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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 8th August 2017, 01:20 PM   #1721
William Parcher
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IMO, Blevins and Dfoot made the mistake of using dull fur rather than glossy. I believe that the Patty costume appears to have musculature because the highly glossy black fur creates a visual illusion in sunlight. It presents "contours" which aren't actually there.

That same synthetic fur may not be available anymore. It would seem to be Dynel, or a Dynel blend. I also think that the fur must be black and cannot be brown or reddish.
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Old 8th August 2017, 01:37 PM   #1722
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
IMO, Blevins and Dfoot made the mistake of using dull fur rather than glossy. I believe that the Patty costume appears to have musculature because the highly glossy black fur creates a visual illusion in sunlight. It presents "contours" which aren't actually there.

That same synthetic fur may not be available anymore. It would seem to be Dynel, or a Dynel blend. I also think that the fur must be black and cannot be brown or reddish.
Yeah, certainly for Blevins, his suit was far too dull and dark. I saw a clip before for a show on Blaze, not sure what it was called, but it seems to be about Bigfoot and Werewolves, and the clip was from the PGF; it was a really nice shot, probably one of the MK shots, and it struck me how dark the suit actually was.

I've no idea when it comes to materials for costumes, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Roger, or whoever, used some actual horse hide, as has been speculated. It has a nice sheen that plays well in the light.
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Old 8th August 2017, 01:46 PM   #1723
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Here's a closeup of Roger showing the Patty casts. They are thinner than I thought they'd be.

Look.
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Old 8th August 2017, 01:50 PM   #1724
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Yeah, certainly for Blevins, his suit was far too dull and dark.
Dark is good; dull is not good.

Quote:
I've no idea when it comes to materials for costumes, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Roger, or whoever, used some actual horse hide, as has been speculated. It has a nice sheen that plays well in the light.
Cleaned black bear fur has a similar color and gloss. IMO, horse hair is too short for Patty.
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Old 8th August 2017, 02:54 PM   #1725
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I don't know how a costume hoaxer would get their money back or make a profit. It's no longer a world like what Patterson did when you have to pay him before you get to see the Bigfoot.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:06 PM   #1726
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Only if they are not photographed or filmed. Commercial costumes can be readily identified by the way they look... just like recognizing a person that you know or have seen. That's how I busted the Georgia Boys. When I saw the costume face I knew I had already seen that face on a Bigfoot costume for sale on the web.

It would work better if you bought a good costume and then modified any distinctive features. Never use a costume right out of the box.
The back of the knees are usually a dead giveaway.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:40 PM   #1727
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't know how a costume hoaxer would get their money back or make a profit. It's no longer a world like what Patterson did when you have to pay him before you get to see the Bigfoot.
Todd Standing certainly tried. I would be curious to know how many footers footed (pun sort of intended) the bill for his exclusive "Sylvanic" DVDs.

I don't know of too many other bigfoot ongoing for money scams. But we cannot exclude things like Youtube where you get paid for clicks. Plenty of those around still. Albeit, they tend to be fraught with fringe type things like paranormal bigfoot stuff.
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Old 9th August 2017, 04:37 AM   #1728
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPt2osRpnM

This would have been a perfect opportunity to walk across the river in a suit.
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Old 9th August 2017, 09:14 AM   #1729
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Only if they are not photographed or filmed. Commercial costumes can be readily identified by the way they look... just like recognizing a person that you know or have seen. That's how I busted the Georgia Boys. When I saw the costume face I knew I had already seen that face on a Bigfoot costume for sale on the web.

It would work better if you bought a good costume and then modified any distinctive features. Never use a costume right out of the box.
I suspect that an actual good costume has to be rented, and therefore can't be customized.

Better to concentrate on a scenario that eliminates any good images of the suit, if you are on a budget.

And practice your "Patty walk", because that seems to be important to getting the believers riled up...
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:33 AM   #1730
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't know how a costume hoaxer would get their money back or make a profit. It's no longer a world like what Patterson did when you have to pay him before you get to see the Bigfoot.
True, but they could still do it for the hell of it. I think these days, the chances of making a profit on such a thing are pretty slim when compared to the late 60's when Roger was milking it.

There's still money to be made from this type of nonsense, but I don't think it lies in hoaxing, it's in merchandise and crypto funny-books by stone-cold douches like Nick Redfern.
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:41 AM   #1731
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Cleaned black bear fur has a similar color and gloss. IMO, horse hair is too short for Patty.

