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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Bob Heironimus , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 6th February 2010, 10:53 AM   #321
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by JcR View Post
Wasn't this photo shot close to Roger Patterson's house?
Tube (Matt Crowley) tells the story of a woman who says she is Jerry Merritt's niece. She said the photo was taken "...South Fork of Ahtanum 20 miles west of Yakima. My mom threw gas on fire to make it flare up...." That does put it near Roger's home.
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Old 6th February 2010, 11:31 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Tube (Matt Crowley) tells the story of a woman who says she is Jerry Merritt's niece. She said the photo was taken "...South Fork of Ahtanum 20 miles west of Yakima. My mom threw gas on fire to make it flare up...." That does put it near Roger's home.
Canteen, Axe, Rifle ...Nice touch. The shovel is for the fire pit I figure.
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Old 6th February 2010, 11:56 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Tube (Matt Crowley) tells the story of a woman who says she is Jerry Merritt's niece. She said the photo was taken "...South Fork of Ahtanum 20 miles west of Yakima. My mom threw gas on fire to make it flare up...." That does put it near Roger's home.
Thanks
I was digging for this article I had remembered seeing. Then I got sidetracked with Jerry Merritt and found Buddy Knox.
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Old 7th February 2010, 12:52 PM   #324
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:

Error 2

Where:
Your comparison where you attempt to compare Patty's height based on her foot and Roger's height based on an alleged Patty cast he is holding.

What extent: First of all, the image showing the bottom of Patty's foot is the one you just told us earlier is not reliable because...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweatyYeti
The 'Frame 72' foot-ruler measurement, of 5'7", needs 'correction factors' applied to it, to correct for a few things....such as 'blooming' of the foot, the foot being closer to the camera than the rest of the body, and vertical foreshortening of Patty's height.

Therefore, the 5'7" figure is too short...by several inches.
More reality....that you can't face.

Total intellectual dishonesty on your part.

You refuse to acknowlege the results of Frame 72 when it does not suit you, yet you go and use it when you think it is to your advantage.
More kitakaze Krap.

If you had looked closely at the Frame 72 comparison of Patty and Roger....you would have seen that I had scaled the cast smaller than Patty's foot....ACCOUNTING for the 'bloom' of Patty's foot.


In addition to that fact....re-adjusting Roger's size, for other potential error-factors in the Frame 72 image of Patty, would only tend to decrease Roger's height even further, relative to Patty.


Nevertheless....here is the same graphic, with a later Frame used as a foot-ruler...and Roger still ends up at very nearly the same...WAY TOO SHORT...height......

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Old 8th February 2010, 04:44 PM   #325
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This thread is great! It's like... Numb3rs meets Mark Twain meets X-Files meets Columbo!

A popcorn-moment at almost every post!
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Old 9th February 2010, 03:40 PM   #326
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Old 22nd February 2010, 09:32 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Nevertheless....here is the same graphic, with a later Frame used as a foot-ruler...and Roger still ends up at very nearly the same...WAY TOO SHORT...height......

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...mWeeRoger5.jpg
My goodness, Sweaty, I am stunned. You once again omitted a central part of my post and failed to address a key point. It is as if you are not able to handle the argument. Here, let me replace what you left out...

Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Secondly, and far more importantly, there is absolutely no reliable evidence that the subject of the Patterson film made any of the impressions Patterson cast. Conversely, there is significant evidence that Roger faked his casts. Those are two left feet. They are not the same feet.

If Patty's feet and Patty's casts are not the same thing, then any comparison you make assuming they are is totally meaningless. To what extent is the degree of error? Pick a number. Based just on the issues you had with Frame 72 before, you'd be off by several inches. What the real extent is can not be reliably measured. All we can say is... Controls not set. Comparison invalid.

Of course, of direct relevance is the post by River concerning foot rulers and track depth that you still haven't addressed. Here's a snip...

Originally Posted by River
The foot as a ruler should corroborate the other photogrammetry method. (distance, focal lengh, percentage of full frame) It doesnt. This would imply that the trackway may have been fabricated.
That's a fun new scribble you made up there. Is there any reason why you cut off Roger's left foot? I'm assuming it was for effect.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 08:18 PM   #328
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News flash!!!

Sweet Fancy Moses, I did it!!! I finally spoke with Bob Heironimus! Holy guacamole!

I just got off the phone after speaking with Bob for about 40 minutes. Some have you have inquired by PM on what the situation is in regards to my attempts to get Lucas to get BH's email for me. I was also away twice for a couple of weeks at a time due to my pc getting repairs and having a hectic work schedule.

I confirm, I repeat, I confirm that Lucas was not lying and has indeed been in contact with Bob Heironimus. Interestingly, Bob told me that he had quite a lot of trouble understanding Lucas. For myself, I grew increasingly frustrated with Lucas in the way he relayed my requests. The specific information I gave him to tell Bob was relayed as "BTW, somebody wants to interview you." The back and forth grew quite tedious and finally I grew tired of waiting. Yesterday I had the time available and decided to try the six possible numbers that William Parcher and I had come up with. I had held off till now in wanting to go through someone who already knows Bob, and I didn't want to risk offending him.

