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View Poll Results: Does gender privilege exist in the US?
Yes, gender privilege does exist in the US + I am male 73 76.04%
No, gender privilege does NOT exist in the US + I am male 5 5.21%
Yes, gender privilege does exist in the US + I am NOT male 16 16.67%
No, gender privilege does NOT exist in the US + I am NOT male 2 2.08%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 6th October 2017, 04:30 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm not passing the buck, I'm putting the burden of proof where it correctly lies: the one making positive claim. And I'm pointing out that the claim has not been supported adequately. Neither you nor tyr have even considered factors other than discrimination.


1) You made a posiitve claim here as well. Why are you not expected to support your claim?

2) Yes, both tyr and I have certainly considered factors other than discrimination. I know that I've gone to great lengths to provide information that specifically controls for any other factors. I don't know what exactly you are looking for here.
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Old 6th October 2017, 08:10 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post


1) You made a posiitve claim here as well. Why are you not expected to support your claim?

2) Yes, both tyr and I have certainly considered factors other than discrimination. I know that I've gone to great lengths to provide information that specifically controls for any other factors. I don't know what exactly you are looking for here.
No, I did not make a positive claim. I gave examples of the sort of possibilities one should consider, and probably it an exhaustive one at that. And no, you and he did not consider other factors in your cross-country comparison. You both declared, without evidence, that they are the same except for discrimination.
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Old 7th October 2017, 03:04 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, I did not make a positive claim. I gave examples of the sort of possibilities one should consider, and probably it an exhaustive one at that.
Yeah, but you have to prove that they're possibilities!
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Old 7th October 2017, 07:39 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yeah, but you have to prove that they're possibilities!
Is this really such a controversial ask?

Zig obviously sees a clear connection between different political systems and how it could affect the choice of women to enter politics. EC and Tyr cannot. Which is why they are asking him to elaborate on why he thinks there is a connection. Isn't this pretty par for course in any discussion?

I myself am quite keen to hear Zig's POV because the idea that political systems can influence the kind of people who want to enter it seems quite intriguing.
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Old 7th October 2017, 08:34 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Dipayan View Post
Is this really such a controversial ask?
It's not controversial. It's stupid.

The only way you can think that they're not possibilities is if you think that there are no differences between men and women, which is stupid.
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Old 7th October 2017, 08:47 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
It's not controversial. It's stupid.

The only way you can think that they're not possibilities is if you think that there are no differences between men and women, which is stupid.
I didn't think this was what the question was about. It was about how different political systems can influence women's choices differently to enter politics.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:08 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Dipayan View Post
I didn't think this was what the question was about. It was about how different political systems can influence women's choices differently to enter politics.
Well discussion of one led to the other, but yes, it also requires that you think the only factor is discrimination.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:20 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Well discussion of one led to the other, but yes, it also requires that you think the only factor is discrimination.
In my head, what someone else thinks should make no difference to me when I am requested to provide clarification for my own thoughts. Anyways, moving on.
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Old 7th October 2017, 07:02 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Dipayan View Post
Is this really such a controversial ask?

Zig obviously sees a clear connection between different political systems and how it could affect the choice of women to enter politics. EC and Tyr cannot. Which is why they are asking him to elaborate on why he thinks there is a connection. Isn't this pretty par for course in any discussion?

I myself am quite keen to hear Zig's POV because the idea that political systems can influence the kind of people who want to enter it seems quite intriguing.
The argument that it could be different political systems exacerbating sexually dimorphic preferences, therefore we can't conclude the disparity is largely do to discrimination and social pressures is unsupported.

