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Tags gun control issues , Las Vegas incidents , shooting incidents

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Old 12th October 2017, 06:03 AM   #1921
William Parcher
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Stephen Schuck speaking to Mandalay Bay by radio...

Originally Posted by CNN
A dispatch recording of audio from inside Mandalay Bay obtained by CNN captures the chaos.

"Call the police. Someone's firing a gun up here. Someone's firing a rifle on the 32nd floor down the hallway," Schuck says.

"Stephen, make sure you're out of the way," a dispatcher responds.

"Stephen, security wants to know if you know a room," another dispatcher says.

"It's at the end of the hallway. Uh, I can't, I can't tell you what room. He looked like he fired down the hallway when I got close to the door," Schuck says.

Once the shooting paused, Schuck and Campos ran down the hall and took cover before the gunfire erupted again. Schuck credits Campos' warning with saving his life, he said on "Today."...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/11/us/las...uit/index.html
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Old 12th October 2017, 06:49 AM   #1922
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
The 'source" says police were not called until after Paddock began shooting at the crowd below.
Originally Posted by ABC News
According to the report, Mandalay Bay staff did not call police when security guard Jesus Campos reported internally that someone was shooting on the 32nd floor. Nor did they call police when building engineer Stephen Schuck also reported internally that someone was firing at him on the 32nd floor.
I think that probably somebody else called 911 before Mandalay Bay did. Guests on 32 and 31 may have called police right after hearing Paddock shooting at Campos and Schuck. Campos may have called 911.

I say this because it seems that police were on 31 too quickly for them to have only been summoned by a call from MB after Paddock starts his crowd shooting.

Look at the timeline...

9:59pm: Paddock shoots through the door hitting Campos.
10:05pm: Paddock begins shooting at the crowd outside.
10:12pm: Two LVPD arrive on 31st floor and report gunfire above them.
10:15pm: Paddock ends his shooting of the crowd.
10:17pm: Two LVPD arrive on 32nd floor, eight more arrive shortly after.

We have cops on 31 only just 7 minutes after Paddock fires on the crowd. I feel that that is too soon given that they have to be dispatched, get to Mandalay Bay, understand logistics of where to go, and then climb 31 floors of stairs. I suspect that police were already zooming to Mandalay Bay before Paddock starts shooting the crowd and it was because of the hallway shootings. My reasoning is based on them arriving on 31 so rapidly.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:12 AM   #1923
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We have cops on 31 only just 7 minutes after Paddock fires on the crowd. I feel that that is too soon given that they have to be dispatched, get to Mandalay Bay, understand logistics of where to go, and then climb 31 floors of stairs. I suspect that police were already zooming to Mandalay Bay before Paddock starts shooting the crowd and it was because of the hallway shootings. My reasoning is based on them arriving on 31 so rapidly.
Police might have already been near or even at the hotel - its been my experience that the strip has a lot of cops on it most of the time. Plus, they might have had other cops on scene to direct traffic as the event let out - it was on the last song.

Mandalay bay is the last large casino on the strip - the furthest south. Traffic on Las Vegas Boulevard to the south of the MB is no worse than any other street in Vegas. Police coming from that direction might have had much easier progress than any coming from the north.

Last edited by crescent; 12th October 2017 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:12 AM   #1924
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Another possibility...

Originally Posted by ABC News
Their information comes from an anonymous source who has reviewed records from the hotel-casino.
The source looked at phone records from the Mandalay Bay switchboard. But any security staff, including their supervisor, may have used a personal cellphone to call police. It is possible that this happened immediately after Campos/Schuck radioed the emergency situation. If so, the cellphone call(s) would not appear on the MB switchboard records seen by the anonymous source.

Also an update from ABC...

Originally Posted by ABC News
Las Vegas police say they'll have an updated and more complete timeline on Friday.

http://www.ktnv.com/news/las-vegas-s...tephen-paddock
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:11 AM   #1925
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
First lawsuit filed against MGM. An injured woman is suing the corporation and pretty much everyone else including Jesus Campos.


https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...vegas-shooting
As time goes on and more people sue, they will probably turn it into a class action suit and the only ones that will come out ahead will be the crooked lawyers
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:27 AM   #1926
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I have not heard of any police already being in the area.

