ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 12th October 2017, 09:03 AM   #1
wasapi
Illuminator
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,672
When young children claim to see an invisible person.

When my 3 year granddaughter was visiting yesterday she kept staring at something in the hallway. I tried to get her back to the book I had been reading but she was just focused on one spot. When I finally asked, she said she was looking "at the man standing there". She added that at first he scared her, but he "is such a nice man" that she liked him and she was smiling and waving at "him".

OK, no ghost, I am aware, but it made me curious if young children are more prone to hallucinations?
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 09:37 AM   #2
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 17,310
Must be the same invisible person that my cats are always alerting to.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 09:45 AM   #3
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
I had a pet bird who used to stare up at something I could not see.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 09:49 AM   #4
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
If you write off your grand daughter as hallucinating you may be doing her a disservice.
She could be really psychic. If so telling her there is nobody there may not be very comforting to her. It will set up a conflict in her mind.

I would ask her more about the gentleman, and if he talks to her or not.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 11:28 AM   #5
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 18,106
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
When my 3 year granddaughter was visiting yesterday she kept staring at something in the hallway. I tried to get her back to the book I had been reading but she was just focused on one spot. When I finally asked, she said she was looking "at the man standing there". She added that at first he scared her, but he "is such a nice man" that she liked him and she was smiling and waving at "him".

OK, no ghost, I am aware, but it made me curious if young children are more prone to hallucinations?
I don't think she was hallucinating. I think she was playing a sort of game with you.

IMO, the indicator of a game instead of a hallucination is that she didn't start out asking you questions about the man (such as "who is he?"), instead she starts telling you about the man and her feelings about him. That is entirely unlike a hallucination where she actually "sees" an unknown man in your house and would believe that you can see him too because she thinks that he is a real man.

The smiling and waving is just part of the game that she wants you to play with her.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 11:50 AM   #6
wasapi
Illuminator
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,672
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't think she was hallucinating. I think she was playing a sort of game with you.

IMO, the indicator of a game instead of a hallucination is that she didn't start out asking you questions about the man (such as "who is he?"), instead she starts telling you about the man and her feelings about him. That is entirely unlike a hallucination where she actually "sees" an unknown man in your house and would believe that you can see him too because she thinks that he is a real man.

The smiling and waving is just part of the game that she wants you to play with her.
Interesting. I guess since I have raised or helped raise a few little ones, this was a new game I had not come across before. I wasn't comfortable either confirming or denying what she said she was seeing was real or not to me, just gently encouraged her to go back to reading her books with me.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 11:58 AM   #7
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,642
Just more active imagination, that's all.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 12:06 PM   #8
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 18,106
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I wasn't comfortable either confirming or denying what she said she was seeing was real or not to me, just gently encouraged her to go back to reading her books with me.
And that's why she dumped her game - because you didn't want to play along with her. If she truly hallucinated a stranger looking at her from the hallway she wouldn't casually go back to the book. She would instead pepper you with questions and concerns. Grandma, who is that? What is he doing? How did he get in the house? Why aren't you talking to him?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 12:14 PM   #9
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
And that's why she dumped her game - because you didn't want to play along with her. If she truly hallucinated a stranger looking at her from the hallway she wouldn't casually go back to the book. She would instead pepper you with questions and concerns. Grandma, who is that? What is he doing? How did he get in the house? Why aren't you talking to him?
Not at all, I remember seeing things as a young child, and I never even mentioned it to anyone. I thought it was normal. As for a three year old inventing lies about seeing people as some kind of game I think its too sophisticated for her.

I can tell you that if a child is genuinely psychic, and they are treated as mad it is extremely psychologically damaging to them. I have a lifetime of experience of being regarded as mad by my relatives, and it is very unpleasant.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 12:38 PM   #10
thines
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 61
Imaginary friends etc.

Well, there is no such thing as a genuine psychic, so that's right out. Getting back to reality, an excellent book on the topic is Taylor's (2001) "Imaginary Companions and the Children Who Create Them".
thines is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 12:45 PM   #11
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by thines View Post
Well, there is no such thing as a genuine psychic, so that's right out. Getting back to reality, an excellent book on the topic is Taylor's (2001) "Imaginary Companions and the Children Who Create Them".
Try to imagine what it means to a genuinely psychic child to be treated as delusional. Just for one moment put your prejudice aside and consider the possibility there really is a spirit world and some people can see them.
It would start as a young child and may progress from there as they gain understanding. But to be told you are imagining things will be damaging.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 12:53 PM   #12
Bubba
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,363
Originally Posted by thines View Post
...there is no such thing as a genuine psychic...

