ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags cancer

Closed Thread
Old 21st April 2015, 09:07 AM   #201
Daylightstar
Philosopher
 
Daylightstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: hic.
Posts: 8,035
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I do not calculate myself as rude to you. ...
That's not relevant, you see.
__________________
homeopathy homicidium
Daylightstar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 09:14 AM   #202
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,445
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
It is not nature vs unnature. It is unnatural disasters vs ageing.
Unnatural disasters have the same effect on aging as natural ones: if they kill you, you stop aging.
Porpoise of Life is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 10:21 AM   #203
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,478
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Ok, one sided. But what about those who are getting pollutions, global warming and nuclear radiation effects?
What has that to do with medicine?

Quote:
Whether "wipe us all out" and "Earth will recover" are not bit confusing?
Not at all. Earth exists fine without humans. It did that for 99.9% (or so) of its current age.

Quote:
Suppose if earth loose its balance, how it will impact the universe?
If a grain of sand looses its balance (whatever that means), how will it impact the beach?

Quote:
Ok, just chain reactions. Can 3rd world war, excessive global warming and pollutions cause chain reaction impacts at earth & unverse level?
For earth: There is no simple answer.
For the universe: No.

Kumar, earth is an unimportant dust-particle in the universe.
Humanity is a small bump on the history of earth.

Hans
__________________
If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 10:58 AM   #204
fuelair
Suspended
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55,698
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Sorry. However you have told only one sided angle of unnaturality. Moreover. I can not say how these beneficial looking unnaturalities will be absolute on final. many odds are still thought about modern interventions eg. antibiotic resistance. The other side of coin; Are you suggesting that pollutions, global warming, nuclear weapons etc. are also beneficial to us?
He probably is not, BUT he and I and many others are living longer because of what you call unnatural things , whatever eventually happens because of them, we are still alive due to some of them and I quite like that!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 11:07 AM   #205
fuelair
Suspended
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55,698
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Are you veering off towards Young Earth Creationism?




Nope. The "natural" age for a human being before all the interventions you object to were invented was significantly less than the "unnatural" age to which we can now expect to live.




This has nothing to do with the Wikipedia passage you quoted, which was about geological eras. And If you want anyone to take your little story about the doctor seriously you will probably need to link to an authoritative source that demonstrates that there is a body of respectable medical opinion that holds that we have a predetermined number of breaths.
Not to mention heartbeats.
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 11:34 AM   #206
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Not to mention heartbeats.

Heartbeats?
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 01:41 PM   #207
fuelair
Suspended
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 55,698
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Heartbeats?
Yes, several years ago in an article on human physiology one of the many (theoretical) factoids mentioned was the general number of times the heart could/would beat before giving out (not counting accidents and major heart diseases)
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 04:36 PM   #208
blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
 
blutoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,744
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Yes, several years ago in an article on human physiology one of the many (theoretical) factoids mentioned was the general number of times the heart could/would beat before giving out (not counting accidents and major heart diseases)
It's called Heartbeat hypothesisWP. It's literally Antique (I think Aristotle was an advocate - "slow down, slow down, you're using up your heartbeats.")
__________________
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett
blutoski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 06:05 PM   #209
fromdownunder
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,748
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I do not calculate myself as rude to you.
Rude is relative. Stop altering my quotes in your posts. That is what I was saying.

Quote:
You post or not post in this topic, is your liking but I shall wish, people here contribute. I hate half or one sided approach.
I asked relevant and quite specific questions as to what you think is natural or unnatural. This was to better my understanding as to where you are trying to come from.

You did not (or could not) answer them. That strikes me as you being the person who only wants one side to the discussion.

Quote:
You know, we can acquite many disorders due to odd environment & life style of modern times and which is another half sided consideration. These need to be treated by that which is responsible for acquiring these not nature. Still our natural defence mechanism does its best to save us. Bye.
Are you saying cancer and heart attacks did not exist in the pre-modern environment? I don't even know what are you trying too say here.

Here are two things that existed in the pre-modern environment Smallpox and Rinderpest. These two things, which were quite natural, killed millions of people up until they were completely eradicated by what you would consider unnatural means. Our best natural defensive mechanisms were useless - only modern ("unnatural" to you) medical techniques eradicated them, and this has saved many millions of lives.