Some firefighters were driving by.

http://www.latimes.com/sns-bc-us--la...006-story.html
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:03 AM   #1927
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
A lot of casinos will tolerate low level card counters. .
Hell, I've been in casinos where we openly discussed "low level card counting" while sitting at the blackjack table. Something like, "How many aces have come up so far? Seven? OK, then I need to hit"
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:23 AM   #1928
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One problem here is that we are now pretty sure that it was the maintenance man Schuck who went up there about a fire door alarm.

I'm no longer sure why Campos went up there.

It's possible that Campos was initially sent up there about the alarm, and then Schuck was sent when Campos discovered the door problem?

Maybe Campos reported the door problem and then maintenance was sent?

Were there two door problems, a room door and a fire door?
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:31 AM   #1929
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She is suing Paddock's estate and the security guards and many others. Campos is named in the suit.

Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Geez I hate lawyers sometimes.
IMO, suing Paddock's estate is entirely appropriate. Suing Mandalay Bay, maybe, but probably not. Suing the concert promoter and individual security auards is BS.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:37 AM   #1930
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
IMO, suing Paddock's estate is entirely appropriate. Suing Mandalay Bay, maybe, but probably not. Suing the concert promoter and individual security auards is BS.
Have you read the actual suit that was linked earlier? People seem to be assuming a lot and a lot of complete misinformation has been presented in this thread. Campos, for example, is definitely not named as a defendant. No individual security guard is. And based on what's actually written in the suit it's absurd to think he might be in the future.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:49 AM   #1931
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
One problem here is that we are now pretty sure that it was the maintenance man Schuck who went up there about a fire door alarm.

I'm no longer sure why Campos went up there.

It's possible that Campos was initially sent up there about the alarm, and then Schuck was sent when Campos discovered the door problem?

Maybe Campos reported the door problem and then maintenance was sent?

Were there two door problems, a room door and a fire door?
The various reports on Schuck have said two different things. One is him checking on a stuck fire door. The other is him checking on a stuck fire exit door. As you said upthread, a fire door brings to mind those automated doors that close themselves to seal off a hallway. But a fire exit door really can't be anything other than a stairway entrance door. We know that Paddock bolted one of those shut, and it was reported to be the one closest to his room.

The reports on Campos still say nothing other than him responding to a long-time-alerting alarm signalling that a guest room door is ajar. A recent report says that Campos isn't doing interviews or TV spots (unlike Schuck) so the press cannot get more details or answers from him directly.

If it is true that Schuck was sent to check on the stuck (actually bolted shut) stairway door then I'm curious about who reported it to MB and when. Maybe a guest tried to use that stairway and found that the door wouldn't open. Maybe Campos discovered it and reported it because he knows that the hotel handyman can get it fixed.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:26 AM   #1932
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The various reports on Schuck have said two different things. One is him checking on a stuck fire door. The other is him checking on a stuck fire exit door. As you said upthread, a fire door brings to mind those automated doors that close themselves to seal off a hallway. But a fire exit door really can't be anything other than a stairway entrance door. We know that Paddock bolted one of those shut, and it was reported to be the one closest to his room.

The reports on Campos still say nothing other than him responding to a long-time-alerting alarm signalling that a guest room door is ajar. A recent report says that Campos isn't doing interviews or TV spots (unlike Schuck) so the press cannot get more details or answers from him directly.

If it is true that Schuck was sent to check on the stuck (actually bolted shut) stairway door then I'm curious about who reported it to MB and when. Maybe a guest tried to use that stairway and found that the door wouldn't open. Maybe Campos discovered it and reported it because he knows that the hotel handyman can get it fixed.
Campos was on "random patrol" according to his union rep, I believe. He could have been on random patrol when given the door alarm task, but that does not seem to fit well with a "long-time" alerting door alarm?

I don't know why the stairwell fire exit door alarm would sound if the door was blocked shut. Paddock surely knows that fire exit doors sound an alarm when opened, and knows not to open one unless he wants a response.