How do you know?
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 12:58 PM   #13
Loss Leader
Would Be Ringing (if a bell)
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 24,074
An article on imaginary friends.


Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
How do you know?

Fine. There is no repeatable, falsifiable, properly-controlled evidence that anyone is psychic.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader

Last edited by Loss Leader; 12th October 2017 at 01:02 PM.
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 12:58 PM   #14
Jungle Jim
Muse
 
Jungle Jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 939
Scorpion, here is a description of Taylor's book if you are interested.

Many parents delight in their child's imaginary companion as evidence of a lively imagination and creative mind. At the same time, parents sometimes wonder if the imaginary companion might be a sign that something is wrong. Does having a pretend friend mean that the child is in emotional distress? That he or she has difficulty communicating with other children? In this fascinating book, Marjorie Taylor provides an informed look at current thinking about pretend friends, dispelling many myths about them.

In the past a child with an imaginary companion might have been considered peculiar, shy, or even troubled, but according to Taylor the reality is much more positive--and interesting. Not only are imaginary companions surprisingly common, the children who have them tend to be less shy than other children. They also are better able to focus their attention and to see things from another person's perspective. In addition to describing imaginary companions and the reasons children create them, Taylor discusses other aspects of children's fantasy lives, such as their belief in Santa, their dreams, and their uncertainty about the reality of TV characters. Adults who remember their own childhood pretend friends will be interested in the chapter on the relationship between imaginary companions in childhood and adult forms of fantasy. Taylor also addresses practical concerns, providing many useful suggestions for parents. For example, she describes how children often express their own feelings by attributing them to their imaginary companion.

If you have a child who creates imaginary creatures, or if you work with pre-schoolers, you will find this book very helpful in understanding the roles that imaginary companions play in children's emotional lives.
Jungle Jim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 12:59 PM   #15
thines
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 61
How do I know?

1. Understanding the basic laws of physics.
2. Reading the relevant studies on claimed psychics that
a. never show above chance performance under controlled conditions.
b. reveal that claimed psychics are either frauds or self-deluded
I could go on, but why bother. If you have solid, reliable evidence to the contrary, not just "impressions," "feelings" and the like, please, dazzle us with your knowledge.
thines is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:04 PM   #16
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,727
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
How do you know?
Because in 200 years of looking for evidence, none has been found. That alone should be enough to convince anyone.

-

I would posit pareidolia as a possible explanation for the child's behaviour. I remember seeing a person standing in my bedroom one night, and being too scared to move.......until the morning light revealed some clothes arranged on the back of a chair.
__________________
The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place. The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:08 PM   #17
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by thines View Post
1. Understanding the basic laws of physics.
2. Reading the relevant studies on claimed psychics that
a. never show above chance performance under controlled conditions.
b. reveal that claimed psychics are either frauds or self-deluded
I could go on, but why bother. If you have solid, reliable evidence to the contrary, not just "impressions," "feelings" and the like, please, dazzle us with your knowledge.
That's all you know. But I started going to spiritualist churches in the 1960s. and I attended many trance lectures at the spiritualist association in London until the 1980s.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:12 PM   #18
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 3,225
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
That's all you know. But I started going to spiritualist churches in the 1960s. and I attended many trance lectures at the spiritualist association in London until the 1980s.
I completely agree. This is how I know there are Star Ships, as I attended several conventions with lectures until the 1990s.
__________________
- "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:26 PM   #19
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Imagine if any of you can, what it means to a genuinely psychic child to be brought up by people like you. At some point if they continued to see spirits, you would probably take them to a psychiatrist, who would probably classify them with a mental disease and put them on medication. Then they would not only have their own family treating them as mad but professionals too.

In my experience this entire forum is cluttered with people that have no idea what the truth really is, and I hope your children survive your ignorance.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:27 PM   #20
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,364
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Imagine if any of you can, what it means to a genuinely psychic child to be brought up by people like you. At some point if they continued to see spirits, you would probably take them to a psychiatrist, who would probably classify them with a mental disease and put them on medication. Then they would not only have their own family treating them as mad but professionals too.

