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Tags artificial intelligence , consciousness , Edward Witten , Max Tegmark

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Old 12th October 2017, 06:29 AM   #481
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Max Tegmark, probably has a better grasp than you on this topic, and as Max Tegmark expressed in a youtube video here, physicists have long neglected to define the observer in much of the equations. (The observer being the intelligent agent)
Yeah, objective science tends to ignore subjectivity.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:09 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
So, it is about physics.. Did you actually read more than O(log(n)) of the paper?
Okay, this impressed me. To make a statement like this you need to have both a reasonable grasp as to the implications of a particular set of symbols, and yet be utterly clueless as to what it means or how it's used.

5/10, made me respond.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:29 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Well, let's be fair to Jordan. He can't just go along and prove his own theory wrong, can he? That'd be devastating to him.

And yet real scientists do it all the time and STILL publish the research.

Perhaps he can partner with old Doc Mills over at BLP to build a Hydrino based quantum computer. It’ll get him about as far as his current track AND get him a cadre of credulous supporters online. Might even get him a Green Card and a steady job.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:30 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
And yet real scientists do it all the time and STILL publish the research.
The difference being that being proven wrong doesn't devastate them.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:35 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
The difference being that being proven wrong doesn't devastate them.


The good ones realize a negative result is still a result.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:15 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Is he the guy whose 'debate' with you simply suggested you read his book?

That's not actually a debate.
Look at my previous quotes.
Why don't you guys read?

I said: "I don't have these long standing debates".

I did not say: "I have these long standing debates".

Do you even English bro?
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:24 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Originally Posted by halleyscommet
o far I see a LOT of excuses, but no plans.
Well, let's be fair to Jordan. He can't just go along and prove his own theory wrong, can he? That'd be devastating to him.
I already approached halley's concern, here:

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Originally Posted by halleyscommet
Do you not have enough confidence in the theory to publish it without first having proven it experimentally? Do you have some sort of moral, ethical or philosophical objection to publishing a purely theoretical paper?
Bengio, a pioneer in Deep Learning can have the leisure of posting papers on major peer reviewed journals, even without any semblance of experimental results. (An example is his recent Consciousness Prior Paper)

I am not a pioneer in machine learning, nor do I have a machine learning degree, so I don't have the same leisure as Bengio.


Originally Posted by halleyscommet
It occurs to me, the work needed to break your overall theory down into a project that could be executed on a grid computing platform would itself constitute a publishable paper.

You seem to have put yourself in an interesting chicken and egg situation. You’re unwilling to publish a theoretical paper but without a theoretical paper you’re unlikely to get the grants needed to purchase the hardware to do the experiments you want to do. To make progress forward you need either publish a theoretical paper or break down your theory so that it can be run on a grid computing platform.

What is your plan?
That occurrence is wrong...

An initial, albeit substantial degree of the structure to be tested, shall align with the requirements I priorly mentioned here.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:28 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Look at my previous quotes.
Why don't you guys read?

I said: "I don't have these long standing debates".

I did not say: "I have these long standing debates".

Do you even English bro?
That's because except to suggest you read his book, he didn't even give you the time of day, let alone debate your rather unique take on English.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:29 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Originally Posted by BezzleBuddy
So, it is about physics.. Did you actually read more than O(log(n)) of the paper?
Okay, this impressed me. To make a statement like this you need to have both a reasonable grasp as to the implications of a particular set of symbols, and yet be utterly clueless as to what it means or how it's used.

5/10, made me respond.
Well I don't intend to impress anybody...

I aced analysis of algorithms at university (taught by Prof Daniel Coore) a few years ago (that course has a notorious fear factor, of failure), but some of the concepts have probably escaped me. (I can send you a login to my student administration portal, so you can see the grades)

But what warrants your "utterly clueless" comment above?

Last edited by ProgrammingGodJordan; 12th October 2017 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:31 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
That's because except to suggest you read his book, he didn't even give you the time of day, let alone debate your rather unique take on English.
He did spend a brief moment to discuss manifolds, as you saw in the screenshot. (Which was surprising to me, since I don't have a machine learning degree)

He also spent time to briefly talk about other things:





We still exchange words, however brief, to this day...

Last edited by ProgrammingGodJordan; 12th October 2017 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:48 AM   #491
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Well I don't intend to impress anybody...

I aced analysis of algorithms at university (taught by Prof Daniel Coore) a few years ago (that course has a notorious fear factor, of failure), but some of the concepts have probably escaped me. (I can send you a login to my student administration portal, so you can see the grades)
You should ask for your money back.

