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Tags artificial intelligence , consciousness , Edward Witten , Max Tegmark

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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:22 AM   #241
ProgrammingGodJordan
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Any intelligent responses w.r.t. to Bengio's paper?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:22 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Following from (1) and (2), quite literally, babies are good biological examples which can perhaps inspire the construction of artificial general intelligence.
I still have no idea what that means. The fact that you quoted the part I quoted to clarify itself to me doesn't help.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:26 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I still have no idea what that means. The fact that you quoted the part I quoted to clarify itself to me doesn't help.
What words don't you get?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:31 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I have it on good authority that you are a blathering silly human.

Put that in your sig and suck it.
Ok. Guess I have to defer to ye Gods.

*looks around for a convenient god*

All hail PGJ as our Higher Power! Blessed be His Synonyms.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:42 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Recall my earlier quote:



Following from (1) and (2), quite literally, babies are good biological examples which can perhaps inspire the construction of artificial general intelligence.

In particular, babies are intelligent agents, and we can use babies' behaviours as a non-trivial basis (a complex working example) that we can use to inspire the construction of smarter and smarter algorithms, that start out somewhat blank (as babies essentially do) and learn over time.
Babies eat (drink?), poo, cry, gurgle, and sleep.

That sounds like a good place to start with your AI.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:43 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Any intelligent responses w.r.t. to Bengio's paper?
Bengio's paper is one thing. You have already inserted your 'paper' in with contrasts highlighted presumably as points of contention. Imma go out on a limb and say you want to talk about your paper and drive up hits. No, thanks.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:43 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
What words don't you get?
The problem is not the words, which are quite innocent, but the random forms you put them in, which could cause severe brain damage. That's criminal.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:46 AM   #248
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Does your paper have a narrator? All papers should.

Minnesotabrant can give you some tips if you need them. He's also building a computer which sounds so powerful it'll probably go AI all on it's own. Terminator time.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:48 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
The problem is not the words, which are quite innocent, but the random forms you put them in, which could cause severe brain damage. That's criminal.
Commandment the first: Question not PGJ, your God, lest He repost and requote Himself, patiently for those of little brain.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:51 AM   #250
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Oh noes, I'm all a flutter, amidst and betwixt myself.

My little brain is spinning in a very non trivial way.

Believe me.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:53 AM   #251
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Are we allowed to kitten this thread yet?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:57 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
What words don't you get?
Do you have a memory problem? The issue isn't the words, but the word salad.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:09 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Do you have a memory problem? The issue isn't the words, but the word salad.
I aim to enhance myself.

What don't you get about the simple ordering of the words?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:09 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
I aim to enhance myself.
When do you plan on starting?

Quote:
What don't you get about the simple ordering of the words?
All of it. I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:15 AM   #255
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Silly human with little brain ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

Obviously.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:17 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
When do you plan on starting?
..when I get sensible feedback.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan
What don't you get about the simple ordering of the words?
All of it. I have no idea what you're talking about.
Unfortunately, I cannot currently reduce the topic beyond what I have done in prior replies or the OP.

Please consider:

(1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBxCHonP6Ro (clear programming tutorials)

(2) https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-learning (good machine learning tutorial)

(3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pmNdyxEGo (very good youtube deep q learning tutorial)

Last edited by ProgrammingGodJordan; 3rd October 2017 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:22 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
..when I get sensible feedback.



Unfortunately, I cannot currently reduce the topic beyond what I have done in prior replies or the OP.

Please consider:

(1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBxCHonP6Ro (clear programming tutorials)

(2) https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-learning (good machine learning tutorial)

(3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pmNdyxEGo (very good youtube deep q learning tutorial)
YouTube tutorials on installing Python and making games? My Lord, we Little BrainsTM parse you not.

Ah, my Lord edited His post as the query was composing itself. Great is Thy hindsight, oh Marvelous Scientist.
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Last edited by Thermal; 3rd October 2017 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:37 AM   #258
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How about something novel.
Like actually just explaining what you are blathering on about, instead of loads of fonts and random links.

Explain, expand, espouse, etc.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:40 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
YouTube tutorials on installing Python and making games? My Lord, we Little BrainsTM parse you not.

