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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old 12th October 2017, 09:41 AM   #3241
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Well Forster resonance energy transfer by definition 'requires' an acceptor chromophore in the near field doesn't it.
So WTF are you claiming now? That there is some magic that the energy transfer for hydrino formation can only happen via FRET?

Originally Posted by markie View Post
In the case of hydrino formation the acceptor is termed a catalyst. If you have trouble with the terminology that's no big deal.
Changing the terminology is just you setting up another round of Whack-A-Lie.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:46 AM   #3242
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Increase the temperature in a biological process? That would wreak havoc in a biological system.

Irellevant.
You claimed the reaction would ONLY proceed with a catalyst. And as with all your other chemistry (like your claim hot silver cannot react with hot water), you are wrong. I notice this a lot. You use reaction conditions and energies in one state to 'prove' something in a totally different state. Are you aware of the fact that reactions are influenced by pressure and temperature and thus cannot be compared with reactions at a different pressure and temperature?

Originally Posted by markie View Post
I take it you didn't look up disproportionation reaction.

Why would I, I am not the one claiming three identical particles will undergo a reaction with 0 energy transfer.


Originally Posted by markie View Post
It's nothing new that hydrinos are ionized by collision of sufficient energy. It's been said several times in this thread.
And yes there are a number of features about the sun that do not have a ready explanation.
So, hydrinos cannot be dark matter then. Good to know.
And if the hydrino 'theory' would be right it would not be minor discrepancies, the sun, the gas giants and water on earth all would not exist.
You know, the whole increased temperature, pressure, time thing. The bit you keep trying to gloss over.
Like the fact that only labs that get money from Mills ever claim to see anything like his results and never any actual hydrino samples.
Or the fact that Mills has been lying about his 'nearly ready' products for the past 30 years.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:38 AM   #3243
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Ah, yes! XKCD always has something relevant to add to any discussion.
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Old 12th October 2017, 01:41 PM   #3244
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Also I have little doubt that certain outspoken and prominent members of the ACS like Dr. Bob Park did their thing to minimize the potential impact of such a presentation.
Why in the world would they do that? I can see them trying to prevent the presentation because they thought it would be a waste of time better spent on something else, but if the presentation was made, why try to reduce its impact?

Originally Posted by markie View Post
You just don't like the uncertainty of not knowing for sure if a party was not able to verify and that their negative result not permitted to be made public.
Yeah, I think that's going to be a sticking point for a lot of people, including me. Especially since:

1) their patents already protect their IP, so why do they need an IP agreement on top of that?

and

2) BLP/Mills could have easily cleared up these issues by saying what the IP agreements entail.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
So, hydrinos cannot be dark matter then. Good to know.
To be fair to Mills, he's merely mis-using/redefining "dark matter", not making contradictory statements. When he says "dark matter" he means "matter which only emits or absorbs photons when its rotational or vibrational energy changes".
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:01 PM   #3245
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
The presentation to the ACS took place,....
No source makes that assertion doubtful but the pertinent point is Mills promised in 1999
Quote:
BlackLight Power will present about 10 compounds to the American Chemical Society and "five papers that give explicit details and is absolutely reproducible," Dr. Mills said. "I have a unified field theory that's absolutely testable at every stage and on every item."
The last is definitely a lie since Mills does not have a unified field theory, even 18 years later in in 2017. The "10 compounds" looks to be lie so far. The "absolutely reproducible" claim is a fantasy and we have to wonder about "five papers"!

ETA: This quote is from a newswire story that is mostly a press release, not a credible source (Researcher Claims Power Tech That Defies Quantum Theory).

Mills essentially admits that he lied in Cold fusion died 25 years ago, but the research lives on. This 2016 article has a Mills lie
Quote:
Mills also says hydrinos are created from burning hydrogen in stars such as our sun and are evident in the spectral lines of starlight.
Mills has never produced a match to solar spectral lines - remember that your latest delusion from Mills seems to be that hydrinos do not produce spectral lines !

