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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 11th October 2017, 04:06 PM   #3041
Vixen
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
What burglar alarm? If one even existed there is no evidence of anyone ever using it or of Guede being aware of it's existence.

Interesting that you've never questioned two nerdy college students becoming "crafty serial killers" yet you seem to struggle with the idea of Guede becoming one. Do you even know what it means to be a serial killer? Your objectivity continues to shine in your posts.

There is no indication that Guede had a backpack, or an aluminum glass-breaking hammer that evening. But if the intent was to break the window and then hide to see if anyone responds, tossing a rock (it was not a boulder but your objectivity is duly noted) is a much better option than having to get within arms reach of the window to use a hammer.
The senior partner at the burgled law firm said he thought it was an inside job as the burglar alarm was disabled.

Now I've been the last to lock up at a previous workplace. When I failed to set the alarm properly on my way out, it triggered an auto phone call to one of the trustees, who had to make her way across town to turn the thing off.

The lawyers also said they believe the intruders were after legal data, as a USB stick was taken and also equipment which needed a couple of people to carry it out and drive it away.

If Rudy was found in possession of a small glass breaking hammer just days before the crime, then he is hardly going to use an oversized rock in full view of oncoming traffic at a busy time of evening.

The point Marasca makes about it being the mark of a serial killer and not an opportunistic burglar, is a reference to the sadistic nature of the crime. Whilst an interrupted criminal may well hit a witness, and quite brutally, they rarely resort to cold calculated torture, which marks this case as someone who knew Mez personally and wanted to victimise her.
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Last edited by Vixen; 11th October 2017 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 11th October 2017, 04:09 PM   #3042
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By the way, how about a citation for that claim that RS had a "huge tattoo" of Darko on his shoulder?
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Old 11th October 2017, 04:11 PM   #3043
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This is what drives me crazy about Vixen. She thinks that it is right to convict someone without evidence. There is absolutely no evidence of premeditation. None. There is no evidence of a sex game gone wrong. Asserting something is not the same as proving it.

There are no testimonies about what happened in the cottage that evening so how does one establish premeditation? It's impossible. The evidence is pathetic.
Transporting a kitchen knife in her bag to the cottage...?

In any case, premeditation can be a matter of seconds.

Just going to the kitchen to grab a knife is premeditation if the intention is to kill.
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Old 11th October 2017, 04:15 PM   #3044
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
By the way, how about a citation for that claim that RS had a "huge tattoo" of Darko on his shoulder?
You must have a short memory. I provided one before, so please do a search.
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Old 11th October 2017, 04:16 PM   #3045
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The senior partner at the burgled law firm said he thought it was an inside job as the burglar alarm was disabled.

Now I've been the last to lock up at a previous workplace. When I failed to set the alarm properly on my way out, it triggered an auto phone call to one of the trustees, who had to make her way across town to turn the thing off.

The lawyers also said they believe the intruders were after legal data, as a USB stick was taken and also equipment which needed a couple of people to carry it out and drive it away.

If Rudy was found in possession of a small glass breaking hammer just days before the crime, then he is hardly going to use an oversized rock in full view of oncoming traffic at a busy time of evening.

The point Marasca makes about it being the mark of a serial killer and not an opportunistic burglar, is a reference to the sadistic nature of the crime. Whilst an interrupted criminal may well hit a witness, and quite brutally, they rarely resort to cold calculated torture, which marks this case as someone who knew Mez personally and wanted to victimise her.
A couple cell phones, a USB stick and a laptop need a couple people to carry it out and drive it away? LOL!

Ummm....as has been explained to you before, throwing a rock from the car park area gave easy and immediate access to an escape if anyone turned on a light, etc. Using a glass breaking tool would require climbing up and tapping the window up close. If someone reacted, he'd have to climb up that steep hill and then run. Simple logic. A burglar has his escape route planned...the easier and faster the better. And that was from the car park overlook directly across from the window.