This is basic skepticism or critical thinking. Having a hypothesis is meaningless without supporting evidence, especially when there are other plausible competing hypothesis. In this case it is ironic that we're being accused of not considering other factors when they're the ones who haven't even realized that their proposed mechanism could just as well be leveraging discrimination and other bias as the sexually dimorphic preferences. Not to mention the differences being as large as they are, it's difficult to say that the US is the 'correct' rate. If these other proposed mechanisms were strong enough to explain that up to 140% difference, they would be strong enough to detect.
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Old 7th October 2017, 08:25 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
The argument that it could be different political systems exacerbating sexually dimorphic preferences, therefore we can't conclude the disparity is largely do to discrimination and social pressures is unsupported.
I understand what you are saying, which is why I am eager to hear more from Ziggurat. But I feel like when you say 'this argument is unsupported' he hears 'this argument needs to be proven beyond all doubt'.
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Old 7th October 2017, 09:00 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
The argument that it could be different political systems exacerbating sexually dimorphic preferences, therefore we can't conclude the disparity is largely do to discrimination and social pressures is unsupported.

This is basic skepticism or critical thinking.
No, tyr, you have that exactly backwards. You aren't comparing a control and a test group. You haven't varied only one thing. So you cannot attribute the difference to just the one cause you're interested in. You have to consider all possible causes.

But you haven't considered any other causes. You've simply dismissed them out of hand. That isn't basic skepticism or critical thinking. It's dogma. You made a positive claim, and you can't back it up.
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Old 7th October 2017, 10:38 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, tyr, you have that exactly backwards. You aren't comparing a control and a test group. You haven't varied only one thing. So you cannot attribute the difference to just the one cause you're interested in. You have to consider all possible causes.

But you haven't considered any other causes. You've simply dismissed them out of hand. That isn't basic skepticism or critical thinking. It's dogma. You made a positive claim, and you can't back it up.
No, abjectly wrong. Evidence for the mechanism I describe has actually been presented. I haven't argued that there are no other factors, no matter how many times you insist that I haven't considered any, that's still wrong. You have not backed up your hypothesising handwave with any evidence yet. It's just a FUD argument (well, specifically an 'UD' argument).

Provide evidence for your hypothesis. You don't even have a plausible explanation of the mechanism yet. All you have is trying to distract from the cause you don't like to examine.
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Old 7th October 2017, 11:36 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
No, abjectly wrong. Evidence for the mechanism I describe has actually been presented.
You didn't merely claim the effects existed. You claimed they produced a specific magnitude result. But you can't actually back that up with anything.
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Old 8th October 2017, 03:19 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
No, abjectly wrong. Evidence for the mechanism I describe has actually been presented. I haven't argued that there are no other factors, no matter how many times you insist that I haven't considered any, that's still wrong.
I'm still waiting for you to explain exactly how much of an effect discrimination has, and how you calculated it. You've been running away from this question for days.
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Old 8th October 2017, 07:27 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You didn't merely claim the effects existed. You claimed they produced a specific magnitude result. But you can't actually back that up with anything.
Made no such claim. The claim was the extreme disparity is in line with and supports the factors I spoke of. I also listed how other evidence supports this such as the links by Emily's Cat and the reduction of disparity after specific changes in policy and culture (like men being expected to be more involved in child raising).

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm still waiting for you to explain exactly how much of an effect discrimination has, and how you calculated it. You've been running away from this question for days.
I already explained why that demand is nonsense, and I note again that you don't hold your own hypothesis to the same standard.


This repetition is unproductive.
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:31 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm still waiting for you to explain exactly how much of an effect discrimination has, and how you calculated it. You've been running away from this question for days.
Tucker Carlson asks this same kind of question to climate-change proponents and it always bugs me: exactly what percentage are human-produced GHG emissions affecting the climate? It's an impossible question, like asking: what, exactly, is the dollar amount someone has to have to be "rich" or exactly how much effect do cop killings of unarmed black men have on systemic racism?


Some things are obvious, have huge impacts, and still hard to quantify. You're not asking a serious question.
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Old 8th October 2017, 10:18 AM   #297
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Old 9th October 2017, 07:48 AM   #298
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Stats can be complete bullcrap used to bludgeon any position. Consider the following:

1) In the United States, the majority of new entrants into college are women.
2) In the United States, the majority of new graduate students are women.
3) In the United States, the VAST majority (i.e. 90%+) of prison inmates are men.

