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25th April 2010, 09:45 PM | #1041 |
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What they're saying here is that the suit was in Bob's mother's car for one day.
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25th April 2010, 09:48 PM | #1042 |
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25th April 2010, 09:49 PM | #1043 |
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Opal was putting boxes in the trunk to go get apples when she found the suit. It scared her at first because she thought it was an animal. This was the morning after Bob returned around 10:00 am per her usual routine. Bob said they had Chico about eight days. He said Patterson and Gimlin left on Friday or Saturday, and then he came the Tuesday or Wednesday after. He had driven to the meeting point of Bluff Creek Company store and met them at 5:00 pm. He mailed the film from Eureka the same day as filming. This would have been Wednesday or Thursday. The whole trip took 3 days.
My thinking was that all this occured between Friday, October 13th and Saturday, October 21st. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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25th April 2010, 10:01 PM | #1044 |
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If the filming was on Wednesday, then he would have gotten home late Thursday night. He could have gone to work Friday. Opal could have found the suit on Friday the 20th or Saturday, the 21st. Patterson and Gimlin could not have been there until Sunday. The film mailing and processing seems possible if he mailed it on Wednesday.
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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25th April 2010, 11:47 PM | #1045 |
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26th April 2010, 12:22 AM | #1046 |
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I found this:
Originally Posted by William Parcher
So given this, if the filming was on the 12th, and Bob H stayed in a log covered building/hotel/motel/some place that rents a room, drove for 14 hours and the 13th, suit was found on the 14th by his mom and that night taken by Patterson, it does leave plenty of time for film processing, but a different date than the one you've given here. What's the deal with the different dates? What dates did he give Long, and what dates did he give you? |
26th April 2010, 01:18 AM | #1047 |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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26th April 2010, 02:24 AM | #1048 |
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So these dates weren't given?
Originally Posted by Kitakaze
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26th April 2010, 05:00 AM | #1049 |
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But here's what doesn't make sense... Here is the comparison again, showing Heironimus with about 2" of padding on his side, next to Patty... ....that 2" worth of padding doesn't quite make his torso width match Patty's....so, that means that the alleged suit had to have padding at least 2"..and probably more like 3" thick on the sides.....a solid 3" thick on the back...and, since the butt protrudes outwards from the lower back, that would have been a good 4" or 5" thick. But.....Bob never noticed an "inner-core padding" to the suit... .....between his practice with the suit, in Roger's (?) garage....then the actual day of the shoot....and the days after the shoot, while he was showing the suit to his friends. Bob's memory of the event is a little "hazy".....and he was as blind as a bat....to boot. |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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26th April 2010, 09:33 AM | #1050 |
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(unequivocal + incontrovertible)/2 = unequivocable
At any rate, Leon Festinger demonstrated many years ago that for true believers, even "unequivocable" won't be enough. well, I guess imaginations will run wild for a while. I would like to believe that one of the fake boobs fell off in Opal's Buick, and she thought it was a Russian fur hat all these years...wore it every winter. If this is what happened, I would suggest calling the National Enquirer immediately. No help needed. |
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26th April 2010, 09:46 AM | #1051 |
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As you saw, I took notes from his appearance on the Biscardi radio show. BH didn't state the actual dates and instead said which weeks and what day of the week. I went to a calendar to figure out what the actual dates would have been.
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26th April 2010, 12:01 PM | #1052 |
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BFF thread re-opens
with warnings.
(this means you, kit; I'll prolly be next) |
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26th April 2010, 12:52 PM | #1053 |
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I put the dates of Oct. 14, 1967 early morning P&G leaving Yakima from...
