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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 26th September 2017, 02:12 PM   #2201
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Why is the RNC paying legal fees for a private business executive whose work is completely separate from the White House?

Quote:
The party is also covering the mounting legal costs for the president's eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., spending nearly $200,000 this month on lawyers who helped him prepare for his testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Those payments, including more than $166,000 to attorney Alan Futerfas, will be reported on the RNC's FEC filing next month.
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Old 26th September 2017, 08:51 PM   #2202
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post

Draining the swamp, one (of somebody else's) bank account at a time.
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Old 27th September 2017, 06:34 AM   #2203
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Poor Bryan MacDonald had to watch an - anti-Russian propaganda "think" tank - Atlantic Council livestream for RT and wrote an amusing review.

Originally Posted by Putin bot with Irish codename
1.03PM: Elder brings up the German elections and, amazingly, we have now passed the big '5-0' because 56 people are watching! She asks Pomerantsev what the Russians were doing during the campaign. He observes how “every election is a Russian election nowadays" and claims the AfD and the Kremlin are natural allies, "feeding together," further observing that 20 percent of Germans are living in an alternate reality with no relation to the center anymore. German voters will surely be amused to learn about this Brit who thinks anybody who doesn't support the status quo in their country lives in “an alternative reality.” But Pomerantsev doesn’t seem self-aware enough to realize his own myopia.

1,09AM: Ilves says Thuringia was known as the “valley of the clueless” during the Cold War because it didn’t get West German TV. He then insists the region mostly votes for Die Linke and AfD, missing how Angela Merkel's CDU won the most votes there during the last state election, only three years ago. Ilves also fails to take into account that Thuringia is one of Germany's poorest länder (states.) But, anyway, it wasn’t Thuringia which was referred to as the “valley of clueless” in the first place - it was actually Dresden, which everyone called "Tal der Ahnungslosen." In reality, Thuringia bordered the West and had no signal problems. Once again, nobody pulls Ilves up on this. Instead, they all just laugh, adrift in their own cluelessness. And this is the level of dialogue here. Meanwhile, I am almost falling asleep.

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Last edited by Childlike Empress; 27th September 2017 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 27th September 2017, 06:46 AM   #2204
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Do you need to attribute Matthew yglesias in your post?
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Old 27th September 2017, 12:44 PM   #2205
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
You're conflating the Manafort search warrant (which is undisputed) with the alleged Facebook search warrant (which is still imaginary).
You are correct, I did inadvertently conflate the two.
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Old 4th October 2017, 06:55 AM   #2206
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Senate Intel leaders are expected to largely endorse the report on Russian meddling today, sound the alarm.

Quote:
The planned news conference from Sens. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Mark R. Warner (D-Va.) has been billed as a forum for the two panel leaders to give the public an interim status update on the committee’s long-running investigation of allegations Russia attempted to meddle in the 2016 U.S. elections, and members of the Trump campaign may have colluded with Kremlin officials to improve their chance of victory. It is one of only a handful of public events the Senate Intelligence Committee has held in the nine months since commencing its probe.

In the course of that investigation, committee members and staff investigators have interviewed several members of the intelligence community and Trump’s inner circle, mostly behind closed doors — including former campaign chief Paul Manafort and current senior adviser Jared Kushner, who is also President Trump’s son-in-law. They have also spoken with senior executives of social media companies like Facebook and Twitter, which carried many of the Russian-backed ads and falsified accounts that tried to exploit popular divisions in the run-up to the election. The committee is expected to continue those conversations in a public hearing with the tech giants early next month; Burr and Warner may share additional information about the social media-focused part of their probe on Wednesday.