Considering these stats, it is clear that there is gender privilege here and it favors women........................

AM I DOING THIS RIGHT?
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Old 9th October 2017, 12:15 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
Stats can be complete bullcrap used to bludgeon any position. Consider the following:

1) In the United States, the majority of new entrants into college are women.
2) In the United States, the majority of new graduate students are women.
3) In the United States, the VAST majority (i.e. 90%+) of prison inmates are men.

Considering these stats, it is clear that there is gender privilege here and it favors women........................

AM I DOING THIS RIGHT?
Not only are you not right, you're not even wrong.

'Gender privilege' isn't a thing but a category of things. It isn't that a gender has privilege in everything.

How you could have read this thread and not noticed that there have been many examples of situations where women have privilege over men and still come to the conclusions you did is mystifying. If I remember correctly, incarceration and punishment disparities harming men has already even been listed.
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Old 9th October 2017, 01:08 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, I did not make a positive claim. I gave examples of the sort of possibilities one should consider, and probably it an exhaustive one at that. And no, you and he did not consider other factors in your cross-country comparison. You both declared, without evidence, that they are the same except for discrimination.
Please show me where I made that claim.
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Old 9th October 2017, 01:10 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Well discussion of one led to the other, but yes, it also requires that you think the only factor is discrimination.
Are you saying that Zig thinks that the only thing keeping women out of politics in the US is discrimination? That doesn't make any sense.
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Old 9th October 2017, 01:13 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
Stats can be complete bullcrap used to bludgeon any position. Consider the following:

1) In the United States, the majority of new entrants into college are women.
2) In the United States, the majority of new graduate students are women.
3) In the United States, the VAST majority (i.e. 90%+) of prison inmates are men.

Considering these stats, it is clear that there is gender privilege here and it favors women........................

AM I DOING THIS RIGHT?
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Not only are you not right, you're not even wrong.

'Gender privilege' isn't a thing but a category of things. It isn't that a gender has privilege in everything.

How you could have read this thread and not noticed that there have been many examples of situations where women have privilege over men and still come to the conclusions you did is mystifying. If I remember correctly, incarceration and punishment disparities harming men has already even been listed.
I believe that Crawtator's post was sarcastic... in which case, s/he's doing it right for the point s/he's making... I think. Not entirely certain though.
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Old 9th October 2017, 01:19 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Not only are you not right, you're not even wrong.

'Gender privilege' isn't a thing but a category of things. It isn't that a gender has privilege in everything.

How you could have read this thread and not noticed that there have been many examples of situations where women have privilege over men and still come to the conclusions you did is mystifying. If I remember correctly, incarceration and punishment disparities harming men has already even been listed.

Sorry....sarcasm isn't always obvious in typed words. I wrote it very sarcastically because it clearly IS NOT TRUE. For either side to cherry pick stats to support their position is ridiculous. Do I think there is possibly sexism by some? Yes. Do I think it is systemically perpetrated on the general populace by our government? No. If you can show me an example of a clearly preferential treatment towards males in any form or fashion that is systemic and not the product of an individual's actions, I'll be happy to support you. At the same time, if you will argue that sexual dimorphism doesn't play a large role in the differences we see between the sexes, I'm not sure that headway can be made.

We, as differently sexed human beings, are NOT THE SAME. Most girls throw like girls. Some outliers exist...I'm sure all female professional athletes could beat the snot out of me. But to simply ignore biology and dismiss all arguments based on some hypothetical 50% starting line seems dismissive and best.
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Old 9th October 2017, 01:20 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I believe that Crawtator's post was sarcastic... in which case, s/he's doing it right for the point s/he's making... I think. Not entirely certain though.
Yes. Thanks, EC!
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Old 9th October 2017, 01:58 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
If you can show me an example of a clearly preferential treatment towards males in any form or fashion that is systemic and not the product of an individual's actions, I'll be happy to support you.
https://hbr.org/2014/04/what-the-sca...lly-looks-like
https://www.morganmckinley.ie/articl...i-howard-study
http://www.iflscience.com/editors-bl...te-directions/
https://hbr.org/2015/03/the-5-biases...en-out-of-stem
http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474.full
http://www.pnas.org/content/111/12/4403.full

Some of these are the direct research, some are articles about research, with some degree of opinion expressed by the author.

Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
At the same time, if you will argue that sexual dimorphism doesn't play a large role in the differences we see between the sexes, I'm not sure that headway can be made.
Nobody has claimed that sexual dimprphism isn't a contributor. The only people making that claim are those using it as a strawman.
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Old 9th October 2017, 02:01 PM   #306
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Here's some food for thought:

https://www.wired.com/story/why-men-...as-in-science/

Quote:
Given the enormous amount of data to support these findings, and given the field in question, one might think male scientists would use these outcomes to create a more level playing field. But a recent paper showed that in fact, male STEM faculty assessed the quality of real research that demonstrated bias against women in STEM as being low; instead the male faculty favored fake research, designed for the purposes of the study in question, which purported to demonstrate that no such bias exists.
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Old 9th October 2017, 02:35 PM   #307
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Out of respect and, with a little bit of honesty thrown in, it'll take me awhile to get through those. I've skimmed through the first two and had a quick reaction in the form of a question about the Heidi-Howard print:

Is it not telling that the conceived gender bias associated with the changing of the names associated with both groups of both male and females a little weird? In other words: is it gender bias when the women hated Heidi as much as the men seemed to? What does that mean (for your argument....I know what it means, hehe)?
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Old 9th October 2017, 02:47 PM   #308
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EC:

The third article (http://www.iflscience.com/editors-bl...te-directions/) is actually very interesting and seems to straddle the fence about what these studies means. I cannot speak to the veracity of the contents, but you posed it as a source, so in my brief review, I will assume its contents to be correct (probably a bad strategy). A very interesting quote from halfway through:

"The paper argues that “numerous experimental findings” provide “copious evidence” of gender bias. But studies have found mixed evidence. For instance, the paper notes an experiment showing bias against female psychology tenure-track applicants. But experiments conducted 15+ years later show opposite results. In fact, several studies show a preference for female applicants in real-world faculty searches, not just hypothetical ones."

The graph that follows is interesting as well. These STEM fields showed a higher representation of job offers to women than their representation in their applicant pools, percentage wise. Does this represent gender bias towards women? What does this mean?
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:22 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
Out of respect and, with a little bit of honesty thrown in, it'll take me awhile to get through those. I've skimmed through the first two and had a quick reaction in the form of a question about the Heidi-Howard print:

Is it not telling that the conceived gender bias associated with the changing of the names associated with both groups of both male and females a little weird? In other words: is it gender bias when the women hated Heidi as much as the men seemed to? What does that mean (for your argument....I know what it means, hehe)?
It doesn't mean anything for my argument. I haven't argued that it's discrimination - it's implicit bias. I don't think you can find a post of mine 'blaming' anything on 'the patriarchy' I'm a feminist in the sense that I think there's no justifiable reason that men and women should NOT have equal opportunity for success and happiness in their lives. But I'm just as eager to argue for the rights of fathers in custody battles as I am to argue for the rights of women to be in charge of their own baby-making machinery.

Gender bias isn't limited to just men. It exists in a multitude of contexts, and it affects men, women, and everything in between. It's a reflection of social norms for what women and men are supposed to be like, how women and men are expected to behave in order to be considered feminine or masculine.
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:24 PM   #310
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You might want to re-evaluate the Heidi/Howard one EC.