Ah, my Lord edited His post as the query was composing itself. Great is Thy hindsight, oh Marvelous Scientist.
The python tutorials are primarily about learning to program in python.

I don't detect any lessons up to the 56'th lesson in "thenewboston's" python series, that directly concerns game making.

Footnote:

Don't be quick to underestimate games though, as games are quite important in the realm of machine learning.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:45 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
How about something novel.
Like actually just explaining what you are blathering on about, instead of loads of fonts and random links.

Explain, expand, espouse, etc.
The OP was designed to explain stuff clearly.

I will have to do some more processing to compute whether a simpler explanation is feasible.

Unfortunately, the best I can do for now is point you to a prior quote:

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan
Unfortunately, I cannot currently reduce the topic beyond what I have done in prior replies or the OP.

Please consider:

(1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBxCHonP6Ro (clear programming tutorials)

(2) https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-learning (good machine learning tutorial)

(3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pmNdyxEGo (very good youtube deep q learning tutorial)
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:48 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
..when I get sensible feedback.
Well, there you have it. You've constructed an inassailable ivory tower: you won't improve until you get sensible feedback, but you don't accept feedback because you think you know best.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:48 AM   #262
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Mod Warning I have merged the Supermathematics and Artificial General Intelligence with the thread regarding Bengio's paper and also the earlier Thought Curvature thread, as they are all essentially on the same subject. Please stay on topic and refrain from personalising your posts.
Posted By:Agatha
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:50 AM   #263
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What's the difference between "supermathematics" and regular mathematics? PGJ uses the term in his title, but he doesn't define or discuss it anywhere.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:53 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
Mod Warning I have merged the Supermathematics and Artificial General Intelligence with the thread regarding Bengio's paper and also the earlier Thought Curvature thread, as they are all essentially on the same subject. Please stay on topic and refrain from personalising your posts.
Posted By:Agatha
Some crucial links in old OP are dead.

Please edit the old OP to include these new links where "Thought curvature" appears.

New replacement link:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ive_hypothesis
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:59 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What's the difference between "supermathematics" and regular mathematics? PGJ uses the term in his title, but he doesn't define or discuss it anywhere.
In reply 107, a standard WikiPedia link is clearly provided for the term supermathematics.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:02 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
What's wrong with the words in reply 9?
You make a valid point. Human babies, or indeed any living creature capable of learning from experience, are a viable source of inspiration for developing an AI that is itself capable of learning. Indeed, this is the central thesis of a thought provoking video that argues All Arnold Schwarzenegger Movies Are In The Same Terminator Universe

If that is the entirety of your point, then I think the thread has progressed as far as it can. If you have a point beyond that, what is it?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:04 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
I am unable to parse your statement.

Could you express it another way?
He is making fun of your ideas by referencing a physical reaction to particularity bad poetry described in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:07 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
You make a valid point. Human babies, or indeed any living creature capable of learning from experience, are a viable source of inspiration for developing an AI that is itself capable of learning. Indeed, this is the central thesis of a thought provoking video that argues All Arnold Schwarzenegger Movies Are In The Same Terminator Universe

If that is the entirety of your point, then I think the thread has progressed as far as it can. If you have a point beyond that, what is it?
The thread was merged, so you may have missed the new thread.

Here is the data from the new thread: https://jordanmicahbennett.github.io...-Intelligence/

In summary, the new thread deals with:





Footnote:

Take all the time you need to understand the above...

And also, babies and physics and machine learning, are regular considerations in not just fiction, but machine learning:

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post

Last edited by ProgrammingGodJordan; 3rd October 2017 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:07 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Some crucial links in old OP are dead.

Please edit the old OP to include these new links where "Thought curvature" appears.

New replacement link:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ive_hypothesis
Oh Great and Wondrous PGJ, parse thusly:

Nononononono. Not once has repeatedly reposting yourself benefited anyone, anywhere, for any reason. Just get on with it without the robot-speak and endless repetition and a discussion just might spring forth, as a lily in the desert.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:14 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
The thread was merged, so you may have missed the new thread.