It could be black bear fur. The Patty fur has a weird, almost ox-blood leather look to it, as in it seems to look reddish at times.
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:43 AM   #1732
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPt2osRpnM

This would have been a perfect opportunity to walk across the river in a suit.
I need to send that guy my PGF version of Elvis's "In the Ghetto."
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Old 9th August 2017, 05:36 PM   #1733
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Tom Yams is the BF equivalent of Blues Traveler,

but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxpL9NZTgII
Rozwell Kid covered his song nicely
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Old 27th September 2017, 10:50 AM   #1734
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Loren Coleman's take on the passing of Philip Morris:

http://www.cryptozoonews.com/morris-obit/
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Old 27th September 2017, 02:29 PM   #1735
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In a sorta continuation of the discussion from the other thread...

I've maintained for a long time that Bigfooting (and its affiliated industries BLAARGing, WoodApery and Squatchin') exists today due solely to the existence of the PGF. The PGF essentially created the Bigfoot we know out of thin air and gave him to us to **** around with for the next thousand years. Yes it's empirically true Patterson didn't catch a real beast, but it's as if he really did.

And therein lies a problem I have with BF skeptics in general, their lack of respect for Patterson's...balls. And I don't mean in a "leave the poor guy alone" sense, but in a "you don't have a clue what you're disrespecting" sense. In a contest of who's better with 15 seconds of film, Stanley Kubrick had nothing on Patterson. Even more clear, Patterson was a YouTube® star (if not the first one) 40 YEARS before it ever came into being. Not a visionary? Really? Just a lucky opportunist? Like the Kardashians? He walked the film all over the ******* planet and made a million dollars (or whatever) doing it. In 1969!!! That's hardly being "lucky".

Don't let the country bumpkin in him fool ya, his was a clever, deliberate and very successful attempt at "fooling the world". And surprise, they're still talking about it today, including 37 different threads about it here in the forum. I propose that skeptics' regular downplaying of the efficacy of the PGF has been mostly just wishful thinking.
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Old 27th September 2017, 02:35 PM   #1736
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
In a sorta continuation of the discussion from the other thread...

I've maintained for a long time that Bigfooting (and its affiliated industries BLAARGing, WoodApery and Squatchin') exists today due solely to the existence of the PGF. The PGF essentially created the Bigfoot we know out of thin air and gave him to us to **** around with for the next thousand years. Yes it's empirically true Patterson didn't catch a real beast, but it's as if he really did.

And therein lies a problem I have with BF skeptics in general, their lack of respect for Patterson's...balls. And I don't mean in a "leave the poor guy alone" sense, but in a "you don't have a clue what you're disrespecting" sense. In a contest of who's better with 15 seconds of film, Stanley Kubrick had nothing on Patterson. Even more clear, Patterson was a YouTube® star (if not the first one) 40 YEARS before it ever came into being. Not a visionary? Really? Just a lucky opportunist? Like the Kardashians? He walked the film all over the ******* planet and made a million dollars (or whatever) doing it. In 1969!!! That's hardly being "lucky".

Don't let the country bumpkin in him fool ya, his was a clever, deliberate and very successful attempt at "fooling the world". And surprise, they're still talking about it today, including 37 different threads about it here in the forum. I propose that skeptics' regular downplaying of the efficacy of the PGF has been mostly just wishful thinking.
I wouldn't really go all out and compare Patterson to Kubrick, lol, but I get that he did quite a thing and did it well, but it's not like he came up with those ideas, he actually mostly stole them.

I think in terms of hoaxing, Mike Barrett, who created the so-called "Diary of Jack the Ripper" actually pulled off a better and more convincing hoax, and he, too, was a mere simple man, according to the naysayers.

Patterson, to my mind, was a desperate man in a desperate situation, and he badly wanted to provide for his wife and his family, and he did that well, so credit to him.
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Old 27th September 2017, 02:55 PM   #1737
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I wouldn't really go all out and compare Patterson to Kubrick, lol, but I get that he did quite a thing and did it well, but it's not like he came up with those ideas, he actually mostly stole them.

I think in terms of hoaxing, Mike Barrett, who created the so-called "Diary of Jack the Ripper" actually pulled off a better and more convincing hoax, and he, too, was a mere simple man, according to the naysayers.

Patterson, to my mind, was a desperate man in a desperate situation, and he badly wanted to provide for his wife and his family, and he did that well, so credit to him.
Patterson, like Barnum (and many others) understood the true nature of human credulity.
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Old 28th September 2017, 05:29 AM   #1738
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Patterson actually started the most important part about the Bigfoot myth, the ability to pass stories on to thousands of people, before the internet.

He started the club, got the mailing list, had people send in stories (free material for his book) sent out some news letters.