ETA: Your Wilk is an outsider post is a bit hypocritical - you are also an a outsider! - and a bit insulting.
Wilk has been looking at BLP closely:
Quote:
With extra time on his hands, Wilk has been tracking the progress of a New Jersey-based company called Brilliant Light Power (BLP).
...
Wilk has studied Mills’s theory, read Mills’s papers and patents, and carried out his own calculations on the hydrino. Wilk has gone so far as to attend a demonstration at BLP’s facility in Cranbury, N.J., where he discussed the hydrino with Mills. After all that, Wilk says he still can’t tell if Mills is a titanic genius, is self-delusional, or is something in between
Wilk not going through every experiment that BLP has done over almost 3 decades does not mean that he does not know about them.

A fantasy of "the boiling point of dihydrino gas as I recall" does not help because Mills said that is wrong
Quote:
In 2014, Wilk asked Mills if he had ever isolated hydrinos, and although Mills had previously written in research papers and patents that he had, Mills replied that he hadn’t and that it would be “a really, really huge task.” But Wilk doesn’t see it that way. If the process generates liters of hydrino gas as he has calculated, it should be obvious. “Show us the hydrino!” Wilk pleads.
That makes the "10 compounds" in 1999 a lie!

Last edited by Reality Check; 12th October 2017 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:12 PM   #3246
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Indeed,
In 2014 Mills admits to lying in 1999 about isolating and collecting hydrinos. That is a colossal blunder, to state that he had 'em and would be providing samples for testing. A blunder for a scientist. An equally bad blunder for a conman. He can't walk that one back. It wasn't just some misstatement borne of an honest misapprehension. It was a deliberate, considered, outright LIE. That one humdinger all by itself sinks into oblivion whatever 'reputation' he might have had prior.

Why are you still chasing hydrinos, Markie?
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:53 PM   #3247
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
Why in the world would they do that? I can see them trying to prevent the presentation because they thought it would be a waste of time better spent on something else, but if the presentation was made, why try to reduce its impact?
Perhaps guys like Park did try to prevent the presentation, who knows. After all it was likely Park and/or Peter Zimmerman who exerted influence over the patent office and had a granted, paid patent of BLP revoked. Quite unprecedented. (The patent examiner who granted the patent resigned in protest.)
Park has had it out for Mills for years ; I have little doubt that he doubled his efforts around events like ACS meetings.

Quote:
Yeah, I think that's going to be a sticking point for a lot of people, including me. Especially since:

1) their patents already protect their IP, so why do they need an IP agreement on top of that?

and

2) BLP/Mills could have easily cleared up these issues by saying what the IP agreements entail.
1) Patents are just one aspect of IP protection.

2) Cleared up the issues for whom. I suspect in these matters he only wants to be clear with the entities he is doing business with.

Quote:
To be fair to Mills, he's merely mis-using/redefining "dark matter", not making contradictory statements. When he says "dark matter" he means "matter which only emits or absorbs photons when its rotational or vibrational energy changes".
Essentially yes.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:58 PM   #3248
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Indeed,
In 2014 Mills admits to lying in 1999 about isolating and collecting hydrinos. That is a colossal blunder, to state that he had 'em and would be providing samples for testing. A blunder for a scientist. An equally bad blunder for a conman. He can't walk that one back. It wasn't just some misstatement borne of an honest misapprehension. It was a deliberate, considered, outright LIE. That one humdinger all by itself sinks into oblivion whatever 'reputation' he might have had prior.

Why are you still chasing hydrinos, Markie?

And what are you smoking? Mills has isolated hydrino in the past, just not in the bulk quantities as a free gas that Wilk was hoping for. And yes Mills has sent samples out for testing.
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:04 PM   #3249
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
He's probably still got shelves and shelves of hydrino hydride compounds from over the years. I'm not sure how long dihydrino gas can remained trapped in a materials matrix. Long enough to measure in short order anyway.
Does anybody live anywhere near Mills' Hydrino Factory so that they could knock on the door and ask for some "hydrino hydride compounds" in a bottle? Might be fun.

