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Tags obesity , obesity issues

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Old 12th October 2017, 09:12 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
As a male, I have heard it my whole life, even though I am not skinny at 5'10" 175. My daughter is 5'5" 105, eats healthy and a lot, but gets told she's anorexic. Shall I call the news and complain about a school teacher saying that to her?
I'm male, 6'4", and for most of my adult life I was about 155 lbs. I really was too skinny. But it wasn't because I didn't eat enough. I never, ever tried to restrict my eating. And if I had forced myself to eat more than I wanted to eat, then I just would have added fat, which wouldn't have helped. I needed to do something else.

A few years ago, I found out what. Now I'm about 205 lbs. I don't look that much heavier, because only some of that added weight is in my stomach, most of it went elsewhere.

I believe you that your daughter doesn't have an eating problem. But she might be like I was, in a position to benefit from adding muscle mass. It's not just guys who benefit, women do too. You need to eat in order to do that, but just eating isn't enough. Stronger is better, but you have to train to get stronger. It is a deliberate process, not an accidental condition. Anyone can do it, but it works best when you start young.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:41 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm male, 6'4", and for most of my adult life I was about 155 lbs. I really was too skinny. But it wasn't because I didn't eat enough. I never, ever tried to restrict my eating. And if I had forced myself to eat more than I wanted to eat, then I just would have added fat, which wouldn't have helped. I needed to do something else.

A few years ago, I found out what. Now I'm about 205 lbs. I don't look that much heavier, because only some of that added weight is in my stomach, most of it went elsewhere.

I believe you that your daughter doesn't have an eating problem. But she might be like I was, in a position to benefit from adding muscle mass. It's not just guys who benefit, women do too. You need to eat in order to do that, but just eating isn't enough. Stronger is better, but you have to train to get stronger. It is a deliberate process, not an accidental condition. Anyone can do it, but it works best when you start young.
My daughter is 18 and really enjoys crossfit and exercising, she just is on the smaller side. My son is 5'7" 130, but completed a full distance triathlon and really likes keeping in shape as well.

My wife and I are big proponents of exercise and eating healthy (but not even close to militant about it), so we have tried to instill that in the kids. Just don't like the double standard where it is fat shaming to point out unhealthy obesity, but perfectly fine to criticize a skinny person.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:46 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
You're smart enough to know that the difference between oldies and fatties.
Indeed. The old are far more expensive to healthcare and a much greater strain upon resources. So if, as this thread topic suggests, the cost of obesity constitutes a crisis then the cost of the elderly must therefore be a catastrophe. So why are we not working upon a solution?
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:53 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Indeed. The old are far more expensive to healthcare and a much greater strain upon resources.
Are they, though? Because there's a lot of comorbidity here. People tend to get fatter as they get older. Certainly old fat people are going to be the most expensive, and costs would be reduced if we could get them to not be fat. So how do the costs compare between old thin people and old fat people? Can you separate out how much of the cost is because they're old and how much is because they're fat?
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:01 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Indeed. The old are far more expensive to healthcare and a much greater strain upon resources. So if, as this thread topic suggests, the cost of obesity constitutes a crisis then the cost of the elderly must therefore be a catastrophe. So why are we not working upon a solution?
Because old people can't get any younger, but fat people can get thinner. I'm surprised you couldn't stumble upon this obvious difference yourself.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:02 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Because old people can't get any younger, but fat people can get thinner. I'm surprised you couldn't stumble upon this obvious difference yourself.
Never take anything TM says seriously. He's always joking.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:04 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
At the time I weighed 230. I got down to 180. I could not break the 180 mark. I was down to 1400 calories a day and I still could not lose anymore. And it gets a lot more challenging to get adequate nutrition ad 1400 calories a day LOL.
That's a pretty significant weight loss. Congratulations. How long ago was the weight loss, and do you feel stable at 180? Do you feel better or any different at the lighter weight?
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:08 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You've recommended this several times now, and I've almost taken the bait and bought the kindle version. Is it basically just an olympic weightlifting manual?

I currently do some weightlifting and lots of bodyweight work with bars and rings. I've never experimented with olympic lifting because I've been afraid of getting the technique wrong.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:10 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Let's not forget that it is perfectly acceptable to shame skinny people - "Eat a burger!" Runway models can be discussed constantly and told how they are not normal and they look unhealthy, but if you say it about a fat person, you are evil.

As a male, I have heard it my whole life, even though I am not skinny at 5'10" 175. My daughter is 5'5" 105, eats healthy and a lot, but gets told she's anorexic. Shall I call the news and complain about a school teacher saying that to her?
I'm skinnier than that and I'm often recommended - by 'big' people - to put on some weight (I'm bottom end of 'normal' on BMI calculators). If I returned the compliment to 'big' people around me I'd lose a fair few friends.