Norm
__________________
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain



Last edited by fromdownunder; 21st April 2015 at 06:08 PM.
fromdownunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 07:54 PM   #210
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 21,499
Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Here are two things that existed in the pre-modern environment Smallpox and Rinderpest. These two things, which were quite natural, killed millions of people up until they were completely eradicated by what you would consider unnatural means. Our best natural defensive mechanisms were useless - only modern ("unnatural" to you) medical techniques eradicated them, and this has saved many millions of lives.
Careful with this. The existence of concentrated masses of people potentially susceptible to epidemic disease, and the sources from which these diseases originated - in both cases you cite, herds of domesticated animals - are themselves as "unnatural" as the advances that have in recent times enabled these epidemics to be vastly mitigated or eradicated.

That is, agriculture, animal husbandry and cities are all "unnatural", and natural human defensive mechanisms were incapable of coping with the diseases that arose in consequence of these cultural innovations.
Craig B is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 08:03 PM   #211
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
my bolding

Kumar, stop using this dishonest "Absolute & Final" dodge. You use it whenever you want to ignore evidence presented to you or you want to dodge a question. "Well, science hasn't come to an absolute and final answer, so my magical thinkiing is just as valid, la la la". if you cannot present scientific evidence to supoort your arguments then please start these threads in R&P and not in the science forum.
No I use it to give equal weightage on both sides.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 08:10 PM   #212
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post


Okay, I'm done here. Have a day, kumar.
Sorry, you misunderstood me. It is quite logical that when we compare both sides we need to consider pros and cons on both side. In this case, say one became sick due to exposed unnaturalities= 1/2 minus point, Got good treatment=1/2 plus, anticipated global unnaturalities impacts=1.oo minus. So overall, 1/2 minus, 1/2 Plus, 1 minus= 1.00 minus. This is equanimious calculation considering both or all sides. Bye.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 08:14 PM   #213
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
What has that to do with medicine?



Not at all. Earth exists fine without humans. It did that for 99.9% (or so) of its current age.



If a grain of sand looses its balance (whatever that means), how will it impact the beach?



For earth: There is no simple answer.
For the universe: No.

Kumar, earth is an unimportant dust-particle in the universe.
Humanity is a small bump on the history of earth.

Hans
Many thanks for good teachings. However, I need to better concentrate on as you said; "For earth: There is no simple answer."
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 08:23 PM   #214
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
He probably is not, BUT he and I and many others are living longer because of what you call unnatural things , whatever eventually happens because of them, we are still alive due to some of them and I quite like that!!!
We do not know :the ultimate". the other side is that nature has kept us existed for millions of years. I can not calculate the future.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 08:30 PM   #215
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Rude is relative. Stop altering my quotes in your posts. That is what I was saying.

I asked relevant and quite specific questions as to what you think is natural or unnatural. This was to better my understanding as to where you are trying to come from.

You did not (or could not) answer them. That strikes me as you being the person who only wants one side to the discussion.

Are you saying cancer and heart attacks did not exist in the pre-modern environment? I don't even know what are you trying too say here.

Here are two things that existed in the pre-modern environment Smallpox and Rinderpest. These two things, which were quite natural, killed millions of people up until they were completely eradicated by what you would consider unnatural means. Our best natural defensive mechanisms were useless - only modern ("unnatural" to you) medical techniques eradicated them, and this has saved many millions of lives.

Norm
Quote is just for referance. Usually big post's initial lines are quoted which serve purpose of both referance and avoiding overload on forum's computer.

Yes, modern medical unnatural interventions and introductions are treating. But for true calculate read my earlier post where I have indicated, nett outcome is minus one out of two.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 09:58 PM   #216
Lukraak_Sisser
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,005
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No I use it to give equal weightage on both sides.
Yes, but whatever makes you think that both sides should have equal weight?

The antique medications had virtually no measurable postive effects on human lifespan or combating diseases.
Modern medicine does, and is getting improved all the time.
Why should we give equal weight to something proven useless compared to something effective?

Besides, you STILL have not given a clear definition of what is unnatural according to you.
You made your dislike for anything using post-steam power clear, but what about plows? Wheeled carts? Spinning and weaving? Metal tools? Agriculture in general? Stone tools?
Where do you draw the line?
Lukraak_Sisser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 11:18 PM   #217
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yes, but whatever makes you think that both sides should have equal weight?