It was basically the BFF before the internet.
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Old 28th September 2017, 11:15 AM   #1739
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Loren Coleman's take on the passing of Philip Morris:

http://www.cryptozoonews.com/morris-obit/
This is very sad news for me. Philip Morris was a very special person to me. Philip and his wife Amy came to my hometown Victoria, BC back in 2010 to do an interview for a documentary project I was working on at the time to discuss their selling of one of their custom gorilla suits to Roger Patterson in August 1967.

We did our interview in the media room of the Harbour View Marriott Hotel. When we did the interview I had two pages of questions I had requested from the Bigfoot believer community with the intent that the questions would invalidate his claim of having sold Patterson a gorilla costume. Morris agreed to answer the questions live on camera without being shown the questions first.

At the time, I was most interested in speaking with Amy Morris, Philip's wife, who was responsible for the actual manufacture of the costumes, and who had a far better recollection of Patterson's order. Before my filmed interview at Thunderbird Park with Philip, I was able to speak with Amy alone and get her recollections without Philip possibly guiding her responses in any way.

I do not think the costume that Patterson ordered from the Morris's was the one used in the PGF but I have no doubt Patterson did purchase a suit from them.

I regard Philip as a kindred spirit who shared a deep love of Halloween and entertaining children.

He is deeply missed.

Rest in fun.
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Old 28th September 2017, 02:23 PM   #1740
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Yep, sad to hear about Morris's passing. That's one less person who was at least somewhat knowledgable about what Patterson produced. There are a few more left, the DeAtleys, the Pattersons (Patricia and kids), the Gimlins. If after 50 years they haven't busted out with a reveal, it's unlikely that they will before they also die off. Which could be any at time considering their ages. And considering their advanced ages and current health issues, if someone wants an audience with any of the remaining principles, they ought to start pounding on their doors with some sort of convincing reason that they should open up and finally tell the truth. At this point, what could it hurt?

As far as honoring the PGF with a remake, that's not likely to happen any time soon either. The footers who really, desperately want another appearance of the beast to vindicate their beliefs are too lazy to put in the effort necessary, like making something with their hands, and if they DID make a convincing video to rival the PGF, they'd have then become their worst enemy. A successful hoax would prove it could be done, and thus cast even more doubt on Patty's authenticity. Believers are not likely to make a new video.

Skeptics would then be the ones to do it, but then again skeptics know all too well how easy it is to debunk a hoaxed film, and while they might be able to anticipate their community's ability to debunk their video, the likelihood of being outed might make the prospect unappealing. Outing one of your own and tossing them to the believer dogs; that's something to consider as a deterrent.

I don't see a new video or film happening, unless it is produced by a non-believer believer. Someone who belongs to the believer camp but secretly does not believe, and who would make a film to increase their status. That's sort of where most of the evidence has come from over the past decade or so. Believers wanting to climb their social ladders.
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Old 29th September 2017, 09:50 AM   #1741
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Originally Posted by Tontar View Post
Yep, sad to hear about Morris's passing. That's one less person who was at least somewhat knowledgable about what Patterson produced. There are a few more left, the DeAtleys, the Pattersons (Patricia and kids), the Gimlins. If after 50 years they haven't busted out with a reveal, it's unlikely that they will before they also die off. Which could be any at time considering their ages. And considering their advanced ages and current health issues, if someone wants an audience with any of the remaining principles, they ought to start pounding on their doors with some sort of convincing reason that they should open up and finally tell the truth. At this point, what could it hurt?
There's honestly no reason for anyone other than Gimlin to open up about any of it, and it's very unlikely that he'd ever bother, because he's currently still doing the rounds with his one-hit wonder roadshow and is earning his beer money while doing it.

The Patterson kids and his wife likely have no interest in any of it, and no desire to be dragged into the mire of Bigfootery, and who could blame them? There's so many overgrown gimps and geeks in this field that can't seem to live a stable life without running off into the local scrubland to knock on trees and pretend to find footprints in the mud. Beyond this very small niche market of sceptics and lunatics, the PGF is nothing but a little insignificant piece of pop-culture that nobody generally gives a toss about.

As far as the world is concerned, the PGF has been an obvious hoax since it first aired. Nobody honestly seems to care who filmed it or who wore the suit, only us few people who are remotely interested would enjoy such a thing as a follow-up documentary.

I think that places such as this forum, and the obvious Bigfoot forums, have generally over-hyped the PGF and Bigfoot, and it's also obviously down to television taking interest in it, as it always seems to do every few years, like with every other monster/cryptid.

Monsters in general are a good little way for TV networks to cash in on some throw-away television that asks the same old questions asked in every other paranormal show ever: does X exist? and the answer is always the same: we just don't know, which generally translates to it doesn't seem to exist but we can keep making shows about it.

