ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 26th August 2017, 05:49 PM   #121
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,068
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And the GOP has nightmares of another Katrian fiasco.
According to them, it was Obama's fault. This one will be too.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 05:54 PM   #122
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Next door to Florida Man, world's worst superhero.
Posts: 14,611
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
I wouldn't call them conservatives; that gives the idea that they were somehow democrats. Hugenberg's DNVP and Franz von Papen - who had been kicked out of the catholic Center Party - were antidemocratic authoritarians.


The one thing that the Orange Führer has failed to do to be a successful Nazi is to establish his own storm troopers. The relatively few men that turned up at Charlottesville don't cut it for that.
The important thing for Trump and the electorate to remember is that the institutions of government are built to transcend the administration with stewardship of said institutions. There is no percentage in in going all in with a particular steward, regardless of party when you have a career that will likely encompass both parties in charge.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 05:55 PM   #123
Skeptic Ginger
formerly skeptigirl
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 62,882
Trump has a catch 22 with Manafort and Flynn. If he pardons them to eliminate Mueller's leverage, that could easily be seen as obstruction of justice.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 06:17 PM   #124
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 36,643
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump has a catch 22 with Manafort and Flynn. If he pardons them to eliminate Mueller's leverage, that could easily be seen as obstruction of justice.
I don't think it's really Manafort and Flynn that are the not-so-subtle audience to this pardon. They'll stonewall any enquiry, anyway. It's everybody else up and down the food chain. This was stated by Schiff, yesterday. The minions who might have details of meetings and conversations now have a clear signal from da boss dat he likes people what stay loyal. Proteck da family and da family will proteck you.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

Help! We're being attacked by sea lions!
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 06:28 PM   #125
Elagabalus
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Has the President said anything about Harvey yet?
His Lordship has decreed that "Harvey" will now, henceforth, be called "Harvey Wall Banger"! End Communication.
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 06:33 PM   #126
Rincewind
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ankh Morpork/Plymouth, UK
Posts: 7,532
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
His Lordship has decreed that "Harvey" will now, henceforth, be called "Harvey Wall Banger"! End Communication.
OK - so not a giant rabbit that only he can see:
__________________
I used to think I was happy. then I met Magrat...
Rincewind is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 09:02 PM   #127
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,267
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Wasn't it Mark Twain who said, "As soon as anyone decides that they'll go into politics, that should automatically bar them from ever entering politics"?
There is also an old saying in the Catholic Church that the only men should be elected Pope are those who run out of the room if there name is mentioned as a potentiasl pope......
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 10:07 PM   #128
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,202
Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I haven't seen much of this and don't expect to. The racist right will continue to call the GOP home and non-racist Republicans will continue to insist that the racists are a minuscule, irrelevant fringe. I see no reason at all why this would change.
The GOP can insist all they want but the facts are that a sizeable chunk of the GOP is deplorable. Now that that is brazenly been demonstrated, it won't go away. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 10:10 PM   #129
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,202
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am predicting that within a year either Trump will be out of office, or the US will be in a upheavel that will make the Sixties look like a Sunday School picnic.
If he's still around a year from now, the mid-terms will be brutal, both politically and physically. I hope he's gone before that comes to pass.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 10:22 PM   #130
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,202
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Trump looks like a monstrous aberration that the US political system accidentally churned out of its own innards in a moment of malfunction occasioned by stress.

I don't think Trump's advent is the result of the US going all fascist. Nazi style institutions and machinery are not in place; nor do I believe that Trump has the skills or inclination to install them. If the GOP bosses were really intent on a fascist putsch, a mentally-disorganised buffoon like that is the last person they'd choose to conduct the operation.
I agree with your second paragraph but not the preceding one. Trump is no aberration; no, he is the end result of 3-4 decades of Nixon's Southern Strategy, which called for politics to be based on fear: fear of "others" (read: blacks at first which grew to include browns then all minorities). Fear of "the elites" (remember when being elite was to be admired - it was the GOP that changed connotation of elite). These days it's utter nonsense like fear of the "deep state" which, for god's sake means absolutely nothing. Or people like Jones and all the scam preachers like Bakker selling the coming doom.