1) Bob saying to Greg Long that Roger left on a Friday or Saturday and that he came the Tuesday or Wednesday following... 2) Bob saying to me that P&G had Chico for about eight days. This was in response to me relating Gimlin saying when asked about Chico that he was breaking the horse in for Bob and had Chico for a few weeks. Bob also said Chico was already broken in. 3) Jerry Lee merritt saying that Patterson showed up at his home at 4:00 the morning he was leaving, and tried to get Jerry to come to Bluff Creek, as was their agreement. 4) Al Hodgson saying Patterson called him shortly after 6:00 pm from a pay phone outside Hodgson's Willow Creek Variety Store on Firday, Oct. 20 to tell him about the film. Het met Roger and Bob around 7:00 pm at the store. Al said Roger had told him of mailing the film from Eureka. 5) Opal Heironimus saying she saw the suit in her trunk at about 10:00 am the morning after Bob returned. 6) Roger showing the film at Al DeAtley's on Sunday, Oct. 22. I had forgotten to take into account Bob's interview on Bigfoot live Radio where he said it was the first or second week of October and that it was hot at Bluff Creek. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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26th April 2010, 04:05 PM | #1054 |
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I bet BH knows who processed/edited the films.
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26th April 2010, 05:06 PM | #1055 |
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"But why doesn't Bigfoot get habituated? Everything can be habituated. Give me a crate of Oreos and I could habituate you."-kitakaze ThePonderingPossum.com |
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26th April 2010, 05:28 PM | #1056 |
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Quote:
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26th April 2010, 06:18 PM | #1057 |
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Thank you for acknowledging my word smithery.
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"But why doesn't Bigfoot get habituated? Everything can be habituated. Give me a crate of Oreos and I could habituate you."-kitakaze ThePonderingPossum.com |
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26th April 2010, 06:29 PM | #1058 |
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Maybe Patty having breasts was all a part of some bigger inside joke with said porn producer? I mean, one of the fringe benefits of producing porn would be all the unfettered glimpses of ****. We don't know, he could have easily told Patterson "The creature has to have **** or I walk mister!"
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27th April 2010, 06:29 AM | #1059 |
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Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me: Together we can find the cure Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too… |
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27th April 2010, 08:22 AM | #1060 |
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This has been my beef all along.
Bill is not an expert in photogrammetry and the tool he used to model the Bluff creek film is not a photogrammetry tool either. If only Bill would supply the original scans rather than the rubbish reproductions he has on his site (like he promised) that he made of the footage we might be able to check, even determine, the distances between subjects on the film with objectivity and the "forensic" back up of proper photogrammetric software and algorithms.
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27th April 2010, 08:49 AM | #1061 |
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Originally Posted by masterbarber on BFF
Originally Posted by kitakaze on BFF
Bob Heironimus told you that there was no packhorse at Bluff Creek when he went there to be filmed. Did he specifically tell you that the only horses there were Chico and Peanuts? Please ask him to confirm or deny the following: 1. He is sitting on his own horse Chico in the actors line-up pic as well as the downhill incline riding clip. 2. Patterson is sitting on Peanuts in the actors line-up pic. Then please ask about this scene. Are we looking at Patterson riding Peanuts pulling a white packhorse at Bluff Creek? If not, can he describe the scene? Then please ask about this scene. Are we looking at Gimlin riding Chico pulling a white packhorse at Bluff Creek? If not, can he describe the scene? KKZ, Bob told you that there was no packhorse at Bluff Creek when he went there. Do not then assume that any footage showing a packhorse cannot have be taken at Bluff Creek. P&G were at Bluff Creek on more occasions than when BH says he came to be filmed. If BH is accurate, then I was wrong about something. I thought we have a scene of BG riding Chico at Bluff Creek pulling a packhorse (see above). |
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27th April 2010, 09:58 AM | #1062 |
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One hot, lazy summer afternoon.....Phil Morris returned from the kitchen with a freshly made ice-cold tea, to relax in his favorite recliner......when, as he flipped through the channels.....enjoying a nice, loooong sip of his ice-cold tea....he suddenly blurted out, amidst a spray of freshly made ice-cold tea....."Mabel, quick, come look!!....it's MY suit...on tv!!!...I'd know it anywhere!!"...