So, in that way, overweight is already normalised to an extent - people tend to judge themselves by what they see around them rather than by a slightly obscure calculation.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:33 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
I never understood this. Not picking on you, but it's a quote I've heard a lot.
Fair nuff

Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
I bring a couple pieces of fruit, a yogurt, some leftovers from dinner, a bottle of water to work. If I'm hungry, I grab something from my stash and eat it. I take my "lunch" break and walk two miles.
I've gotten a bit better at it lately.
Fruit has a short shelf life so buying it in smaller quantities and more often takes a bit of planning and effort. Can't eat yogurt. I do bring cans of soup in. Leftovers take a little bit of prep work in the morning to portion out.

I realize these are small bits of effort, but they do take a little planning and forethought.

Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Co-workers who don't bring a lunch take a half hour to walk out, find a place to eat, wait in line, either sit down at a restaurant or bring the food back to the office. Unless they order in. Then they have to pay and (*gasp) TIP!! Too rich for my blood.
Where i work there are at least 3 food courts at most 5 minutes away. So ya its TOO easy. and if you go before the lunch rush you don't have to wait. or tip

Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
I'm not seeing the time or convenience here. Takes me a couple minutes in the morning to put a few items in my lunch before I leave.
Not excusing it, its a small amount of effort I agree, but still more than just waltzing to the food court and throwing money at them for a hot meal.
Also, staying at my desk during lunch to eat is a bad idea. People will come by with 'emergencies' and I will end up working through lunch.

After a quick food court munch we almost always go for at least a medium length walk.


Just explaining myself, not justifying.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:45 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
You've recommended this several times now, and I've almost taken the bait and bought the kindle version. Is it basically just an olympic weightlifting manual?

I currently do some weightlifting and lots of bodyweight work with bars and rings. I've never experimented with olympic lifting because I've been afraid of getting the technique wrong.
Technically speaking, there are only two olympic lifts now: the snatch and the clean & jerk. The clean (without the jerk) often gets thrown in as well, but it's not a competition lift at the olympics. The important thing, though, is that all of these are fast lifts. They are explosive movements, you cannot do them slow. As such, they are actually not very well suited for most seniors. The power clean (a version of the clean) is part of the standard Starting Strength program, but it's typically left out for older lifters, and it's not an actual necessity even for younger lifters.

For seniors and those just wishing to get stronger, the primary barbell lifts are the "slow" lifts: the squat, the deadlift, the overhead press & the bench press. When you approach your limit weight, they will go slow.

The Barbell Prescription has some basic details on how to perform the lifts themselves, but the real bible in that regard is Starting Strength. That's the one with in-depth technique description. What the Barbell Prescription contains that isn't in Starting Strength is 1) a whole bunch of material about the health effects of strength training, and why it's so important for seniors, and 2) programming advice tailored specifically for older lifters, particularly once they get past the initial novice phase. By programming, I mean stuff like how many reps and sets and how to plan progressing the weight upwards.

If you just want technique, start with Starting Strength. The level of detail is amazing. It goes through an entire process of not just how to do the lifts, but step-by-step instructions for how to learn it, and thorough analysis of why to do it that way as well.

And it doesn't matter how old you are, it's never too late.
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Last edited by Ziggurat; 12th October 2017 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:55 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Because old people can't get any younger, but fat people can get thinner. I'm surprised you couldn't stumble upon this obvious difference yourself.
There is one way to stop the aging process. It's 100% effective. I propose it, modestly, as a potential solution to the scourge of elder care costs.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:58 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
There is one way to stop the aging process. It's 100% effective. I propose it, modestly, as a potential solution to the scourge of elder care costs.
What, eat them?

That'll just make the obesity epidemic worse among the young!
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:01 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What, eat them?

That'll just make the obesity epidemic worse among the young!
I suppose that passes for humor in some circles. No, of course not. Euthanasia. The corpses can be disposed of in the usual manners.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:15 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You can buy asbestos-free cereal? I'm totally buying that next time! No more asbestos for me!
The asbestos free cereal is two aisles over from the gluten free bottled water.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:29 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
The asbestos free cereal is two aisles over from the gluten free bottled water.
I don't care if my bottled water is gluten free, as long as it's cage-free.
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Old 12th October 2017, 01:06 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Dr Cat Pause????

