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Tags Affordable Care Act , AHCA , donald trump , health care issues , health insurance issues , obamacare , Trumpcare

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Old 17th July 2017, 11:34 PM   #281
Tony Stark
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Can you do a full repeal under budget reconciliation?
No, they can't repeal the regulations that way.

They did pass a "repeal" in 2015 using reconciliation gutted it as much as possible. But they were protected from the consequences of that because they knew for a fact that Obama would veto it.

Same bill would not pass now, almost certainly.
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Old 18th July 2017, 01:16 AM   #282
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McCain calls for 'return to regular order' on ObamaCare repeal

Quote:
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Monday night Congress should “return to regular order” to craft a replacement for ObamaCare.

“One of the major problems with Obamacare was that it was written on a strict party-line basis and driven through Congress without a single Republican vote. As this law continues to crumble in Arizona and states across the country, we must not repeat the original mistakes that led to Obamacare’s failure,” he said in a statement from Arizona, where he is recovering from surgery.

“The Congress must now return to regular order, hold hearings, receive input from members of both parties, and heed the recommendations of our nation's governors so that we can produce a bill that finally provides Americans with access to quality and affordable health care.”

McCain’s statement comes after GOP Sens. Jerry Moran (Kan.) and Mike Lee (Utah) announced on Monday night they will not support taking up a bill repealing and replacing ObamaCare, effectively blocking the legislation.
Sounds like nothing will be done in the near future then. Effectively it may be left for the next congress. This year is more than halfway over already and next year is an election year. And they probably want to move on to other things like big tax cuts for the rich.
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Old 18th July 2017, 02:40 AM   #283
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An there is a lie there, that Obamacare was passed without Republican input. The Democrats invited them, had hearings and implemented plenty of Republican amendments but the Republicans keep on telling lies about it.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:22 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't understand why the news media can't just come out and say it, the GOP cannot deliver on replacing the ACA because they've been lying about actually having a replacement all this time.

The media will report everything but like, 'can't get both the moderates and the far right in the party together'. That is not the problem. Or, 'they are trying to please the base'. That is also not the problem. Or, 'they had 7 years to get a plan together and didn't do it.' That last one is as far as the news media wants to go when it comes to stating the truth.

On the other side the news media has repeated the Democratic message, it's a tax cut and the GOP wants to get rid of the Medicaid expansion. But that still side-steps the one unstated fact:

The truth is, the GOP promised a magical health care bill and it has always been and continues to be a big lie. I wish the media would at least mention that truth.



As I post this I am reminded of the latest GOP talking point, the ACA only impacts 10% of the population. If that is the case, why all the fuss about the things the ACA mandated insurers cover?
Because the news media wants to treat it as a drama like house of cards far more than they want to report on the actual policies being discussed. So they focus on votes and not effects.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:23 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
For me, I am amazed by the public spectacle of the GOP pressing forward with a plan that is overwhelmingly opposed and hated by the vast majority of the public, the medical community, the health insurance businesses, many or most State governors (including many Republicans), and, in fact, a singnificant number of GOP Senators (who have to be unhappily recruited one by one by threats or "brides"). A plan that will take away access to health insurance for 10s of millions and raise premiums on many of the ill and elderly. Doesn't the Republican leadership feel at least a bit embarrassed by their obvious desperation to pass this stinking heap of legislation that is going to be a disaster for so many, with the only possible goals to repudiate Obama and funding tax cuts to the wealthiest?
The problem is that they look bad no matter what happens. Now they look like they can not even get their own party to vote for their legislation, and can not carry through their promises to repeal Obamacare.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:24 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Realistically, I think expanding Medicare has virtually no chance to survive a Republican Congress. They're going in the opposite direction: they want to restrict Medicare eligibility.
Ryan does want to privatize it so that the governments contribution can be controlled.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:26 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
McCain calls for 'return to regular order' on ObamaCare repeal