Guede did know Meredith as well as he knew Amanda.
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Old 11th October 2017, 04:18 PM   #3046
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You must have a short memory. I provided one before, so please do a search.
I've heard this claim before. I'm not searching for anything. I provided a link to a picture of RS in a bathing suit. Both shoulders were shown. No "huge tattoo" seen.
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Old 11th October 2017, 04:19 PM   #3047
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No burglar would attract attention to themselves tossing a rock through a window.

Now a murderer with a hot crime scene and corpse on the other hand

How do PGP remember to breathe.
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Old 11th October 2017, 04:22 PM   #3048
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I've heard this claim before. I'm not searching for anything. I provided a link to a picture of RS in a bathing suit. Both shoulders were shown. No "huge tattoo" seen.
It's on his back and it's fairly good sized, like grapefruit sized. It's this character I guess: http://devilman.wikia.com/wiki/Akira_Fudo
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Old 11th October 2017, 04:52 PM   #3049
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Transporting a kitchen knife in her bag to the cottage...?

In any case, premeditation can be a matter of seconds.

Just going to the kitchen to grab a knife is premeditation if the intention is to kill.
Yes, you are right, going to the kitchen to get a knife to kill somebody is premeditation. But you have no evidence, none, that there was an intent to kill even by Rudy to kill Meredith.

Even if Amanda transported that kitchen knife to and from Raffaele's. A point that was debunked by Conti and Vecchiotti as well as the RIS, there is no evidence that it was brought for the purposes to kill. All I have ever heard is unproven speculation that it was brought for protection or as a prank.

This is my point. Speculation is not proof.

I think everything about that cooking knife is downright silly. From how it was collected to how it was tested to the idea that Amanda or anyone would carry it or intend it's use to kill Meredith.
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Old 11th October 2017, 05:40 PM   #3050
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
It's on his back and it's fairly good sized, like grapefruit sized. It's this character I guess: http://devilman.wikia.com/wiki/Akira_Fudo
It's on his left shoulder blade but it is not, as Vixen claimed, of "Darko" or "huge" or on his "shoulder". At least she got the tattoo part right. One out of 4 ain't bad.

From RS's book:
Quote:
I was asked about a Japanese manga tattoo covering much of my left shoulder blade—a present I gave myself after passing a brutal programming exam in 2004—

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Old 11th October 2017, 05:50 PM   #3051
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Transporting a kitchen knife in her bag to the cottage...?

In any case, premeditation can be a matter of seconds.

Just going to the kitchen to grab a knife is premeditation if the intention is to kill.
This is your problem. You rely on the prosecution's pure speculation. This was Mignini's attempt at getting the knife from RS's kitchen to the cottage. NO evidence at all was presented that she carried that kitchen knife, or any knife, in her bag... or anywhere else. In fact, the cloth bag itself is evidence that she did not as there were no cuts or nicks that a huge open bladed chef's knife would have made. To think Raff would have given her that huge knife to carry around for protection instead a flick knife is preposterous. But Mignini had to come up with something no matter how stupid it was. And it was stupid.

No, premeditation cannot be a "matter of seconds". Don't be silly.

Quote:
Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully and intentionally causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.
Grabbing a knife and then immediately killing someone is not premeditated.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 11th October 2017 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 11th October 2017, 06:06 PM   #3052
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Nonsense. I never said any such thing. I said:


No one becomes a preacher because of hypocrisy. I said many religious people are hypocrites. I never mentioned WHY people become clergy. You really do have a very bad habit of twisting what people say. You should work on that.
This is a typical Vixen-thing. Completely out of the blue she brings in a completely extraneous claim.... as if Stacyhs had attacked "preachers". Stacyhs had never got near that occupation, yet Vixen feels the need to troll the thread just to disrupt things.

As far as hypocrites and religion is concerned, Vixen should join a church because they can always use one more.
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Old 11th October 2017, 06:17 PM   #3053
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is your problem. You rely on the prosecution's pure speculation. This was Mignini's attempt at getting the knife from RS's kitchen to the cottage. NO evidence at all was presented that she carried that kitchen knife, or any knife, in her bag... or anywhere else. In fact, the cloth bag itself is evidence that she did not as there were no cuts or nicks that a huge open bladed chef's knife would have made. To think Raff would have given her that huge knife to carry around for protection instead a flick knife is preposterous. But Mignini had to come up with something no matter how stupid it was. And it was stupid.

