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Old 27th October 2003, 09:00 PM   #1
Kumar
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Possible Scientific Foundations of Homeopathy

Static electricity is created when an object gives up or gains electrons. Rubbing wool over something made of plastic or hard rubber gives that object a positive charge which will attract any object with a lesser charge. The wool gives up electrons to the plastic. This kind of charge is called "static" because it is not moving along a wire or other conductor.

TRIBOELECTRIC SERIES
When we rub two different materials together, which becomes positively charged and which becomes negative? Scientists have ranked materials in order of their ability to hold or give up electrons. This ranking is called the triboelectric series. A list of some common materials is shown here. Under ideal conditions, if two materials are rubbed together, the one higher on the list should give up electrons and become positively charged.

TRIBOELECTRIC SERIES
your hand
glass
your hair
nylon
wool
fur
silk
paper
cotton
hard rubber
polyester
polyvinylchloride plastic

CONSERVATION OF CHARGE
When we charge something with static electricity, no electrons are made or destroyed. No new protons appear or disappear. Electrons are just moved from one place to another. The net, or total, electric charge stays the same. This is called the principle of conservation of charge.

If we can link above concept with the working of homeopathic remedies?
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Old 27th October 2003, 09:05 PM   #2
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Re: Static Electricity & Homeopathic Remedies

Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
If we can link above concept with the working of homeopathic remedies?
Since homeopathic remedies don't work, I wouldn't spend too much mental energy on this...
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Old 27th October 2003, 09:55 PM   #3
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Re: Static Electricity & Homeopathic Remedies

Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar

If we can link above concept with the working of homeopathic remedies?
No, static electricity can't play a role in homeopathy, for the simple reason that water is a conductor, both in our bodies and in any "remedy". And why do you keep looking for reasons to explain something that doesn't exist?
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Old 27th October 2003, 10:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
And why do you keep looking for reasons to explain something that doesn't exist?
The current status of homeopathic remedies seems to be as under;

' Homeopathic remedies are observed & experianced as effective by homeopathic community, but the scientific reasoning of its working could not be yet ascertained by the current science community with their available theories & technologies. '

I am, therefore, trying to find out some justified reasoning for the same.

Homeopathic remedies(HR) are also prepared by trituration with lactose & sussussion with alcohol.
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Old 28th October 2003, 04:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar

Homeopathic remedies(HR) are also prepared by trituration with lactose & sussussion with alcohol.
Since most are made in water and your theory can't made made to fit for water this is irelivent.
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Old 28th October 2003, 06:24 AM   #6
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How can the Homeopathic community possibly claim it works? Homeo went out in the late 1800's and early 1900's here in the USA because it was a total, complete failure. It is popular now because people forgot, and those who knew died out. However, we know that the clinical trials of homeo failed because of "Homeopathy and its Kindred Delusions" written by Oliver Wendall Holmes MD, Dean of Harvard Medical School, who assisted in and wrote about homeopathy regarding human clinical trials. Further, the Horizons test, the Beneviste failures, and the complete failure of anyone anywhere to even determine which solutions are homeopathic vs. distilled water under any controlled circumstances is solid evidence to how silly it really is. Then there is the JREF million. curious how not one homeopath can simply do what they claim to and get the million.
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Old 28th October 2003, 07:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Homeopathic remedies are observed & experianced as effective by homeopathic community, ....
The homoeopathic community is under the collective delusion that these remedies work. They do not.

It is a matter of amazement to many people how large a proportion of medical and veterinary patients recover even if no treatment at all is given. Homoeopathy claims all these as successes. The homoeopaths are also very good at pretending to themselves and persuading others that an improvement has occurred when in fact it has not. That, frankly, is all there is to it - well, that and the fact that there is a lot of money to be made by selling content-free medicines.

Even the homoeopathic establishment is now having to accept that in clinical trials no effect can be demonstrated. This hasn't put a crimp in their belief systems, but it has caused them to turn to novel ways of explaining how come it works in the clinic (they claim), but not in the trials.

All the ideas Kumar has dreamed up over the past week or so have already been thought of and disproved - potential energy, last week, wasn't it?, and now static electricity. There are a lot more where these came from, including the biophoton, structured clusters of water molecules, coherent vibration of water molecules, arrangements of unusual hydrogen and oxygen isotopes in the water, and chaos theory. All of these have proved groundless, and the fact is that there's no point in even trying to find an explanation for an effect that doesn't exist.