Sounds like nothing will be done in the near future then. Effectively it may be left for the next congress. This year is more than halfway over already and next year is an election year. And they probably want to move on to other things like big tax cuts for the rich.
Yet, if this had come up for a vote, McCain would have voted for it. I didn't hear him come out opposed. Typical. The guy is all talk but in the end is just a lap dog.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:30 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The GOP can't ditch all of its extremists in order to find common ground with Democrats: Paul Ryan is one of them, after all.
It would probably be easier to let the Democrats draft the reform, and see how many Republicans are willing to go along.
What would the point be, could it even get a vote in the house if Ryan was against it?
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:38 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What would the point be, could it even get a vote in the house if Ryan was against it?
Paul Ryan would sooner resign the Speakership than allow a vote on expanded Medicare.
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:02 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Not really. The risk corridors were always planned to sunset, as was the federal reinsurance. The mandate might have some impact, but it really hasn't been as big a driver of adoption as you might think. At max, it still ends up being equivalent to roughly 2 months of premium on a silver plan, depending where you are and the prevailing prices in that area.

The biggest death knells for ACA are:
  • It doesn't do anything about cost
  • large provider groups know insurers have geo-access requirements and have been unwilling to come down on price
  • Most of the new entrants to the marketplace are older and/or sicker than average, definitely higher cost than in the pre-ACA market
  • The youngest and healthiest can stay on their parent's group coverage for a fraction of the price until age 26
  • Essential benefits are extensive and significantly more coverage than previously available which forces prices up
  • How Actuarial Value is defined exacerbates adverse selection impacts

Those aren't any of the things that have been 'sabotaged'. Those are the basic underpinnings of the law.
The "Law" was a compromise that was forced on Obama.
It could be improved but the Republicans have no interest in doing that.
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:07 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Can you do a full repeal under budget reconciliation?
You can do anything you want with the numbers.
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:16 AM   #292
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I see President Trump is calling for the ACA to be repealed without there being any kind of replacement of the horizon - I guess deliberately creating a burning bridge.

That sounds like the way to create a really crappy piece of legislation to me but what do I know.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out if the GOP deliberately allows the ACA to fail. I hope they will be punished electorally, sadly I think they may not.
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:18 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post

So what happens now? Any chance of some kind of bipartisan reform?



Why are you laughing?
If they were smart they would stay out of it entirely. There are no reforms Republicans are willing to support that will improve the existing law, and Democratic participation will end up being nothing more than a scapegoat for the failure of the process. Real forward movement can only come from the Republican based summing to terms with the flaws in their dogma or from a Democratic majority.
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:26 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I see President Trump is calling for the ACA to be repealed without there being any kind of replacement of the horizon - I guess deliberately creating a burning bridge.

That sounds like the way to create a really crappy piece of legislation to me but what do I know.

Republicans passed that in 2015 (Obama vetoed) . The CBO said 32 million would lose insurance and premiums would double.

There is no way there are 50 Senators that would vote for that. Mitch McConnell is talking about bringing it up for a vote. Maybe just to show Trump how little support there is for that idea.


And Trump also blames all the Democrats (and a few Republicans) for the bill dying.

I think that the Democrats would love to be "blamed" for it not passing.
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:26 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
If they were smart they would stay out of it entirely. There are no reforms Republicans are willing to support that will improve the existing law, and Democratic participation will end up being nothing more than a scapegoat for the failure of the process. Real forward movement can only come from the Republican based summing to terms with the flaws in their dogma or from a Democratic majority.
The "disaster" that is ACA is the result of a Democratic Party attempt to compromise. As some great philosopher once said:

Originally Posted by FortyThree
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:43 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Republicans passed that in 2015 (Obama vetoed) . The CBO said 32 million would lose insurance and premiums would double.

There is no way there are 50 Senators that would vote for that. Mitch McConnell is talking about bringing it up for a vote. Maybe just to show Trump how little support there is for that idea.
They will change their vote? They thought it was a good idea recently what changed their mind?
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:55 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
They will change their vote? They thought it was a good idea recently what changed their mind?
What changed their minds is that now there is no Obama to veto it, so they would have to live with the consequences of it actually becoming law. Political theater vs reality.
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:59 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
What changed their minds is that now there is no Obama to veto it, so they would have to live with the consequences of it actually becoming law. Political theater vs reality.
So flip flopping. You really think the republicans have lost enough control to let something that bad come up for a vote?
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Old 18th July 2017, 07:12 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I see President Trump is calling for the ACA to be repealed without there being any kind of replacement of the horizon - I guess deliberately creating a burning bridge.