Bigfoot will always have a small place in the world of television, just like aliens will, but its popularity will wane like every other interest for television-viewers.

Beyond that small, niche market for monster shows on television, people just do not care about Bigfoot, and they certainly do not care about the PGF.
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Old 29th September 2017, 09:54 AM   #1742
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Patterson, like Barnum (and many others) understood the true nature of human credulity.
Patterson was definitely the kind of guy who knew how to get people interested in something, and then he'd take advantage of that interest.

I think he'd have made a great car-salesman.
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Old 29th September 2017, 10:26 AM   #1743
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
There's honestly no reason for anyone other than Gimlin to open up about any of it, and it's very unlikely that he'd ever bother, because he's currently still doing the rounds with his one-hit wonder roadshow and is earning his beer money while doing it.
Judy Gimlin may be motivated to speak about the hoax and maybe show things if she outlives her husband. We know that she is hostile towards Bob's involvement with Bigfootery. She probably knows that it was a hoax and might be in a position to provide evidence for that.

If Bob dies with her alive and well - there are going to be people who descend on her for media stories, memories, "tell us about Bob" and such. She might simply respond with "it was a hoax of course, here are some details of that hoax, and now please go away and leave me alone."

Bob may have conversations with Judy about what to do about the PGF topic after he dies. He might be able to set her up to make lots of money by having the confession and explanation (with evidence) happen after he dies with her getting all the money from that.
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Old 30th September 2017, 04:59 PM   #1744
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Former FX artist Bill Munns is now running a sweatshop/workshop in Vietnam . Trying out a 'deep/machine learning' patent.

It will provide Mr. Munns Bigfoot bucks because:

"I am 100% positive and confident the PGF is an authentic filming of a real encounter with a biologically novel entity, and is not a faked film with a human in a costume. I have explored a tremendous number of ways a film could be faked, and what indications of such might be analyzed, and found zero indications of such in the film. I have considered many indicators of what would be consistent with a true and spontaneously filmed event, and find many indications consistent with a true event."


http://bigfootforums.com/topic/57439...update/?page=2

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Old 30th September 2017, 05:40 PM   #1745
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Way to go Bill....you've given it a lot of thought....yeah it must be real, because you know...you've thought about it a lot.
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:52 PM   #1746
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
I regard Philip as a kindred spirit who shared a deep love of Halloween and entertaining children.

He is deeply missed.
Please accept my condolences, Kaze. I knew you had met Morris, but not that you had developed a real friendship. I'll raise a glass to his memory tonight.
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Old 1st October 2017, 06:35 PM   #1747
HarryHenderson
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Originally Posted by Squatchy McSquatch View Post
Former FX artist Bill Munns is now running a sweatshop/workshop in Vietnam . Trying out a 'deep/machine learning' patent.

It will provide Mr. Munns Bigfoot bucks because:

"I am 100% positive and confident the PGF is an authentic filming of a real encounter with a biologically novel entity, and is not a faked film with a human in a costume. I have explored a tremendous number of ways a film could be faked, and what indications of such might be analyzed, and found zero indications of such in the film. I have considered many indicators of what would be consistent with a true and spontaneously filmed event, and find many indications consistent with a true event."

http://bigfootforums.com/topic/57439...update/?page=2
He's without even a hint of shame. Munns seems to think his opinion operates at some sort of higher level than objective reality. Despite his insistence that he's right about everything, he perpetually fails to acknowledge any understanding whatsoever of the ramifications of claiming such. He somehow determines that's a real, novel beast, can't explain a single thing about it, and goes on his merry way. How does he get that luxury? Because he worked in Hollywood and you didn't! Damnit he knows what can and can't be filmed, and what was filmed in 1968 can't be filmed even though it was filmed. I guess.

Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Way to go Bill....you've given it a lot of thought....yeah it must be real, because you know...you've thought about it a lot.
I'm positive being the mental midget he is that Munns still misses the irony of spending so much time only writing about not being able to build such a beast instead of determining he's not able to build such a beast by actually trying to build such a beast. Apparently he's so good that he simply doesn't have any need to build things anymore. He's such a "deep thinker" that he can now just imagine them to death and then be satisfied that he's the best costumer the planet has ever known. He's really in the next dimension compared to these fools who still use things like sewing machines.

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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:35 AM   #1748
kitakaze
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Please accept my condolences, Kaze. I knew you had met Morris, but not that you had developed a real friendship. I'll raise a glass to his memory tonight.
He was a really awesome person who loved Halloween possibly even more than me, if it's possible. He loved delighting people and giving people a sense of wonder. He shared that passion with James Randi, a fellow magician.