No, he's no abberation and it's not happening in a "moment of malfunction". He's a logical result of a decades-long cancerous growth.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 10:44 PM   #131
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 22,641
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
No, he's no abberation and it's not happening in a "moment of malfunction". He's a logical result of a decades-long cancerous growth.
I agree, unfortunately he's not a one-off which will go away once the boil is lanced
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 04:40 AM   #132
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,546
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump has a catch 22 with Manafort and Flynn. If he pardons them to eliminate Mueller's leverage, that could easily be seen as obstruction of justice.
They also can no longer plead the fifth if they're pardoned.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 05:41 AM   #133
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Next door to Florida Man, world's worst superhero.
Posts: 14,611
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Has the President said anything about Harvey yet?
Yes, he's tweeted about it. He's been pleasuring himself in public over what a great job he's doing managing everything from Camp David. The VP actually tweeted something useful, giving people a website they could check to monitor the path of the storm.

The Hair did take a break from congratulating himself to commit yet another ethics violation but hocking David Clark's book and including a link for where it can be purchased.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 08:40 AM   #134
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Next door to Florida Man, world's worst superhero.
Posts: 14,611
Quote:
Wow - Now experts are calling #Harvey a once in 500 year flood! We have an all out effort going, and going well!
From one of dickhead's latest tweets. Let's imagine your house just washed away, you have a loved one(s) missing, no hope of power in the coming days, you place of work was destroyed. What precisely is going well for you? How the **** is this a good news story for you?
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 08:56 AM   #135
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,573
A historian assesses where we are, and where we're headed:
https://www.salon.com/2017/08/26/his...e-rule-of-law/
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 09:05 AM   #136
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Next door to Florida Man, world's worst superhero.
Posts: 14,611
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A historian assesses where we are, and where we're headed:
https://www.salon.com/2017/08/26/his...e-rule-of-law/
I'm not quite so worried as Snyder. Our institutions of government appear to be keeping The Hair in check. To abandon the rule of law, he needs the bureaucracy in the Executive and the two other branches of government to go along with him and so far that's not happening.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 11:59 AM   #137
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 14,561
[nevermind]
__________________
De-Putin-Nazify America!
...progress updates [1] [2] [3]...
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 01:04 PM   #138
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,267
And Trump now has his first major domestic crisis with the flooding in Houston reaching catastrophic proportions.
Could be worse then New Orleans since Houston is a MUCh bigger city...America's fourth largest in fact.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 04:06 PM   #139
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 13,335
Best Hurricane Ever!!
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 04:13 PM   #140
Tony Stark
Philosopher
 
Tony Stark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
Why does the orange turd seem excited about Harvey?
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 04:15 PM   #141
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,512
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm surprised he didn't boast it was a hurricane unlike any the world has ever seen before.

But seriously, nobody knew a storm could be this bad!
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 05:00 PM   #142
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 19,103
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I'm surprised he didn't boast it was a hurricane unlike any the world has ever seen before.

But seriously, nobody knew a storm could be this bad!

I'm surprised he didn't take credit for it.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 05:51 PM   #143
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 13,335
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I'm surprised he didn't boast it was a hurricane unlike any the world has ever seen before.
He already did.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 05:53 PM   #144
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,546
Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Why does the orange turd seem excited about Harvey?
It's times like this that his limited vocabulary and weird ticks are really noticable.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 06:02 PM   #145
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,546
Oh good lord!