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Old 12th October 2017, 08:05 PM   #3250
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Perhaps guys like Park did try to prevent the presentation, who knows. After all it was likely Park and/or Peter Zimmerman who exerted influence over the patent office and had a granted, paid patent of BLP revoked. Quite unprecedented. (The patent examiner who granted the patent resigned in protest.)
Park has had it out for Mills for years ; I have little doubt that he doubled his efforts around events like ACS meetings.



1) Patents are just one aspect of IP protection.

2) Cleared up the issues for whom. I suspect in these matters he only wants to be clear with the entities he is doing business with.



Essentially yes.
Speculation combined with unevidenced assertion, plus a well poisoning just in case.

Tell me again what your pecuniary interest in BLP is.
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:15 PM   #3251
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
And what are you smoking? Mills has isolated hydrino in the past, just not in the bulk quantities as a free gas that Wilk was hoping for. And yes Mills has sent samples out for testing.
Never once. That is a bald face lie. Never once has a hydrino ever been seen or collected by anyone, including Mills. His crystals of so called hydrino compounds were not hydrinos. Once Mills found out, all other so called hydrinos disappeared as if by magic.

There is no such thing as a hydrino. Anyone claiming to have seen touched collected or any other reaction with a hydrino is telling you a bold faced lie. None of your so called confirmations you posted here had any evidence at all of hydrinos. NOT ONE. I even offered to eat my hat if a hydrino was ever detected by anyone anytime in a way that could be shown. All I can say is my hat is safe.

Full Stop

Remember when you make up a fantasy particle out of the clear blue sky, one of two things must happen or have happened.

1) some evidence it exists and the particle is your best explanation.
2) a rigorous mathematical model it could/should exist and you go looking for that evidence.

Mills has neither. Therefore hydrinos do not exist.
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:32 PM   #3252
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
1) Patents are just one aspect of IP protection.
IP covers copyright, trademark, patents, and trade secrets. Copyrights don't apply in this situation. Although BLP has a trademark on "hydrino", use of that word in an academic paper would be covered by nominative fair use, and even if fair use didn't apply anyone writing about hydrinos could coin their own name for it. When it comes to patents, if someone tries to duplicate what's covered by a BLP patent then BLP isn't required to sue to keep their patent protection; it's not a "use it or lose it" situation like trademarks. If someone tries to duplicate what's covered by a BLP patent and independently rediscover a BLP trade secret in the process, then that trade secret can't be used without also using the patent, so BLP is still protected by their patent. If a device/process patented by BLP can't work without a trade secret, so others need to get the trade secret from BLP to successfully reproduce what BLP patented, then the patent was incomplete and invalid.

Maybe BLP wants to protect their reputation, and since BLP/Mills claims it's really difficult to get the hydrino creating reaction right they don't want a lot of people to try to reproduce it and fail, thus making it seem like hydrino production doesn't work; however, that isn't an IP issue. (An aside: if the patents are imprecise enough that getting the hydrino creating reaction right usually requires help from BLP, are the patents actually detailed enough to be valid?)

Quote:
2) Cleared up the issues for whom. I suspect in these matters he only wants to be clear with the entities he is doing business with.
Well, Mills did want to submit his hydrino samples to the Society, so presumably he wanted the existence of below-ground-state hydrogen to be recognized by the general community of chemists and physicists? Or did he need the Society to analyze those samples in order to draw in new investors and partners (or to satisfy existing ones), a need that is now fulfilled by the various validations that have been done, and he never did care about what the scientists thought?
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:51 PM   #3253
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Thumbs down markie: A lie that Mills has isolated hydrinos at all including as a "free gas"

Originally Posted by markie View Post
Mills has isolated hydrino in the past, just not in the bulk quantities as a free gas that Wilk was hoping for.
13 October 2017 markie: A lie that Mills has isolated hydrinos at all including as a "free gas".