As for the committedly deluded homoeopaths, for whom no amount of negative clinical trial evidence will ever be sufficient to persuade them that it doesn't work, well, they're now into magic. The latest "cutting-edge" theory is that it is the effect of the mind of the practitioner, getting involved in quantum entanglement with the remedy and the patient. Some of them agree that this is essentially another way of saying that they are practising magic, others get offended by the use of the word, but it's all the same thing. The homoeopath is the magician, and the remedy is a magic spell. Fine, but they still haven't proved that it works!

The best papers on this are no longer free-access, and frankly $30 a pop is too expensive to read the rubbish they spout, but the abstracts are there:

M<FONT SIZE="-1">ILGROM</FONT>, L. R. (2002) Patient-practitioner-remedy (PPR) entanglement. Part 1: a qualitative, non-local metaphor for homeopathy based on quantum theory. Homeopathy 91, 239-248

M<FONT SIZE="-1">ILGROM</FONT>, L. R. (2003a) Patient-practitioner-remedy (PPR) entanglement. Part 2: extending the metaphor for homeopathy using molecular quantum theory. Homeopathy 92, 35-43

M<FONT SIZE="-1">ILGROM</FONT>, L. R. (2003b) Patient-practitioner-remedy (PPR) entanglement. Part 3: refining the quantum metaphor for homeopathy. Homeopathy 92, 152-160.

T<FONT SIZE="-1">HORESEN</FONT>, A. S. (2003) Ein Beitrag zur Erkl&auml;rung des klinischen Effects von Hom&ouml;opatie und Akupunktur. Ganzheitliche Tiermedizin 17, 75-78. (This link leads to an English version of the article.)

W<FONT SIZE="-1">ALACH</FONT>, H. (2000) Magic of signs: a non-local interpretation of homeopathy. Br. Hom. J. 89, 127-140

W<FONT SIZE="-1">EING&Auml;RTNER</FONT>, O. (2003) What is the therapeutically active ingredient of homeopathic potencies? Homeopathy 92, 145-151.

Frankly, Kumar, it's all been said before, and very often. If you're interested, why not go and read up about it. HomeoWatch is a good place to start, and even though it's a sceptical site you can find good links there to proponent points of view as well. Read what's there, then come back and debate from a position of knowledge. I particularly recommend the article by Oliver Wendell Holmes referred to by another poster. This was written in 1842, but it still manages to cover just about every point.

Another point you might like to consider is that the way the majority of homoeopathic remedies are delivered is using a lactose "pillule". This is not lactose that has been triturated, but an ordinary blob of lactose onto which a little of the succussed (shaken and diluted water/alcohol) remedy has been dropped and allowed to evaporate. Given that there is no solute in the solution to remain behind, and all the solvent evaporates, how does this affect your suggested modes of action?

There is a mystery to homoeopathy, but it's not how it works. The mystery is that even in the 21st century, educated people are still being sucked in by such an obviously delusional fraud. The answers to that lie deep within the psyche, to do with the way the brain is wired up, and a lot becomes clearer if you find out more about magical thinking and Sympathetic Magic.
Quote:
IF we analyse the principles of thought on which magic is based, they will probably be found to resolve themselves into two: first, that like produces like, or that an effect resembles its cause; and, second, that things which have once been in contact with each other continue to act on each other at a distance after the physical contact has been severed. The former principle may be called the Law of Similarity, the latter the Law of Contact or Contagion.... (and so on....)
Rolfe.
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Old 28th October 2003, 08:17 AM   #8
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Nice post Rolfe. I enjoyed your link to magical thinking also. Thanks.
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Old 28th October 2003, 08:33 AM   #9
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Thaks all for comments.

Rolfe,

Special thanks to you for long posting with informations. Homeopathy have mainly two type of remedies. One is in C potency and another is in X potency. X potencies are triturated by using 1+9 parts of salt & lactose. Homeopathic remedies works or not is a secondary issue & can be justified to scientific community only after science of working of these remedies can be understood.

Please just give your opinions that whether rubbing/triturating can produce static electricity which can be stored in homeopathic remedies or not? Touching of remedy's tabs. is avoided, may due to this concept.
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Old 28th October 2003, 08:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Please just give your opinions that whether rubbing/triturating can produce static electricity which can be stored in homeopathic remedies or not? Touching of remedy's tabs. is avoided, may due to this concept.
No, it can't. It's a completely senseless idea. And even if it could, there's no possible way such "energy" could affect cell metabolism. And anyway, trying to dream up fanciful "explanations" is pointless, when there is no effect to explain.