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...42677461229569

He needs a padded room. What kind of demented individual would end that weather punditry with, "thanks!" Why didn't someone steal his phone and post actionable information instead?
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 06:40 PM   #146
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,068
For all of his twitter garbage, he hasn't flubbed this one. He actually appointed a qualified person to the head of FEMA and the job is getting done, unlike when Bush appointed a crony.
It would be nice if all of his appointments were filled based on qualifications as well.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 06:43 PM   #147
Babbylonian
Philosopher
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,842
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
For all of his twitter garbage, he hasn't flubbed this one. He actually appointed a qualified person to the head of FEMA and the job is getting done, unlike when Bush appointed a crony.
It would be nice if all of his appointments were filled based on qualifications as well.
They were, weren't they? The qualification sought was "hatred of the department to be managed." In other words, the beast knocked it out of the park with its picks.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 06:44 PM   #148
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,068
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
They were, weren't they? The qualification sought was "hatred of the department to be managed." In other words, the beast knocked it out of the park with its picks.
That's true. The FEMA head is an exception to Trump's rule on that.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 07:19 PM   #149
Civet
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,105
I swore a while back that I'd give Trump credit whenever he got something right. He appears to be Presidenting adequately with regard to the Harvey situation. He gets an "exceeds expectations".
Civet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 07:35 PM   #150
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 18,917
Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I swore a while back that I'd give Trump credit whenever he got something right. He appears to be Presidenting adequately with regard to the Harvey situation. He gets an "exceeds expectations".
And to think he just did this a few weeks ago.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-res...192411092.html

Quote:
Donald Trump signed away Obama-era flood standards just weeks before Hurricane Harvey hit Texas in a bid to get infrastructure projects approved more quickly.

The rule signed by former president Barack Obama in 2015 had not yet come into effect but aimed to make infrastructure more resilient to the effects of climate change, such as rising sea levels and flooding.
It will give him more opportunities to President adequately.
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 07:39 PM   #151
Skeptic Ginger
formerly skeptigirl
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 62,882
To summarize: Trump has Obama to thank for repairing GW's damage to FEMA.

And his and the GOP legislators' cronies get to reap the benefit of infrastructure investment with no restrictions on building in flood plains. Buyer of said infrastructure beware.

(Links posted in the Harvey thread.)
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 10:47 PM   #152
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 17,428
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Trump looks like a monstrous aberration that the US political system accidentally churned out of its own innards in a moment of malfunction occasioned by stress.
Trump's advent is less of a "malfunction" than you posit here.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I don't think Trump's advent is the result of the US going all fascist. Nazi style institutions and machinery are not in place; nor do I believe that Trump has the skills or inclination to install them. If the GOP bosses were really intent on a fascist putsch, a mentally-disorganised buffoon like that is the last person they'd choose to conduct the operation.
I don't think the GOP bosses are intent on going fascist. But thus far, they've been playing the part of Von Papen, Brüning and Hugenberg in that they enabled a fascist rising to power. I don't think it's a safe bet that the GOP Congresscritters would not pass the equivalent of an Enabling Act, because after all, their party would still be in power.

I agree, though, with your diagnosis of "mentally disorganized". Thus far, at least, Trump doesn't seem to cut it to pull off a fascist putsch. Hitler's consolidation of power didn't happen overnight either, but took some one-and-a-half to two years, and was certainly not planned in advance, but he knew how to seize the opportunities that presented themselves.

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The important thing for Trump and the electorate to remember is that the institutions of government are built to transcend the administration with stewardship of said institutions. There is no percentage in in going all in with a particular steward, regardless of party when you have a career that will likely encompass both parties in charge.
I disagree here. The American system offers much better opportunities than that of other countries to radically change the course of the ship of state.

Let's take the UK as a counterexample. When a new UK government comes in, the PM makes about 30 appointments of senior and junior ministers - political posts - and that's it. All the civil servants remain in place and carry on doing what they always did. The BBC made an excellent documentary on this back in the 1980s, called "Yes Minister". The Sir Humphreys serve for decades on end, outlast half a dozen PMs and ministers and guarantee a continuity in government.