As you know, Mills stated in 2014 that he has ever isolated hydrinos. Cold fusion died 25 years ago, but the research lives on
Quote:
In 2014, Wilk asked Mills if he had ever isolated hydrinos, and although Mills had previously written in research papers and patents that he had, Mills replied that he hadn’t and that it would be “a really, really huge task.” But Wilk doesn’t see it that way. If the process generates liters of hydrino gas as he has calculated, it should be obvious. “Show us the hydrino!” Wilk pleads.
The "he" is Wilk applying Mills' theory to find that Mills' process would "generates liters of hydrino gas". Even common sense would tell you that this should happen. Mills' imaginary reactions turn hydrogen gas into hydrino gas and his past failures using hydrogen must have generated a hydrogen + hydrino gas mixture. There are entire industries based on separating different gasses!

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Old 12th October 2017, 08:59 PM   #3254
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
No source makes that assertion doubtful but the pertinent point is Mills promised in 1999

The last is definitely a lie since Mills does not have a unified field theory, even 18 years later in in 2017. The "10 compounds" looks to be lie so far. The "absolutely reproducible" claim is a fantasy and we have to wonder about "five papers"!
Take a look at the patents, for instance
https://www.google.com/patents/US6024935

Lots of different hydrino compounds.

Quote:
ETA: This quote is from a newswire story that is mostly a press release, not a credible source (Researcher Claims Power Tech That Defies Quantum Theory).

Mills essentially admits that he lied in Cold fusion died 25 years ago, but the research lives on. This 2016 article has a Mills lie

Mills has never produced a match to solar spectral lines - remember that your latest delusion from Mills seems to be that hydrinos do not produce spectral lines !
Mills would have said solar spectrum, not solar spectral lines. He would have been referring to the solar surface UV continuum with wavelength lower the shortest Lyman line. See around page 50, figure 23, where it shows Skylabs eUV spectra of the sun.
http://www.brilliantlightpower.com/w...ism-051817.pdf


Quote:
ETA: Your Wilk is an outsider post is a bit hypocritical - you are also an a outsider! - and a bit insulting.
Wilk has been looking at BLP closely:

Wilk not going through every experiment that BLP has done over almost 3 decades does not mean that he does not know about them.

A fantasy of "the boiling point of dihydrino gas as I recall" does not help because Mills said that is wrong

That makes the "10 compounds" in 1999 a lie!
Again, not a lie. There are lots of different hydrino compounds.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:21 PM   #3255
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Thumbs down markie: A fantasy that Mills' patents, etc. means that he fulfilled his promises

Originally Posted by markie View Post
Take a look at the patents, for instance
13 October 2017 markie: A fantasy that Mills' patents, etc. means that he fulfilled his promises to the ASC.

13 October 2017 markie: Ignorance about patents which can contain absurd claims.
A patent is not credible evidence that an inventor has created anything (think perpetual motion machines!).
Credible science includes a valid theory, distinctive measurements (e.g. a spectrum that cannot be duplicated by something else) and independent replication.
The commercial world wants actual working devices.

And
13 October 2017 markie: A lie that Mills has isolated hydrinos at all including as a "free gas".
has a tiny hint that Mills might even deny his delusions of compounds in patents and papers - but I doubt it.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:27 PM   #3256
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Again, not a lie. There are lots of different hydrino compounds.
Mills' lied in patents and papers that he isolated hydrinos. That makes it probable that his compounds are also lies and so the "10 compounds promised to the ACS" was a lie.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:36 PM   #3257
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What is the name and description of one of the hydrino compounds or crystals?

Surely after around 20 years we can at least have a name/description or possibly a photo?