That sounds like the way to create a really crappy piece of legislation to me but what do I know.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out if the GOP deliberately allows the ACA to fail. I hope they will be punished electorally, sadly I think they may not.
He thinks that if it's repealed the Democrats will forced to come to the table to craft a new bill on Republican terms. McCain on the other hand, if I'm understanding correctly, is talking about a bipartisan repeal and replace bill, which would put the Democrats in a stronger position.
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Old 18th July 2017, 07:18 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
He thinks that if it's repealed the Democrats will forced to come to the table to craft a new bill on Republican terms. McCain on the other hand, if I'm understanding correctly, is talking about a bipartisan repeal and replace bill, which would put the Democrats in a stronger position.
Schumer and Pelosi should tell them that if they want Democrats to even consider, that cutting Medicaid is off the table and that any bill must increased the number of people covered.
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Old 18th July 2017, 07:45 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Schumer and Pelosi should tell them that if they want Democrats to even consider, that cutting Medicaid is off the table and that any bill must increased the number of people covered.
They can probably try that if the straight repeal fails, but will it? I'm waiting for some Republicans to commit to voting against a straight repeal, certainly the conservatives who didn't like repeal and replace because it didn't go far enough won't vote against a repeal.
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Old 18th July 2017, 07:46 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Schumer and Pelosi should tell them that if they want Democrats to even consider, that cutting Medicaid is off the table and that any bill must increased the number of people covered.
And they can even justify it on the grounds that this is what the President promised.
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Old 18th July 2017, 08:38 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
They can probably try that if the straight repeal fails, but will it? I'm waiting for some Republicans to commit to voting against a straight repeal, certainly the conservatives who didn't like repeal and replace because it didn't go far enough won't vote against a repeal.
Collins and Capito are already no.

I would be shocked if they pass this
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Old 18th July 2017, 09:10 AM   #304
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GOP right now on BCRA:

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I AGREE
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Old 18th July 2017, 09:26 AM   #305
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Time for Single-Payer.
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Old 18th July 2017, 09:29 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Time for Single-Payer.
Things are going to have to get far worse before they will destroy american jobs like that. The health care billing industry is to big to cut back onl.
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Old 18th July 2017, 09:41 AM   #307
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Murkowski is a no.

So "full" repeal is already dead.
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Old 18th July 2017, 09:47 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Things are going to have to get far worse before they will destroy american jobs like that. The health care billing industry is to big to cut back onl.
Put 'em to work in the coal mines.
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Old 18th July 2017, 10:10 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Murkowski is a no.

So "full" repeal is already dead.
. We'll win so much you'll get bored from all the winning.
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Old 18th July 2017, 10:52 AM   #310
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“I alone can fix it.”

~~ Donald Trump, speaking at the Republican national convention in July 2016.

“I’m not going to own it.”

~~President Trump, quoted by the AP, after the GOP effort to repeal Obamacare collapsed.

--------
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Old 18th July 2017, 10:57 AM   #311
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I think a clear failure on healthcare is exactly the type of thing that can overshadow some of the other big wins of Trump's administration. Not clear how Republican voters will assign blame, but I'm pretty sure that Trump won't come out of it looking good.
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Old 18th July 2017, 11:11 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
“I alone can fix it.”

~~ Donald Trump, speaking at the Republican national convention in July 2016.

“I’m not going to own it.”

~~President Trump, quoted by the AP, after the GOP effort to repeal Obamacare collapsed.

--------
Nice catch.
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Old 18th July 2017, 12:14 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Expand Medicare?

Then why'd you suggest it?
Because it is a good idea, and would be effective in terms of getting appropriate and affordable coverage in place.

