confirming that to move one inch towards a hoop you are waving around would be the same as handing you a leash and saying, "walk me."
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th March 2010, 11:48 AM   #617
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
there is absolutely no way that I'm going to let a childish and intellectually cowardly man dictate the terms of communication.

Feel freeeeeeeeeeeeee...(as Free as the wind blooooooows...) to refute/correct/adjust the measurements of Patty's and Bob's elbows ANY-TIME you like, kitz.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th March 2010, 11:57 AM   #618
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Feel freeeeeeeeeeeeee...(as Free as the wind blooooooows...) to refute/correct/adjust the measurements of Patty's and Bob's elbows ANY-TIME you like, kitz.
Sweaty, I refuted your elbow/spine line when I asked if you had an angle which showed the TRUE-LENGTH of the distance between the elbow and the spine.

You need a view that is parallel to the line between the elbow and the spine-line.

Originally Posted by Sweatyyeti
So...as for your diagram, Drew....I haven't made any 'elbow-reach' measurements of Patty, using images of her from a direct-on side view...and I don't have any plans, too, either...
You do not need a 'direct-on-side-view' you need an angle that is on the same plane as the spine-elbow line.

You need to show the view from 'X' on this diagram:

If you cannot, then you are not measuring the true distance from the spine to the elbow, and THIS yellow line is pointless. You do not know where their elbows are in relation to the plane parallel to the line:
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Old 18th March 2010, 12:07 PM   #619
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Kitakaze, ask BH if he recalls the situation with these various scenes. He is in all of them, and Roger is in some of them too. Who was holding the camera? Bob seems to be wearing the same clothes in all the scenes. Were these all filmed on the same day/night?

Is that actors line-up shot from motion picture or a still camera? The small horse that Roger is sitting on... is that "Peanuts" his regular mount?


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Old 18th March 2010, 12:32 PM   #620
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Originally Posted by AtomicMysteryMonster View Post
...snip...You know, maybe I only saw the sweatsuit picture(s) here and got them mixed up with my posts. Correa, did you post anything like what I'm talking about?

...snip...
Oh, no, not me.

But I do seem to remember these pictures.
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Old 18th March 2010, 06:28 PM   #621
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Feel freeeeeeeeeeeeee...(as Free as the wind blooooooows...) to refute/correct/adjust the measurements of Patty's and Bob's elbows ANY-TIME you like, kitz.
Feel free to agree to a fair discussion of issues of yours and mine regarding the thread topic anytime you like, Sweaty.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

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Old 18th March 2010, 07:20 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Feel free to agree to a fair discussion of issues of yours and mine regarding the thread topic anytime you like, Sweaty.

With you...it'll never happen.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th March 2010, 08:07 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Sweaty, I refuted your elbow/spine line when I asked if you had an angle which showed the TRUE-LENGTH of the distance between the elbow and the spine.

You didn't actually refute the elbow-reach measurement, Drew...because you didn't show what the extent of the alleged error with it, is.

I agree that there may be some error in the measurement, due to Patty's arm being swung forward, in addition to it being swung out to the side....but the Ballet teacher measurement shows that any potential error would be minor....since her elbow-reach measures close to the typical reach, for an average-proportioned human.


Quote:
You need a view that is parallel to the line between the elbow and the spine-line.

Not necessarily. All that needs to be done is some testing with a physical model...measuring the elbow-reach with a subject's arm swung-out at various combinations of angles...both forward and laterally.

For any given arm-position, pictures can then be taken from both directly behind, and from an angle similar to the one that Patty is being viewed at...approx. 40-degrees.

The pictures can then be compared, and any potential error-factor can be very accurately determined.

I will be doing this, myself, sometime in the near future.


Again, this is pretty simple, basic geometry...and it can all be 'figured out', and an accurate measurement of Patty's elbow-reach can be arrived at.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

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Old 18th March 2010, 08:10 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
With you...it'll never happen.
LOL. HA! I see you still can't address major issues with Patterson's credibility and Bob Heironimus' testimony.

Wooo! 180°! Wow, that was fun.

Let me guess, something about twisting or distorting words? Yes, saying I am unable to do something when knowing exactly my reason for declining until fairness is assured - that's twisting.

You are a hypocrite for setting terms for discussion while not accepting any yourself. I say "I'll talk with you if you talk with me." You say that means I am unable to do what you ask for. You tell people that you'll answer questions on Bigfoot if the leave the building and go somewhere else.

That's hypocrisy plain and simple. That's intellectual dishonesty plain and simple. Am I twisting that scenario? Am I distorting it? I dare you to explain that. I think any kid could see someone is not playing fair and that person would be you.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th March 2010, 08:36 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Not necessarily. All that needs to be done is some testing with a physical model...measuring the elbow-reach with a subject's arm swung-out at various combinations of angles...both forward and laterally.
I keep asking you to do this - break out Slatty McPosty or something. Use a physical model. Download Poser or Dax and compare. You just keep dropping 2D scribbles on images of 3D objects. I have no doubt that won't change anytime soon. I am going to make a prediction. In three months we will still be looking at Sweaty scribbles and nothing will have changed. No physical models, nothing.