A photo of a hydrino crystal must surely exist...?
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:40 PM   #3258
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
On the contrary, producing hydrinos is not easy. One thing wrong in the experimental setup at the results are not replicable. But nail the setup and you're sailing. I recall a point Dr Jonathan Phillips made some years ago regarding a lab that tried to replicate hydrino production and were unable to. Phillips said of course they didn't get results, because of x,y and z, aspects that BLP is very familiar with.
So, was this lab trying to follow the steps stated in the patent? If so, by leaving out the x, y and z the patent didn't disclose enough and the patent was invalid. On the other hand, if the lab was following instructions directly from BLP, why did BLP forget to include those steps?
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:17 AM   #3259
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Again, not a lie. There are lots of different hydrino compounds.
Name one. Describe it. What is its melting point, its gaseous point, its chemical properties, it's color. Malleability? Does it burn in the presence of oxygen? If it burns in the presence of oxygen, does the hydrino collect the oxygen to produce a sort of hydrino water h2O instead of H2O? What is the ignition temp at STP? Does it dissolve in water? acid or base? Is it an insulator or a conductor? a super conductor? Anything at all? Has Mills even published chemical equations for these crystals? I haven't even seen that!

oops you got nothing. That's because not one single time has anyone seen any damn hydrino crystals ever period. All that happened was Mills said look I got these hydrino crystals, then never produced a damn single solitary hydrino. Now he is backtracking and saying that he can't even release the hydrinos from the so called hydrino crystals because...well..he never says why, just that it would be a herculean task nearly impossible. Again even that Conrad guy said of Mills work, (paraphrased) " interesting but someone's got to get that crystal to a real chemist, I am a physicist and can't confirm it."

Not one single solitary hydrino either free or in a chemical compound.

NOT ONE

Full Stop

And if he produces one in my lifetime I will eat my hat and publicly apologize.
My hat is safe
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Old 13th October 2017, 05:24 AM   #3260
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
(An aside: if the patents are imprecise enough that getting the hydrino creating reaction right usually requires help from BLP, are the patents actually detailed enough to be valid?)

No, they are not. Pretty much every jurisdiciton has some variation on the "enablement" requirement. The US in particular has more stringent rules than most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufficiency_of_disclosure

Quote:
Under the patent law in the United States, the patent specification must be complete enough so that a person of "ordinary skill in the art" of the invention can make and use the invention without “undue experimentation". There is no precise definition of "undue experimentation". The standard is determined based on the art of the invention.
Quote:
In the United States, the sufficiency of disclosure requirement is complemented by an additional requirement, generally not found in other national patent jurisdictions: the "best mode requirement". According to the requirement, the disclosure must also contain the inventor's "best mode" of making or practicing the invention. For example, if an inventor knows that a liquid should be heated to 250 degrees for optimal performance, but discloses in the patent that the liquid should be heated to "above 200 degrees", then the inventor has not disclosed his "best mode" for carrying out the invention. The best mode must be disclosed for the entire invention, and not only its innovative aspects.[3]

The purpose of the “best mode” requirement is to ensure full disclosure, such that the inventor may not “disclose only what he knows to be his second-best embodiment, retaining the best for himself.”[4]

The "best mode requirement" only applies to what the inventor knows or could have known at the time the application was filed, not as to what was subsequently discovered.

If an apparatus or method can only function as described with the input or assistance of the original inventor, then it's pretty clear that they haven't provided a sufficient disclosure.
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Old 13th October 2017, 07:49 AM   #3261
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
What is the name and description of one of the hydrino compounds or crystals?

Surely after around 20 years we can at least have a name/description or possibly a photo?

A photo of a hydrino crystal must surely exist...?
I've seen several photos in the past but can't locate any right now.

There are descriptions of the crystals published in the International Journal of Hydrogen Chemistry. One such paper from 2001 can be found here:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cad...a6d815ddcb.pdf

Title is Identification of compounds containing novel hydride ions by nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy

Here's a quote from that which describes one particular crystal:

In the present study, the NMR was obtained on blue crystal, light green crystals, and dark green crystals which formed with a reaction time of progressively longer duration.