Quote:
But what warrants your "utterly clueless" comment above?
Big O notation is a method of describing the scaling properties of a given algorithm. It has absolutely no meaning when applied to the fraction of a particular document someone may have read.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:58 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
He did spend a brief moment to discuss manifolds, as you saw in the screenshot. (Which was surprising to me, since I don't have a machine learning degree)

He also spent time to briefly talk about other things:



We still exchange words, however brief, to this day...
I'm sure he's a nice guy and pats small children on the head too.

And never kicks kittens.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:55 AM   #493
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
I can send you a login to my student administration portal, so you can see the grades)

But what warrants your "utterly clueless" comment above?

Jesus Christ man! I’d say the “utter clueless” applies handily to your grasp of basic computer security.

Christ almighty. How the flying **** did an alleged computer programmer get to adulthood still thinking it’s kosher to offer to hand out god damn personal *********** login credentials to random *********** strangers?

You’re joking. Please tell me you were *********** joking about making the login credentials available to one of us. It was a ********** up joke and the fact that it was a joke was not accurately conveyed in the forum post. Right?

Right?

Jesus *********** tap-dancing Christ dry on a pogo-stick cracker. What the flying acrobatic **** did I just read?
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:00 PM   #494
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But you're not a stranger, you're Hagrid. One of the good guys.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:17 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
But you're not a stranger, you're Hagrid. One of the good guys.


Oh, don’t get me started on Hagrid. He’s the perfect example of social engineering at work. If Draco had possessed even a fraction of the cunning his inept, inbred family THOUGHT they had, he’d have befriended Hagrid in the beginning to get information his father could use against Dumbledore. Keep dear old Dad in the dark about the source of his information and Lucious would end up being part of a good cop / bad cop game to keep Hagrid trusting Draco even more.

Naturally if Draco had been that cunning he’d have had to keep his dad in the dark, because Lucious was about as non-cunning as a human being could be. The dipstick would have spoiled the game the moment he had to choose between a momentary slight to his ego and preserving the best source of intelligence about Dumbledore’s dealings.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:45 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
You should ask for your money back.

Big O notation is a method of describing the scaling properties of a given algorithm. It has absolutely no meaning when applied to the fraction of a particular document someone may have read.

Unnecesary, Dr. Coore's lectures were well done.

A little about Prof Coore:

He "received the Innovation awards in Science and Technology for a cardiac surgery simulator and the Morris Joseph Levin Memorial Award for best presentation of his Master's thesis work in the semi-annual MIT EECS Master Works Oral Presentations.

His works as seen above, and other works such as his focus in amorphous computation reflects in his elegant lecture style.

An "O(log(n))" joke reported by one of his former students on some forum, has no bearing on his lectures.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:48 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I'm sure he's a nice guy and pats small children on the head too.

And never kicks kittens.
If I drew a small sample of my exchange with Bengio, it would have been more valuable than almost the sum total/a great majority of my exchanges here.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:52 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Jesus Christ man! I’d say the “utter clueless” applies handily to your grasp of basic computer security.

Christ almighty. How the flying **** did an alleged computer programmer get to adulthood still thinking it’s kosher to offer to hand out god damn personal *********** login credentials to random *********** strangers?

You’re joking. Please tell me you were *********** joking about making the login credentials available to one of us. It was a ********** up joke and the fact that it was a joke was not accurately conveyed in the forum post. Right?

Right?

Jesus *********** tap-dancing Christ dry on a pogo-stick cracker. What the flying acrobatic **** did I just read?
Your words remind me of Dexter Morgan's sister's cursing on the "Dexter" series: "Christ on a ******** cracker".

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Old 12th October 2017, 11:02 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
If I drew a small sample of my exchange with Bengio, it would have been more valuable than almost the sum total/a great majority of my exchanges here.
Doesn't that tell you something?

I'll bet you didn't use stupid and disrespectful language with him, nor answer with "huh?". You might draw a lesson from that.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:20 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Doesn't that tell you something?

I'll bet you didn't use stupid and disrespectful language with him, nor answer with "huh?". You might draw a lesson from that.
The huh's were quite recent, and so my prior response still applies...
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:25 PM   #501
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By "prior" I assume you mean "previous"?
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:06 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
By "prior" I assume you mean "previous"?
Could I instead mean the consciousness prior?
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:14 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
By "prior" I assume you mean "previous"?

He might mean, "there's a nice knock-down argument for you".
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:39 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
He might mean......
That's all we can ever do: guess.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:40 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
That's all we can ever do: guess.
By guess did you mean estimate?

(A silly, MikeG styled query)
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:42 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
By guess did you mean estimate?