The antique medications had virtually no measurable postive effects on human lifespan or combating diseases.
Modern medicine does, and is getting improved all the time.
Why should we give equal weight to something proven useless compared to something effective?

Besides, you STILL have not given a clear definition of what is unnatural according to you.
You made your dislike for anything using post-steam power clear, but what about plows? Wheeled carts? Spinning and weaving? Metal tools? Agriculture in general? Stone tools?
Where do you draw the line?
Actually, in my sense, I gave more weghtage to 1/2 positive. even older medicines can not be called as natural. Unatural: to which no inharent sense of right and wrong is there. Or which is abnormal in quantity or quality. Which we can not process with pre-informed sense etc.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 11:37 PM   #218
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,375
How can an inanimate object or process have a sense of right and wrong?
__________________
Read my fantasy novel for free!
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 11:40 PM   #219
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,262
Sorry - late for the party.

Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
OK. Homoeopathy doesn't work.
Nomed! Truth at 0C!
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 11:45 PM   #220
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,262
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
This is quite possible based on past communications, not to mention I await with baited breath finding out how to win an entrophy - and what you win it for.
You just won .... lifetime access to The Free Dictionary.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st April 2015, 11:56 PM   #221
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,262
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Suppose if earth loose its balance, how it will impact the universe?

Ok, just chain reactions. Can 3rd world war, excessive global warming and pollutions cause chain reaction impacts at earth & unverse level?
Let's be clear, Kumar. Nothing that happens on or to Earth will affect the universe. Ya, hear? NOTHING. If the Earth/Moon system blew up tomorrow, the solar system would be perturbed a bet but that's it. The rest of the universe wouldn't notice, wouldn't and wouldn't change in the slightest.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 12:17 AM   #222
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,922
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
We do not know :the ultimate". the other side is that nature has kept us existed for millions of years. I can not calculate the future.
Nature has failed to keep over 99% of species existing. It's entirely possible that without our "unnatural" inventions like agriculture, spears and medicine our species would also be extinct. Many closely related species (eg Neanderthals) are.

No-one can calculate the future. We may end up wiping ourselves out, or we may use "unnatural" inventions to prevent ourselves being wiped out (eg by using technology to divert an asteroid that would otherwise have collided with the earth). All we can say with certainty is that, so far at least, our "unnatural" inventions have greatly increased average life expectancy.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 12:30 AM   #223
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Sorry, you misunderstood me. It is quite logical that when we compare both sides we need to consider pros and cons on both side. In this case, say one became sick due to exposed unnaturalities= 1/2 minus point, Got good treatment=1/2 plus, anticipated global unnaturalities impacts=1.oo minus. So overall, 1/2 minus, 1/2 Plus, 1 minus= 1.00 minus. This is equanimious calculation considering both or all sides.

And yet the result of "both or all sides" is that people live longer. Your "anticipated global unnaturalities" have not had the impact you claim, and you have clearly wrongly estimated the values for you "minus" and "plus" points, since the "plus" is clearly outweighing the "minus".
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 12:33 AM   #224
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I can not calculate the future.

Then how did you arrive at a value of "1.oo minus" for your "anticipated global unnaturalities impacts"?
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 01:05 AM   #225
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,478
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Many thanks for good teachings. However, I need to better concentrate on as you said; "For earth: There is no simple answer."
Then you must ask simpler questions. You lumped several different effects into one question, and asked about chain reactions.

For instance, nuclear weapons will not cause chain reactions outside themselves. They will leave radioactivity, however, and if enough of them are set off, they will impact the climate.

Hans
__________________
If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 01:09 AM   #226
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,478
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
We do not know :the ultimate". the other side is that nature has kept us existed for millions of years. I can not calculate the future.
Actually no. First of all, nature has kneaded us and changed us, killed us and supported us for millions, or more precisely for about 1.5 million years.
Nature really doesn't give a damn, you know...

In a way, you could say that we are here in spite of nature.

Hans
__________________
If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 01:10 AM   #227
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,478
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Actually, in my sense, I gave more weghtage to 1/2 positive. even older medicines can not be called as natural. Unatural: to which no inharent sense of right and wrong is there. Or which is abnormal in quantity or quality. Which we can not process with pre-informed sense etc.
Kumar, the sense of right and wrong is an essential part of being human. If you consider that unnatural, then humans are unnatural.