The paper also includes descriptions of various other crystals and the numerous labs they were sent to for analysis.
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Old 13th October 2017, 07:55 AM   #3262
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
To be fair to Mills, he's merely mis-using/redefining "dark matter", not making contradictory statements. When he says "dark matter" he means "matter which only emits or absorbs photons when its rotational or vibrational energy changes".

Originally Posted by markie View Post
Essentially yes.
Explicitly No...


Originally Posted by markie View Post

2) Mills has discrete electron energies levels, but the energy released transitioning to a hydrino state is often not in the form of one single photon but a plurality of photons having a variety of energies that together would sum to the energy of the transition. The result: there is no one discrete line but rather a continuum of discrete lines (with a certain distribution) with the highest energy, cutoff line corresponding to a the release of a single photon.
as you assert above "energy released transitioning to a hydrino state". Again by all means please let us know when you can at least agree with just yourself.
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Old 13th October 2017, 08:08 AM   #3263
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Explicitly No...

as you assert above "energy released transitioning to a hydrino state". Again by all means please let us know when you can at least agree with just yourself.
There's a difference between the signature of the process of hydrino formation and the signature of the resultant hydrino itself.
The former involves continuum radiation in the UV, eUV and soft X-ray depending on the particular end state of the hydrino.
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Old 13th October 2017, 08:19 AM   #3264
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
I've seen several photos in the past but can't locate any right now.

There are descriptions of the crystals published in the International Journal of Hydrogen Chemistry. One such paper from 2001 can be found here:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cad...a6d815ddcb.pdf

Title is Identification of compounds containing novel hydride ions by nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy

Here's a quote from that which describes one particular crystal:

In the present study, the NMR was obtained on blue crystal, light green crystals, and dark green crystals which formed with a reaction time of progressively longer duration.

The paper also includes descriptions of various other crystals and the numerous labs they were sent to for analysis.
That's quite a paper. It talks about "predicts" a lot.

I don't think it identifies anything, though.

I do like the list of reference materials.
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:27 AM   #3265
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
That's quite a paper. It talks about "predicts" a lot.

I don't think it identifies anything, though.

I do like the list of reference materials.

Well a good theory has specific predictions which are then observed.

The particular paper uses NMR spectroscopy on various hydrino hydrides. But there are other papers which zero in on particular hydrino hydrides and characterize them much more fully.

Notice that two of the references show that Mills presented at two ACS meetings in 2000.

29. R. Mills, J. He, and B. Dhandapani, "Novel Alkali and Alkaline Earth Hydrides", 219 th National ACS Meeting, San Francisco, California, (March 26-30, 2000).

30. R. Mills, J. He, and B. Dhandapani, "Novel Alkali and Alkaline Earth Hydrides", August National ACS Meeting (220 th ACS National Meeting, Washington, DC, (August 20-24, 2000)).
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:34 AM   #3266
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Well a good theory has specific predictions which are then observed.

The particular paper uses NMR spectroscopy on various hydrino hydrides. But there are other papers which zero in on particular hydrino hydrides and characterize them much more fully.

Notice that two of the references show that Mills presented at two ACS meetings in 2000.

29. R. Mills, J. He, and B. Dhandapani, "Novel Alkali and Alkaline Earth Hydrides", 219 th National ACS Meeting, San Francisco, California, (March 26-30, 2000).

30. R. Mills, J. He, and B. Dhandapani, "Novel Alkali and Alkaline Earth Hydrides", August National ACS Meeting (220 th ACS National Meeting, Washington, DC, (August 20-24, 2000)).
Presented what at the meetings?

I doubt it was any compounds or crystals, and if that's the case, then who cares?
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:40 AM   #3267
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Well a good theory has specific predictions which are then observed.

The particular paper uses NMR spectroscopy on various hydrino hydrides. But there are other papers which zero in on particular hydrino hydrides and characterize them much more fully.

Notice that two of the references show that Mills presented at two ACS meetings in 2000.