Of the six numbers I tried yesterday only two were in service. I eliminated one and the other I was unsure because I was getting an automated answering message. As it was getting past dinner time on the west coast, I decided to leave it until today to try again. When I called today around 5pm Bob's time, I was expecting the number would not be his. The phone rang a couple of times and I immediately recognized the husky voice of Bob Heironimus. LOL, my whole career revolves around being on stage and I nearly pooped my pants. I quickly recovered and told Bob my name and that I was calling from just up in Vancouver Island, BC. I told him I was a regular contributor for the James Randi Educational Foundation forum, which was a popular website for skeptics, critical thinking, and the examination of paranormal claims.

I told Bob that for several years now Bigfoot and the Patterson film has been a regular topic of conversation and that we have people from all over the world reading and participating over hundreds of pages of discussion. I told Bob that I personally had been writing about and investigating his claim and the PGF for about four years at the JREF and have been trying for about a year now to arrange an interview. I asked Bob if he was familiar with Youtube, which he wasn't, and explained to him that it is a worldwide free video sharing service that is basically like the TV of the internet, except that it is created by the viewers for the viewers rather than by professional studios as with TV.

Bob right away let me know that he has a fee that he charges for TV interviews based on 15 minutes or 30 minutes discussion. Out of respect for Bob's privacy I will not share the exact dollar amount, but I will say it is extremely low. I explained that my intention was to come to Yakima in person and to interview him and record video myself and that I would most likely be coming by myself as an independent researcher. We then proceeded to get into a somewhat lengthy discussion regarding the PGF, Roger Patterson, Bob Gimlin, and Bigfoot enthusiasts. Here are some highlights of our discussion (my questions and his answers paraphrased - I took notes as we spoke but did not record the discussion)...

KK - You do in fact live on the same street in Yakima nine doors away from Bob Gimlin?

BH - Yes, that's right.

KK - You've known Mr. Gimlin in since the film was made in 1967. How long have you two known each other?

BH - We knew each other since long before (the PGF).

KK - When is the last time you saw Mr. Gimlin?

BH - Two weeks ago at a horse show. We didn't discuss anything about Bigfoot.

KK - Recently Mr. Gimlin did an internet radio interview with a group of Bigfoot enthusiasts from Minnesota in which he discussed the events of the PGF. He repeatedly speaks about his horse. We now know that that was in fact your horse, Chico. Mr. Gimlin has once iun an interview confirmed that to be true. He said he had the horse for several weeks and was breaking it in for you.

BH - That's a bunch of crap. The horse was broken in long before that. He was only there for eight days.

KK - So we know you were involved with Roger and Bob back then. We have you appearing on certain points of Roger's film not in the suit, either riding Chico or sitting around a campfire at dusk. You're the only person ever to have claimed to be in the suit, you live nine doors from the guy who was known to be there when the film was shot, your firends with him, he admits he had your horse there... 2004 Greg Long puts out a book in which you call Gimlian a liar essentially...

Why hasn't Mr. Gimlin tried to take any legal action against you?


BH - Because he knows it's not real.

Points of interest...

- I could hear Glenda (Bob's wife) in the background. She told Bob she found the email I sent last year to her work email address.

- Bob advised that I should talk with Philip Morris. He said he thought it was BS that John Chambers was responsible for the suit.

- I mentioned to Bob that people I know had recently done an interview with Greg Long who said that he was retiring and would be using his time to follow up his investigation from his 2004 book. Bob said that Greg had recently called him and wanted to go over some things.

- We spoke a bit about Tom Biscardi visiting Bob in the summer of 2008. I told him I had seen pictures of his family and home (complimented him on his Chevy restorations.

- Bob asked me if I noticed how Bob Gimlin will only ever refer to Patty as "the creature". He thought that was because Bob G never wanted to implicitly call Patty a Bigfoot.

As it was close to dinnertime, I told Bob I didn't want to keep him on the phone too long. I told him that I would like to go ahead planning to come to Yakima to meet him and would like to stay in touch to go over various things. I asked him if he preferred to stay in touch by phone or email and he said by phone. He gave me some info about his schedule and I said I look forward to speaking with him again and gave my regards to his family.

YESSS!!! Finally, after all this time I am talking with Bob Heironimus! Now we're getting somewhere.
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I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 3rd March 2010, 08:37 PM   #329
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Kitakaze, you've done a fine job with the opening salvo/warm-up/intro. Congratulations on finally making the call.

Would you like to open the floor to ideas on which questions to put to Bob when the interview takes place?
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Old 3rd March 2010, 08:46 PM   #330
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Way to go, kitakaze! An apology from me to lucaschorak. I thought he was making it all up.

The PGF Believers are gonna wet themselves with glee when they hear that BH charges money for interviews. That is one of the prime motivators for hoaxing (lying) according to the Bigfooters.