The Fat Studies degree looks fake to me. Not buying it. The lecturer's name is too ridiculous to be true.
It's not. Like I said, she's an American, which explains both her size and the idiotic name. NZ is a paradise for weirdos - our inclusive nature lets people like that in, then the poor, defensively insular Kiwis treat them like demigods because they're not from Eketahuna or Timaru and we end with the government paying their salaries.

Very bloody sad, but 100% true.

Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
It is due to gluttony.

There might be an underlying cause (emotional problems, eating disorders and so on), but obesity is caused by consuming a significant excess of calories over an extended period of time.

This is whats commonly understood to be gluttony.

And we need to stop making excuses for it.
Bravo!

Telling it like it is isn't always popular, but I'm a big fan.

Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
There are many other modest proposals that can help.
Oh, I hope that was deliberate!

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
What I do find concerning, though is the notion that the government can really do something about it.
To me, the parallel with the reduction in smoking is both obvious and proof that governments can make a difference.

How many cigarette ads have you seen lately?
Have increased taxes put people off smoking?
Have shock ads put people off smoking?
Have government subsidies to anti-smoking devices/groups helped people quit?

Why would similar things not work for lard?

Disallow fast food ads, and introduce taxes on those foods with money used to promote healthy eating and choices, training thickos how to buy & cook decent food and other positive measures.

See how that goes and get back to me.

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
As for a shock ad campaign, you are certainly going against the grain there; fat-shaming is a big no-no these days.
Yes, someone might cry.

It doesn't have to be shaming - showing a 3-tonne coffin being loaded into a pit isn't shaming.

Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
Obesity has all sorts of costs, societal and person. There's nothing good about being fat.

People get defensive when it's brought up, know matter how gently.
Betcha the guys still try to suck their gigantic stomachs in when a pretty girl walks past though.
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Old 12th October 2017, 01:14 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
I never understood this. Not picking on you, but it's a quote I've heard a lot.

I bring a couple pieces of fruit, a yogurt, some leftovers from dinner, a bottle of water to work. If I'm hungry, I grab something from my stash and eat it. I take my "lunch" break and walk two miles.

Co-workers who don't bring a lunch take a half hour to walk out, find a place to eat, wait in line, either sit down at a restaurant or bring the food back to the office. Unless they order in. Then they have to pay and (*gasp) TIP!! Too rich for my blood.

I'm not seeing the time or convenience here. Takes me a couple minutes in the morning to put a few items in my lunch before I leave.
When I worked in the City it was looked down on to bring in your own lunch. So, we'd all go out and get sandwiches at the nearest Pret. It was a case of being far too busy and important to be seen counting the pennies. As I often went straight out of the door after getting up and dressed, I often really didn't have time.

Then one day, I sat down and added up how much it was costing me: something like £20 a week or nearly £100 pcm for a crap sandwich with no butter and disappointing ingredients half the time, even the BLT sometimes had undercooked bacon. (Although, in general Pret sandwiches are delicious.)

So I stopped and have saved a fortune.

As for gluttony. My boss was huge, a compulsive eater. He hated being fat, but he loved his food even more. He used to take us out for a meal several times a month on the pretext of 'team building' and then he'd stuff his face silly with everything on the menu and charge it to his expense account.

We all knew we were just there to support his food addiction.
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Old 12th October 2017, 01:36 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
When I worked in the City it was looked down on to bring in your own lunch. So, we'd all go out and get sandwiches at the nearest Pret. It was a case of being far too busy and important to be seen counting the pennies. As I often went straight out of the door after getting up and dressed, I often really didn't have time.
I have never attempted to quantify what I may have missed out on from a networking perspective by brown-bagging (as we call it around here). I've done it for years. My reputation for frugality is known far and wide.

Could be that £20 a week led to opportunities you may not have otherwise had if you weren't well known and well liked. Really hard to say exactly what the better choice is financially. From a health perspective, it is challenging to eat healthy with reasonable portions around here when you dine out.
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Old 12th October 2017, 02:16 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
I have never attempted to quantify what I may have missed out on from a networking perspective by brown-bagging (as we call it around here). I've done it for years. My reputation for frugality is known far and wide.

Could be that £20 a week led to opportunities you may not have otherwise had if you weren't well known and well liked. Really hard to say exactly what the better choice is financially. From a health perspective, it is challenging to eat healthy with reasonable portions around here when you dine out.
In British English, working in "The City" means the City of London and specifically the finance business. £20 would be *very* small change there 30 years ago. Akin to saying "when I was in Wall St" (Possibly a bit more general, as I'm not so familiar with the US).
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:16 PM   #101
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When I was overweight nobody said a word about it except occasionally my mother. When I was losing weight I was still above the midpoint of the healthy BMI range when people started saying "you're surely not going to lose any more!" and "don't you think you ought to stop now?" in concerned tones.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:20 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Let's not forget that it is perfectly acceptable to shame skinny people - "Eat a burger!" Runway models can be discussed constantly and told how they are not normal and they look unhealthy, but if you say it about a fat person, you are evil.