Quote:
For any given arm-position, pictures can then be taken from [both directly behind, and from an angle similar to the one that Patty is being viewed at...approx. 40-degrees.
Directly behind... Yes, this is a good idea...

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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th March 2010, 09:40 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
LOL. HA! I see you still can't address major issues with Patterson's credibility and Bob Heironimus' testimony.

Wooo! 180°! Wow, that was fun.

Let me guess, something about twisting or distorting words? Yes, saying I am unable to do something when knowing exactly my reason for declining until fairness is assured - that's twisting.

You are a hypocrite for setting terms for discussion while not accepting any yourself. I say "I'll talk with you if you talk with me." You say that means I am unable to do what you ask for. You tell people that you'll answer questions on Bigfoot if the leave the building and go somewhere else.

That's hypocrisy plain and simple. That's intellectual dishonesty plain and simple. Am I twisting that scenario? Am I distorting it? I dare you to explain that. I think any kid could see someone is not playing fair and that person would be you.

Poor kitakaze...he's all 'twisted-up'.

It's a FREE world, kitakaze....I'm not stopping you from refuting/correcting my 'elbow-reach' measurements.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th March 2010, 10:17 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post

Directly behind... Yes, this is a good idea...

Yup...looking at Patty from directly behind....there is a definite difference between her body-width, and elbow-reach....and Chabalie's......


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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

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Old 18th March 2010, 10:24 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Poor kitakaze...he's all 'twisted-up'.

It's a FREE world, kitakaze....I'm not stopping you from refuting/correcting my 'elbow-reach' measurements.
Nor am I stopping you from addressing major issues with Patterson's credibility and Bob Heironimus' testimony. You'd think anyone interested in the truth behind the PGF controversy would be.

Anyway, your refusal to play fair is the only thing stopping me from doing anything you ask. AFAIC, your fear of dealing with the real problematic issues is what's stopping you.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th March 2010, 10:28 PM   #629
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Yup...looking at Patty from directly behind....there is a definite difference between her body-width, and elbow-reach....and Chabalie's......


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...balCompAG2.gif
Use the same photo, account for distance and blur, account for padding, and off we go.

BTW, you cut somebody's foot off again. What's with that?
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 18th March 2010 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 19th March 2010, 12:11 AM   #630
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Yup...looking at Patty from directly behind....there is a definite difference between her body-width, and elbow-reach....and Chabalie's......
A-ha...

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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th March 2010, 12:49 AM   #631
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Atomic, let's assume BH is lying. Why did Bob try to protect Patterson
Did he ever say he was protecting Patterson prior to you saying that to him? He did a pretty crappy job of "protecting" Patterson's secret from his bar buddies and the Yakima population.

Quote:
and deny any involvement in both the South Fork documentary and being in the suit when Greg Long first comes to him?
Oh, that's easy. Some guy starts sniffing around Yakima (where Bob H. has a reputation as the guy in the suit) to investigate the film. An instant confession would be odd for someone whose kept silent on a national level about their involvement in a famous film. No, it would be better to lie and make some easily-noticed contradictions. That way, he'll look less suspicious and make the investigator feel like a bigshot (and thus more willing to listen to Bob's story) by giving him . And if the guy doesn't figure it out after a few interviews with Yakima locals (who know him as "Bigfoot Bob"), any one of Bob H's family or friends can steer Long in the right direction.

Quote:
Why does he pass not one, but two polygraphs later when he comes out?
Because polygraphs are unreliable, woo-woo garbage and popular culture is riddled with various methods on how to cheat one (my favorite example comes from a "Beavis and Butthead" episode). Run "how to cheat a polygraph" through Google Books and you'll find several books mentioning the matter.

Quote:
Why does he screw his friend who lives on the same street as him?
Why not? He screwed him over in the 60's by "confessing," so why should doing it again matter? Gimlin got screwed by Patterson and didn't do dick about it until Dahinden got involved. And we all know what happened when Dahinden tried going after him (I wonder if Long has that interview on tape...). And listen to that lame-o "conned" excuse Gimlin gave for Bob H.'s claims. Comes off as an easily exploitable victim to me.

Angry Gimlin goes gunning for revenge? "Hey buddy, it's just me havin' a laugh. Just like jumping out at people in my bigfoot suit; I'm a prankster! The people who believe me didn't believe you filmed Bigfoot anyway, so there's no harm. Come on, I'll buy you a pitcher of beer to make up for it..."

Quote:
Why does he maintain a relationship with Gimlin if he did?
Do we know that he actually still does?

Quote:
Why doesn't Gimlin sue Heironimus?
Bob H. consulted with a lawyer before making the big confession, so he knew every possible scenario. Gimlin can't win in court unless he could prove Bigfoot is real or if he revealed the hoax himself. Lose/lose situation for Gimlin.

Quote:
Why doesn't Patty? She's gotten money hand over fist for the film.
See above, coupled with not being able to get back the money she'd spend on her legal fees from a retired Pepsi bottler and how Bob H. scared off her most tenacious legal ally.