Congress being packed to the gills with dummies all around doesn't change that.
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Old 18th July 2017, 12:17 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
c) ramp up the penalties to the the point that young people will be forced to buy coverage. Emphasize that, despite appearances, they themselves will actually get old some day, thus balancing the equation.
Stack on penalties to ensure that they can't afford either thing, and end up screwed no matter what!

If there were some sort of a savings plan in place, that might make more sense. But there's not - it's not like the money being paid by young people today is going to cover their costs when they're old. This is straight up nothing but intergenerational subsidization. It's bankrupting* young people today with the promise that they'll get to bankrupt younger people at some unspecified point in the future.

*Yes, hyperbole. OMG!!!
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Old 18th July 2017, 12:18 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Current version of the health care bill is officially dead:

New GOP health bill lacks the votes to pass



So what happens now? Any chance of some kind of bipartisan reform?



Why are you laughing?
It's a new low bar when my greatest hope is that nothing horrible makes it through. That's all. I'm not hoping for any improvements at this point, just hoping nobody makes it worse. Where are we at as a country when the best option is total gridlock in our government?
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Old 18th July 2017, 12:31 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
He thinks that if it's repealed the Democrats will forced to come to the table to craft a new bill on Republican terms. McCain on the other hand, if I'm understanding correctly, is talking about a bipartisan repeal and replace bill, which would put the Democrats in a stronger position.
I think you're being too complicated. Trump just wants it to be known as Trumpcare™* that's his only motivation.



*even if it were exactly the same as Obamacare.
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Old 18th July 2017, 01:15 PM   #317
Tony Stark
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It is metaphysically impossible for Republicans to come up with a healthcare plan that is better than Obamacare. Because to Republicans, the most important part of healthcare reform is tax cuts.
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Old 18th July 2017, 01:33 PM   #318
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I get annoyed at how little push-back we are hearing from the Democrats.

For how many years now have we heard over and over that Obama Care has failed, is failing, whatever. It's been the GOP intense talking point for days. I have only heard a couple newscasters, mostly on MSNBC, push back and challenge the claim.

Where are all the Democratic talking heads telling us it is not failing or failed, whatever.

LA Times (column): Republicans call Obamacare a 'failure.' These 7 charts show they couldn't be more wrong

All the while we hear the utterly dishonest proclamation that Trump and/or the GOP have a better plan with more coverage for less money. It's a bald-faced lie. And even that gets little push-back and rarely is it ever called what it really is, a lie.
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Old 18th July 2017, 02:04 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
“I alone can fix it.”

~~ Donald Trump, speaking at the Republican national convention in July 2016.

“I’m not going to own it.”

~~President Trump, quoted by the AP, after the GOP effort to repeal Obamacare collapsed.

--------
This is the thing that I find amusing. Why are they calling this "Trumpcare"? He clearly has almost nothing to do with it. I'm sure his staff might be involved in some of it, but he has made it clear that it is up to congressional leadership to come up with something. Despite his claims that "we" are going to do it easy and cheap, he's left it up to someone else. It's kind of the opposite of leadership.

Obama led the way with the ACA. Yeah, Pelosi et all were involved and so on, but Obama led it, and everyone else followed. Meanwhile, Trump doesn't have a clue what is even in the friggin bill.
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Old 18th July 2017, 02:24 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
This is the thing that I find amusing. Why are they calling this "Trumpcare"? He clearly has almost nothing to do with it. I'm sure his staff might be involved in some of it, but he has made it clear that it is up to congressional leadership to come up with something. Despite his claims that "we" are going to do it easy and cheap, he's left it up to someone else. It's kind of the opposite of leadership.

Obama led the way with the ACA. Yeah, Pelosi et all were involved and so on, but Obama led it, and everyone else followed. Meanwhile, Trump doesn't have a clue what is even in the friggin bill.
Republicans naming the ACA Obamacare didn't have anything to do with how much work he did on it. It was propaganda. They correctly figured that people would like Obamacare less than the ACA.

Last edited by Tony Stark; 18th July 2017 at 02:25 PM.
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