No, premeditation cannot be a "matter of seconds". Don't be silly.

Grabbing a knife and then immediately killing someone is not premeditated.
From Blacks law Premeditated murder describes a murder that was planned in advance and was carried out willfully.

Seconds would be almost impossible to prove any kind of premeditation. But if someone left the room only to obtain a weapon for the purpose to kill someone that would qualify as premeditation. The problem is that the act would need to be clear headed. There has to be some planning involved.

The problem with the idea of premeditation in this case besides the fact that there is no reason to believe that knife was ever used for any purpose than to prepare food is that we really have no evidence of how the murder went down. There is speculation from everyone but that is not evidence. There certainly is no evidence of any planning.

Quote:
First Degree or Capital Murder
First-degree murder, or capital murder as it is often called, is the most serious form of murder. In most states, a first degree murder involves elements like deliberate planning, premeditation, or malice. Deliberate means that the defendant makes a clear-headed decision to kill the victim. Premeditation involves showing the defendant actually thought about the killing before it occurred.

The period of thought required to classify a murder as premeditated may be very brief. A killing with malice requires proof that the defendant did a harmful act without just cause or legal excuse. For example, if someone decided to kill a business rival who is attempting a corporate takeover by purchasing a gun and waiting for the victim in a deserted parking garage, then the shooting would have all the elements of first-degree murder.

If, on the other hand, business competitors got into a fight when the rival announced his intention to take over the other man's business, and the second man flew into a rage and hit the rival with it, causing his death, the killing would not be classified as a first-degree murder because the defendant did not plan or make the decision to kill in advance.
https://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/...ees.murder.htm
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Old 11th October 2017, 06:23 PM   #3054
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Here's a true story. My mother's first cousin's son drove 3 hours with his rifle to his ex-wife's place of business. He waited for at least an hour until she came out. As she walked to her car, he shot her dead. Pre-meditated? Absolutely. But he was only convicted of voluntary manslaughter and got 3 years in prison. Figure that one out. I can't.
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Old 11th October 2017, 06:37 PM   #3055
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Here's a true story. My mother's first cousin's son drove 3 hours with his rifle to his ex-wife's place of business. He waited for at least an hour until she came out. As she walked to her car, he shot her dead. Pre-meditated? Absolutely. But he was only convicted of voluntary manslaughter and got 3 years in prison. Figure that one out. I can't.
Was it plea bargained?
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Old 11th October 2017, 06:54 PM   #3056
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Was it plea bargained?
No. There was no doubt whatsoever that he had planned to do this. There was no need for a plea bargain. There was even CCTV video from the parking lot showing the murder.
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Old 11th October 2017, 06:57 PM   #3057
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
This is a typical Vixen-thing.
Quote:
Completely out of the blue she brings in a completely extraneous claim.... as if Stacyhs had attacked "preachers".
Stacyhs had never got near that occupation, yet Vixen feels the need to troll the thread just to disrupt things.

As far as hypocrites and religion is concerned, Vixen should join a church because they can always use one more.
This is why we question her on her claims without citations. She claims things as if they are facts when they are not.
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Old 11th October 2017, 07:21 PM   #3058
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No. There was no doubt whatsoever that he had planned to do this. There was no need for a plea bargain. There was even CCTV video from the parking lot showing the murder.
That is surprising. Was he charged with 1st degree murder and convicted by the jury on a lesser charge? Was the jury given that option? Sometimes, a lesser charge is made available and for a variety of reasons they can't or won't convict someone on a crime that might mean execution or life and the jury takes the easy way out.
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Old 11th October 2017, 09:40 PM   #3059
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The senior partner at the burgled law firm said he thought it was an inside job as the burglar alarm was disabled.

Now I've been the last to lock up at a previous workplace. When I failed to set the alarm properly on my way out, it triggered an auto phone call to one of the trustees, who had to make her way across town to turn the thing off.