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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27th April 2010, 10:13 AM | #1063 |
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Wow. almost every 'muscle' and seam are in the exact spot.
The face is close, the hands look good. It really isn't that far off. |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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27th April 2010, 12:13 PM | #1064 |
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In the spirit of the James Randi Foundation, I am tempted to offer a one million dollar prize for anyone who can convincingly demonstrate the normal contraction (nb: not the apparent effect) of any well-defined, visible mass aka "muscle" seen in/on the subject of the PG movie.
Of course I don't have a million dollars, but I would buy the winner a decent bottle of Scotch. Anyone who thinks he can do it, had better bone up on anatomy and physiology before making their presentation. |
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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27th April 2010, 12:18 PM | #1065 |
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27th April 2010, 12:19 PM | #1066 |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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27th April 2010, 12:55 PM | #1067 |
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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27th April 2010, 12:56 PM | #1068 |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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27th April 2010, 02:18 PM | #1069 |
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Originally Posted by Bitter Monk
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Open your mind and let the sun shine in. Let a wild hairy ape in there too, would you please? - William Parcher You can fool too many of the people too much of the time. - James Thurber |
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27th April 2010, 02:21 PM | #1070 |
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Originally Posted by Drewbot
Oh, and you have an e-mail kit... |
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Open your mind and let the sun shine in. Let a wild hairy ape in there too, would you please? - William Parcher You can fool too many of the people too much of the time. - James Thurber |
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27th April 2010, 02:29 PM | #1071 |
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Ding dong.
BTW, here's something Philip Morris said to me... He asked me to consider why Patterson hadn't just taken his 16mm film he just took of Bigfoot to a nearby television studio for processing. He said that back in those days most major tv studios that did news coverage had to have their own processing rigs for 16mm. I thought it seemed a interesting, but it didn't quite make sense to me. |
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6 |
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27th April 2010, 02:35 PM | #1072 |
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For those unaware, that photo of Bob in the Morris suit has been modified to the hilt. The body was widened, definition added, photoshopped over a fake background, feet missing, etc. It's a highly doctored promotional graphic for Nat Geo. Kinda like airbrushing cover models.
That said, Morris supposedly did recognize "his" suit in the PGF. But he never made a bigfoot suit in 67, so he must have thought he saw one of his gorilla suits..that someone modified into a bigfoot suit. So what part of the suit did he recognize? Not the head, not the t & a, not the legs, not the feet...which part(s)? ETA: What AMM said. |
27th April 2010, 02:52 PM | #1073 |
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The tag?
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27th April 2010, 02:53 PM | #1074 |
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Wah Chang jumped out of his chair when he seen the head...
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27th April 2010, 02:54 PM | #1075 |
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Originally Posted by wolftrax
I just remembered that in one of Mark Chorvinsky's article on the alleged Chambers/Patterson connection, it was mentioned that Chambers had asked someone in the industry (Landis?) to stop saying he was involved in the PGF. It was either this one or this one. This is further proof of Chambers denying his involvement/trying to quash such rumors to people in the industry. Again, this was before the Short interview. One of those articles notes that at least one person in the industry gave support to the rumor due to his feeling that Patty's body resembled a fursuit from "Lost in Space" (a show that John Chambers had some connections with). I seem to recall someone poo-pooing Chambers' alleged involvement due to his schedule not being free due to the shooting time. This shows that not everyone in the industry believed it and how those that did believe didn't feel that the suit was realistic. These, and possibly the alleged statement that Chambers enjoyed that the film was shot at a place named "Bluff" Creek that I linked to much earlier in this discussion, all point to Chambers denying involvement and not being impressed with the suit. So why did he say otherwise to Bobbie Short? In an unrelated note, this has some interesting tidbits on the NASI report. The next page is also worth a read. |