Part of the homoeopathic fraud involves all sorts of silly prohibitions surrounding the remedies, to deceive people into thinking there's some sort of "power" there. Not putting them through airport baggage scanners is a recent one. And of course this sort of thing is always handy if you have a dissatisfied patient. "Well, you must have touched it / x-rayed it / stored the bottle upside down ...." is one way of fobbing these people off.

Now please go and find out what has already been written about the subject before discussing it further.

Rolfe.
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Old 28th October 2003, 09:40 AM   #11
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You may say so but frankly, I have personal experiance of three years as positive with these remedies. I can differanciate between 'effect' or ' no effect '.
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Old 28th October 2003, 09:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
You may say so but frankly, I have personal experiance of three years as positive with these remedies. I can differanciate between 'effect' or ' no effect '.
That's what they all say. It's delusional. Sorry.

Rolfe.
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Old 28th October 2003, 10:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
You may say so but frankly, I have personal experiance of three years as positive with these remedies. I can differanciate between 'effect' or ' no effect '.
Do you ever use evil Western medicine when you get sick? I sincerely hope that you do not, and that when you've got acute pnuemonia and your doctor says "we'll need to give you antibiotics," you say "No doctor for static electrivitcy tritration in lactosee so I just take pill that one touched electron conservation and I get better with results I SEE! and I have experience possitve of many years."

It's your funeral.

You're an idiot. Static electricity? Jesus, go read a book, Kumar.
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Old 28th October 2003, 10:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rolfe
As for the committedly deluded homoeopaths, for whom no amount of negative clinical trial evidence will ever be sufficient to persuade them that it doesn't work, ....
Obviously, this category includes Kumar. This more or less kills any prospect of further discussion.

I wonder how he squares this stance with his posts on diabetes, where he seems to think that he knows better than millions of endocrinologists studying this very common condition over decades, on the basis of four weeks thinking about one case? At least there he still appeared to be accepting that insulin is the treatment of choice - or so I thought. Perhaps he really thinks that the less insulin you give, the better the patient will do, and that homoeopathic insulin would cure the condition completely?

This isn't a serious comment, but it's certainly one way to interpret his remarkably confused posts in that thread.

By the way, did anyone else notice his (so far) final post in another homoeopathy thread?
Quote:
Beauty due to elasticity of the science >>> Yesterday's Dead >> Today Alive >> Tomorrow Dead, OR Yesterday's Alive >> Today Dead >> Tomorrow Alive.....Alas!!... so on???
That is the complete post, by the way. This seems to have completely killed what was an interesting discussion about a particular piece of published work, and I nominate it for this month's "craziest post of the forums" award.

Forgive me if I run out of patience with this lunatic, who has been told what to read several times, but just keeps coming back inflicting his bizarre ideas on us - homoeopathy "works" by some simple physical effect, excess insulin causes insulin resistance only nobody else ever realised this before, and the Mahabharata is literally true and the ancient Hindus could split the atom (I think - he's not entirely clear).

Anyone for some intelligent debate?

Rolfe.
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Old 28th October 2003, 11:21 AM   #15
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Rolfe, I admire and envy your patience. I'd also like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation for your thoughtful and informative posts.
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Old 28th October 2003, 11:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
You may say so but frankly, I have personal experiance of three years as positive with these remedies. I can differanciate between 'effect' or ' no effect '.
Apparently you cannot differentiate between 'anecdote' and 'data'. Homeopathy fails in controlled, double-blind studies. Any anecdotes experienced by you or a friend of your friend are irrelevant.
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Old 28th October 2003, 12:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
You may say so but frankly, I have personal experiance of three years as positive with these remedies. I can differanciate between 'effect' or ' no effect '.
Kumar, I don't think it is any accident this line has been quoted so many times. There is nothing that you have said that so completely differentiates your thought processes with those of most of the people that post to this forum.
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Old 28th October 2003, 01:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Kumar: You may say so but frankly, I have personal experiance of three years as positive with these remedies. I can differanciate between 'effect' or ' no effect '.
Since no one has mentioned it yet, I will. If you can differentiate between effect and no effect, then you should apply for the million dollar prize offered by JREF.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
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Old 28th October 2003, 02:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by xouper
Since no one has mentioned it yet, I will. If you can differentiate between effect and no effect, then you should apply for the million dollar prize offered by JREF.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
Hey, don't tell him! I'm trying to manoeuvre a homoeopath who thinks he can do this into applying, and get this - he says he needs a "proving group" of ten people to do the differentiation, and he keeps challenging me to take part. Now, for $100,000, I might be persuaded.