The lawyers also said they believe the intruders were after legal data, as a USB stick was taken and also equipment which needed a couple of people to carry it out and drive it away.

If Rudy was found in possession of a small glass breaking hammer just days before the crime, then he is hardly going to use an oversized rock in full view of oncoming traffic at a busy time of evening.

The point Marasca makes about it being the mark of a serial killer and not an opportunistic burglar, is a reference to the sadistic nature of the crime. Whilst an interrupted criminal may well hit a witness, and quite brutally, they rarely resort to cold calculated torture, which marks this case as someone who knew Mez personally and wanted to victimise her.
But as has been pointed out, the alarm was not enabled so he didn't disable it. Just another bogus comment by you.

As many have pointed out, tossing a rock (and that was NOT an oversized rock, we've all seen it so you're not fooling anyone) was clearly the better way to break that window and it was 20:30 at night and not at all in "full view" of oncoming traffic. You'd have to be looking to have a chance of seeing anything.

A serial killer is one who repeatedly kills, typically using a similar MO for the crimes, and no such crimes had occurred in Perugia so the observation is without merit.

You continue to claim you're objective yet you continue to make comments that prove you are the complete opposite.
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Old 11th October 2017, 10:14 PM   #3060
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Originally Posted by Vixen
If Rudy was found in possession of a small glass breaking hammer just days before the crime, then he is hardly going to use an oversized rock in full view of oncoming traffic at a busy time of evening.
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
As many have pointed out, tossing a rock (and that was NOT an oversized rock, we've all seen it so you're not fooling anyone) was clearly the better way to break that window and it was 20:30 at night and not at all in "full view" of oncoming traffic. You'd have to be looking to have a chance of seeing anything.
Indeed. The way the road curves around to the east and north of the cottage, it is the deck which is in full view of traffic. Filomena's window is accessed from two-levels below road level, and the car-park for the cottage (at the level if the front door, an easy reach for a rock to be thrown through Filomena's window) is one level below the road. In the dark.

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Old 11th October 2017, 10:20 PM   #3061
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That is surprising. Was he charged with 1st degree murder and convicted by the jury on a lesser charge? Was the jury given that option? Sometimes, a lesser charge is made available and for a variety of reasons they can't or won't convict someone on a crime that might mean execution or life and the jury takes the easy way out.
I really don't know. It was over 30 years ago.
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Old 11th October 2017, 10:38 PM   #3062
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
But as has been pointed out, the alarm was not enabled so he didn't disable it. Just another bogus comment by you.

As many have pointed out, tossing a rock (and that was NOT an oversized rock, we've all seen it so you're not fooling anyone) was clearly the better way to break that window and it was 20:30 at night and not at all in "full view" of oncoming traffic. You'd have to be looking to have a chance of seeing anything.

A serial killer is one who repeatedly kills, typically using a similar MO for the crimes, and no such crimes had occurred in Perugia so the observation is without merit.

You continue to claim you're objective yet you continue to make comments that prove you are the complete opposite.
Come now. We all know it was a boulder!

Concerning the room being in full view of oncoming traffic, the oncoming traffic was on the right hand side of the street with the cottage on the left. The headlights would not have shone on the dark window but straight ahead.
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Old 12th October 2017, 03:41 AM   #3063
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A couple cell phones, a USB stick and a laptop need a couple people to carry it out and drive it away? LOL!

Ummm....as has been explained to you before, throwing a rock from the car park area gave easy and immediate access to an escape if anyone turned on a light, etc. Using a glass breaking tool would require climbing up and tapping the window up close. If someone reacted, he'd have to climb up that steep hill and then run. Simple logic. A burglar has his escape route planned...the easier and faster the better. And that was from the car park overlook directly across from the window.

Guede did know Meredith as well as he knew Amanda.
Don't be silly. Offices are deserted at night.
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Old 12th October 2017, 03:45 AM   #3064
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Come now. We all know it was a boulder!