As a male, I have heard it my whole life, even though I am not skinny at 5'10" 175. My daughter is 5'5" 105, eats healthy and a lot, but gets told she's anorexic. Shall I call the news and complain about a school teacher saying that to her?
I think this is illustrative about how plump is the new "normal". Like you I'm not particularly skinny but I'm regularly told that I should eat more or gain weight. I know people mean well and maybe they even think that they're giving me a compliment but being told that you need to change your body shape when you work somewhat to achieve that body shape seems insensitive to me.

When I was much younger I was about 30 lbs lighter than I am now and attracted fewer comments about my light weight than I do today.

On a related note, I not find it nigh-on impossible to find clothes off the peg that fit. Clothing retailers still do a 32"(waist)/34"(length) trouser/jean but the 32" waist is so enormous these days in all the retailers I've tried that I'd need a 30" or even a 28" waist for it to fit properly. We're enabling obesity by telling people that they still have a 34 inch waist when in fact their waist is approaching 40 inches.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:26 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
In British English, working in "The City" means the City of London and specifically the finance business. £20 would be *very* small change there 30 years ago. Akin to saying "when I was in Wall St" (Possibly a bit more general, as I'm not so familiar with the US).
I've had a few spells there.

Back in the late 80's/early 90's you were expected to go out to lunch. Brown-bagging was not only frowned upon, it was actually prohibited and in any case you couldn't eat at your desk/office. There was a definite split between those for whom lunch was a waste of time - they had money to make - and those for whom a long and boozy lunch was a badge of honour.

By the late 90's the culture seemed to have changed somewhat and a greater number of people were eating at their desks. The "city lunch" seemed to have gone out of fashion and people were expected to be (largely) sober all day

Last time I was in Canary Wharf it seemed that a lot of people were actually making use of the staff restaurant. Back in the day it was only the "little people" like cleaners and IT staff who would get something there but even the traders now popped in from time to time and/or picked up something to eat at their desk.
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Old 13th October 2017, 05:53 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
On a related note, I not find it nigh-on impossible to find clothes off the peg that fit. Clothing retailers still do a 32"(waist)/34"(length) trouser/jean but the 32" waist is so enormous these days in all the retailers I've tried that I'd need a 30" or even a 28" waist for it to fit properly. We're enabling obesity by telling people that they still have a 34 inch waist when in fact their waist is approaching 40 inches.

Exactly this. My waist finally measures my pant size now that I've lost 20 lbs. However, I can't keep my pants up anymore without drilling new holes in my belt.

I was feeling good knowing that I needed to go down at least two inches. Then I got the tape measure out and realized it was all an illusion.
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:47 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think this is illustrative about how plump is the new "normal". Like you I'm not particularly skinny but I'm regularly told that I should eat more or gain weight. I know people mean well and maybe they even think that they're giving me a compliment but being told that you need to change your body shape when you work somewhat to achieve that body shape seems insensitive to me.

When I was much younger I was about 30 lbs lighter than I am now and attracted fewer comments about my light weight than I do today.

On a related note, I not find it nigh-on impossible to find clothes off the peg that fit. Clothing retailers still do a 32"(waist)/34"(length) trouser/jean but the 32" waist is so enormous these days in all the retailers I've tried that I'd need a 30" or even a 28" waist for it to fit properly. We're enabling obesity by telling people that they still have a 34 inch waist when in fact their waist is approaching 40 inches.
Same for women. My wife and daughter trying to find pants can be a chore, with my daughter needing a 0 or 00 and my wife a 2 or 4 - but long enough that they are high waters. I'm a little better off now that I don't need a 28" waist.
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Old 14th October 2017, 12:17 AM   #106
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I find it very indicative of society's attitude to weight in that we see a lot of sympathy for people with eating disorders if they are are eating disorders which make people underweight. But not the same sympathy for those who are obese (not fat) and are harming themselves like the under eaters do.
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Old 14th October 2017, 02:24 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I find it very indicative of society's attitude to weight in that we see a lot of sympathy for people with eating disorders if they are are eating disorders which make people underweight. But not the same sympathy for those who are obese (not fat) and are harming themselves like the under eaters do.
1 Anorexics usually die young.
2 The obese get the same sympathy given to their close relatives, alcoholics & drug addicts.
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I was in the local bank yesterday when a bloke walked in. He was about 5' 8" tall and must have weighed 200 kg. (440 lbs) Aged late 20s/early 30s.