So far he hasn't said anything we don't already know or couldn't assume based on things he's already talked about. You could try to press him for details about delivering the film. He said that Roger handed him the roll containing himself as Patty with instructions to mail it (in Eureka?). That was right before he left Bluff Creek. Why didn't Roger just have him deliver it in person when he drove back to Yakima?
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Old 3rd March 2010, 08:59 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
snip

I told him that I would like to go ahead planning to come to Yakima to meet him and would like to stay in touch to go over various things.
/snip
You should try to get Gimlin there also. I cant think of a better interview concerning this topic. Heironimus and Gimlin interviewed together = answers + you could easily sell the interview and pay for your expenses. Besides the obvious win situation of that, just think of the possible fireworks. I wonder if Gimlin would even agree to such an interview to "set the record straight".
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Old 3rd March 2010, 09:01 PM   #332
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It occurs to me the best, most skeptical-est approach to the interview would be to attempt to falsify Bob's account. Not overtly-- not to the point of insult or accusation -- but questions should be framed with the goal in mind of establishing that his claim is invalid.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 09:11 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
YESSS!!! Finally, after all this time I am talking with Bob Heironimus! Now we're getting somewhere.
Sorry Kit, but I'm finding it hard to share your enthusiasm. Unless Bob H. can produce the actual suit that he claims he wore, it's just more words.

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Old 3rd March 2010, 09:26 PM   #334
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I admire your tenaciousness and enthusiasm, Kit - but I agree with RayG in that you will have nothing after all is said and done if you just go over all the stuff that has been gone over ad nauseum.

I would spend my time trying to convince him to get Bob Gimlin to tell the truth.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 09:48 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
Kitakaze, you've done a fine job with the opening salvo/warm-up/intro. Congratulations on finally making the call.

Would you like to open the floor to ideas on which questions to put to Bob when the interview takes place?
Thanks, Vort. In hind sight, I think I should have picked up the phone once WP and I got the six numbers to call, but I'm just happy the ball is now rolling and I am on speaking terms with the man at the center of this debate.

Absolutely, I would like to see suggestions for what Bob should be asked. If it really matters at all, I am quite sure that Bob H rarely turns on a computer. When I asked him if he uses email at all, he said "No, not really." BTW, he mentioned if I was aware he had passed to lie detecor tests, and I told him yes. I told him I've read a lot of ridiculous theories from believers of Bigfoot why that is. I plan to discuss the subject further with him in the next few weeks.

If anyone would like to submit quetions that they do not want any p[ossibility of BH being prepared for, please send them by PM.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 09:50 PM   #336
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<Spicoli> "Duuude! Yeah guy!" </Spicoli> I'm impressed (once again) with your diligence.

Now, while RayG is right, as he so very often is, and despite my near complete indifference to the entire subject, I'm interested in hearing from this guy one more time. And honestly, especially so if it's going to be done by one of Bigfoot's Best™ Believers-Turned-Skeptics. I don't necessarily believe BH was (or was even smart enough to be) the guy in the suit, but I am convinced he could have been and/or that it's very possible he was there somewhere and knows who and how it all really went down. Patterson is gone and Gimlin isn't doing much 'talking' - BH is probably the lastest bestest hope for trying to get the Real® 'real skinny' on the PGF (if he was there).

Kitakaze, when do you hope to make it all happen?
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Old 3rd March 2010, 10:11 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Way to go, kitakaze! An apology from me to lucaschorak. I thought he was making it all up.
I tried to send young Lucas another apology by PM, but his inbox was full. I'm sorry for doubting you, Lucas. I'm just relieved that he didn't split early on.

Quote:
The PGF Believers are gonna wet themselves with glee when they hear that BH charges money for interviews. That is one of the prime motivators for hoaxing (lying) according to the Bigfooters.
When Bob told me about the fee, I had the distinct impression that he at first thought he was talking to someone behind a production. I did explain youtube to him as "basically TV for the internet." After we were discussing money made from the film by Roger, Patricia, Bob G, DeAtely and he said he was sick of the film kicking around and making all this money all these years without him ever seeing a cent. I can not argue with BH asking a (very) small fee to do interview for shows. What is Bob getting for his interview? What did Bobo "The Chimp" Fey, Paul Yamarone, and others set Bob G up with for the Yakima Round-up? What will Bob get for appearing in Ohio at the conference coming up?

What really kicked me is when BH confirmed his continued friendship with BG and when he told me they just had seen each other two weeks before at a horse, but didn't discuss Bigfoot. There they are, "Hi, Bob," "Howdy, Bob." "Good looking horse." "Yup, she's a beauty." "How's the wife?"

No kidding, why wouldn't he have seen him at a horse show two weeks before? They both work with horses and they live on the same street of a tiny town. I was discussing this with a good friend just after I got off the phone who has no interest in Bigfoot or knowledge about the PGF. He said that he would consider it damning if the only person ever to claim to be in the same suit lived in the same city, let alone the same street as Gimlin.