Concerning the room being in full view of oncoming traffic, the oncoming traffic was on the right hand side of the street with the cottage on the left. The headlights would not have shone on the dark window but straight ahead.
It meets the definition.

Have a look at the car park CCTV nearby at San Antonio for that time (which is technically in the same road as Pergola).

You can see many many people coming and going, as they park their cars on a level overlooking the cottage.

In any case, as the judges point out, Guede had been to the cottage on three occasions so would have been aware of better and more discreet entry points than a steep 12'4" drop.
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Old 12th October 2017, 03:50 AM   #3065
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What a load of nonsense. This is a perfect example of taking a conclusion and trying to fit everything to it.

1) You resort to some alleged myth regarding the site of the cottage and therefore it would be attractive to those dabbling in the dark arts. Neither AK nor RS had any history of "dabbling in the dark arts". Why would either even now about this alleged "convent" myth in the first place?

2) What does "Darko" signify? Donnie Darko, a 2002 sci-fi film? Or Darko Miličić, the basketball player? That seems the more likely association with Guede, who fancied himself a great basketball player.

3) "Raff has a huge tatto of Darko across one of his shoulders." is a lie. Here is a pic of RS in a bathing suit. No such tattoo exist.
http://www.dagospia.com/img/foto/12-...nto-293234.jpg

4) The comic book you describe was still in its original packaging. As any collector knows, unopened comic books are worth more. Raff collected them. Collecting manga is not an indication of anything, much less of being violent.

5) RS admitted to having tried cocaine a few years before. He never said he took acid. He, like everyone in the Pergola cottage, smoked hash. His hair was tested for drugs just like Amanda. If they had found cocaine or acid, that would have been revealed by the prosecution in court. It wasn't.

6) "Extreme experiences" doesn't mean killing someone. Skydiving, bungee jumping, driving fast, mountain climbing, etc are also extreme experiences. You are reading something into it to fit your bias.

7)"Was Knox and Raff stalking her? They might have been. Both mention the blood make-up still showing on her chin in their police statements. Both admit they were high on drugs (hash)." Oh good lord. Amanda going to her own home and Raff joining her for lunch becomes "stalking" Meredith? Classic Vixen. Neither was "high on drugs" when they were having LUNCH at Amanda's place. Describing that Meredith still had traces of her costume on her face becomes something sinister. Again, typical Vixen. spin spin spin

8) Mignini did, in fact, claim the murder was connected to Satanism.


9). RS had no "fetishistic" knife collection. He had a small knife collection. Period. My daughter has a sword collection. She isn't "itching" to try them out by killing someone with them.

You are desperately twisting anything and everything to fit your own beliefs. It's rather pathetic when you bring in a tattoo that doesn't exist, a myth that RS and AK probably knew nothing about, Guede's password (CITATION?), and other such nonsense. When you have to resort to this kind of silliness, you've already lost the argument.

Would YOU pose with a self-professed satanist and notorious childkiller/sodomist/rapist and call him a friend?


Your heroine does.

If this picture doesn't turn your stomach...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Echols and Knox.jpg (51.7 KB, 2 views)
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Old 12th October 2017, 03:53 AM   #3066
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is your problem. You rely on the prosecution's pure speculation. This was Mignini's attempt at getting the knife from RS's kitchen to the cottage. NO evidence at all was presented that she carried that kitchen knife, or any knife, in her bag... or anywhere else. In fact, the cloth bag itself is evidence that she did not as there were no cuts or nicks that a huge open bladed chef's knife would have made. To think Raff would have given her that huge knife to carry around for protection instead a flick knife is preposterous. But Mignini had to come up with something no matter how stupid it was. And it was stupid.

No, premeditation cannot be a "matter of seconds". Don't be silly.



Grabbing a knife and then immediately killing someone is not premeditated.

You really are ignorant as to how evidence is assessed.
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:09 AM   #3067
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
This is a typical Vixen-thing. Completely out of the blue she brings in a completely extraneous claim.... as if Stacyhs had attacked "preachers". Stacyhs had never got near that occupation, yet Vixen feels the need to troll the thread just to disrupt things.