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Open your mind and let the sun shine in. Let a wild hairy ape in there too, would you please? - William Parcher You can fool too many of the people too much of the time. - James Thurber |
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27th April 2010, 02:58 PM | #1076 |
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A blast from the past:
On page 37, Chapter 5 of How to Operate a Financially Successful Haunted House by Philip Morris and Dennis Phillips. (1997 Morris Costumes. ISBN: 0-911137-11-4. Library of Congress # 87-80906), it is written: "A lot of publicity stunts will be covered by the press and electronic media. One of the authors of this book pulled a classic stunt to promote the opening of his new costume shop. It went like this: A friend of his from his old circus days called and told him he would be through his area in a few hours to talk and visit. The fellow happened to be an elephant trainer, and always traveled with a few bulls (elephants). So the wheels of publicity began to turn and an idea emerged in the author's head. He called the local newspaper and radio station and explained that he was the owner of the local costume company and they had just received a contract to manufacture some elephant costumes and blankets and the big international circus star and all of his elephants would be arriving shortly. What followed is a classic funny story. In comes a motor home and tractor trailer and the two old friend meet with TV camera cranking out film and newspapers grabbing pictures. The elephant trainer had no idea what was happening! He soon caught on and went along with the stunt. He unloaded an elephant in the parking lot and they began to take measurements and put on a big show. When they went to move the truck, the trainer was having problems starting the engine, so the elephants were brought around to "give a push!" This story and the pictures dominated the 6 o' clock news and feature page for the next day, It didn't cost the author a penny! This is a fine example of using your imagination and exploiting all the possibilities." |
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Open your mind and let the sun shine in. Let a wild hairy ape in there too, would you please? - William Parcher You can fool too many of the people too much of the time. - James Thurber |
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27th April 2010, 03:06 PM | #1077 |
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27th April 2010, 03:06 PM | #1078 |
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So I guess "the author" didn't go to the papers and tv stations about the gorilla/Bigfoot costume, now did he? Certainly had the opportunity for the first oh, 36 years. Instead, he finally talks to a minor journalist and makes it into an add on chapter in a book that sells badly. Nice try.
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27th April 2010, 03:10 PM | #1079 |
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Abraham Zapruder tried to get his super 8 Kodachrome developed 4 years earlier in Dallas at TV stations. Fail. x 2 TV stations. One was WFAA, which I believe was the Dallas Morning News station. Finally took it to the Dallas Kodak Plant. YOU COULDN'T GET 16mm (or Super8, basically same developing thing) KODACHROME II DEVELOPED OUTSIDE OF REGIONAL KODAK PLANTS. Sorry to shout , but you really should read the book by Greg Short, no...no...Greg Long, yeah, that's it. Greg Long. ha-ha.
Seriously, Long was right. Complex, costly, and patented procedure. I have seen some postings that suggest because a local drugstore advertised "we develop Kodachrome film," it meant that, say, any Rexall Pharmacy could actually process it. I mean, does your corner dry cleaner really do the dry cleaning? yet they advertise that they do. hmm? Drugstores and camera shops shipped to regional Kodak plants, just like your dry cleaner ships your suits to a dry cleaning plant. Of course the dry cleaning plant is usually in the same city. Unlike the Kodak plants. Zapruder was just lucky there was one in Dallas. Another fallacy from the footers: that some lab would bootleg the process; yeah, that's a good thing to do, mess with Kodak and you go out of business. There were no leftover chemicals; other labs never had the process at that time. And why would a private business man jeopardize his livelihood to accommodate Al DeAtley, who really wasn't in that big a hurry anyway. "Footers think it must have been so urgent that people were flying it out of the two bit airports at nine oclock at night, getting rush developing, opening plants on the weekends. Baloney. There was no deadline, remember that. it was just Roger and Bob hangin out down at Louse Creek, riding Peanuts and Chico around every day, waiting for the go ahead from Al, so they could trumpet it to the world. They had no jobs to go back to, and they weren't on salary, at least we know Bob Gimlin wasn't. and Patterson was living off Gimlin, so no problemo if it took another week to process and edit the film. |
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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27th April 2010, 03:19 PM | #1080 |
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