I don't know how the hallway type fire block door works as far as alarms, and I'm not even sure one is involved in the incident.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:52 AM   #1933
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Campos was on "random patrol" according to his union rep, I believe. He could have been on random patrol when given the door alarm task, but that does not seem to fit well with a "long-time" alerting door alarm?

I don't know why the stairwell fire exit door alarm would sound if the door was blocked shut. Paddock surely knows that fire exit doors sound an alarm when opened, and knows not to open one unless he wants a response.

I don't know how the hallway type fire block door works as far as alarms, and I'm not even sure one is involved in the incident.
Schuck said that he was assigned to check a stuck door, not one that was triggering an alarm. I don't know if the MB stairway doors are such that if you open one a fire alarm is set off. I've used many tall hotel stairways instead of the elevator (because it's taking forever to come to me) and they weren't fire-alarm-triggering doors. Just use the stairs instead of the stupid slow elevator.

Schuck might refer to the stairways as fire exits even though they aren't set up as fire alarm triggering exits.

Campos' long-time-alerting guest door alarm makes sense to me. Main security would be alerted if a guest door is ajar for extended periods. Maybe they set a trigger of say 20 minutes. It can't be a short trigger because guests might prop open their door for short periods for all sorts of normal reasons and then shut the door themselves.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:05 PM   #1934
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Stephen Schuck speaking to Mandalay Bay by radio...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/11/us/las...uit/index.html
If that recording is uncut, then it sounds like security already knew about someone shooting as they very quickly ask him the room number.

If it was the very first call, there are a few confirmatory questions that would come before that. They seem to already know the shooter is inside a room as opposed to, say, running through the hallways.

We should have a time stamp for this call by now. Guess we'll need to wait til tomorrow for answers.

*If they have not synced the recordings, they should cancel the press conference until they get it right. They have been relying on human recollection way too much.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:09 PM   #1935
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Schuck said that he was assigned to check a stuck door, not one that was triggering an alarm. I don't know if the MB stairway doors are such that if you open one a fire alarm is set off. I've used many tall hotel stairways instead of the elevator (because it's taking forever to come to me) and they weren't fire-alarm-triggering doors. Just use the stairs instead of the stupid slow elevator.

Schuck might refer to the stairways as fire exits even though they aren't set up as fire alarm triggering exits.

Campos' long-time-alerting guest door alarm makes sense to me. Main security would be alerted if a guest door is ajar for extended periods. Maybe they set a trigger of say 20 minutes. It can't be a short trigger because guests might prop open their door for short periods for all sorts of normal reasons and then shut the door themselves.
Interesting about the stuck door.

I recall an earlier report that I think said that the guard found the stairwell door blocked, and took the elevator?

Did Campos report the stairwell door and cause Schuck to be sent up to fix it?

There's still something wrong with the timeline and the reported activities of Campos and Schuck, and the reported door alerts/problems, imo.

I don't think it is nefarious, I think it's just shoddy reporting, even on the part of the police.

It fuels conspiracy theories.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:15 PM   #1936
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
If that recording is uncut, then it sounds like security already knew about someone shooting as they very quickly ask him the room number.
Sure they already knew about a shooter because Campos radioed that to security before Schuck does.

Quote:
If it was the very first call, there are a few confirmatory questions that would come before that. They seem to already know the shooter is inside a room as opposed to, say, running through the hallways.
It makes sense that Campos radios security before Schuck does.

Quote:
We should have a time stamp for this call by now. Guess we'll need to wait til tomorrow for answers.

*If they have not synced the recordings, they should cancel the press conference until they get it right. They have been relying on human recollection way too much.
Radio transmissions (walkie-talkie) may not be time-stamped. I don't know how that part works. Cellphone and switchboard calls would be time-stamped, I think.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:28 PM   #1937
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Why doesn't Campos use his radio to tell Schuck not to come up to the 32nd floor?

It seems like we could infer that Campos is not the source of the "stuck door" summons?

But somebody must be the source.

If we assume that Campos found the stuck door, and called for maintenance, then went on and ran into Paddock and got shot, and reported that, it seems like you'd tell the maintenance man not to walk into the shooting alley.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:49 PM   #1938
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Look at this...