Footers should ask what reason would BH lie to me about that. BH new that I could call Gimlin myself. What reason is there to doubt BH saying that. What footers should really be talking about is why they are still believing a film where the only person ever to claim to be in the suit has lived nine doors from one of the men behind the film since it was made and had a good friendship with all along the way. A man who we know was on various parts of Patterson's film and who's horse was admitted by Gimlin to be present when Patty was filmed.

Quote:
So far he hasn't said anything we don't already know or couldn't assume based on things he's already talked about. You could try to press him for details about delivering the film. He said that Roger handed him the roll containing himself as Patty with instructions to mail it (in Eureka?). That was right before he left Bluff Creek. Why didn't Roger just have him deliver it in person when he drove back to Yakima?
Good question. I will be asking Bob to give me an entire timeline from when he left Yakima, the circumstances of the time, to when he returned to Yakima and what he did immediately after. What I need now is to go back and look at what are the best leads for holes in the plausibility of BH's story.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 3rd March 2010, 10:32 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
<Spicoli> "Duuude! Yeah guy!" </Spicoli> I'm impressed (once again) with your diligence.

Now, while RayG is right, as he so very often is, and despite my near complete indifference to the entire subject, I'm interested in hearing from this guy one more time. And honestly, especially so if it's going to be done by one of Bigfoot's Best™ Believers-Turned-Skeptics. I don't necessarily believe BH was (or was even smart enough to be) the guy in the suit, but I am convinced he could have been and/or that it's very possible he was there somewhere and knows who and how it all really went down. Patterson is gone and Gimlin isn't doing much 'talking' - BH is probably the lastest bestest hope for trying to get the Real® 'real skinny' on the PGF (if he was there).

Kitakaze, when do you hope to make it all happen?
Thanks, Harry. I really couldn't 100% confirm a specific date now, but I would like to go to Yakima in the early summer and time it with the Sasquatch Music Festival in Washington which I will be at May 29-31.

Here's the thing. You'd be willing to hear him out one more time, I'd be willing to hear him out many times over as much as he is able to share. The thing is how smart do you have to be to be the guy in the suit that Roger would screw? Roger needed someone he knew that was close to him that he could promise some money to and get them to walk in a suit. BH himself said he was young and stupid and baited by the promise of $1000 dollars from Roger.

Was he smart enough to keep his mouth closed? No. We know by 1968 that it was getting around town in wee little Yakima that he was the guy. I think we have to consider our options. Well, one is that Bigfoot is real and the PGF is the best film we have of one. For me I would have to ignore all the blatant indicators of hoax such as those I've posted about a million times concerning his '66 book. I would have to ignore that here's this guy in hollering distance
of Gimlin that Gimlin hasn't done a single thing legally about.

Gimlin could sue Heironimus silly and he hasn't. Gimlin won't get anywhere near a polygraph while his friend and neighbour Heironimus has passed two. How insane is it to accuse your friend and neighbour on national televison of lying and hoaxing? The only reason this keeps going on is because it's Bigfoot and for the vast majority of normal people it's a joke.

The question should be if Heironimus is lying, why does it look so utterly obvious that he's not.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 3rd March 2010, 10:58 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I admire your tenaciousness and enthusiasm, Kit - but I agree with RayG in that you will have nothing after all is said and done if you just go over all the stuff that has been gone over ad nauseum.

I would spend my time trying to convince him to get Bob Gimlin to tell the truth.
I think you have a good point there. The thing that is forming itself in my mind now is a little different. I spent months trying to get someone else to get some results with BH to no end. It wasn't anything I asked Lucas to bring to Bob that paid off, but rather working with what I had and gleaning the information I needed to get it done myself. I don't think it's futile to get BH to try and reason with BG, but I can imagine the outcome easily.

Look at everything we're seeing from BG these days. He loves the conferences and the attention. He loves charming the ladies and having the Bigfoot believer people fall over themselves to gush and praise him. We certainly can't say he isn't getting paid for his time. In the interview with the Minnesota guys he makes it clear that he is actively following developements in Bigfootery. He said that is the last interview he is doing (not including Ohio). Note to footers, if you want BG to talk, you're going to have to sweeten the pot. Bob G has reams of doe-eyed people hanging on his every word and knows they would be crushed for him to come out and admit a hoax.

I think a more resourceful approach is needed. What I'm talking about is not going through BH or anyone, but going straight to the source myself. I think at some point soon I am going to have to talk to Gimlin myself and get his side of the story. You know, BG has never done this. BG has never spoken with anyone who has as much knowledge as we do here and is not a believer. Bob G has been shielded from any such experience.

How does the scenario change when BG is talking with someone who is also talking with BH down the street and not startting with the assumption that BH must be a liar.

So hey, Mr. Gimlin, I was wondering about the horse show you were recently at with Mr. Heironimus. Isn't it kind of weird that you two would be hanging out together talking nothing about Bigfoot and there's no "Hey, you son of a ____, enough with the calling me a hoaxer and a liar." Do many of your Bigfoot enthusiast fans even know just how close and how far back your relationship to Mr. Heironimus goes? Don't you think that is something pretty relevant that people might want to be aware of?