29. R. Mills, J. He, and B. Dhandapani, "Novel Alkali and Alkaline Earth Hydrides", 219 th National ACS Meeting, San Francisco, California, (March 26-30, 2000).

30. R. Mills, J. He, and B. Dhandapani, "Novel Alkali and Alkaline Earth Hydrides", August National ACS Meeting (220 th ACS National Meeting, Washington, DC, (August 20-24, 2000)).
So he lied to the ACS. Why are you helping him spread these lies?
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:55 AM   #3268
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At the he end of the '90 Mills claims to have isolated hydrinos and/or hydrinos compounds. Produces pictures of pretty, coloured crystals.

In 2000 he presents at some meetings. Claims to have labs analyze samples.

If such novel compounds were real, that would have exploded onto the *scientific* scene like a demonstration of a nuclear blast. It could not possibly be suppressed, no matter how badly someone might have it in for Mills. But instead utter silence.

Then in 2014 Mills admits to not having created a hydrino. Intervening silence in the scientific community explained.

Why are we still discussing this? Because the con lives on.
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Old 14th October 2017, 04:44 AM   #3269
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
AIf such novel compounds were real, that would have exploded onto the *scientific* scene like a demonstration of a nuclear blast. It could not possibly be suppressed, no matter how badly someone might have it in for Mills. But instead utter silence.
Well, according to Markie, since it wasn't their discovery, they're not going to make a fuss about it. After all, their plates are full, leaving them no time to make noise about a discovery by someone else.
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Old 14th October 2017, 05:54 AM   #3270
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
Well, according to Markie, since it wasn't their discovery, they're not going to make a fuss about it. After all, their plates are full, leaving them no time to make noise about a discovery by someone else.
Mills is the one who fully understands the anomaly, not the labs doing the tests. They're just doing tests. They'll mention it casually, but they by no means have the authority to, say, publish the results. Mills does that. Also, labs have a reputation to maintain and a pecking order to follow. As quoted before from https://www.villagevoice.com/1999/12/21/quantum-leap/

Researchers at other well-known government labs also say they are afraid to speak on record about their interest in Mills’s work. One said that he plans to visit BlackLight Power on his vacation time. Jacox says his team found in the materials “an anomaly that we could not explain with conventional theory but that we could explain with Randy Mills’s theory. That does not necessarily validate the Mills theory, but gosh.”
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Old 14th October 2017, 05:57 AM   #3271
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Then in 2014 Mills admits to not having created a hydrino.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12

Last edited by Agatha; 15th October 2017 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 14th October 2017, 07:07 AM   #3272
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Mills is the one who fully understands the anomaly, not the labs doing the tests. They're just doing tests.
I was referring to the compounds (allegedly) submitted to the Society, not the testing labs.
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Old 14th October 2017, 07:11 AM   #3273
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Removed moderated content
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Mr Mills, uh, I mean Markie, do you have any evidence for the existence of hydrinos besides anecdotes?

Last edited by Agatha; 15th October 2017 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 14th October 2017, 07:41 AM   #3274
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Was Jacox the guy that someone from this thread contacted who basically said that he had little memory of testing Mills' stuff, but that it wasn't unusual for people to do what Mills did, which was essentially hiring their equipment and staff to run it? It was certainly someone quoted in an article like the one markie just posted.
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Old 14th October 2017, 07:41 AM   #3275
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
There's a difference between the signature of the process of hydrino formation and the signature of the resultant hydrino itself.
The former involves continuum radiation in the UV, eUV and soft X-ray depending on the particular end state of the hydrino.
There is also a difference between a transition being radiationless and that transition emitting, well, radiation. You have specifically asserted both. Again by all means please, let us know when you can at least agree with just yourself.
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Old 14th October 2017, 12:34 PM   #3276
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Removed moderated content
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See post #3223 (about 2/3 down on p.81).