He had to physically squeeze himself through the quite wide doorway, and after having walked all of 15 metres from his car, by the time he got to me he was puffing like he'd run a marathon.

They can't be enjoying that.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:31 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
[snip]
If you just want technique, start with Starting Strength. The level of detail is amazing. It goes through an entire process of not just how to do the lifts, but step-by-step instructions for how to learn it, and thorough analysis of why to do it that way as well.

And it doesn't matter how old you are, it's never too late.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm 6'5" and about 10 years ago I let my weight balloon up to almost 280 lbs. I started working out and eating better and quickly got to 235-240 lbs which I maintained for quite a while, even though I slacked off a bit on nutrition and exercise. A few years later I started training for a marathon and dipped under 230 lbs, but after stopping consistent running I was back at my "normal" weight of 235-240 lbs.

Recently I started getting more serious about what I was eating and I joined a gym again. I'm now 215-220 lbs without much effort as it's easy to maintain. I bring my lunch to work every day. I keep it simple and eat lots of vegetables and usually chicken breast for protein. I avoid sugar in anything except for some meals on weekends when I allow myself to have some treats.

A few weeks ago I started the Starting Strength method. My time at the gym has decreased as all I do are combinations of squat, deadlift, bench press, overhead press, and bentover rows. I do five sets of five reps, but only do three of the above exercises each visit to the gym. Gym days are three times a week. I add a little bit of weight to the barbell each time. It works. I'm already getting stronger and seeing some physical changes. My weight has dropped but I need to eat more calories as I am trying to add more muscle. Going hungry is not something I have to worry about; I actually force myself to have additional (healthy) snacks.

This program is definitely in the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid) mode. I enjoy working out. It doesn't take much time. There has been no need to count calories and I am not hungry. Wish I would have started this earlier, but as Ziggurat says, it's never too late.
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:38 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I find it very indicative of society's attitude to weight in that we see a lot of sympathy for people with eating disorders if they are are eating disorders which make people underweight. But not the same sympathy for those who are obese (not fat) and are harming themselves like the under eaters do.

$ee thread title for one rea$on Fat people cost society more money.

Skinny people never take up more than one seat.
Fat people can inconvenience people in many ways. Skinny people usually do not.

Perhaps it's also that skinny people can only get so skinny, and even then their body shape more closely resembles that of a normal human being than someone with rolls of fat. Maybe skinny people look more "normal"?
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:55 AM   #110
Rolfe
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I find it very indicative of society's attitude to weight in that we see a lot of sympathy for people with eating disorders if they are are eating disorders which make people underweight. But not the same sympathy for those who are obese (not fat) and are harming themselves like the under eaters do.

Actually, you can look at this a different way. If you're losing weight, it's common for friends to comment on this and express concern that you're losing too much, even at a point where you're still in the upper half of the recommended BMI range. Remarks like "but you're not going to lose any more, surely!" and "you've stopped now though?", followed by furrowed brows and concerned muttering if you indicate that you have a target BMI of 20 or 21, are commonplace. (I don't mind the ones who ask "are you losing weight on purpose?" but once they have been assured that you are, and maybe you start enthusiastically boring them senseless about your diet regimen, the only correct response should be "congratulations, well done you.")

On the other hand, if you're gaining weight, to remark on this and suggest gently that you might think about levelling off now, seems to be regarded as the height of rudeness. Even if the person concerned is passing into the "obese" category.

Of course this is friends I'm talking about, but constructive advice to stop losing weight seems to be regarded as acceptable even when it's not appropriate, but constructive advice to stop gaining weight is regarded as "fat shaming" and so unacceptable, even when it is entirely appropriate. I wonder if this could ever change?

Behind-the-back remarks from third parties are another matter, I agree. I remember standing in a stall at an agricultural show last year and watching a morbidly obese woman walk waddle past pushing a small child in a go-chair. I thought "good grief, she is massive, who could possibly fancy that?" but kept my thoughts to myself. Then several other people manning the stall laughed at a remark from someone which I hadn't overheard. I asked what was so funny, and apparently one of the group had remarked, "would that not be enough to turn you gay!"

If a very thin stranger walked past then I think the thoughts would be more concern that the person was ill with a wasting disease, maybe cancer, and nobody would be making cruel jokes.

I think perhaps this aspect is explained by the fact that being too thin is usually associated with illness, whether or not it is mental illness, so it's easy to approach it from that perspective. However being overweight is not universally regarded as a mental illness. I don't know if that ought to change or not.
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