Hans
__________________
If you love life, you must accept the traces it leaves.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 01:55 AM   #228
Daylightstar
Philosopher
 
Daylightstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: hic.
Posts: 8,035
Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yes, but ...
It's not yes, it's not at all.
__________________
homeopathy homicidium
Daylightstar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 02:04 AM   #229
Daylightstar
Philosopher
 
Daylightstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: hic.
Posts: 8,035
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No I use it to give equal weightage on both sides.
Not at all. You attempt to take away the weight of that which humanity has learned and can accomplish, while at the same time failing to give weight to your own extremely nonspecific nebulous notions.
__________________
homeopathy homicidium

Last edited by Daylightstar; 22nd April 2015 at 02:47 AM. Reason: "non" placed correctly.
Daylightstar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 02:23 AM   #230
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Kumar, the sense of right and wrong is an essential part of being human. If you consider that unnatural, then humans are unnatural.

It's more to do with an attempt by Kumar to redefine things he approves of (i.e. that have "inharent sense of right and wrong") as "natural" rather than whether or not they are actually natural. I'm sure he regards serial dilution with succussion as having an "inharent sense of right and wrong", for example.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:08 AM   #231
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Let's be clear, Kumar. Nothing that happens on or to Earth will affect the universe. Ya, hear? NOTHING. If the Earth/Moon system blew up tomorrow, the solar system would be perturbed a bet but that's it. The rest of the universe wouldn't notice, wouldn't and wouldn't change in the slightest.
Ok thanks. I am now limiting to earth.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:11 AM   #232
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Nature has failed to keep over 99% of species existing. It's entirely possible that without our "unnatural" inventions like agriculture, spears and medicine our species would also be extinct. Many closely related species (eg Neanderthals) are.

No-one can calculate the future. We may end up wiping ourselves out, or we may use "unnatural" inventions to prevent ourselves being wiped out (eg by using technology to divert an asteroid that would otherwise have collided with the earth). All we can say with certainty is that, so far at least, our "unnatural" inventions have greatly increased average life expectancy.
Ok thanks. Noted, as per you unnatural prevails over natural. Ok?
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:13 AM   #233
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
And yet the result of "both or all sides" is that people live longer. Your "anticipated global unnaturalities" have not had the impact you claim, and you have clearly wrongly estimated the values for you "minus" and "plus" points, since the "plus" is clearly outweighing the "minus".
To discuss with you, for the time being discuss the other side of unnaturalities. If it is nothing, you may avoid.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:15 AM   #234
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Noted, as per you unnatural prevails over natural. Ok?

Pixel42's post doesn't say that.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:16 AM   #235
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
To discuss with you, for the time being discuss the other side of unnaturalities.

Which "side" do you mean by "the other side"? I was talking about the results of both.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:18 AM   #236
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Kumar, the sense of right and wrong is an essential part of being human. If you consider that unnatural, then humans are unnatural.

Hans
How, if we do not have an inharent sense of right and wrong to a new non-living introduction, that introduction can not have sense but we can have.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:19 AM   #237
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Actually no. First of all, nature has kneaded us and changed us, killed us and supported us for millions, or more precisely for about 1.5 million years.
Nature really doesn't give a damn, you know...

In a way, you could say that we are here in spite of nature.

Hans
Ok, means we kept us existed ourselves not the nature has evolved us.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:27 AM   #238
Kumar
Guest
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Then you must ask simpler questions. You lumped several different effects into one question, and asked about chain reactions.

For instance, nuclear weapons will not cause chain reactions outside themselves. They will leave radioactivity, however, and if enough of them are set off, they will impact the climate.

Hans
Ok thanks. Mine is language and term problem may not be sense problem.

Let me finally ask:

Can modern introductions, which can be harmful to us, decrease age of live beings and of non living things on earth? One by direct damage other is chain reactions or cascading effects.

I am not asking about beneficial modern introductions.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:53 AM   #239
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,972
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Can modern introductions, which can be harmful to us, decrease age of live beings and of non living things on earth? One by direct damage other is chain reactions or cascading effects.

I am not asking about beneficial modern introductions.
I believe there was a documentary about a certain Benjamin Button and his decreasing age.
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 22nd April 2015, 03:53 AM   #240
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Can modern introductions, which can be harmful to us, decrease age of live beings and of non living things on earth?

No. Time only goes in one direction, and the age of things can only increase.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:23 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.