The Senate Intelligence Committee is one of three congressional panels looking into aspects of alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 elections, and one of two committees directly reviewing the intelligence community’s report on Russian active measures. Despite considerable political controversy surrounding those probes, most members of Trump’s national security team have endorsed the intelligence community’s findings. The president himself has yet to say he believes them.
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Old 4th October 2017, 09:32 AM   #2207
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Appears to be a final status -- if I understood them, they're more or less shutting down. Burr has said about four times that they've interviewed "every official of the Obama administration". That's a lot of interviews.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:12 AM   #2208
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Appears to be a final status -- if I understood them, they're more or less shutting down. Burr has said about four times that they've interviewed "every official of the Obama administration". That's a lot of interviews.

Doesn't sound like they're anywhere close to shutting down:
Quote:
Mr. Burr had expressed a desire this summer to conclude the probe by the year’s end. But on Wednesday, he all but conceded that with so many avenues of investigation still open that would not be possible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/u...ion-trump.html
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Old 4th October 2017, 12:45 PM   #2209
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OK, that sounds more like it. I was paying more attention to the forum than to the TV at the time.
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Old 4th October 2017, 01:03 PM   #2210
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
OK, that sounds more like it. I was paying more attention to the forum than to the TV at the time.
Now that they're past acknowledging the obvious, they can begin investigating collusion.
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Old 4th October 2017, 06:49 PM   #2211
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Now that they're past acknowledging the obvious, they can begin investigating collusion.
Investigating is good. But I hope they don't find conclusive proof, because then Republicans would have an excuse to get rid of Trump.

We don't want that. We want the investigation to drag out at least until the next presidential election. And we want Trump to still be the incumbent, so that the FBI can announce the discovery of new evidence (that turns out to be nothing) just before the election.
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Old 5th October 2017, 01:12 AM   #2212
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Investigating is good. But I hope they don't find conclusive proof, because then Republicans would have an excuse to get rid of Trump.

We don't want that. We want the investigation to drag out at least until the next presidential election. And we want Trump to still be the incumbent, so that the FBI can announce the discovery of new evidence (that turns out to be nothing) just before the election.
While I appreciate the irony and attempt at setting up future shadenfreude, I want Trump gone now. Preferrably yesterday. He's a danger to humanity.
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Old 5th October 2017, 06:30 AM   #2213
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Investigating is good. But I hope they don't find conclusive proof, because then Republicans would have an excuse to get rid of Trump.

We don't want that. We want the investigation to drag out at least until the next presidential election. And we want Trump to still be the incumbent, so that the FBI can announce the discovery of new evidence (that turns out to be nothing) just before the election.
Yes, because as we all know, having bad things Trump has done come to light will probably make people less likely to vote for him.

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Old 5th October 2017, 08:03 AM   #2214
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
While I appreciate the irony and attempt at setting up future shadenfreude, I want Trump gone now. Preferrably yesterday. He's a danger to humanity.
While Pence, meanwhile, is merely an extreme danger to religious liberty in the USA.
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Old 6th October 2017, 01:28 PM   #2215
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Russia targeted Wisconsin and Michigan voters in multiple ways:
https://www.salon.com/2017/10/06/rus...and-wisconsin/
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Old 6th October 2017, 06:13 PM   #2216
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Russia targeted Wisconsin and Michigan voters in multiple ways:
https://www.salon.com/2017/10/06/rus...and-wisconsin/
I'm open-minded on the Russian influence issues, but this is some garbage journalism. Way too juvenile and preachy.
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Old 6th October 2017, 08:56 PM   #2217
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'm open-minded on the Russian influence issues, but this is some garbage journalism. Way too juvenile and preachy.
Preachy or otherwise, the key question is "Is it true?" And all the evidence indicates that it is.
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:10 PM   #2218
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Preachy or otherwise, the key question is "Is it true?" And all the evidence indicates that it is.
Ok.
Granted.
But what is true?

And the facebook ad story has got to be the most ridiculous one yet!

At first sight: 100.000$ in facebook ads can buy you 3 states? I thought that would be a little more expensive. But alas, hillary didn't have that kind of funds to throw around.

But if you look a little closer it gets even more ridiculous:
According to facebook (https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/10...d-to-congress/) it's even cheaper! 56% of the impressions were after the election! 44.000$ for 3 states!