Last edited by Agatha; 15th October 2017 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 14th October 2017, 02:58 PM   #3277
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
There is also a difference between a transition being radiationless and that transition emitting, well, radiation. You have specifically asserted both. Again by all means please, let us know when you can at least agree with just yourself.


I’m sure he’ll be able to agree with himself once Mills releases a working generator or heater he can use as a defense device.
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Old 14th October 2017, 03:40 PM   #3278
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
I've seen several photos in the past but can't locate any right now.

There are descriptions of the crystals published in the International Journal of Hydrogen Chemistry. One such paper from 2001 can be found here:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cad...a6d815ddcb.pdf

Title is Identification of compounds containing novel hydride ions by nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy

Here's a quote from that which describes one particular crystal:

In the present study, the NMR was obtained on blue crystal, light green crystals, and dark green crystals which formed with a reaction time of progressively longer duration.

The paper also includes descriptions of various other crystals and the numerous labs they were sent to for analysis.
That is a splendid paper. Nicely detailed explanation of apparatus and means of synthesis. It's the sort of paper any journal would like to publish. After all, it provides everything a researcher would need to replicate/falsify the results.

Oh. Wait a minute. This is RANDELL MILLS we're talking about. The guy who refuses to allow any independent verification of his work. So all of the experimental section is meaningless. There is simply no way to check that it actually works.

And then we have the materials tested via NMR. Oh. What materials? The ones which cannot be verified? Yup. The test results can only be said to have analyzed some unknown substance provided by Mills. There is no "chain of custody", and no possibility of using another researcher's experiments to verify that the test materials were what Mills claims.

In other words, the paper might be a fraud, and it might be real. Mills's failure to explain (in the paper) that any independent replication attempts will be met by legal action constitutes a major breach of scientific ethics, and suggests that the heart of the paper is nothing more than an attempt at spurious verisimilitude.

Any paper which cannot be replicated is worthless. Mills's refusal to allow independent replication renders the paper worthless. And the elaborate nature of the paper suggests something other than honesty.
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Old 14th October 2017, 04:32 PM   #3279
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I’m sure he’ll be able to agree with himself once Mills releases a working generator or heater he can use as a defense device.
Nope, the heater could work like gangbusters but self-contradiction in an explanation of how it works simply means that the explanation (not necessarily the heater) just doesn't work.

Funny thing is they want the hydrino to be only partialy photo-phobic so to speak. Radiationless transition and no photo-ionization or photon absorption to just higher energy states. However, they need it to give off transitional radiation both for the explanation of the detection of the sub ground transitions and for the latest claim to harvesting power from those transitions (the sun cell). A catch 22. Also if as asserted the hydrnio can be collisionally ionized then photons can do that as well, since such ionization is just a higher electron energy state. Thing is when you absorb some energy and momentum from some particle you don't necessarily absorb that particle. However, when you absorb the energy and momentum of a photon you do absorb that photon, as energy and momentum is all a photon has. They don't want the states to be radiantly coupled to deny transitions by photon absorption but want the states to be radiantly coupled to assert photonic emission form the transition. Kinetic energy is the key thing that keeps getting harped on, yet while the only energy a photon has is kinetic it gets treated like a red hydrino'd step child.
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Old 14th October 2017, 06:46 PM   #3280
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
There is also a difference between a transition being radiationless and that transition emitting, well, radiation. You have specifically asserted both. Again by all means please, let us know when you can at least agree with just yourself.
The energy released during hydrino formation is a two stage process.
First, a catalyst steals a multiple of 27.2 eV of energy from ground state hydrogen, via a radiationless process. The catalyst ionizes and exits the picture. Then the destabilized hydrogen atom's electron falls to a lower, hydrino energy state, giving off continuum radiation in the process. This is described in much more detail in the Introduction in Mills' GUTCP book, with energy equations and variations in the process, for instance fast H produced rather than continuum radiation.

I have a correction to make to something I said earlier. I said that when hydrogen atoms serve as a catalyst that at least two catalyst atoms are required. It may be that just one is required, although more may be involved.
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