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Old 3rd October 2017, 05:05 PM   #1
Carnivore
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The Nautilus case

I've done a quick search and can't see any other threads regarding this. I'm posting because the details emerging now about the case have crossed the line from odd to bizarre, bordering on surreal.

The UC3 Nautilus is the world's largest amateur built submarine at 33 tons. It was built in Denmark by a group of volunteer enthusiasts led by Peter Madsen, who conceived it as an art project. Madsen is also a self taught space flight engineer who in 2008 founded Copenhagen Suborbitals. This is a crowdfunded company that aims to send an amateur astronaut into near Earth orbit and recover them safely. It has launched 5 rockets and two mock up space capsules from a Danish Navy testing range in the Baltic since 2010. Their first launch famously failed because the rocket's de-icing component for the liquid oxygen valve (a hair dryer) had it's power supply fail.

The Nautilus was trialled by former Danish Navy submariners in 2008 and received a clean bill of health. It was then operated for the next three years by Madsen and various volunteers who sailed it happily off the Danish coast. It was visited by many parties including video game designers and journalists. There are many Youtube videos of the sub in operation. In 2011 the Nautilus was drydocked for maintainence and upgrades. This was planned to be for only a few weeks but it wasn't relaunched until April of this year. In the meantime there had been some ill feeling between Madsen and the volunteers which resulted in Madsen becoming the official sole owner of the sub.

Fast forward to August 11 this year, Swedish free-lance journalist Kim Wall went aboard the Nautilus to interview Madsen. She was a well known and respected globetrotting writer whose work had been published in papers like the New York Times and the Guardian and in magazines like Time and Harpers. Around 7 pm the submarine left the dock and sailed into the Baltic. It had been scheduled to sail the following day to an exhibition at the Danish island Bornholm but Madsen texted the crew that the event was cancelled. During the night Kim Wall was reported missing by her boyfriend to Swedish police and the Nautilus was noticed missing from it's dock. Danish police liased with the crew of the submarine and quickly set up a search at sea. At around 10.30 pm the submarine was seen by a lighthouse crew entering Koge harbour, about 40 km southwest of Copenhagen. Shortly afterward, the Nautilus sank, leaving Madsen on the surface. He was quickly rescued by a private boat.

On being interviewed by police Madsen said the sub had sunk because of malfunction but Wall had not been aboard. He claimed that they had concluded the interview at sea and he had subsequently returned Wall to the dock in Copenhagen. Madsen claimed she had left the ship and he then sailed to Koge harbour alone. The dock site was well covered by private CCTV cameras and Danish police quickly established that Madsen was lying - the Nautilus did not return to the dock. Kim Wall was last seen going aboard the sub before it sailed away. Madsen was arrested immediately and charged initially with negligent manslaughter while the investigation continued. In court on the 12th of August Madsen gave a different version of events. He said that Wall had died accidentally by being hit by the heavy conning tower hatch. He claimed that in a fit of panic he had "buried her at sea" before the accidental sinking.

The Nautilus had sunk in only 7 meters of water. It was approached by divers but they could not enter the vessel. Quickly a cargo ship was contracted by the Danish government to salvage the Nautilus and bring it to the surface. On the 14th of August investigators announced the sub had been deliberately sunk. A week later Kim Wall's headless torso was found at sea. It had been deliberately dismembered and decapitated, stabbed multiple times in the abdomen - homicide investigators say this was to prevent gas build up enhancing flotation - and weighted down by being strapped to scrap metal. The limbs and head have not yet been found. Madsen denies mutliating Wall. He claims that he weighted down her intact body then scuttled the Nautilus in "suicidal psychosis" intending to drown himself.

Fast forward to Madsen's most recent court appearence yesterday. Evidence was given that investigators have recovered videos from a computer in the Nautilus on shore workshop. These apparenlty show the unsimulated decapitations of women. Madsen says they are nothing to do with him and lots of people have access to the workshop.

At this point my jaw is dropping. It isn't clear yet if these videos are downloads of nasty online executions or a more personal record. Is the famous amateur aerospace engineer a serial killer? Did he build an actual submarine specifically as a murder site? I don't know what to think. It's all starting to seem like something out of a bad Scandi Noir story.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 05:30 PM   #2
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Almost unbelievable!
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Old 3rd October 2017, 05:41 PM   #3
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His story doesn't hold water!
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:11 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
His story doesn't hold water!
*** Groan ***
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Old 4th October 2017, 01:14 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
*** Groan ***
Did that give you a sinking feeling?
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Old 4th October 2017, 01:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
These apparenlty show the unsimulated decapitations of women.
Do you have a source for that?

NM; I found one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...all-had-films/
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Old 4th October 2017, 01:26 PM   #7
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My presumption of innocence is being sorely tested.

I think this guy is going down.
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Old 4th October 2017, 02:18 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
My presumption of innocence is being sorely tested.

I think this guy is going down.
To Periscope depth?
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Old 4th October 2017, 09:40 PM   #9
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He definitely went off the deep end one way or another.
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Old 5th October 2017, 12:55 PM   #10
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Phil Spector of the lake.. Dang..
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Old 7th October 2017, 06:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Danish police investigating the murder of the Swedish journalist Kim Wall have found body parts, including her decapitated head.