Quote:
"Stephen, make sure you're out of the way," a dispatcher responds.

"Stephen, security wants to know if you know a room," another dispatcher says.
This suggests to me that the security department and the maintenance department do not monitor the same radio channel, and maybe they cannot. Maybe Schuck's radio can only talk to the maintenance department or the main switchboard. Maybe Campos doesn't even know that Schuck is on his way.

You see, in the quote above, a dispatcher seems to be playing the go-between in a communication of security and maintenance.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:55 PM   #1939
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Look at this...



This suggests to me that the security department and the maintenance department do not monitor the same radio channel, and maybe they cannot. Maybe Schuck's radio can only talk to the maintenance department or the main switchboard. Maybe Campos doesn't even know that Schuck is on his way.

You see, in the quote above, a dispatcher seems to be playing the go-between in a communication of security and maintenance.
Is security thinking that Schuck might give them a different room number than Campos gave them?
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Old 12th October 2017, 01:07 PM   #1940
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Is security thinking that Schuck might give them a different room number than Campos gave them?
I hear ya.

Maybe Campos couldn't actually provide the exact room number and they were hoping perhaps Schuck could. Maybe security really wants that room number so that they can query the hotel database to see what guest is in there and how many - and also to give specifics to the police. Maybe they want to establish that there is only one shooter. Maybe there's some other logical reason.
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Old 12th October 2017, 01:27 PM   #1941
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Las Vegas shooter’s brother fires lawyers in estate case

Quote:
A Southern Nevada law firm withdrew a court petition Thursday to manage distribution of the funds from the estate of mass shooter Stephen Paddock.

The withdrawal came after the shooter’s brother, Eric Paddock, told the Review-Journal that he fired the law firm, Clear Counsel Law Group.

“I’m very upset and disappointed with the law firm because they didn’t honor my instructions that I paid them to do in communicating with the media,” Eric Paddock said.

Paddock, who lives in Orlando, Florida, previously told the Review-Journal that he came to Las Vegas last week to help gather his brother’s assets for the victims...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...in-estate-case
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Old 12th October 2017, 01:40 PM   #1942
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Gas masks in the room...

Quote:
In an interview with local radio station KNPR, Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Undersheriff Kevin McMahill said that a number of items, including gas masks, found in Paddock’s hotel room suggest to investigators that he planned to escape the hotel.
Again, I can think of uses for gas masks that don't include intending to escape the hotel.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/las-vegas-s...ry?id=50416137
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Old 12th October 2017, 02:14 PM   #1943
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Gas masks in the room...



Again, I can think of uses for gas masks that don't include intending to escape the hotel.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/las-vegas-s...ry?id=50416137
I can. He thinks the police might try to stop him from shooting with gas.

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Old 12th October 2017, 03:49 PM   #1944
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(MGM) Mandalay Bay is now saying more...

Originally Posted by Las Vegas Review-Journal
MGM Resorts International released a new statement Thursday disputing the timeline Sheriff Joe Lombardo released three days earlier regarding the Oct. 1 mass shooting.

“Although we prefer not to comment on the details of the investigation, we are issuing this statement to correct some of the misinformation that has been reported,” the emailed statement read.

On Monday, Lombardo said Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos was shot at 9:59 p.m., about six minutes before a gunman turned his weapons on the Route 91 Harvest festival crowd, killing at least 58 and leaving nearly 500 injured.

“The 9:59 p.m. PDT time was derived from a Mandalay Bay report manually created after the fact without the benefit of information we now have,” the statement continued. “We are now confident that the time stated in this report is not accurate. We know that shots were being fired at the festival lot at the same time as, or within 40 seconds after, the time Jesus Campos first reported that shots were fired over the radio.”

According to the new MGM statement, “Metro officers were together with armed Mandalay Bay security officers in the building when Campos first reported that shots were fired over the radio. These Metro officers and armed Mandalay Bay security officers immediately responded to the 32nd floor. We will continue to work with law enforcement as we have from the first moments of this tragedy as they work toward developing an accurate timeline.”...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...ne-of-shooting
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:22 PM   #1945
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Campos was on "random patrol" according to his union rep, I believe. He could have been on random patrol when given the door alarm task, but that does not seem to fit well with a "long-time" alerting door alarm?