As far as hypocrites and religion is concerned, Vixen should join a church because they can always use one more.


Stacyhs said that people who enjoyed saying 'do as I say, but not do as I do' were attracted to the clergy. I simply pointed out, that hypocrisy probably wasn't the main aim.

I go to church on Sunday and on Christmas Day and Good Friday. Mainly because I love music and singing. We have violinists and guitarists. I usually go to the Finnish church in London to light a candle for loved ones who've died during the past year at around Halloween, as part of the annual service. They also have a Santa Lucia service at 'pikku Joulu' (Swedish tradition circa 8 December).

I've been invited to Westminster Abbey for the Reformation celebration this year.

I don't think I'm a hypocrite as I have never particularly been interested in Halloween parties, although my son is a great fan of them. Buys a new outfit every year, and even buys tickets for the events. Last year it was as the Joker and the year before, a vampire slayer. His outfit for this year arrived in the post t'other day. I haven't seen it yet.

I guess by your own definition you are an arch hypocrite.
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:12 AM   #3068
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
From Blacks law Premeditated murder describes a murder that was planned in advance and was carried out willfully.

Seconds would be almost impossible to prove any kind of premeditation. But if someone left the room only to obtain a weapon for the purpose to kill someone that would qualify as premeditation. The problem is that the act would need to be clear headed. There has to be some planning involved.

The problem with the idea of premeditation in this case besides the fact that there is no reason to believe that knife was ever used for any purpose than to prepare food is that we really have no evidence of how the murder went down. There is speculation from everyone but that is not evidence. There certainly is no evidence of any planning.
Think about it. Patrick sent Knox a message to not come in. She was soon on her way to chew Mez out, with Raff close behind...
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:26 AM   #3069
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Here's a true story. My mother's first cousin's son drove 3 hours with his rifle to his ex-wife's place of business. He waited for at least an hour until she came out. As she walked to her car, he shot her dead. Pre-meditated? Absolutely. But he was only convicted of voluntary manslaughter and got 3 years in prison. Figure that one out. I can't.
He would be your second cousin.

It's a strange anomaly in law that husbands/boyfriends killing their spouse often do get away with five year terms, if the women's 'chat' magazines are anything to go by.

I was contacted by a 'DNA relative' t'other day, from a DNA site. She turned out to be a 'pikku pikku serkku' second-second-cousin (or, cousin 3 times removed). We share great-great-grandparents on my grandfather's side. My great-grandfather ('Gustav Nummenpää' 1841- 1914) was a brother of her great-grandfather ('August' 1852 - 1919). It was great to see that particular family tree as I had never got back that far before on his side. The common g-g-grandparents are 'Gustaf Henriksson (Kustaa Heikinpoika), 1815 -97 and Fredrika Jakobsdotter (Riika Jaakontytär 1814 - 83). [They used Swedish for the records.]

No murders in my family that I know of.
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:31 AM   #3070
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Indeed. The way the road curves around to the east and north of the cottage, it is the deck which is in full view of traffic. Filomena's window is accessed from two-levels below road level, and the car-park for the cottage (at the level if the front door, an easy reach for a rock to be thrown through Filomena's window) is one level below the road. In the dark.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8486ea2b66.jpg
That's just one angle. Have a look at these excellent photos, here, which show the aspects from all angles, although the first set focuses on the CCTV cameras connected to the nearby car park:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...._on_the_night/

In the bottom picture here, you can see the car park does have a good view over the cottage.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index....hicle_was_on_/
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:34 AM   #3071
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stacyhs said that people who enjoyed saying 'do as I say, but not do as I do' were attracted to the clergy. I simply pointed out, that hypocrisy probably wasn't the main aim.

I go to church on Sunday and on Christmas Day and Good Friday. Mainly because I love music and singing. We have violinists and guitarists. I usually go to the Finnish church in London to light a candle for loved ones who've died during the past year at around Halloween, as part of the annual service. They also have a Santa Lucia service at 'pikku Joulu' (Swedish tradition circa 8 December).

I've been invited to Westminster Abbey for the Reformation celebration this year.