(A silly, MikeG styled query)
No, unlike you, I know what words mean. I chose the one I wanted.
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Old 13th October 2017, 02:02 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Well I don't intend to impress anybody...

[...]
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Old 13th October 2017, 02:59 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Your words remind me of Dexter Morgan's sister's cursing on the "Dexter" series: "Christ on a ******** cracker".



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That’s the best you’ve got huh?

I guess you aren’t joking then. You really ARE that clueless about computer security.

At this point I hope you never get access to the computing power you need for your experiments. The last thing the world needs is an AI that’s been hacked, rooted and violated by every script kiddie with a port scanner.
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:24 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
If I drew a small sample of my exchange with Bengio, it would have been more valuable than almost the sum total/a great majority of my exchanges here.

Why do you persist, then? Seriously -- and no offense intended, I'm genuinely curious -- I've often wondered why your type insists on spending hours and hours spewing your stuff on here. There are quite a few here, and the forum would have been poorer (in terms of entertainment) if that club didn't make an appearance here, but what motivates them to keep on posting here despite the constant ridicule? Now I realize you can't speak for the others in the club, so forget the club, but what about you?
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Old 13th October 2017, 08:37 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
I already approached halley's concern, here:
Well, giving up is technically one approach to the problem.
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Old 13th October 2017, 10:22 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
No, unlike you, I know what words mean. I chose the one I wanted.

So only you can choose the ones you want?....( well, you and your comrades here)
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Old 13th October 2017, 10:25 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Why do you persist, then? Seriously -- and no offense intended, I'm genuinely curious -- I've often wondered why your type insists on spending hours and hours spewing your stuff on here. There are quite a few here, and the forum would have been poorer (in terms of entertainment) if that club didn't make an appearance here, but what motivates them to keep on posting here despite the constant ridicule? Now I realize you can't speak for the others in the club, so forget the club, but what about you?
There have been quite helpful comments/criticism by a few here.

Those criticisms have helped me to enhance thought curvature.

And yes, the responses of others here may be seen as entertainment...
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:48 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Max Tegmark, probably has a better grasp than you on this topic, and as Max Tegmark expressed in a youtube video here, physicists have long neglected to define the observer in much of the equations. (The observer being the intelligent agent)
Are you taking the quantum computing route because you believe that consciousness and quantum mechanics are linked (eg, it is not possible to produces consciousness on a classical computer, a quantum computer is required)?
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:20 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post

So only you can choose the ones you want?....( well, you and your comrades here)
Yep, because one of the things that I want is for people to understand me. Another thing I want with my word selection is for the words to not be rude, offensive, or to make people angry. Your mileage, it seems, varies.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:41 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Are you taking the quantum computing route because you believe that consciousness and quantum mechanics are linked (eg, it is not possible to produces consciousness on a classical computer, a quantum computer is required)?
While consciousness is probably achievable on a configuration of classical systems, that route alone would likely be bulky and impractical.

Instead, we already see exponential computational speed up from ever shrinking transistors, including now tensor processing units.

As this shrinking occurs, we naturally utilize more and more paradigms in quantum mechanics, and we also see non-trivial benefits of the quantum world with quantum machine learning platforms.

No belief required...

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Old 13th October 2017, 01:50 PM   #516
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Hey PGJ, I had words with Bengio Joshua. Guess what he said? I was crying laughing.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:57 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
While consciousness is probably achievable on a configuration of classical systems, that route alone would likely be bulky and impractical.
So you'd prefer to do completely theoretical work on the topic, designing things for systems that don't exist rather than actually carrying out the work using a classical system and building something bulky and impractical. Got it.
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and lines to code before I sleep
And lines to code before I sleep
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Old 13th October 2017, 02:05 PM   #518
ProgrammingGodJordan
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
So you'd prefer to do completely theoretical work on the topic, designing things for systems that don't exist rather than actually carrying out the work using a classical system and building something bulky and impractical. Got it.
Yes, glad you do... (Those bulky costs though)
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Old 13th October 2017, 03:29 PM   #519
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And what does Bengio say about that?

Let's see

Quote:
It's a true excerpt. From a gmail exchange. Mostly one-way, him sending me e-mails. That time I responded. Usually I find it difficult to understand what he means in his messages.
Now what? Jordan?

ETA: You understand, Jordan, that Bengio has given me express permission to repost his replies right here, yes?
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Old 13th October 2017, 03:33 PM   #520
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That could mean one of two things.

Either Bengio is a bit dim, or PGJ is a bit incomprehensible.

Let the reader draw his own conclusions.
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