Quote:
Also, I really need to ask Bob about this grey horsehide suit thing.
Please do. I'd also like to hear more on his Dahinden meeting.
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Old 19th March 2010, 01:36 AM   #632
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Yeah, Roger sure was a lucky guy. Said he was going to Bluff Creek to film a Bigfoot and did. Referred to the creature as an "old bitch" just like he drew in his book the year before.
Let's not forget that he referred to Patty as a "son of a buck" at Hodgson's store. Freudian slip, Roger?

Quote:
Went into the Ahtanum Valley where ranchers lived all their lives and never encountered Bigfoot and then played neighbours a recording of a Bigfoot in the neighbourhood he was just lucky enough to encounter in the bushes behind the general store.
Didn't he also put up posters about Bigfoot in areas that had never had a sighting and then suddenly all sorts of reports would pour in?

Originally Posted by wolftrax
Atomic, excellent posts! Outstanding sources. I've got to run but had to read what what was written, and of course I'm going to be spending a lot more time later reading these excellent links. Thanks!
Thanks; take as long as you need! I just hope that sweatsuit picture is not the Godzilla equivalent of the thunderbird photo...

Originally Posted by SweatyYeti
Actually, he could start by providing some evidence, and then work up to "better quality", from there!
His evidence is on par with Joyce's.
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Old 19th March 2010, 06:10 AM   #633
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AtomicMysteryMonster wrote:
Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyYeti
Actually, he could start by providing some evidence, and then work up to "better quality", from there!
His evidence is on par with Joyce's.
Not really.


The way I weigh the evidence...Joyce's, and her husband's...and, by extension, her daughter's....testimonies out-weigh Heirony's self-contradicting testimony.

Additionally...Patty's 'elbow-reach' is so far beyond Bob's that it makes it a physical impossibility for Bob to have been Patty.
That makes Bob's "confession/testimony" null-and-void.



Now....on the other 'side of the fence'.....you "Critical Thinkers" give Joyce's testimony ZERO weight....and, from what you said, AMM....Heirony's testimony is "on par" with Joyce's testimony of ZERO WEIGHT.....so therefore, by your reckoning....Bob's testimony carries ZERO weight.


Either way....Bob's testimony carries NO weight.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

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Old 19th March 2010, 07:18 AM   #634
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Sweaty, a point of advice.

You keep typing as if you're a five-year-old that's just discovered the internet and can't get over the fact that hey there's pretty colors and smiley faces! It does nothing but undermine your credibility. If you want to argue with kitakaze (who appears to be mature), I suggest that you try acting like a grown-up.
In any case, kitakaze and the other posters on this thread have refuted your measurements time and time again. You just keep reposting the same old crap and pretending that it hasn't been beaten already. Please, if you have any actual evidence, present it.
To kitakaze and the others: keep it up. At least one of the lurkers here is on your side.
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Old 19th March 2010, 07:47 AM   #635
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
The way I weigh the evidence...Joyce's, and her husband's...and, by extension, her daughter's....testimonies out-weigh Heirony's self-contradicting testimony.

Her husband didn't claim to see a Bigfoot in New York. The daughter ought not be assumed as "by extension" because she has not even been interviewed.
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Old 19th March 2010, 07:57 AM   #636
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Originally Posted by Pure_Argent View Post
To kitakaze and the others: keep it up. At least one of the lurkers here is on your side.
Anybody who loves Castlevania has got to know something. Symphony of the Night is one of the greatest gaming experiences of all time. On Order of Ecclesia now.

Not afraid to admit I have swag. Where's the Castlevania thread?
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th March 2010, 08:37 AM   #637
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What about Bob?

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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th March 2010, 08:40 AM   #638
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Her husband didn't claim to see a Bigfoot in New York. The daughter ought not be assumed as "by extension" because she has not even been interviewed.

The reason why I mentioned her husband, was that, when I talked to him on the phone...he supported her story.

Since her story includes her daughter....there's a very high probability that her daughter would also say she saw the Bigfoot, too.


Of course, it's within the 'realm of possibility' that Joyce and her husband are both fruitcakes, and are making this all up, and the daughter walks around the house with a bag over her head, afraid that the neighbors might recognize her......but I really don't think that that is the case.

Note: The extra smilies were inspired by Pure Argent's post, above....

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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 19th March 2010, 08:43 AM   #639
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
What about Bob?

By the numbers....his elbow-reach is well short of Patty's.


Still can't SHOW specifically where, and to what extent, there are any significant errors in the elbow-reach measurements....can you, kitakaze?


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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 19th March 2010, 08:45 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Anybody who loves Castlevania has got to know something. Symphony of the Night is one of the greatest gaming experiences of all time. On Order of Ecclesia now.
Finally, someone else on the internet with a discerning taste in video games.

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Where's the Castlevania thread?
Unfortunately, there isn't one.

Anyway, I'll shut up now, as I'm just derailing at this point. Keep it up!
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