In my experience this entire forum is cluttered with people that have no idea what the truth really is, and I hope your children survive your ignorance.
Yet here you remain to spew nonsense.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:27 PM   #21
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,727
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Imagine if any of you can, what it means to a genuinely psychic child to be brought up by people like you......
How many times do you have to be told: there is no such *********** thing.
__________________
The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place. The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:30 PM   #22
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,364
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
How many times do you have to be told: there is no such *********** thing.
That's honestly the least of my concerns with his repulsive post.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:33 PM   #23
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,727
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
That's honestly the least of my concerns with his repulsive post.
Well, I didn't read past that bit until just now. You may be right.
__________________
The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place. The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:37 PM   #24
Loss Leader
Would Be Ringing (if a bell)
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 24,074
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
In my experience this entire forum is cluttered with people that have no idea what the truth really is, and I hope your children survive your ignorance.

Then it shouldn't be a problem to design a test for these abilities. And yet nobody has ever passed a properly controlled study? Why is that? How could something that is real also be untestable?
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 01:47 PM   #25
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 18,106
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
But to be told you are imagining things will be damaging.
We regularly read news stories about people who "hear voices" or experience "entities" who they say instruct them to kill a person(s). They do it too.

Murder is damaging. Murdered by a psychic who had a "spirit" guide them to do it.

You say we are never to tell them that they are imagining things.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 02:06 PM   #26
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We regularly read news stories about people who "hear voices" or experience "entities" who they say instruct them to kill a person(s). They do it too.

Murder is damaging. Murdered by a psychic who had a "spirit" guide them to do it.

You say we are never to tell them that they are imagining things.
I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but obviously some people are simply deluded and hallucinate. But not every mentally ill person is dangerous, any more than the rest of the population are all dangerous. Someone like Peter Sutcliff must have been a nasty piece of work to start with. Not every mentally ill person who hears voices would kill anyone just because a voice told them to.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 02:19 PM   #27
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Then it shouldn't be a problem to design a test for these abilities. And yet nobody has ever passed a properly controlled study? Why is that? How could something that is real also be untestable?
There is the matter that the spirit world are not allowed to directly interfere with our free will, and proving they exist would do that. As far as the spirit world is concerned we on earth are meant to work things out for ourselves.
We incarnate for experience sake and the struggle of life is how we evolve.

If we knew for certain there was a God or an afterlife we would be inhibited in our actions, but it is by our actions we learn by trial and error, through karma over many incarnations.

The spirit world do help people with inspiration, and often people are given ideas they think were their own, but they were actually being inspired.

A medium once gave me a message, and she said, "the spirit world inspired you to paint a blue and white painting, but you did not think much of it".
That was entirely true, and I do not see how a medium could know I painted, let alone that I had recently done a painting in blue and white that I was not satisfied with.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 02:25 PM   #28
Bubba
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,363
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Then it shouldn't be a problem to design a test for these abilities. And yet nobody has ever passed a properly controlled study? Why is that? How could something that is real also be untestable?

Maybe proof sometimes cannot come that way?


My friend would agree. She says in her case it doesnt work that way. She says she would fail tests. She says it doesnt work if she tries to do it. She says she never knows when it is going to happen. She says she does not try to receive information. It just comes to mind. Always unexpected. It is nothing like guessing, she says

For example, she and I were talking on the phone, across the country...I said I gotta go, my friend says dinner is being served. She said "Having eggplant?" I didnt know what was for dinner. On a different occasion I mentioned that I was helping a friend with house painting. She said "Blue?"

She says that what comes to her mind is always correct, for as long as she can remember, 50+ years. She never tries or guesses....It just comes on its own, she says. She says it is never future or past tense. She says it happens once or twice a month.

She also says she would not pursue it as in gambling, or in any other way. Not interested, she says. She also says she will often keep it to herself because it can be upsetting, or something someone would rather not know.

I'd not presume it would happen the same way in all cases. To me this question remains an open issue. I do know that eggplant was served, and that I was using blue paint.

I'll ask for more about this next time I talk to her.
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 02:25 PM   #29
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post

OK, no ghost, I am aware, but it made me curious if young children are more prone to hallucinations?
Sorry I seem to be sidetracking your thread, but I seem to do that.

My position is that although children do imagine things some of them may be genuinely psychic, so careful questioning about what they see may make it possible to deduce if what they are seeing could be a real spirit.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 02:51 PM   #30
Bubba
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,363
"..... I do know that eggplant was served, and that I was using blue paint.

I'll ask for more about this next time I talk to her. "


Anybody have any questions for her?
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 03:47 PM   #31
fuelair
Suspended
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55,698
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Not at all, I remember seeing things as a young child, and I never even mentioned it to anyone. I thought it was normal. As for a three year old inventing lies about seeing people as some kind of game I think its too sophisticated for her.