They re did it 10 years later and got the opposite

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/ar...ul-men/273926/
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:29 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
EC:

The third article (http://www.iflscience.com/editors-bl...te-directions/) is actually very interesting and seems to straddle the fence about what these studies means. I cannot speak to the veracity of the contents, but you posed it as a source, so in my brief review, I will assume its contents to be correct (probably a bad strategy). A very interesting quote from halfway through:

"The paper argues that “numerous experimental findings” provide “copious evidence” of gender bias. But studies have found mixed evidence. For instance, the paper notes an experiment showing bias against female psychology tenure-track applicants. But experiments conducted 15+ years later show opposite results. In fact, several studies show a preference for female applicants in real-world faculty searches, not just hypothetical ones."

The graph that follows is interesting as well. These STEM fields showed a higher representation of job offers to women than their representation in their applicant pools, percentage wise. Does this represent gender bias towards women? What does this mean?
I haven't been involved in any of the studies, so I can only give you my opinion. I would guess that it's a bit of an over-correction. Prior studies showed a systemic bias against women in STEM roles, regardless of the gender of the faculty or hiring managers. Scientists don't really like having to acknowledge that they're biased (nobody does, usually, but scientists tend to consider themselves thoroughly objective, and it's always a bit of a shock to find that one is not as objective as one believed). I wouldn't be surprised if things swung too far the other direction, trying to compensate for that bias. It'll settle down and reach some sort of equilibrium (not necessarily equal representation though) at some point. I doubt it will take too long in STEM fields .

Personally, I also think there's likely to be a generational issue. I'm Gen-X, and I think my generation has done a lot of the fighting for this particular issue. Gen-Y & Millennials will still have some legacy bias to deal with. But by the time today's children are hitting their stride in the workforce, I expect most of it to be gone, and some semblance of balance to be reached. That doesn't mean that I stop arguing about it though - today's children will reap the benefit of the arguments that I have today.
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:33 PM   #312
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The other thing I would say for some of these studies is there is a tendency to carry them out with students.

The reason being presumably the broad range of diversity in the sample and the easy access

This is cool, but to me, this can't really be totally trusted as a data source as it isn't in an actual work place environment with a data sample of people who have actual real life experience in the workplace scenario they are trying to study. This experience is bound to have an affect on their opinions/feelings, and I thought the real world is what they are trying to gauge.





That last paragraph was a complete mess, so if you don't know what I mean it is entirely my fault
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:36 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You might want to re-evaluate the Heidi/Howard one EC.

They re did it 10 years later and got the opposite

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/ar...ul-men/273926/
I assume you're referencing this portion?
Quote:
A 2011 study published in Human Relations surveyed 60,000 full-time workers on their attitudes toward male versus female managers. At first, its conclusions seem to bolster Sandberg's claim that people are more accepting of successful men than successful women: Of the 46 percent of respondents who expressed a preference for their boss's gender, 72 percent said they wanted a male manager. But another aspect of the results highlights a flaw in the Heidi/Howard study: People who actually had female managers did not give them lower ratings than people who had male managers. That is, though many people preferred male managers in theory, in practice those gender biases did not play out.
First, it's not a repeat of the Heidi/Howard study. The Heidi/Howard study used the exact same case material with only the names changed. This study was a survey of attitudes relating to managers.

It does raise some interesting questions... but I don't think it invalidates the prior work. It's indicative of things moving in the right direction - and as long as we continue to discuss them, things will continue to move that way.

One of the things I find interesting is that the two types of responses occurred in the same survey - People with female managers don't rate them lower than male managers... But people still prefer to have a male manager.

Does that indicate that people see their female manager as an exception to their expectation? Is it a case of "Well, I'd rather have a male manager, but my particular female manager is pretty good."? Rather than seeing men and women as both being equally capable of managing... are they still basing an expectation on a male role, but considering their manager to be "different from normal women" instead of recognizing that their manager is a normal woman?
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:39 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The other thing I would say for some of these studies is there is a tendency to carry them out with students.

The reason being presumably the broad range of diversity in the sample and the easy access

This is cool, but to me, this can't really be totally trusted as a data source as it isn't in an actual work place environment with a data sample of people who have actual real life experience in the workplace scenario they are trying to study. This experience is bound to have an affect on their opinions/feelings, and I thought the real world is what they are trying to gauge.