I don't know why the stairwell fire exit door alarm would sound if the door was blocked shut. Paddock surely knows that fire exit doors sound an alarm when opened, and knows not to open one unless he wants a response.

I'm not sure if I know what you mean by this.

A fire exit door is, by definition, any door in a public space which is on a designated fire escape route. This includes most stairwells, so stairwell doors are often also fire exit doors. In general they are not wired to set off an alarm when opened, simply because there is no need for an alarm every time someone chooses to use the stairs instead of an elevator.

Maybe casinos are different.

It is not uncommon for fire escape route doors which exit a structure to be wired to an alarm, generally when they are meant to be used only in case of fire, so that unauthorized (read 'unsupervised') exits are monitored. This is something you might see, for example, as theft protection in stores.

Quote:

I don't know how the hallway type fire block door works as far as alarms, and I'm not even sure one is involved in the incident.

I believe the doors you are thinking of are the ones seen in corridors where they are normally open. These are intended as firebreaks and are held open with magnetic devices which are connected to the central fire alarm system. When that goes off the mag holders release the doors and they are closed by their door closers.

In the absence of such an alarm they will not normally close unless someone pulls them away from the mag holder intentionally.
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:40 PM   #1946
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Geez I hate lawyers sometimes.
Yeah, that lawsuit smells of ambulance chasing of the worst kind,and the attorney as a classic Whiplash Willy.
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:52 PM   #1947
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, that lawsuit smells of ambulance chasing of the worst kind,and the attorney as a classic Whiplash Willy.
Why? Do you think Paddock should be shielded from lawsuits? What's wrong with this lawsuit?
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:52 PM   #1948
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Parts of that lawsuit are going to have to be rewritten because they are based on yet another false timeline.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:56 PM   #1949
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Campos was on "random patrol" according to his union rep, I believe. He could have been on random patrol when given the door alarm task, but that does not seem to fit well with a "long-time" alerting door alarm?

I don't know why the stairwell fire exit door alarm would sound if the door was blocked shut. Paddock surely knows that fire exit doors sound an alarm when opened, and knows not to open one unless he wants a response.

I don't know how the hallway type fire block door works as far as alarms, and I'm not even sure one is involved in the incident.
The stairwell doesn't set off an alarm unless it stays open, like the guest room doors. It isn't an audible alarm. If it is stuck, then the report is from someone who physically tried to open it from the hallway in front of Paddocks room. Had they been on the other side, they would have seen the metal plate bolted there.

The stairwell actually has 2 doors with a vestibule in between. You cannot see the stairs just by opening the first door from the hallway. Paddock likely barricaded that first hallway door so that anyone walking to other floors didn't see it. Only people coming specifically to floor 32 would notice it.

Given Paddock's planning, the stairwell barricade was likely one of the very last things he did. The person who tried to open it is lucky to be alive! (It is possible that this person was Campos, especially if Paddock was drilling from his wall into the stairwell.)


eta: There would be normal 'sound' alarmed doors from the stairwell to the outside or into public areas. I'd guess stair access to the very top floors is restricted as well since you need a Four Seasons room key to access those elevators.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 12th October 2017 at 08:18 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:44 PM   #1950
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I'm not sure if I know what you mean by this.

A fire exit door is, by definition, any door in a public space which is on a designated fire escape route. This includes most stairwells, so stairwell doors are often also fire exit doors. In general they are not wired to set off an alarm when opened, simply because there is no need for an alarm every time someone chooses to use the stairs instead of an elevator.

Maybe casinos are different.

It is not uncommon for fire escape route doors which exit a structure to be wired to an alarm, generally when they are meant to be used only in case of fire, so that unauthorized (read 'unsupervised') exits are monitored. This is something you might see, for example, as theft protection in stores.




I believe the doors you are thinking of are the ones seen in corridors where they are normally open. These are intended as firebreaks and are held open with magnetic devices which are connected to the central fire alarm system. When that goes off the mag holders release the doors and they are closed by their door closers.