Here is the data from the new thread: https://jordanmicahbennett.github.io...-Intelligence/

In summary, the new thread deals with:



Take all the time you need to understand...
Why are you bringing this to a skeptic's forum and not one focused on mathematics? I don't post descriptions of my adventures in homebrewing here, nor do I discuss the best ways to culture koji for home sake production. I certainly don't start a discussion on the best .NET methods to use for connecting to SFTP and FTPS servers and the security merits of the two protocols.

Why have you come HERE with this topic?

Have you tried discussing this on forums dedicated to mathematics?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:21 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Why are you bringing this to a skeptic's forum and not one focused on mathematics? I don't post descriptions of my adventures in homebrewing here, nor do I discuss the best ways to culture koji for home sake production. I certainly don't start a discussion on the best .NET methods to use for connecting to SFTP and FTPS servers and the security merits of the two protocols.

Why have you come HERE with this topic?
Your question may be rephrased as "Why post scientific matters in a 'Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology' forum?"

I will leave you to imagine the answer to the query above.

Originally Posted by halleyscomet
Have you tried discussing this on forums dedicated to mathematics?
Yes.

Discussions elsewhere, on Math forums too, have actually lead to some of the descriptions contained in the papers.

Also, discussions on forums that don't specialize in Math, have also helped to make the papers clearer and clearer. (A recent example on this very thread)
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:25 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Why are you bringing this to a skeptic's forum and not one focused on mathematics? I don't post descriptions of my adventures in homebrewing here, nor do I discuss the best ways to culture koji for home sake production. I certainly don't start a discussion on the best .NET methods to use for connecting to SFTP and FTPS servers and the security merits of the two protocols.

Why have you come HERE with this topic?

Have you tried discussing this on forums dedicated to mathematics?
Perhaps He wants His musings reviewed with a skeptical eye. He is certainly getting that. In spades.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:31 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Perhaps He wants His musings reviewed with a skeptical eye. He is certainly getting that. In spades.
Hardly any sensible feedback though...
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:36 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Hardly any sensible feedback though...
Please, elaborate. Give examples.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:39 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Hardly any sensible feedback though...
There ya go! Coherent wording, no repetition or linking the same things over and over. Keep up the good work and you'll engage serious discussion in no time!
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:40 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Please, elaborate. Give examples.
Don't encourage Him. We're making headway.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:43 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Your question may be rephrased as "Why post scientific matters in a 'Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology' forum?"

I will leave you to imagine the answer to the query above.
That was a legalistic dodge, not an answer. It does however tell me far more about your intentions here than I think you intended to reveal. Thank you for tipping your hand so blatantly and obviously.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:52 AM   #278
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It is beyond belief that this continues.

How anyone can think that a spamfest of copypasta convinces anyone of anything is incomprehensible.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:56 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
That was a legalistic dodge, not an answer. It does however tell me far more about your intentions here than I think you intended to reveal. Thank you for tipping your hand so blatantly and obviously.
I don't know what you are on about, but my intentions are not hidden; and I've gone "as far" as to include a "What is the goal?" section in a github url in the new OP.

Intention pretty clear there.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 11:10 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Any intelligent responses w.r.t. to Bengio's paper?
My take on it is that he's saying that you can create estimates of probability using Bayesian statistics for separate abstract elements. Then you can combine the estimates to form a stronger prediction about the environment for a given intelligent agent. In Bayesian statistics a diffuse prior only provides vague predictions and therefore isn't very useful. His suggestion is that you can combine diffuse priors to make a much stronger prediction.

He seems to be trying to solve the problem of an intelligent agent acting within an environment without sufficient information about the environment. This is an ongoing problem with AI and machine learning. He seems to see this as a pattern matching problem which is why he refers to recurrent neural networks.

None of that is so bad, but after that it pretty much falls apart. He suggests that this mechanism would be useful for awareness and consciousness. He shows misunderstanding of focus and seems to believe the language of thought theory. For example, if you did try to use his structure for awareness you would fall into the Frame problem. Maybe he isn't aware of it. His notion about focus is ludicrous since it could give you a random, divergent, or convergent process. This is a common problem with bottom up approaches. To date there has been no supporting evidence for a language of thought other than that it goes along with computational theory.

That's my opinion about it. In other words, he might well be able to make a contribution to Bayesian statistics but I don't see this as advancing AI in the least.

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