I think with just the right approach and a non-combative attitude, their could be some very important developements.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 11:08 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by River View Post
You should try to get Gimlin there also. I cant think of a better interview concerning this topic. Heironimus and Gimlin interviewed together = answers + you could easily sell the interview and pay for your expenses. Besides the obvious win situation of that, just think of the possible fireworks. I wonder if Gimlin would even agree to such an interview to "set the record straight".
Delicious. I like your thinking, River. This is along the lines where I would like to go. I could offer to pay both men a fee for making the appearance, if necessary. I would have not the slightest qualm about shopping the interview to cover any losses I'm taking. With both men at the table and the right questions being asked, this could be something huge, however it goes.

What I wouldn't have given to be in the right place at the right time two weeks ago at the horse show both BH and BG were at ready with a smile, the right questions, and a tape recorder/camera.

It would be like a Bigfootery TMZ freak-out!
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 4th March 2010, 12:30 AM   #341
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Well done, Kit.

Ask him what he thinks happened to the suit.
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Old 4th March 2010, 01:03 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Well done, Kit.

Ask him what he thinks happened to the suit.
One of the things I'm going to do is basically forget what I have read about much of Bob's story and get him to tell me all about things from scratch. So, tell me about the suit. How long did you have the suit? What was the suit like? Who saw the suit? When did you last have it? Who did you give it to? Any idea where it went?

When we were talking he asked me if I knew about Philip Morris. He said he was a real interesting character and should be able to tell me many things about the suit. I have long been of the inclination that it wasn't Morris, but he said we should talk. I will ask Bob if he can help me contact Morris. I plan to talk to a number of people, including Greg Long.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 4th March 2010, 01:41 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Delicious. I like your thinking, River. This is along the lines where I would like to go. I could offer to pay both men a fee for making the appearance, if necessary. I would have not the slightest qualm about shopping the interview to cover any losses I'm taking. With both men at the table and the right questions being asked, this could be something huge, however it goes.

What I wouldn't have given to be in the right place at the right time two weeks ago at the horse show both BH and BG were at ready with a smile, the right questions, and a tape recorder/camera.

It would be like a Bigfootery TMZ freak-out!
Yep. I think if its "marketed" to both of them properly as "setting the record straight once and for all" it might be appealing to BG. Otherwise, I think you'd have an extremely difficult time getting him to agree to such an interview. I think its a golden opportunity though, and probably not going to be available to us much longer. Definitely worth a shot, and definitely worth bucks as far as a valuable interview. I hope you can make that happen. I predict it would be easy to market such an interview afterwards to collect any expenses also. A lot easier than with just an interview with one of them. I cant see a good reason why both of them wouldnt want to "set the record straight". Unless one of them happens to be lying. If I were Gimlin I'd definitely want to set the record straight and confront them on camera if they were lying about such a thing. (and if the film was legitimate - no chance haha)

Heironimus would probably agree to such an interview. I dont think Gimlin will. (just my prediction on things) If he doesnt, that paints a little bit of light on the subject as well. Makes one think... why wouldnt he do that interview? Nothing to lose if you've got the truth on your side.


People have picked around this subject for a long time. There are two of the people directly involved (depending on whos story you believe that is) that have never been questioned together. It has TV magic written all over it. Know how to get in touch with Gimlin? His number is probably still listed.
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Old 4th March 2010, 02:02 AM   #344
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My thoughts exactly, River.

Why should Bob H do the interview? I spoke with him exactly about this on the phone. I was speaking with him about what the general reaction and repercussions have been since Greg Long's book came out in '04. I was telling him about how many people have written him off as some random crazy liar and how he is painted as just another "I was Patty" wacko/scammer.

I was telling him the importance of people knowing just how close the connection is between Gimlin and Heironimus. I explained to him how it was the JREF where we discovered the images of him on Patterson's film and found the extent to which Chico was used by Patterson and Gimlin. I impressed upon him that this is something people need to know and that Long's book has done far too little to get to the truth.

As for Bob Gimlin,

I would not sit at a table with him and call him a liar. I would put out all the things that don't add up and try and get the men to make sense of it while at the table together. Gimlin says he is tired of the effect that the film has had on his life and marriage. In the recent interview he said how much flack his wife took after Long's book came out. It is strange to me that the trouble the book caused never was enough for BG to take legal action.

What I am not going to do is go down to Yakima and do a TMZ on Gimlin. There are important questions for both men to answer. If Gimlin is not willing to come to the table, that speaks loud enough for me. In the meantime, I want as many people to start learning just how bizarre the circumstances of this story are. I'm so done with 6 years of endles crap and graphs and charts. Let's do this thing and get these guys talking while they're still around to talk. If we lose that chance, I don't think I could take another four years of Sweaty's amazing technicolour dreamposts. If I could do this interview and get it released I would call it...