By contrast, when a new US president comes in, he appoints around 4,000 people (soure: presidentialtransition.org). Of those, around 1,200 require Senate approval, but really, do you think that the Senate can adequately vet them all, and not just the dozen or so cabinet positions? And those other 2,800 appointees are not vetted at all. The US president, more than any government leader in the democratic world, can change the senior staff and thus the mission and activities of not just departments, but also agencies in those departments.

To the average European reader, the idea that the head of FEMA would be a political post that is appointed by every president anew is ludicrous; the idea that the head of the (federal) police, the FBI, would be a political post likewise. AFAIK, all over Europe and in other democratic countries, the same applies as in the UK: only a few dozen ministers are appointed by a new government, and the rest, the civil servants, are simply career professionals who remain at their post and outlast governments.
__________________
Founder of the group "The Truth about Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu aka Mother Teresa"

"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2017, 01:51 AM   #153
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 15,360
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Trump's advent is less of a "malfunction" than you posit here.


I don't think the GOP bosses are intent on going fascist. But thus far, they've been playing the part of Von Papen, Brüning and Hugenberg in that they enabled a fascist rising to power. I don't think it's a safe bet that the GOP Congresscritters would not pass the equivalent of an Enabling Act, because after all, their party would still be in power.

I agree, though, with your diagnosis of "mentally disorganized". Thus far, at least, Trump doesn't seem to cut it to pull off a fascist putsch. Hitler's consolidation of power didn't happen overnight either, but took some one-and-a-half to two years, and was certainly not planned in advance, but he knew how to seize the opportunities that presented themselves.


I disagree here. The American system offers much better opportunities than that of other countries to radically change the course of the ship of state.

Let's take the UK as a counterexample. When a new UK government comes in, the PM makes about 30 appointments of senior and junior ministers - political posts - and that's it. All the civil servants remain in place and carry on doing what they always did. The BBC made an excellent documentary on this back in the 1980s, called "Yes Minister". The Sir Humphreys serve for decades on end, outlast half a dozen PMs and ministers and guarantee a continuity in government.

By contrast, when a new US president comes in, he appoints around 4,000 people (soure: presidentialtransition.org). Of those, around 1,200 require Senate approval, but really, do you think that the Senate can adequately vet them all, and not just the dozen or so cabinet positions? And those other 2,800 appointees are not vetted at all. The US president, more than any government leader in the democratic world, can change the senior staff and thus the mission and activities of not just departments, but also agencies in those departments.

To the average European reader, the idea that the head of FEMA would be a political post that is appointed by every president anew is ludicrous; the idea that the head of the (federal) police, the FBI, would be a political post likewise. AFAIK, all over Europe and in other democratic countries, the same applies as in the UK: only a few dozen ministers are appointed by a new government, and the rest, the civil servants, are simply career professionals who remain at their post and outlast governments.
Good post. And Trump folks still rail against the "Deep state" like it's some kind of conspiracy, and not an organizational fact of life.
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2017, 03:24 AM   #154
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 10,477
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Trump looks like a monstrous aberration that the US political system accidentally churned out of its own innards in a moment of malfunction occasioned by stress.

I don't think Trump's advent is the result of the US going all fascist. Nazi style institutions and machinery are not in place; nor do I believe that Trump has the skills or inclination to install them. If the GOP bosses were really intent on a fascist putsch, a mentally-disorganised buffoon like that is the last person they'd choose to conduct the operation.
US is nowhere near going fascist. The democracy is in place, the checks and balances are functioning and there is no indication Trump has anywhere near the support necessary to pull something like that off. An attempted putch by the Republicans is the wet dream of a fanatic Democrat party loyalist (i.e. a large portion of Democratic Underground), because it would essentially purge the Republican party and it would go the way of the Whigs in short order.

That said, Trump is normalizing behavior and actions that were unthinkable just two years ago. Whether by design or accident, he is setting the stage for what could eventually amount to a populist takeover. The damage thus far is reversable, most easily with an massive landslide for Democrats in 2018, followed by a either bipartizan impeachment or a complete sidelining of the presidency until another such landslide in 2020.