Also: best way to get people to vote against hillary: show them pictures of puppies!
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/t...ads-.html?_r=0

And of course there is the whole aspect of evil russians attacking the integrity of the US vote by providing US voters with information! How dare they!
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:53 PM   #2219
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Originally Posted by magellan View Post
And of course there is the whole aspect of evil russians attacking the integrity of the US vote by providing US voters with information! How dare they!
How naive. Fake news and social engineering is not 'information'.

But don't let that stop you from trying to minimize it. As someone who hates America, I think Russia is doing a great job.
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Old 7th October 2017, 01:02 PM   #2220
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Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Ok.
Granted.
But what is true?

And the facebook ad story has got to be the most ridiculous one yet!

At first sight: 100.000$ in facebook ads can buy you 3 states? I thought that would be a little more expensive. But alas, hillary didn't have that kind of funds to throw around.

But if you look a little closer it gets even more ridiculous:
According to facebook (https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/10...d-to-congress/) it's even cheaper! 56% of the impressions were after the election! 44.000$ for 3 states!
I don't think you are making your case here.

Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Also: best way to get people to vote against hillary: show them pictures of puppies!
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/t...ads-.html?_r=0
There's nothing in that link supporting this.

Originally Posted by magellan View Post
And of course there is the whole aspect of evil russians attacking the integrity of the US vote by providing US voters with information! How dare they!


So in your mind fake news is "information"?
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Old 7th October 2017, 03:02 PM   #2221
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
How naive. Fake news and social engineering is not 'information'.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So in your mind fake news is "information"?

I suspect that magellan is still referring to the Clinton emai—LOCK 'ER UP!! *cough* Sorry. Pavlovian response...
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Old 7th October 2017, 03:03 PM   #2222
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Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Ok.
Granted.
But what is true?

And the facebook ad story has got to be the most ridiculous one yet!

At first sight: 100.000$ in facebook ads can buy you 3 states? I thought that would be a little more expensive. But alas, hillary didn't have that kind of funds to throw around.

But if you look a little closer it gets even more ridiculous:
According to facebook (https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/10...d-to-congress/) it's even cheaper! 56% of the impressions were after the election! 44.000$ for 3 states!

Also: best way to get people to vote against hillary: show them pictures of puppies!
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/t...ads-.html?_r=0

And of course there is the whole aspect of evil russians attacking the integrity of the US vote by providing US voters with information! How dare they!
Sorry, just to be clear, you have no problem with foreign governments buying targeted ads to influence our elections?

Never mind how successful they may have been (or not). You're keen with that?

Not really worth looking into?

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Old 7th October 2017, 08:19 PM   #2223
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
While Pence, meanwhile, is merely an extreme danger to religious liberty in the USA.
It's a sad state of affairs. Trump staying in office is a danger to the world from nuclear war and civil liberties in the USA. Pence in office is a danger to civil liberties in the USA but not so much nuclear war. We're less screwed with Pence in office, but screwed non-the-less.
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Old 9th October 2017, 04:36 AM   #2224
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These vloggers promoted Bernie & Trump on behalf of 'we, the black people.' Turns out, they were hired by the Kremlin.

Quote:
According to the YouTube page for “Williams and Kalvin,” the Clintons are “serial killers who are going to rape the whole nation.” Donald Trump can’t be racist because he’s a “businessman.” Hillary Clinton’s campaign was “fund[ed] by the Muslim.”

These are a sample of the videos put together by two black video bloggers calling themselves Williams and Kalvin Johnson, whose social media pages investigators say are part of the broad Russian campaign to influence American politics. Across Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube, they purported to offer “a word of truth” to African-American audiences.

“We, the black people, we stand in one unity. We stand in one to say that Hillary Clinton is not our candidate,” one of the men says in a November video that warned Clinton “is going to stand for the Muslim. We don’t stand for her.”