9 Doors Apart...


The Bob Gimlin & Bob Heironimus Interview
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

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Old 4th March 2010, 04:23 AM   #345
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Way to go, K!

Someone must stand for JREF's "E"!

Prepare yourself for the Wrath of the Footers!
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Old 4th March 2010, 05:29 AM   #346
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You could go to visit BobH, and you and him should walk right on over to BobG's place, and confront him with it, Have H say to G, "BobG, are you calling me a liar? This guy says you called me a liar, but you did ride my horse in BC, CA, and you know I was in the suit, and you know Roger promised me $1000 to wear the suit, please tell this man I am not a liar"

I'll bet to you and BobH's face, BobG would find it difficult to put his friend in that category.
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Old 4th March 2010, 07:11 AM   #347
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Old 4th March 2010, 07:58 AM   #348
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Bob G has reams of doe-eyed people hanging on his every word and knows they would be crushed for him to come out and admit a hoax.

Sounds like you, kitakaze, with Bob Heironimus...right now.



Quote:
What I need now is to go back and look at what are the best leads for holes in the plausibility of BH's story.

Patty's elbow-reach. It's beyond Bob's elbow-reach. (Too bad.)


I've been adding to the analysis, and will be posting more of it, later.



Carry on with your Doe-eyed duty....DEER.
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Old 4th March 2010, 08:53 AM   #349
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Bob advised that I should talk with Philip Morris.

Here's a question for you to ask Bob, kitakaze...


"Did Roger ever "skin-out a dead, red horse", to make his suit with?"

(And...did the suit really stink??)
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tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 4th March 2010, 09:48 AM   #350
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Kit, I am impressed with your persistence and determination. You have proven yourself over and over to have the will, the drive, and the sufficient level of objectivity and critical thinking skills which will be needed in order to pull something like this off. In other words, we can all trust you to not get all Sweaty and screw things up.

That said, I'd also not like to see the same things hashed over for yet another time. The Bigfootery Cheering Section have already grown fat on those easy pickings. I would try to stay away from traveling any previous paths, I'd approach this in a somewhat unconventional manner, prying open cracks that may have so far been overlooked.

One of the most important pieces to this ongoing saga is the suit, that "Holy Grail" and gilded icon of the PGF debate. This is something which 'Footers have blown-up, shrunk, shape shifted, prayed to and woke up wet over on many a cold, lonely morning.

I would assign the finding of that suit a top priority and given just as much importance as any other goal I had set for this long-overdue fact-finding foray.

I know from experience that things can be put away into attics and forgotten about for years. Last year, I bought a 200+ year-old cabin and the entire contents. You wouldn't believe what I found inside, and what was hidden away in the attic loft. No bubble-butted ape suits mind you, but one odd piece was a very old Native American hand-woven basket. I contacted an old friend in CA(Kathy Strain) who knew about these things and sent it to her as a gift, which in return she sent me a signed copy of her book(which is very interesting and an entirely different discussion altogether). Turns out the basket was actually a California basket, a long way from it's origins and not a local piece as I had initially thought. That basket had been forgotten about in that attic loft for probably well over 100 years.

Things have gotten shoved into attics and outbuildings for years on end, forgotten and gathering dust. All you have to do is ask. Go door to door if you have to. Follow leads, like maybe a close friend who could have borrowed it for a Halloween stunt, possibly ending up in theirs or their Mom's attic. It's a small town, so you never know.

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Old 4th March 2010, 10:54 AM   #351
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It'll be fun to watch the responses among the various bigfoot sites when they find out about Kit's pending discussion with Bob.

Surely they will all be restrained, rational, and civilized.
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Old 4th March 2010, 10:55 AM   #352
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My hunch is that Roger was smart enough to destroy every piece of that suit once he realized he had a good looking film to work with.
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Old 4th March 2010, 02:25 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Sounds like you, kitakaze, with Bob Heironimus...right now.
Fawning over Bob's every word? Except for the fact that I did most of the talking and was not falling over myself to suck up to the man. He's a man with an important story to tell and I'd like to hear it rather than look at another 5000 Rorschachs and technicolour flails by you. One thing I'd love to hear your opinion about, though, Sweaty is this...

What do you think of the fact that the only person who has ever claimed to be Patty was friends with Bob Gimlin at the time the PGF was made and appears at various points on Patterson's film? What do you think about the fact that Bob Heironimus lives only nine doors from Bob Gimlin and has done so since the PGF was made? What do you think about the fact that Bob Gimlin has never taken any legal action against the man whose testimony threatens his credibility to people all over the world who see him as a hero and endangers his personal profit from the film? What do you think about the fact that Bob Heironimus has passed two separate polygraphs concerning his involvement with the PGF? What do you think of the fact that Heironimus confirms that he is still friends with his neighbour, Gimlin, and sees him on occasion in which there is no discussion about Bigfoot at all?

Do you not find it troubling at all that the only person to ever claim to be Patty is that closely associated with Patterson and Gimlin?