You'll spoil it all if Kumar gets it first!

(Funny how they all say they can do it, but we can't even get ONE of them to apply....)

Rolfe.
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Old 28th October 2003, 07:33 PM   #20
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$ 1 m may never be encashed because one who can know ( entitled by God to know ) will not do it for sake of money & one who want to do it for sake for money can never know, the real logic !

Do we just read but don't learn anything from good words? One such;

Excellent Observation

All truth passes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
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Old 28th October 2003, 07:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Excellent Observation

All truth passes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Since homeopathy is a fake, phony, fraud and falsehood, aand has been so since inception more than 200 years ago, your observation does not apply.
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Old 28th October 2003, 08:00 PM   #22
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Is it an absolute fact?
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Old 28th October 2003, 08:02 PM   #23
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Yes. Any other questions?
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Old 28th October 2003, 08:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Kumar: $ 1 m may never be encashed because one who can know ( entitled by God to know ) will not do it for sake of money & one who want to do it for sake for money can never know, the real logic !
Then don't do it for the money - donate the million dollars to one of God's favorite charities - I'm sure God would like you to do that. In the meantime, why should anyone believe you can differentiate effect or no effect, if you are not willing to demonstrate that you can actually do it?

Quote:
All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
The key word here is "truth". N-Rays come to mind as an example of a scientific "discovery" that was ridiculed and never got to step three and never will.

First you must establish the truth of homeopathy. That has not yet been done. It is not logical to conclude that just because something has made it to step one or two that it will eventually make it to step three.
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Old 28th October 2003, 08:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by xouper
It is not logical to conclude that just because something has made it to step one or two that it will eventually make it to step three.
Wouldn't one think that 200+ years at stage one is a bit of a clue here?
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Old 28th October 2003, 09:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Kumar>Is it an absolute fact?
Btox>Yes. Any other questions?
Btox,

Then you will also say boldly that it is also an absolute fact that there is no value of all sprituals,religion, God etc.

Then don't do it for the money - donate the million dollars to one of God's favorite charities

xouper,

OK agreed a comitment.
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Old 28th October 2003, 09:52 PM   #27
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Kumar, are you making a genuine and clear commitment to try for the JREF US$1,000,000 prize here?

If so, please complete these vital steps:

1. Make sure you specify EXACTLY what your claim is that you can do. For example: You can accurately determine homeopathic solutions from distilled water by some method.

2. Make sure you specify a testing process that can be confirmed as scientifically testable and completely fair and agreeable to both yourself and the testers. There must be NO chance that ANYONE can interfere with the tests in any way, and the judging process must be completely open, fair and unequivocal (i.e. obvious that you pass or fail).

3. Make sure you specify what your level of success is for your claim. For example: You might claim you are correct 90% or more of the time.

4. Determine what conditions, if any, you would accept that would show that your claim has FAILED. For example: Consistently scoring chance or less percentage correct means you have not met your claimed accuracy.

5. Fill in the application form and send it in! I'm sure Mr Randi would appreciate testing a genuine claimant who is ready to go!


You will note that (a) no-one here is going to question your method, because it will not be important until you demonstrate scientific viability, (b) we do not concern ourselves as to what you wish to do with the money, should you succeed, and (c) we wish to see a completely fair and open and scientific testing process for you.

Are you prepared to do that?
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Old 28th October 2003, 10:26 PM   #28
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What do you learn from my postings. Does it indicate all those things which you are imagining. You all tell me I should not imagine,speculate,hypothesis etc. but what you are doing is not a imagination,speculation,hypothesis etc. about me. Sprituals,homeopathy or all other than science is acceped & followed by millions or may be most of the world's population against a small minority, do you want to say that all those are fools,illitrate,silly,non-sense etc. Try to find diamonds in the coal,not burn it to make it coal!!
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Old 28th October 2003, 11:04 PM   #29
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Kumar said:
Quote:
Sprituals,homeopathy or all other than science is acceped & followed by millions or may be most of the world's population against a small minority, do you want to say that all those are fools,illitrate,silly,non-sense etc.
This would be a very powerful argument if all the world's population believed the same stuff and this small minority (of which most of the people here are part of) thought they were wrong.

