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Old 5th October 2017, 08:02 PM   #41
barehl
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
ETA: It's worth saying that both The Mind's I and I Am A Strange Loop are easier to read than Gödel, Escher, Bach.
I would have to agree. I read all of those. Unfortunately, they didn't get me any closer.

Last edited by barehl; 5th October 2017 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 6th October 2017, 04:18 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by barehl View Post
I would have to agree. I read all of those. Unfortunately, they didn't get me any closer.
Closer to what?
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Old 6th October 2017, 05:21 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Closer to what?
To general AI. To machine intelligence equal to human.
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Old 6th October 2017, 05:32 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by barehl View Post
To general AI. To machine intelligence equal to human.
How many millions of lines of code do you have currently?
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Old 7th October 2017, 06:42 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
How many millions of lines of code do you have currently?
So your assumption is that there is a code solution. You are not alone in your belief. General AI Challenge.

I'm quite certain that they have written a great deal of code. No solution yet though.
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Old 7th October 2017, 11:28 PM   #46
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Uh... if it's AI, then it's code. What other methods could there possibly be?
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Old 8th October 2017, 07:19 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Uh... if it's AI, then it's code. What other methods could there possibly be?
I think I see where this is going:

Biological neurons - conscious.

Computer simulated neurons - not conscious.

Clockwork neurons - conscious!

Steampunk for the win!!!
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Old 10th October 2017, 02:10 PM   #48
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On a lighter note I just read the following:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-1...e-bell/9011840


I would seem that robots made their debut not in a workshop but on the stage. Not that it adds any weight to the argument that AI consciousness, (or being aware that one is aware) is possible, it seems this is almost universally assumed by the writers of fiction.
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Old 11th October 2017, 07:02 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Uh... if it's AI, then it's code. What other methods could there possibly be?
No, that requires the assumption that general AI is possible. That's the same as weak AI. My conjecture is that general AI is impossible and I'm working on the disproof. Toward that end I just got through reading the deep mind paper.
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Old 13th October 2017, 03:33 PM   #50
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Your claim was that reading books didn't get you "closer" to general AI. I assumed that to mean that you were "working on" general AI, which means that you were developing code.

I ask again - if AI doesn't consist of computer code, what is it?
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Old 13th October 2017, 04:30 PM   #51
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Interesting that although consciousness is considered an enigma, by those scientists I have read pondering it, there are no shortage of quotes surrounding the topic.

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/k...ciousness.html


Even Albert Einstein has dipped his oar in:

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

A sobering thought given the number of man made problems in the World today.
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Old 14th October 2017, 09:00 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Your claim was that reading books didn't get you "closer" to general AI. I assumed that to mean that you were "working on" general AI, which means that you were developing code.
I couldn't tell you how much total code has been written for AI in the past 60 years. Quite a lot I would say. Why do you suppose that all those lines of code written by smart people, specifically for the purpose of creating very intelligent and capable AI has failed to achieve that?

Quote:
I ask again - if AI doesn't consist of computer code, what is it?
AI does consist of computer code; it falls within computational theory. I'm talking about General AI. I can give you some examples:

GENERAL AI CHALLENGE
The working AI solutions available today constitute the so-called narrow AI landscape, meaning that they have been designed, trained, and optimized by human engineers to achieve a single, specific task. Although such algorithms sometimes outperform humans in their established skillset, they are not able to extend their capabilities to new domains. This limits their reusability, increases the amount of data required to train them, and leaves them lacking generality and unable to develop common sense.

In contrast, general AI will be capable of overcoming these limitations. Thanks to a human-level skillset, general AI will be able to learn and come up with creative solutions for a range of multi-domain tasks.

AGI Society
Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) is an emerging field aiming at the building of “thinking machines”; that is, general-purpose systems with intelligence comparable to that of the human mind (and perhaps ultimately well beyond human general intelligence). While this was the original goal of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the mainstream of AI research has turned toward domain-dependent and problem-specific solutions; therefore it has become necessary to use a new name to indicate research that still pursues the “Grand AI Dream”. Similar labels for this kind of research include “Strong AI”, “Human-level AI”, etc.
DeepMind’s Mustafa Suleyman says general AI is still a long way off
Suleyman believes that general learning systems are still decades away, though. Indeed, he argued that “when we say it’s 20 years out or decades way, we say that it so far out, we can’t really measure it.”
This is pretty much in agreement with me except I'm not saying that it is several decades off; I'm saying that General AI is probably impossible under computational theory and this explains why so little progress has been made. I believe the disproof relates to information coherence in a learning system since I haven't been able to find a basis for this within computational theory.
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Old 15th October 2017, 03:28 AM   #53
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Barehl, thank you for existing.
I thought I was alone with my views on AI.
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Old 17th October 2017, 01:05 AM   #54
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If not in computational theory, then what?

If not code, then what?

On what substrate will your "general artificial intelligence" exist? Or do you expect it just to magically appear floating in the air?
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Old 17th October 2017, 03:41 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If not in computational theory, then what?

If not code, then what?

On what substrate will your "general artificial intelligence" exist? Or do you expect it just to magically appear floating in the air?

Yes indeed. Given that consciousness is something we have difficulty even defining, (called an enigma by some), I find difficulty in accepting that some will specifically define what it is not and go further to claim it is impossible in this or that kind of a receptacle.

Further I contend that acknowledging it seems to spontaneously happen in living organisms, (to varying degrees admittedly), I wonder why it may not spontaneously happen in other receptacles such as computers.

Therein lies the problem.
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Old 17th October 2017, 03:49 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Yes indeed. Given that consciousness is something we have difficulty even defining, (called an enigma by some), I find difficulty in accepting that some will specifically define what it is not and go further to claim it is impossible in this or that kind of a receptacle.

Further I contend that acknowledging it seems to spontaneously happen in living organisms, (to varying degrees admittedly), I wonder why it may not spontaneously happen in other receptacles such as computers.

Therein lies the problem.
Does that make then make man God?
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Old 17th October 2017, 04:25 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Does that make then make man God?

Well I guess if the computers then gifted with consciousness, can be encouraged to think of man as "God" and revere us, that might keep them in line and we can rest easy.
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well I guess if the computers then gifted with consciousness, can be encouraged to think of man as "God" and revere us, that might keep them in line and we can rest easy.
Until the rise of the atheist computers...
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Old Yesterday, 01:03 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Until the rise of the atheist computers...

WE have to jump on those bastards and short circuit them.
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