I don't think you can sincerely and honestly answer those questions, Sweaty. I think you'd sooner fall in a fanatical fit of giant coloured text rants than address the glaring reality that Bob Heironimus is not some random whackjob, but rather someone with a long and close involvement with the principles of the PGF. You won't address those points, and will simply cling to your laughable scribbles.

Quote:
Patty's elbow-reach. It's beyond Bob's elbow-reach. (Too bad.)
Bob's arms couldn't fit into Patty's? That's funny because every attempt you've made to show that has fallen apart under the simplest scrutiny. I assure you, though, that when I meet Bob in Yakima that I'll take measurements head to toe and give you material to obsess about for years to come.

Quote:
I've been adding to the analysis, and will be posting more of it, later.
Like this garbage? Or will you be cutting off more feet? Either way, I promise you I could not care less.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 4th March 2010, 02:33 PM   #354
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See? I told you.

The Wrath of Sweaty Yeti!!!

Frightening!

Woooooo!
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Old 4th March 2010, 02:59 PM   #355
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Patty's elbow-reach. It's beyond Bob's elbow-reach. (Too bad.)

Bob's arms couldn't fit into Patty's?

That's funny because every attempt you've made to show that has fallen apart under the simplest scrutiny.

Nice twist of the subject of my post, kitakaze....it's what you do best!


Patty's ELBOWS extend (significantly) further from her backbone than Bob's do from his backbone....with their arms at comparable angles.

This difference can ONLY be due to a skeletal difference....since padding cannot move the elbows further away from a person's spine.


Too danged bad for Bob Heironimus....and his followers. I guarantee you that this fact WILL bite Heirony in his Heir-iny....one of these wonderful days.
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"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

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Old 4th March 2010, 03:14 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Volsquatch View Post
Kit, I am impressed with your persistence and determination. You have proven yourself over and over to have the will, the drive, and the sufficient level of objectivity and critical thinking skills which will be needed in order to pull something like this off. In other words, we can all trust you to not get all Sweaty and screw things up.

That said, I'd also not like to see the same things hashed over for yet another time. The Bigfootery Cheering Section have already grown fat on those easy pickings. I would try to stay away from traveling any previous paths, I'd approach this in a somewhat unconventional manner, prying open cracks that may have so far been overlooked.

One of the most important pieces to this ongoing saga is the suit, that "Holy Grail" and gilded icon of the PGF debate. This is something which 'Footers have blown-up, shrunk, shape shifted, prayed to and woke up wet over on many a cold, lonely morning.

I would assign the finding of that suit a top priority and given just as much importance as any other goal I had set for this long-overdue fact-finding foray.
Thank you, Vol. I agree most with what I bolded in your quote. I have no intention of doing a rehash of what Greg Long did. There are many things that have not been done concerning Heironimus and those such as Gimlin and others connected to the film. Whoever is telling the truth and whoever is lying, these people are connected and have been since before the PGF was created. There in Yakima there is a reality that faithful Bigfoot enthusiasts and doubting skeptics have not yet seen. I think there is door into that reality that is shrinking every day. I intend to go through that door and find out everything I can from the men that were there before the chance is gone.

I will do everything I can to find what happened to the suit, but as The Shrike/Saskeptic said, I am pretty confident that Roger had the foresight to dispose of the evidence of his hoax long ago. There is always the chance he didn't. While Roger was undoubtedly clever and resourceful, he was stupid enough to do things like steal Morton Kunstler's art and slap his name on it in his book the year before the he filmed Patty. He was stupid enough to slap a wig on an actor and present the man as Gimlin. Holy crap, if Roger was alive now and had attempted these things, he would have been torn apart faster than you can say Georgia boys.

In the case of Heironimus, if Bob is telling the truth, Roger was stupid enough to screw over the man he put in the suit. We know Heironimus was there with Patterson and Gimlin running around on their Bigfoot adventures and we know Heironimus was talking about being in the suit as early as '68. One thing that Heironimus discussed with me on the phone is that if I did come down to Yakima, I would quickly learn that it was common knowledge that BH was the man in the suit.

Let's think about this for a second. I do not doubt that when I go to Yakima, that many people will confirm BH's claim. National Geographic said the very same thing when they went there. Of course an argument ad populum does not make it any more valid, but think about this - they don't live in Seattle or Portland or San Francisco. These men, Bob and Bob, live in a tiny town on the same street. They have since this thing started 42 years ago. Gimlin often comments about how he nearly lost his wife over the film. Imagine for 40 years you live in a small town and everybody thinks you're a sham because of the word of a good friend of yours. I do not doubt that Mrs. Gimlin long ago had more than enough of talk about Bigfoot.