As it is this "most of the world's population" believes all sorts of different stuff, a great deal of which is mutually exclusive. So it takes no great hubris to attempt to take an objective view of the data and decide that a whole lot of people believe stuff that is almost certainly false.
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Old 29th October 2003, 04:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Sprituals,homeopathy or all other than science ....
Well, we seem to have found some common ground. Homoeopathy is paranormal, and classed as "other than science". Yup, I'll buy that.

This is in effect the same line as that taken by Walach and Thoresen (explicitly) and Milgrom (implicitly) in those papers I posted links to somewhere above. Right, and the same line taken by the JREF too. If there is an effect there, it is paranormal.

So now we're clear that we're not talking about a simple physical or chemical process such as static electricity or "potential energy", but about a spiritual or supernatural effect, the way is clear.

Application form for the challenge is downloadable from http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html. And I was only joking in my previous post. I don't think my esteemed colleague Mr. Hoare is going to win that money, nor do I think Sourush Ebrahimi will succeed either. I'd just like ONE of these guys who constantly tell us what remarkable and unmistakable effects homoeopathic preparations have, just to TRY for the money.
Quote:
Even if the money is irrelevant, what about the publicity value? Winning that prize for homoeopathy would stun the critics dead in their tracks. The system and its proponents would be resoundingly vindicated. The world would be at your feet. But still, nobody seems to want to try.
Go for it, Kumar!

Rolfe.
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Old 29th October 2003, 06:19 AM   #31
DangerousBeliefs
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
What do you learn from my postings. Does it indicate all those things which you are imagining. You all tell me I should not imagine,speculate,hypothesis etc. but what you are doing is not a imagination,speculation,hypothesis etc. about me. Sprituals,homeopathy or all other than science is acceped & followed by millions or may be most of the world's population against a small minority, do you want to say that all those are fools,illitrate,silly,non-sense etc. Try to find diamonds in the coal,not burn it to make it coal!!
Kumar,

This is an appeal to popularity.

The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:
1. Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
2. Therefore X is true.

For example, at one time, ancient people thought the wind was generated by spirits living in the air. Did this make it true? No.

If most people thought 1+1=3, would this make it true? No.

Perhaps you should learn about critical thinking and logical fallacies.

http://www.csicop.org/si/9012/critical-thinking.html
http://www.criticalthinking.org/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~urban/docs/baloney.html
http://www.cuyamaca.net/bruce.thomps...cies/index.asp
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Old 29th October 2003, 02:29 PM   #32
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Re: Re: Static Electricity & Homeopathic Remedies

Quote:
Originally posted by Ziggurat


No, static electricity can't play a role in homeopathy, for the simple reason that water is a conductor, both in our bodies and in any "remedy". And why do you keep looking for reasons to explain something that doesn't exist?
Not trying to be a smart-a$$, I should point out that a) it is perfectly possible for a conductor to hold a charge as long as it's insulated, and b) water is not much of a conductor without dissolved ions in it.

Since "homeopathy" has never been defined in any way such that reasonable people can test its claims, it's a meaningless question as to what connection it may have to electricity.
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Old 29th October 2003, 04:14 PM   #33
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All that is truth is ridiculed.

Not all that is ridiculed is truth.
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Old 29th October 2003, 04:21 PM   #34
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Re: Re: Re: Static Electricity & Homeopathic Remedies

Quote:
Originally posted by phildonnia

Not trying to be a smart-a$$, I should point out that a) it is perfectly possible for a conductor to hold a charge as long as it's insulated, and b) water is not much of a conductor without dissolved ions in it.
Yeah, yeah, I know. For the purposes Kumar was suggesting, static electricity in water isn't a possible mechanism, and there's no point in getting into subtleties with him (I made that mistake in a previous thread, regarding ancient greek ideas of atoms). Might as well try to cure brain cancer by rubbing a baloon against your hair and then licking it.
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Old 29th October 2003, 04:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zamzara
All that is truth is ridiculed.
So, if you're saying homeopathy is true?

If so, it is ridiculed because it lacks any solid supporting evidence. In fact, it has been debunked time and time again. It's only support comes from anecedotal evidence of its less-than-bright users.
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Old 29th October 2003, 04:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs

So, if you're saying homeopathy is true?
I certainly am not.
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Old 29th October 2003, 04:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
What do you learn from my postings. Does it indicate all those things which you are imagining. You all tell me I should not imagine,speculate,hypothesis etc. but what you are doing is not a imagination,speculation,hypothesis etc. about me. Sprituals,homeopathy or all other than science is acceped & followed by millions or may be most of the world's population against a small minority, do you want to say that all those are fools,illitrate,silly,non-sense etc. Try to find diamonds in the coal,not burn it to make it coal!!
Kumar, if this is all true and millions of people believing it make homeopathy or such like true as you say then you should be able to pass the JREF testing extremely easily. If you take or leave the money if you win, we don't really care, but actually proving homeopathy to be true FOR THE FIRST TIME ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD UNDER SCIENTIFIC CONDITIONS would make you extraordinarily famous just to start with. Not to mention poking all the world's skeptics in the eye.