That last paragraph was a complete mess, so if you don't know what I mean it is entirely my fault
I believe I follow you. I haven't seen a broad study done in the general workplace with respect to gender. There've been a lot of studies, and there may be some, but off-hand I don't have any stuffed in the corners of my brain.

There have been studies done with respect to race, and they've been done on a broad scale. I'm going to be lazy and not go fishing for it, but IIRC there was a study that sent out a large number of resumes for a wide variety of jobs. The resumes were done in pairs, where each of the resumes in the pair were identical, except that one had a traditionally "white" name, and the other had a traditionally "black" name. The "white" names were called and asked in for an interview at a statistically significantly higher rate than the "black" names were, even though the information on the resumes was identical.

If someone hasn't done the same thing with female/male, I would suggest they should!
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:44 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I assume you're referencing this portion?


First, it's not a repeat of the Heidi/Howard study. The Heidi/Howard study used the exact same case material with only the names changed. This study was a survey of attitudes relating to managers.

It does raise some interesting questions... but I don't think it invalidates the prior work. It's indicative of things moving in the right direction - and as long as we continue to discuss them, things will continue to move that way.

One of the things I find interesting is that the two types of responses occurred in the same survey - People with female managers don't rate them lower than male managers... But people still prefer to have a male manager.

Does that indicate that people see their female manager as an exception to their expectation? Is it a case of "Well, I'd rather have a male manager, but my particular female manager is pretty good."? Rather than seeing men and women as both being equally capable of managing... are they still basing an expectation on a male role, but considering their manager to be "different from normal women" instead of recognizing that their manager is a normal woman?
No. I am referring to the repeat of the study that includes a video under this

Quote:
In a recent segment for his show, CNN's Anderson Cooper had New York University's business school repeat the Heidi/Howard study, now ten years after it was originally conducted. This time around, students rated the female entrepreneur as more likable and desirable as a boss than the male:
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2017, 03:48 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I believe I follow you. I haven't seen a broad study done in the general workplace with respect to gender. There've been a lot of studies, and there may be some, but off-hand I don't have any stuffed in the corners of my brain.

There have been studies done with respect to race, and they've been done on a broad scale. I'm going to be lazy and not go fishing for it, but IIRC there was a study that sent out a large number of resumes for a wide variety of jobs. The resumes were done in pairs, where each of the resumes in the pair were identical, except that one had a traditionally "white" name, and the other had a traditionally "black" name. The "white" names were called and asked in for an interview at a statistically significantly higher rate than the "black" names were, even though the information on the resumes was identical.

If someone hasn't done the same thing with female/male, I would suggest they should!
Cheers

It may not even change the over all findings

I just kind of think that if you are going to study ###### in the (or a certain) workplace, it should probably be done in the workplace. Not with a bunch of students who most, I assume, have never been in a full time workplace environment.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2017, 04:06 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
No. I am referring to the repeat of the study that includes a video under this
Do you have a link to it? My reading seems to be broken!
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Old 9th October 2017, 04:35 PM   #318
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This is a direct link to the video

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...iment.cnn.html

Blokes still won the trust more though

Which is a bit odd
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 9th October 2017 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 10th October 2017, 04:19 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I already explained why that demand is nonsense
Yes by using an analogy that made no sense.

You've shown that you don't understand the issue or my request.
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Old 10th October 2017, 04:22 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Some things are obvious, have huge impacts, and still hard to quantify.
Unfalsifiable. You're making it both impossible to prove or disprove this claim, and heretical to even question it.

No, it is not obvious that because discimination exists, it is a major factor is representation disparity in a given field. We know other factors exist. If we cannot determine the impact of discrimination directly, it makes sense to eliminate the other factors to at least get an idea of its magnitude.

You want to ignore this crucial question because the odds are the impacts are very small, and it would disallow the constant outrage and victimhood.
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