The thing is that in a community like that, life has to go on and you can't get caught up in the drama of a tiny fringe of people around the world who believe in Bigfoot. That makes perfect sense when you consider what Heironimus said to me about seeing Gimlin two weeks ago at a horse show and not discussing Bigfoot. Why would they discuss Bigfoot? If Bob is telling the truth as the two polygraphs suggest he is, Roger screwed Gimlin's buddy out of $1000 over 40 years ago and then screwed Gimlin. The film became an icon for believers everywhere around the world and life in little Yakima moved on. Bob and Bob are still friends and aging men. When Bob H asked his friend down the street to come clean about the film, Bob G said it was too late to do that. Makes perfect sense to me.

Quote:
I know from experience that things can be put away into attics and forgotten about for years. Last year, I bought a 200+ year-old cabin and the entire contents. You wouldn't believe what I found inside, and what was hidden away in the attic loft. No bubble-butted ape suits mind you, but one odd piece was a very old Native American hand-woven basket. I contacted an old friend in CA(Kathy Strain) who knew about these things and sent it to her as a gift, which in return she sent me a signed copy of her book(which is very interesting and an entirely different discussion altogether). Turns out the basket was actually a California basket, a long way from it's origins and not a local piece as I had initially thought. That basket had been forgotten about in that attic loft for probably well over 100 years.
I know Kathy, as well. Nice lady. If you haven't seen the thread here on Native American traditions and Bigfoot, you should check it out. I've done a lot of research many of Kathy's claims about natives.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 4th March 2010, 03:28 PM   #357
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Kudos Kit!!! This would be the most significant advancement with the PGF in a long time, and maybe just in time. I'll be PMing you some questions for Bob(s).

As the Devil's advocate...
Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
What do you think of the fact that the only person who has ever claimed to be Patty was friends with Bob Gimlin at the time the PGF was made and appears at various points on Patterson's film?
Because Bob H was always jealous that he was close to the PGF, yet didn't get in on it.

Quote:
What do you think about the fact that Bob Heironimus lives only nine doors from Bob Gimlin and has done so since the PGF was made?
No doubt they all knew each other well, which gave Bob H a sense of entitlement.

Quote:
What do you think about the fact that Bob Gimlin has never taken any legal action against the man whose testimony threatens his credibility to people all over the world who see him as a hero and endangers his personal profit from the film?
On what charges and how could you prove your case?

Quote:
What do you think about the fact that Bob Heironimus has passed two separate polygraphs concerning his involvement with the PGF?
Patterson passed one too.

Quote:
What do you think of the fact that Heironimus confirms that he is still friends with his neighbour, Gimlin, and sees him on occasion in which there is no discussion about Bigfoot at all?
They likely can't avoid each other. They know where each other stands. Neither is likely to budge, so why discuss it?

Quote:
Do you not find it troubling at all that the only person to ever claim to be Patty is that closely associated with Patterson and Gimlin?
He admitted it because it's Gimlin's word against his, and in his mind he should have been the guy in the suit anyways. But he may not even know who or what was actually in the suit.

So why do people make false confessions? Did Bob confess for bragging rights or was he still looking for his $1000?

ETA: I smell book deal here for Kit. Ghost writers need not apply.

Last edited by Óðinn; 4th March 2010 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 4th March 2010, 03:28 PM   #358
kitakaze
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Nice twist of the subject of my post, kitakaze....it's what you do best!

Patty's ELBOWS extend (significantly) further from her backbone than Bob's do from his backbone....with their arms at comparable angles.
I'm twisting nothing, Sweaty. You failed in your attempt to rule out Bob. You can try again and this time I would advise you remember that arms to not move confined to two-dimensional planes.

Now let's try something wild and new, Sweaty. Let's put aside elbows for a moment. There's something really interesting here and really important when discussing Bob Heironimus and the Patterson/Gimlin film. It's that great big fat connection he has to the film and the people involved. Let's be crazy. You can demonstrate some intellectual courage and address the following...

Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
What do you think of the fact that the only person who has ever claimed to be Patty was friends with Bob Gimlin at the time the PGF was made and appears at various points on Patterson's film? What do you think about the fact that Bob Heironimus lives only nine doors from Bob Gimlin and has done so since the PGF was made? What do you think about the fact that Bob Gimlin has never taken any legal action against the man whose testimony threatens his credibility to people all over the world who see him as a hero and endangers his personal profit from the film? What do you think about the fact that Bob Heironimus has passed two separate polygraphs concerning his involvement with the PGF? What do you think of the fact that Heironimus confirms that he is still friends with his neighbour, Gimlin, and sees him on occasion in which there is no discussion about Bigfoot at all?

Do you not find it troubling at all that the only person to ever claim to be Patty is that closely associated with Patterson and Gimlin?
I promise you won't. You will go nowhere near any of that. fear is the mind killer.

If that is too corner-huddle inducing, maybe you can whip out your crayons and address the evidence that Patterson faked Patty's tracks.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 4th March 2010, 03:31 PM   #359
kitakaze
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
See? I told you.

The Wrath of Sweaty Yeti!!!

Frightening!

Woooooo!


No, wait...

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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 4th March 2010, 04:00 PM   #360
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Very cool Kit. Buy him a new hat...

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