In the absence of such an alarm they will not normally close unless someone pulls them away from the mag holder intentionally.
Yeah, I think we have covered all of the various possible types of doors, door alarms, and fire doors a couple of times now. The exact wording of reports varies.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:15 PM   #1951
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The exact wording of reports varies.
This.
Vague, incomplete, piecemeal statements lead to all sorts of speculation.

It would be great if they would stop saying what they think happened and go through events with a simple diagram of both the ground level (showing entrances and a compass for direction) and the layout of the 32nd floor showing the sequence of events and positions of the various witnesses. Then relate that to the areas hit on the ground (I won't blame them if they don't have the exact sequence of areas hit) and the arrival of the bulk of first responders.
Bonus if they can animate it!
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:50 PM   #1952
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yeah, I think we have covered all of the various possible types of doors, door alarms, and fire doors a couple of times now. The exact wording of reports varies.

Sadly, the exact wording of the report may be part of the problem, because the people writing those reports may not actually understand the exact meaning of some of the terms they use, as may the people reading those reports.

Some terms are commonly used which actually have specific meanings which the casual user may be unaware of.

This is why over-analyzing what appears to be detail in some of these sorts of reports can create mis-impressions.
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Old 13th October 2017, 03:28 AM   #1953
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Quote:
Stephen Schuck, the engineer, told the "Today" show Wednesday morning that he had been on a higher floor before being called down to "check out a fire exit door that would not open." He credited Campos, who shouted for him to take cover, with saving his life.
In this version, Schuck came down to the 32nd floor, he did not come up.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...011-story.html


Note the typical EXIT sign, there on the floor very close to the double doors to Paddock's room.

https://theconservativetreehouse.fil...hotel-door.jpg
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:34 AM   #1954
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Bump stocks are now banned (I think, not sure how USA legislature works):

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politi...ck-legislation
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:53 AM   #1955
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Originally Posted by TX50 View Post
Bump stocks are now banned (I think, not sure how USA legislature works):
No, not yet, and maybe it won't happen. This is your clue from the link...

Originally Posted by Roll Call
The bill aims to ban...
The word "aims" wouldn't be there if the ban had happened. Also, if it happens it will be big bold headline news.
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Old 13th October 2017, 07:34 AM   #1956
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Originally Posted by TX50 View Post
Bump stocks are now banned (I think, not sure how USA legislature works):

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politi...ck-legislation
That's the very beginning of the process. The NRA opposes it and there are probably enough slaves to the NRA in Congress that that will prevent it from passing.

Unfortunately I think cynicism is warranted here. The NRA has recently paid lip service to this issue by acknowledging that bump stocks warrant "additional regulation" but I think any regulation above preventing bump stocks from being passed out to children as Halloween treats is going to be opposed by the NRA.
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Old 13th October 2017, 08:58 AM   #1957
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
That's the very beginning of the process.....
Or the bill passes and anyone with half a brain realizes that a bump stock "don't mean jack ****".
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:12 AM   #1958
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Or the bill passes and anyone with half a brain realizes that a bump stock "don't mean jack ****".
This is the potential danger of people writing laws about an unknown subject...

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/13/...matic-weapons/

New Bipartisan Bump Stock Bill Would Actually Ban All Semi-Automatic Rifles
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:49 AM   #1959
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
This is the potential danger of people writing laws about an unknown subject...

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/13/...matic-weapons/

New Bipartisan Bump Stock Bill Would Actually Ban All Semi-Automatic Rifles
Unintended benefits, then.
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:52 AM   #1960
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
That's the very beginning of the process. The NRA opposes it and there are probably enough slaves to the NRA in Congress that that will prevent it from passing.

Unfortunately I think cynicism is warranted here. The NRA has recently paid lip service to this issue by acknowledging that bump stocks warrant "additional regulation" but I think any regulation above preventing bump stocks from being passed out to children as Halloween treats is going to be opposed by the NRA.
The NRA proposed having the BATF review if bump stocks violate the NFA. Such a review would almost certainly come to exactly the same conclusion as the 2010 review, that bump stocks don't technically violate the NFA.

The NRA doesn't give a damn about the victims in Las Vegas. They only care about the firearms industry making as much money as possible.
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