I can tell you that if a child is genuinely psychic, and they are treated as mad it is extremely psychologically damaging to them. I have a lifetime of experience of being regarded as mad by my relatives, and it is very unpleasant.
No!!! Really, No!!!!!!!! There are no psychics, no psychic buddies, no ghosts, etc.................... This is not the place to try to play this!!!!!!!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 03:48 PM   #32
fuelair
Suspended
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55,698
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
That's all you know. But I started going to spiritualist churches in the 1960s. and I attended many trance lectures at the spiritualist association in London until the 1980s.
Sadly, a large number of people are subject to delusions for a variety of physical and chemical reasons.
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 04:13 PM   #33
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,364
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
"..... I do know that eggplant was served, and that I was using blue paint.

I'll ask for more about this next time I talk to her. "


Anybody have any questions for her?
Has she ever sought professional help?
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 04:19 PM   #34
Matthew Ellard
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,693
Originally Posted by Loss Leader
Then it shouldn't be a problem to design a test for these abilities. And yet nobody has ever passed a properly controlled study? Why is that? How could something that is real also be untestable?
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Maybe proof sometimes cannot come that way?
I suggest to you that Loss Leader has made two clear points.

Firstly there are numerous alternative hypotheses to explain a set of circumstances than can look, at first glance like psychic behaviour from fictional literature. However, it seems that no one can write down any plausible hypothesis that explains real psychic behaviour.

Secondly, a hypothesis needs to be falsifiable to have any use. If I simply say "God did it" (which can't be falsified) I may as well say "Leprechauns did it" ( which also can't be falsified).


Karl popper on falsification ( Three minute You Tube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-sGqBsWv4
Matthew Ellard is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 04:24 PM   #35
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
No!!! Really, No!!!!!!!! There are no psychics, no psychic buddies, no ghosts, etc.................... This is not the place to try to play this!!!!!!!!!
Well I think you skeptics need some opposition. Because for one thing you are all totally wrong.

How do you explain my story about a medium telling me the spirit world inspired me to do a blue and white painting. And she said I was not satisfied with it. Since I had told nobody at the church I even did such a painting let alone that I was not satisfied with it , that is an indication the spirit world could not only inspire me, but they could read my mind with telepathy to determine my thoughts about the painting.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 04:29 PM   #36
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Has she ever sought professional help?
That's the kind of thing that psychically sensitive people have to suffer in this world. People like you assuming they are mentally ill. In my experience professionals can make things a lot worse, because like you they assume everything not totally factual is some kind of delusion.

Imagine if you will, how hard that is to bear for someone that actually has psychic experiences.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 04:33 PM   #37
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,625
Quote:
There is the matter that the spirit world are not allowed to directly interfere with our free will, and proving they exist would do that.

Well, that's convenient.
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 04:47 PM   #38
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,634
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Well I think you skeptics need some opposition. Because for one thing you are all totally wrong.

How do you explain my story about a medium telling me the spirit world inspired me to do a blue and white painting. And she said I was not satisfied with it. Since I had told nobody at the church I even did such a painting let alone that I was not satisfied with it , that is an indication the spirit world could not only inspire me, but they could read my mind with telepathy to determine my thoughts about the painting.
Fabulist personality, memory fallibility, delusion, fabrication . . .
__________________
A sentimental materialization of the kind of quasi‐rural bonhomie that seemed a millimeter from actual goose‐stepping and brown‐shirt uproars of bumpkin fascism.

Tom McGuane
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 04:57 PM   #39
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Fabulist personality, memory fallibility, delusion, fabrication . . .
She told me two facts that I clearly remember, and I am not making it up.
Logic dictates she got information about what was going on in my head.

In any case that's only one evidential message I had out of hundreds over thirty years of attending spiritualist churches.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2017, 05:04 PM   #40
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 3,225
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There is the matter that the spirit world are not allowed to directly interfere with our free will, and proving they exist would do that. As far as the spirit world is concerned we on earth are meant to work things out for ourselves.
We incarnate for experience sake and the struggle of life is how we evolve.

If we knew for certain there was a God or an afterlife we would be inhibited in our actions, but it is by our actions we learn by trial and error, through karma over many incarnations.
Wow, what a coincidence.

Those Star Ships I learned about, they have this thing called "The Prime Directive," where they are not allowed to interfere with our evolution, not allowed to show themselves, or give any indication that they exist. You can't communicate with them at will, but they can choose to communicate with any of us, if we promise not to tell. So, no actual evidence they exist.

But, those of us in the know, know they are out there, watching, waiting, changing history in subtle, undetectable ways.

Trust me.
__________________
- "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:40 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.