I don't think I'm a hypocrite as I have never particularly been interested in Halloween parties, although my son is a great fan of them. Buys a new outfit every year, and even buys tickets for the events. Last year it was as the Joker and the year before, a vampire slayer. His outfit for this year arrived in the post t'other day. I haven't seen it yet.

I guess by your own definition you are an arch hypocrite.


Please refrain from posting these large tracts of irrelevant (to the OP) personal information in this thread. Thank you.
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:35 AM   #3072
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
He would be your second cousin.

It's a strange anomaly in law that husbands/boyfriends killing their spouse often do get away with five year terms, if the women's 'chat' magazines are anything to go by.

I was contacted by a 'DNA relative' t'other from a DNA site. She turned out to be a 'pikku pikku serkku' second-second-cousin (or, cousin 3 times removed). We share great-great-grandparents on my grandfather's side. My great-grandfather ('Gustav Nummenpää' 1841- 1914) was a brother of her grandfather ('August' 1852 - 1919). It was great to see that particular family tree as I had never got back that far before on his side. The common g-g-grandparents are 'Gustaf Henriksson (Kustaa Heikinpoika), 1815 -97 and Fredrika Jakobsdotter (Riika Jaakontytär 1814 - 83). [They used Swedish for the records.]

No murders in my family that I know of.

Again, please refrain from posting large tracts of irrelevant (to the OP) information in this thread. Thanks.
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Old 12th October 2017, 04:45 AM   #3073
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It meets the definition.

Have a look at the car park CCTV nearby at San Antonio for that time (which is technically in the same road as Pergola).

You can see many many people coming and going, as they park their cars on a level overlooking the cottage.

In any case, as the judges point out, Guede had been to the cottage on three occasions so would have been aware of better and more discreet entry points than a steep 12'4" drop.

Yes...... where exactly were these "better and more discreet entry points"?

(When you give your answer, please consider a) iron bars over windows; b) heavy front doors locked with a multi-level mortice lock; and c) modern double-glazed windows and French doors, whose glass would be extremely difficult to break without specialist tools, and whose (locked) frames would be difficult to force or jemmy).

Over to you
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:04 AM   #3074
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Think about it. Patrick sent Knox a message to not come in. She was soon on her way to chew Mez out, with Raff close behind...
You've invented yet another motive.
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:08 AM   #3075
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
And.... "Heroine"?? Oh dear.
Every time Vixen posts this strawman her credibility goes down a notch.
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Old 12th October 2017, 06:27 AM   #3076
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That's just one angle. Have a look at these excellent photos, here, which show the aspects from all angles, although the first set focuses on the CCTV cameras connected to the nearby car park:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...._on_the_night/

In the bottom picture here, you can see the car park does have a good view over the cottage.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index....hicle_was_on_/
What you said was;

"...then he is hardly going to use an oversized rock in full view of oncoming traffic at a busy time of evening."

Traffic does NOT have a "full view", regardless of which direction it's going in. At 20:30 it is dark out and extremely difficult to see anything around that side of the house. And given it was the day after Halloween, it was, in fact, a very slow evening (which is precisely why the discos were closed) so less busy then usual. And, of course, all this ignores the fact that people are driving, not peering into peoples yards looking to see if someone is trying to break into a house.

What you're trying to do now is reverse engineer - you want to prove there are vantage points where one could see the cottage IF someone actually had a reason to be checking out the cottage. And in that vein I would argue the deck is more easily viewed and is better lighted by street lights. But burglars rely on the fact that people tend to be rather oblivious of their surroundings. That a point of entry can be seen does not automatically make it a less than acceptable point of entry. And besides, you are now talking about what was possible to be seen from a parking garage and not what oncoming traffic had a view of. Again, you are being anything but objective and, with this particular line of 'reasoning', your genuineness is taking a beating as well.
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Old 12th October 2017, 06:35 AM   #3077
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Indeed. The way the road curves around to the east and north of the cottage, it is the deck which is in full view of traffic. Filomena's window is accessed from two-levels below road level, and the car-park for the cottage (at the level if the front door, an easy reach for a rock to be thrown through Filomena's window) is one level below the road. In the dark.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8486ea2b66.jpg
At night, in the dark, it would be almost impossible to see what was happening as the house is below street level. And it takes about a second to break a window. Toss a rock through Filomena's window and then step into the shadows for maybe a few minutes tops. Then a 30 second climb in the dark and you are in. Easy.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:01 AM   #3078
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Don't be silly. Offices are deserted at night.
No. Just No. What a stupid claim. In my office, there could be anyone there at any time 24/7. Indeed, I have been there through the night.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:06 AM   #3079
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
What you said was;