Williams and Kalvin’s content was pulled from Facebook in August after it was identified as a Russian government-backed propaganda account, The Daily Beast has confirmed with multiple sources familiar with the account and the reasons for its removal. Williams and Kalvin’s account was also suspended from Twitter in August. But the YouTube page for Williams and Kalvin remains live at press time.
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Old 9th October 2017, 04:52 AM   #2225
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Government-backed propaganda accounts are not allowed on Facebook?

Hold on, I've got some pages to report...

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Old 9th October 2017, 07:10 AM   #2226
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I'm no expert on accents, but these guys are obviously not American. They sound pretty much like what you would expect from the Nigerian scammers. Clinton-haters might have eaten it up, but it's hard to believe they had any influence on undecided voters.
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Old 9th October 2017, 07:24 AM   #2227
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More on the Russian ads:
Quote:
At least one outside researcher has said that the influence of Russian disinformation on Facebook is much greater than the company has so far acknowledged and encompasses paid ads as well as posts published on Facebook pages controlled by Russian agents. The posts were shared hundreds of millions of times, said Jonathan Albright, research director of the Tow Center for Digital Journalism at Columbia University.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...her-platforms/
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Old 9th October 2017, 08:01 AM   #2228
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Hundreds of millions of shares. So either everyone in America shared them or maybe the same Russian bot farms were creating a bot echo chamber (or some of both).

From early MMO gaming all the way through modern social media, most people far overestimate the impact of likes, shares, and hollow nods of agreement. The most overwhelming seeming campaigns are always contrived.

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Old 9th October 2017, 03:49 PM   #2229
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I'm no expert on accents, but these guys are obviously not American. They sound pretty much like what you would expect from the Nigerian scammers. Clinton-haters might have eaten it up, but it's hard to believe they had any influence on undecided voters.

I wanted to see what kind of views their YouTube videos had gotten, but the account has been removed.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Hundreds of millions of shares. So either everyone in America shared them or maybe the same Russian bot farms were creating a bot echo chamber (or some of both).

Likely more bots than actual humans, but I doubt these sorts of campaigns are concerned with legitimate "participation". They wouldn't need people to pass on the stories or ads; they just need to get into peoples' heads.

Quote:
From early MMO gaming all the way through modern social media, most people far overestimate the impact of likes, shares, and hollow nods of agreement. The most overwhelming seeming campaigns are always contrived.

Ehh. Maybe. It sounds like this was less about starting fires and more about fanning existing flames. Or maybe an avalanche metaphor is more appropriate. You may not need to exert a whole lot of influence at the start to end up with a big effect.

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Old 9th October 2017, 04:01 PM   #2230
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
[Foreign] Government-backed propaganda accounts [intended to influence the US election are illegal under US law] not allowed on Facebook?

Hold on, I've got some pages to report...

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FTFY

Whether FB is liable or just the people that placed the ads depends on the yet to be determined if FB is a media company or a tech platform company.
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Old 9th October 2017, 04:04 PM   #2231
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Hundreds of millions of shares. So either everyone in America shared them or maybe the same Russian bot farms were creating a bot echo chamber (or some of both).

From early MMO gaming all the way through modern social media, most people far overestimate the impact of likes, shares, and hollow nods of agreement. The most overwhelming seeming campaigns are always contrived.
It is possible to share something with people who someone else already shared it with. It is possible people shared it more than once and are being counted as multiple different shares.
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Old 9th October 2017, 04:08 PM   #2232
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
FTFY

Whether FB is liable or just the people that placed the ads depends on the yet to be determined if FB is a media company or a tech platform company.
Why would FaceBook be held liable? I'm not following the reasoning on this.
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Old 9th October 2017, 05:35 PM   #2233
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It is possible to share something with people who someone else already shared it with. It is possible people shared it more than once and are being counted as multiple different shares.
The reference is to "posts published on Facebook pages controlled by Russian agents", not just one particular item. What with that and the multiplier effect you mention the significance of "hundreds of millions" is impossible to judge.
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Old 9th October 2017, 06:59 PM   #2234
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Why would FaceBook be held liable? I'm not following the reasoning on this.