He will be regarded by the Cult of Bigfoot as a vile person who looked to gain attention from the PGF. They could not be a more clueless subculture of fundamentalist nuts.

He brought a massive amount of joy in the world and just happened to sell Roger Patterson one of the gorilla suits made by his wife back in August 1967. He thinks the PGF was that suit. I think it was something else that may or may not have cannibalized parts of that suit.

It was 50 years ago and we can't say for sure. Bluff Creek, meanwhile, 50 years later has been extensively game-cam surveilled by hopeful Bigfooters for years now and nothing.

And always nothing.

The cult is the bizarre creature worthy of study in lieu of any reliable evidence for Bigfoot.
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Last edited by kitakaze; 2nd October 2017 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 01:30 PM   #1749
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Judy Gimlin may be motivated to speak about the hoax and maybe show things if she outlives her husband. We know that she is hostile towards Bob's involvement with Bigfootery. She probably knows that it was a hoax and might be in a position to provide evidence for that.

If Bob dies with her alive and well - there are going to be people who descend on her for media stories, memories, "tell us about Bob" and such. She might simply respond with "it was a hoax of course, here are some details of that hoax, and now please go away and leave me alone."

Bob may have conversations with Judy about what to do about the PGF topic after he dies. He might be able to set her up to make lots of money by having the confession and explanation (with evidence) happen after he dies with her getting all the money from that.
There's a chance that Mrs. Gimlin could step forward in that scenario, but I tend to get the idea that she truly cannot be arsed with the entire situation and would preferably like to stay away from it.

I think if she had the chance to out her husband, I'm not sure she'd do it.

There's always a chance that someone may choose to speak up, but I just can't see it happening any time soon, if ever. That may be the pessimistic Brit inside of me! I ate one last week.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:03 AM   #1750
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Originally Posted by Squatchy McSquatch View Post
Former FX artist Bill Munns is now running a sweatshop/workshop in Vietnam . Trying out a 'deep/machine learning' patent.

It will provide Mr. Munns Bigfoot bucks because:

"I am 100% positive and confident the PGF is an authentic filming of a real encounter with a biologically novel entity, and is not a faked film with a human in a costume. I have explored a tremendous number of ways a film could be faked, and what indications of such might be analyzed, and found zero indications of such in the film. I have considered many indicators of what would be consistent with a true and spontaneously filmed event, and find many indications consistent with a true event."


http://bigfootforums.com/topic/57439...update/?page=2
Wow he really hates all of you skeptics here.

I'm glad I was one of the good ones.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 01:44 PM   #1751
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Wow he really hates all of you skeptics here.

I'm glad I was one of the good ones.
I/we can't read what's on that BFF link because we're not members. The link sends me to the BFF's "No Permission" page. Anyone care to further delineate what we're missing?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:15 PM   #1752
Squatchy McSquatch
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
I/we can't read what's on that BFF link because we're not members. The link sends me to the BFF's "No Permission" page. Anyone care to further delineate what we're missing?
Former forum member/former fx guy returns to Bigfootery with a chip still on his shoulders. Still the skeptics' fault. This forum was mean to him. 100% not a guy in a suit, but not necessarily a Bigfeet either.

Doubling down on stupid for 10 years now.

That's it in a nutshell Harry.

It's been a slow year for Bigfoot.
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Old 4th October 2017, 01:43 PM   #1753
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Also:

The PGF hominin is 100% not a guy in a suit

But could be a human female with hypertrichosis.

Still reluctant to use the term bigfoot or sasquatch.
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Old 4th October 2017, 02:22 PM   #1754
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Squatchy McSquatch View Post
But could be a human female with hypertrichosis.
What about the conehead and enormous feet?
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Old 4th October 2017, 02:49 PM   #1755
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A wiglet and oversized hairy maryjanes.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:51 PM   #1756
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Originally Posted by Squatchy McSquatch View Post
Also:

The PGF hominin is 100% not a guy in a suit

But could be a human female with hypertrichosis.

Still reluctant to use the term bigfoot or sasquatch.
How tall is it?
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:33 AM   #1757
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How tall is it?

Yet to be determined.
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:41 AM   #1758
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About the same height as Bob Heironimus inside a Bigfoot costume.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:40 AM   #1759
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
About the same height as Bob Heironimus inside a Bigfoot costume.
Would that be either 4'9" or 7'4" by chance?

No?

But jiggly boobies in body paint might help with that.
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Old 6th October 2017, 05:07 PM   #1760
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Kitakaze

so you feel that Patterson bought the suit and either made modifications to it for the PGF or used it for something else and studied the construction to help make his own suit?
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