The freelance journalist was last seen alive on 10 August when she went to interview the inventor Peter Madsen, who has been charged with her murder. Wall’s dismembered torso washed ashore 12 days after she boarded Madsen’s homemade submarine for the interview.

The police investigator Jens Møller Jensen said divers had found Wall’s head and legs, as well as her clothes and a knife, in plastic bags with “heavy metal pieces” to make them sink.

“Yesterday morning we found a bag within which we found Kim Wall’s clothes, underwear, stockings and shoes. In the same bag laid a knife, and there were some car pipes to weigh the bag down,” he said on Saturday.

A postmortem examination confirmed the head was Wall’s and that it showed “no sign of fracture … [or] any sign of other blunt violence to the skull”, he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...alist-kim-wall

His already highly questionable story, that she died "accidentally because he inadvertently dropped a submarine hatch cover that struck her head" and that he didn't dismember her body, has now been proven false.

Now the question remains if he will maintain that he really really honestly (because he's so believable right now) didn't dismember the corpse. Apparently we are to believe that some roaming body desecrator found her corpse washed up after his sea burial.

At this point he might as well continue to claim that he has no idea why her head doesn't show any signs of blunt trauma despite his earlier claiming that she had a large wound after the "accident".
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Old 7th October 2017, 06:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
My presumption of innocence is being sorely tested.

I think this guy is going down.
I am thinking very slow immersion upside down in the ocean. With periods of de-immersion to give him time to think on his sins.
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Old 7th October 2017, 06:59 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
His already highly questionable story, that she died "accidentally because he inadvertently dropped a submarine hatch cover that struck her head" and that he didn't dismember her body, has now been proven false.
It's definitely fishy, to say the least.
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Old 7th October 2017, 03:08 PM   #14
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Journalist Kim Wall's head found in sea near Copenhagen

The head of Swedish journalist Kim Wall has been found, two months after she disappeared on a trip with a Danish submariner, Danish police say.
Divers found bags containing her head, legs and clothing in Koge Bay, just south of Copenhagen, the city's police inspector Jens Moller Jensen said.
They were found not far from where Ms Wall's torso was discovered 11 days after she boarded Peter Madsen's submarine on 10 August.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41536552
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Old 7th October 2017, 04:34 PM   #15
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It's worth noting that Peter Madsen has consistently claimed that Kim Wall died in an accident, when a 150 pount hatch fell on her head.

Her head now having been recovered, and showing no fracture, would suggest something else happened.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if she was hit by the hatch, but was merely knocked unconscious, Peter Madsen panicked, and his cutting up her body is what actually killed her.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
...

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if she was hit by the hatch, but was merely knocked unconscious, Peter Madsen panicked, and his cutting up her body is what actually killed her.
Except he apparently had videos of women being decapitated on his hard drive. I don't think there was much panic on his part.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Except he apparently had videos of women being decapitated on his hard drive. I don't think there was much panic on his part.
Source?
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:55 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
It's worth noting that Peter Madsen has consistently claimed that Kim Wall died in an accident, when a 150 pount hatch fell on her head.

Her head now having been recovered, and showing no fracture, would suggest something else happened.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if she was hit by the hatch, but was merely knocked unconscious, Peter Madsen panicked, and his cutting up her body is what actually killed her.
You're not actually serious, right?
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Old 13th October 2017, 04:20 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
You're not actually serious, right?
I don't know what to believe at the moment, other than the near-incontrovertible fact that Peter Madsen dismembered Kim Wall, dispersed the body parts in Køge Bay, and finally sunk the sub. Everything else will be laid out in the trial to come and will have to be assessed at that point. Although we will have to wait and see if Peter Madsen actually decides to talk at that point.

Incidently, the latest news is that a saw has been located along the likely sailing route of the sub, and it's currently being tested to see if it was the one used to dismember Kim Wall's body.
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:15 AM   #20
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I think the videos on his computer, if this is true, are pretty damning. Come on, how many of us have snuff videos of decapitation on our hard drives? That someone with that sort of interest should then be involved with a set of accidental circumstances which resulted in a woman's decapitated body being found, is a bit of a stretch.
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:17 AM   #21
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'Til this thread, I thought "snuff videos" were an urban legend.
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Old 13th October 2017, 10:46 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
I don't know what to believe at the moment, other than the near-incontrovertible fact that Peter Madsen dismembered Kim Wall, dispersed the body parts in Køge Bay, and finally sunk the sub. Everything else will be laid out in the trial to come and will have to be assessed at that point. Although we will have to wait and see if Peter Madsen actually decides to talk at that point.

Incidently, the latest news is that a saw has been located along the likely sailing route of the sub, and it's currently being tested to see if it was the one used to dismember Kim Wall's body.
Beyond the fact that Wall's head has been found, and shows no signs of having been struck by a heavy object, do you really believe it's reasonable that Madsen, seeing his guest either killed or laid unconscious by an accident, decided against checking to see if she had a pulse, or radioing in a call announcing an accident and requesting help, and instead decided to proceed immediately to dismembering the body, scattering the body parts around the bay, and sinking the ship? Panic or no, that seems preposterous to me.
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Old 13th October 2017, 03:13 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
'Til this thread, I thought "snuff videos" were an urban legend.