So all you have to do to acheive this is fill in the application form and work out the testing procedure with the JREF, similar to what I outlined above. And then go for it. You seem so confident, so it should be very easy.

So are you going to apply, or are you not? Yes or no. Easy question, easy answer.
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Old 29th October 2003, 08:33 PM   #38
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Thanks all for all types of posting except pretaining to the main question. Homeopathy works or not that can be checked by anyone easily by visiting the homeopath's clinics & taking vote/opinions from several patients who are continiously taking the treatments. I think the present status of homeopathic treatment is as under:-

1. The people who cares for the side & adverse effects of allopathy, takes homeopathic treatment for their day to day minor/regular problems.

2. The people who knows technicalities of homeopathy & allopathy both, takes homeopathy treatements as far as practical.

3. The people who finds that their problem is incurable & high risk in allopathy or other systems & knows/heard something about homeopathy, also takes homeopathic treatments.

We discuss here as that homeopathy is not a part of science. It can also be a science if its all principals are proved in science language, which I am trying & all known persons should go on trying till (a) its science & logics are fully found, (b) till it ends in itself if a fruad.

Under above considerations, I again request you to just think about the technicalities of "static electricity' and 'PE' in this context & mention here any 'can be possibility' for the same.

Best Wishes to all.
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Old 29th October 2003, 09:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Thanks all for all types of posting except pretaining to the main question. Homeopathy works or not that can be checked by anyone easily by visiting the homeopath's clinics & taking vote/opinions from several patients who are continiously taking the treatments. I think the present status of homeopathic treatment is as under:-
So that's how it is proven that homeopathy works? Take a poll of homeopathy users? Somehow I don't think that's going to fly with FDA. The determination on whether homeopathy works is by conducting well-conducted and controlled, blinded clinical trials. When this is done, all that is found is no difference from placebo.

It is extremely easy to delude people into thinking taking a placebo will help them with minor problems that would self-resolve with no treatment at all. This is all that people are seeing with this fraudulent crapola.
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Old 29th October 2003, 09:54 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Thanks all for all types of posting except pretaining to the main question. Homeopathy works or not that can be checked by anyone easily by visiting the homeopath's clinics & taking vote/opinions from several patients who are continiously taking the treatments. I think the present status of homeopathic treatment is as under:-

1. The people who cares for the side & adverse effects of allopathy, takes homeopathic treatment for their day to day minor/regular problems.

2. The people who knows technicalities of homeopathy & allopathy both, takes homeopathy treatements as far as practical.

3. The people who finds that their problem is incurable & high risk in allopathy or other systems & knows/heard something about homeopathy, also takes homeopathic treatments.

We discuss here as that homeopathy is not a part of science. It can also be a science if its all principals are proved in science language, which I am trying & all known persons should go on trying till (a) its science & logics are fully found, (b) till it ends in itself if a fruad.

Under above considerations, I again request you to just think about the technicalities of "static electricity' and 'PE' in this context & mention here any 'can be possibility' for the same.

Best Wishes to all.
This is all anectdotal evidence only, and is NOT scientific proof of anything at all. It is just like using a witch-doctor, really.

So wondering about whether static electricity makes homeopathy work is a waste of time because it is clear to anyone who thinks clearly that homeopathy doesn't work in the first place.

Kumar, do you understand why scientists say that this is proof of nothing at all?

What is more, you have made a claim above that you, Kumar, can tell the difference between homeopathic solutions and distilled water under controlled scientific conditions. This means that your claim qualifies for application to JREF testing, which you agreed was correct. But so far we have not heard if you really will apply for the test or not.

I think you had better be warned that even leading scientists who thought that homeopathy was true have been tested by other scientists, and guess what! Complete failure to prove homeopathy true - look up Beneviste.

Anyway, let me ask you again: If you are so confident homeopathy works, are you, Kumar, going to apply for the JREF test at any time? Yes or no, please. If you do not answer this question then you are simply avoiding the issue, and we will know you don't really have as much faith in homeopathy as you thought.
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