I suppose it might be similar to a gun store being held liable in some capacity for a shooting if it was found they sold the weapon used in the shooting to the shooter when there were clear signs that they should not have done so.

Pretty hard to prove, though, I would think.

Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 9th October 2017 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:15 AM   #2235
jimbob
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Organizers behind armed white supremacist protest in Houston revealed as Russian
"It really gives an indication of the extent to which there must be a major Russian apparatus."


Quote:
As CNN reported last week, the protest was put together by the “Heart of Texas” Facebook page – a page that was revealed last month as one of the fake accounts operated out of Russia. Unlike the November anti-Hillary Clinton, pro-secession rallies the page attempted to organize across Texas, the May protest not only brought armed protesters, but a raft of counter-protesters to face down those calling for “white power!”
Quote:
“What’s relevant about the Russia thing is it absolutely validates the concern that people have that the Russians were putting out completely fabricated stories,” Faisal Shah, a lawyer for the Islamic center, told ThinkProgress. Or as Mustafaa Carroll, executive director of CAIR Texas, told Houston’s ABC affiliate, “This stuff where we see the Russians instigating – you know, that’s crazy.”
Quote:
“What’s kind of remarkable is that a Russian agent would be burrowing down that deep in the weeds to find a story that’s that local, and cooking up something, fabricating something, at such a small picture, such a detailed picture,” Shah added. “It really gives an indication of the extent to which there must be a major Russian apparatus, that they’re willing to put the kind of resources to drill down that deep. So I’m actually kind of fascinated by just the depth of fake news.”
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 10th October 2017, 12:54 PM   #2236
jimbob
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It seems Russian twitter bots are still supporting Trump

http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org

Quote:
Between September 30 and October 6, we examined 62 unique URLs that were promoted by Kremlin-oriented Twitter accounts. As with past weeks, promoted content fit within two broad categories: social and political content of interest to Americans, and Kremlin-friendly views of issues of interest to Russia. Unsurprisingly, over 25% of the URLs examined featured stories on the mass shooting in Las Vegas. Of those stories, roughly two-thirds promoted various conspiracy theories and/or targeted the left for their individual or collective response to the tragedy. Seven stories (11%) focused on hurricane relief in Puerto Rico, all with the primary theme of either discrediting San Juan Mayor Yulin Cruz or accusing the media of spreading “fake news.” Additionally, there were seven stories that broadly fit into an anti-protest bucket, and three stories that highlighted the Obama administration’s use of pricey, non-commercial planes (a tactic known as “whataboutism”). As usual, Syria was the most prominent geopolitical topic (six stories). The other geopolitical content promoted by the network revealed a wide range of Kremlin interests, with individual stories focusing on Hungary, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Ukraine, and Venezuela. Across all stories, the most prominent themes were mistrust for the “deep state” (10%), anti-Americanism (11%), and Russia-as-a-victim of the West (11%).
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OECD healthcare spending
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http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:34 AM   #2237
Bob001
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A short guide to Russia's election influence on social media:
http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...nd_google.html
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:24 AM   #2238
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Does anybody happen to have any info on whether Russia is alone in this approach, or if there are other countries that have engaged in similar tactics with respect to our last election?
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:42 AM   #2239
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Does anybody happen to have any info on whether Russia is alone in this approach, or if there are other countries that have engaged in similar tactics with respect to our last election?
By what I've seen, the closest thing in the news has been about money-seeking non-government Macedonian fake news producers. Other governments did seek to influence the 2016 elections, but there's been no news that I've seen about any that would make their attempts remotely equatable to Russia's. The Ukrainian government backing a US citizen's investigation of Manafort isn't remotely equatable, for example.
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Old 12th October 2017, 12:08 PM   #2240
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Good news, just saw it on TV: Putin got grounded by Butters' dad! And even better: Zuckerberg switched off facebook!
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