They are. In order to qualify as a "snuff film", the murder or suicide in question has to be staged for the purpose of entertainment. Therefore, something such as the Zapruder film doesn't qualify.

ETA: Neither do terrorist propaganda videos.
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Old 13th October 2017, 03:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Source?
Both of the previously linked articles, for two.

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Journalist Kim Wall's head found in sea near Copenhagen
<snip>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41536552

Quote:
A court has heard that footage of women being strangled and decapitated was found on a hard drive believed to belong to the inventor.


and


Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...alist-kim-wall
Quote:
Danish Prosecutor Jakob Buch-Jepsen told a court earlier this month that footage of women being decapitated alive had been found on a hard drive believed to belong to Mr Madsen.
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Old 13th October 2017, 03:51 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Both of the previously linked articles, for two.




and
And these:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...all-had-films/

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/worl...orture-killing


I'm sure Peter has a water-tight alibi for all this.
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
'Til this thread, I thought "snuff videos" were an urban legend.
No, they are not - though most are fake (thankfully)!!!!
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Old 30th October 2017, 03:15 PM   #27
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Latest news is that Peter Madsen has admitted to dismembering the body of Kim Wall, but he now claims she died of carbon monoxide poisoning inside the sub while he was above on deck.

Meanwhile, the charges against Peter Madsen has been expanded to include what is referred to as "sexual activities other than intercourse" (my translation), presumably on the basis of the stab wounds found in the lower regions of Kim Wall's torso.
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Old 31st October 2017, 10:41 AM   #28
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This case just gets creepier and creepier. He at one time claimed a metal hatch hit her on the head, knocking her unconscious. When the head found there was no blunt trauma. Now he claims carbon monoxide poisoning. Does anyone know if an autopsy can confirm this by examining her lungs and tissues? Will the time her body was in the ocean erase any of this?
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Old 31st October 2017, 11:00 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
This case just gets creepier and creepier. He at one time claimed a metal hatch hit her on the head, knocking her unconscious. When the head found there was no blunt trauma. Now he claims carbon monoxide poisoning. Does anyone know if an autopsy can confirm this by examining her lungs and tissues? Will the time her body was in the ocean erase any of this?
And does it even help him legally? I can see a presumption of innocence defence working if an accused party can postulate some vaguely innocent explanation for what happened... but after several alibis have been shot down, surely at some point your credibility is underwater?
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Old 31st October 2017, 11:01 AM   #30
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Wow, this is positively creepy. Never heard of this before today.
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Old 31st October 2017, 04:16 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
This case just gets creepier and creepier. He at one time claimed a metal hatch hit her on the head, knocking her unconscious. When the head found there was no blunt trauma. Now he claims carbon monoxide poisoning. Does anyone know if an autopsy can confirm this by examining her lungs and tissues? Will the time her body was in the ocean erase any of this?
I only saw the headline and byline, but it appears one coroner believes that the time the body spent in the water would make it difficult to determine.

Meanwhile, a military analyst and submarine expert remarked that he found it extremely implausible that only one person on the sub would suffer carbon monoxide poisoning.

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Old 31st October 2017, 04:39 PM   #32
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How would this sub operate with just one person, anyway? There weren't any other people with them at the time?
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Old 31st October 2017, 06:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
How would this sub operate with just one person, anyway? There weren't any other people with them at the time?
No, just the two of them. It's a small submarine.
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Old 1st November 2017, 01:35 AM   #34
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Yellow Submarines only need one operator but can take four passengers.
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Old 1st November 2017, 11:12 AM   #35
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AFAIK Nautilus was built for single-man operations.

A minor correction the reports from yesterday, Peter Madsen's attorney has clarified that he's not made any admission as to what killed Kim Wall, but merely explained that he was in the conning tower, and that there was a carbon monoxide leak and negative pressure below deck.
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Old 1st November 2017, 11:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
A minor correction the reports from yesterday, Peter Madsen's attorney has clarified that he's not made any admission as to what killed Kim Wall, but merely explained that he was in the conning tower, and that there was a carbon monoxide leak and negative pressure below deck.
I'm betting that's true. Rig the leak, hide out in the tower while the supercargo asphyxiates, pop back down to dismember the body and scuttle the boat. And he would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for... Actually, he was never going to get away with it.
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Old 1st November 2017, 11:46 AM   #37
Argumemnon
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm betting that's true. Rig the leak, hide out in the tower while the supercargo asphyxiates, pop back down to dismember the body and scuttle the boat.
But why? Why kill the woman at all? What's the motive? Just derangement?
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Old 1st November 2017, 11:50 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
But why? Why kill the woman at all? What's the motive? Just derangement?
Could be necrophilia. He had a death thing, allegedly. (Based on the videos he allegedly had in his possession.)
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