Barring another 9/11 this looks plausible. If Harvey will do to Trump what Katrina did to Bush it may even be inevitable.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2017, 04:32 AM   #155
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,512
Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I swore a while back that I'd give Trump credit whenever he got something right. He appears to be Presidenting adequately with regard to the Harvey situation. He gets an "exceeds expectations".
Agree.

The partisans and ideologues will continue to nitpick and find fault no matter what he does.

I still think it weakens their case, and they should keep their powder dry for the numerous real outrages that come along on a daily basis.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2017, 05:25 AM   #156
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Next door to Florida Man, world's worst superhero.
Posts: 14,611
Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I swore a while back that I'd give Trump credit whenever he got something right. He appears to be Presidenting adequately with regard to the Harvey situation. He gets an "exceeds expectations".
His behavior thus far for this crisis has not been exemplary. He's pretty much done his normal self aggrandizing. None of high tweets contained useful information like his VP and FEMA director's did. All he's done s gush about what a great job his administration is doing.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2017, 05:32 AM   #157
Armitage72
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,665
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
If you're a General who wants to run a military police state, its wise to have a pocket Hitler under your control to act as a puppet.

Speaking of military police...

Trump to lift military gear ban for local police

Quote:
The Trump administration will unveil a new plan Monday morning to roll back limits on a controversial program that provides local law enforcement agencies with surplus military gear, marking the end of a policy implemented during the Obama administration.
President Barack Obama issued an executive order in 2015 prohibiting the transfer of a host of equipment, including armored vehicles, grenade launchers, high-caliber weapons and camouflage uniforms following controversy over the "militarization" of the police response to unrest in Ferguson, Missouri.
"We've seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there's an occupying force as opposed to a force that's part of the community that's protecting them and serving them," Obama said at the time. "It can alienate and intimidate local residents and send the wrong message."

President Donald Trump is expected to sign a new executive order Monday morning and Attorney General Jeff Sessions will address the policy change during a speech at the annual conference of the Fraternal Order of Police in Nashville, Tennessee, on Monday.

President Obama did it, so it obviously has to go. The police need grenade launchers and APCs. How else can they do their jobs?
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2017, 05:47 AM   #158
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,512
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
His behavior thus far for this crisis has not been exemplary. He's pretty much done his normal self aggrandizing. None of high tweets contained useful information like his VP and FEMA director's did. All he's done s gush about what a great job his administration is doing.
It's all consistent with narcissism and a profound lack of historical perspective.

Harvey is bad. But...

Katrina?

Andrew?

Galveston?

No-name from the 1930's that killed thousands south of Lake Okeechobee in FL?

Not diminishing the "historic" flooding in Texas at all. But for "historic" to have any meaning requires some sense of history.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 28th August 2017 at 05:53 AM.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2017, 07:46 AM   #159
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,484
Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Why does the orange turd seem excited about Harvey?
He's a narcissist. As far as he's concerned, we only really exist for his entertainment and benefit. He's not thinking about the human devastation. He's not thinking about the economic damage. He's not thinking about the lives lost or the hard slog ahead to help people recover.

He's thinking about getting to watch a really exciting disaster movie, complete with months of news clip length sob stories of poor people suffering. Remember, as a proponent of the Prosperity Gospel, Trump's religion, such as it is, depicts the poor as morally inferior, judged by God for their failings. In his faith, such as it is, the people too poor to get out of the storm's way deserve to suffer anyway.

He's excited because the disaster will keep him entertained.
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2017, 08:08 AM   #160
Armitage72
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,665
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
He's a narcissist. As far as he's concerned, we only really exist for his entertainment and benefit. He's not thinking about the human devastation. He's not thinking about the economic damage. He's not thinking about the lives lost or the hard slog ahead to help people recover.


You know he'll try to make any significant statement about himself. If he takes it as far as he is likely to, I'm really hoping we get someone with a new version of Anderson Cooper ripping into Mary Landrieu during Katrina.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:04 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.