"...then he is hardly going to use an oversized rock in full view of oncoming traffic at a busy time of evening."

Traffic does NOT have a "full view", regardless of which direction it's going in. At 20:30 it is dark out and extremely difficult to see anything around that side of the house. And given it was the day after Halloween, it was, in fact, a very slow evening (which is precisely why the discos were closed) so less busy then usual. And, of course, all this ignores the fact that people are driving, not peering into peoples yards looking to see if someone is trying to break into a house.

What you're trying to do now is reverse engineer - you want to prove there are vantage points where one could see the cottage IF someone actually had a reason to be checking out the cottage. And in that vein I would argue the deck is more easily viewed and is better lighted by street lights. But burglars rely on the fact that people tend to be rather oblivious of their surroundings. That a point of entry can be seen does not automatically make it a less than acceptable point of entry. And besides, you are now talking about what was possible to be seen from a parking garage and not what oncoming traffic had a view of. Again, you are being anything but objective and, with this particular line of 'reasoning', your genuineness is taking a beating as well.
Burglars break in through front doors in the middle of the afternoon in broad daylight. It takes only a moment or two to gain entry. So, It really is irrelevant whether one side is marginally better suited for not being noticed. It should be noted there is no doubt whatsoever that window was broken from the outside and nobody heard it break or saw who did it. It was demonstrably easy to break in through Filomena's window unnoticed. That was proven by the TV news team. There is no reason to believe whether the window was exposed or in the shadows that this would have prevented a burglar from entering through Filomena's window.
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Old 12th October 2017, 07:25 AM   #3080
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
At night, in the dark, it would be almost impossible to see what was happening as the house is below street level. And it takes about a second to break a window. Toss a rock through Filomena's window and then step into the shadows for maybe a few minutes tops. Then a 30 second climb in the dark and you are in. Easy.
Do you remember Kermit's powerpoints, available on Peter Quennell's TKMK? Six years ago, just before the first acquittal, he'd put together a powerpoint showing how impossible the climb in through Filomena's window was.

I was still getting my feet on this whole case. Yet just the year before I'd seen young men climb all over our house when we had our windows replaced - what was a sheer wall foe me turned out to have obvious climbing points, not obvious to me, as the guys took out and replaced windows, mainly without scaffolding.

I'd asked one of the guys which window he'd choose if he were interested in breaking in. He pointed to the smallest window, one facing the street. I asked, "Why not around back where there is no visibility?" He looked at me like I was an idiot, "Because that window is easy to get to, and I'd be in before anyone noticed."

It was not a matter of the search for the "easiest" way in. It was simply an assessment of one point of entry's success... why waste time studying the site when by that time you're in rifling the place?

Then another buddy of mine (yes, I once had two buddies!) who worked with the RCMP took a look at Kermit's powerpoint on the "impossibility of the breakin. He said that whoever Kermit was, Kermit was completely overthinking this. He advised Kermit to keep his day-job. Filomena's window was an obvious, easy point of entry.

So here we are, six years later, and Vixen is recycling long-since debunked PGP memes.

Indeed, Channel 5 put an end to this debate by actually getting someone to do what Kermit had said was impossible. That demonstration was so successful, the nutter had to resort to conspiratorializing the whole demonstration.....










Note this last pic taken during the day, and as Stacyhs said, note the direction of travel of cars, as well as how low the window is relative to the ground, as well as the obvious concealment below the window invisible to this photo, which is below that wooden fence.
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