ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Closed Thread
Old 5th September 2017, 01:18 PM   #321
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 19,202
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
This is another sad chapter in American history. Sending 800,000 people back to whatever country they're not even from comes from the same hateful, ignorant crap that gave us the trail of tears, the Japanese internment, slavery, all of it.
White males rule this country again. Not its people.

I will not stand or acknowledge the flag in any way until this monster is voted out, impeached, or dead and buried. No.
I don't agree with getting rid of DACA but to be accurate these are people who were born somewhere else and were brought to the USA before they were 18. Most have no remembrance of the home country, but they are from somewhere else.
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 01:25 PM   #322
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 40,317
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
I don't agree with getting rid of DACA but to be accurate these are people who were born somewhere else and were brought to the USA before they were 18. Most have no remembrance of the home country, but they are from somewhere else.
before 16. And at least they are getting back to real conservatives and not RINO's like that lefty bastard Reagan.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 01:40 PM   #323
Mumbles
Illuminator
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,762
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
before 16. And at least they are getting back to real conservatives and not RINO's like that lefty bastard Reagan.
One thing that never stops amazing me - he added a nice, 6-month deadline. If congresspeople don't want people screaming at them everywhere they go, this is going to become a top priority, right behind keeping the lights on, planes in the sky, disaster relief (and looks like this'll be major).

Obama's first two years consisted of Lilly Bedletter, rescuing the economy, and then a grueling process to reform the health care system, which he claimed to be a priority. In other words, he structured everything, and tried to get his priorities through knowing that some of them would take a long time. Trump is simply doing everything possible to get in his own way.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 02:41 PM   #324
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,208
Quote:
Haley said that other countries are so worried about keeping the nuclear deal intact that they are willing to look past Iran's human rights violations, its missile tests and other misdeeds.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...i-haley-242331

A news article that goes into more depth about what Haley said but it simply reinforces what's become apparent: Trump is likely not going to certify that Iran is following the agreement. It's not because there's evidence of them violating the agreement but simply because they want to withdraw from it, since it's supposedly not tough enough on Iran's "human rights violations" or missile tests, without conceding that Iran actually has upheld its obligations.

It's like when the US, together with the UK, concluded on their own that Iraq really was hiding countless weapons of mass destruction despite the complete lack of evidence and ignoring expert opinions. They knew, or at least should've known, that Iraq didn't really have any WMD but that was inconsequential.

Of course people actually trusted the Bush administration somewhat when they made the case for war. No reasonable individual would ever trust Trump or anyone that claims to speak for him. In terms of trust, reliability, honesty and consistency America is becoming more and more like Russia.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner

Last edited by Arcade22; 5th September 2017 at 02:42 PM.
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 02:49 PM   #325
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 15,959
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...i-haley-242331

A news article that goes into more depth about what Haley said but it simply reinforces what's become apparent: Trump is likely not going to certify that Iran is following the agreement. It's not because there's evidence of them violating the agreement but simply because they want to withdraw from it, since it's supposedly not tough enough on Iran's "human rights violations" or missile tests, without conceding that Iran actually has upheld its obligations.

It's like when the US, together with the UK, concluded on their own that Iraq really was hiding countless weapons of mass destruction despite the complete lack of evidence and ignoring expert opinions. They knew, or at least should've known, that Iraq didn't really have any WMD but that was inconsequential.

Of course people actually trusted the Bush administration somewhat when they made the case for war. No reasonable individual would ever trust Trump or anyone that claims to speak for him. In terms of trust, reliability, honesty and consistency America is becoming more and more like Russia.
Iraq was slightly different. For some reason, Saddam Hussein seemed to be trying to convince people that he didn't have enough WMDs for use, but that he was working to get them (it seems that he wasn't). This was not a good idea.

Even so, there was enough evidence that he wasn't working on WMDs but I'm willing to think that Bush and Blair convinced themselves that there was.

That is different from Trump, where truth has no place, except by coincidence.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 02:53 PM   #326
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13,711
Trump's cancellation of the DACA program affects me in a deeply painful, emotional way more than almost any of the other despicable things he has done. I think it is because, even though I was born in the USA to parents born in the USA, I can closely empathize with the many individuals whose lives will now be turned upside down. Brought in by their parents with no say in the matter, but who have gone on to have their lives, their friends, their schooling, everything in their lives embedded in America. Hundred of thousands of individual human lives now turned upside down, sent away to places they hardly know (if that) because of one nasty troll's whim based (as far as I can tell) on no more than his desire to overturn everything Obama put into place. Or perhaps a whim originating from Trump's other favorite motivation: spite. Not revenge, because what has anyone in the DACA problem ever done to him. No, just mean-spirited spite.

I can't even see this as the result of a cynical political calculation- if Trump did nothing in regard to DACA would that alienate his base? I doubt it- he is making big shows about undocumented immigration in all other ways- would just down-playing/ignoring the "Dreamers" cause any significant number of his supporters turn against him?

I can't say I am surprised. I have seen no evidence that Trump has any empathy for anyone else, or that Trump sees anyone else in the world except as a nameless supporting player or extra in what is the only thing of importance in his world: the story of Donald Trump. And of course Trump is too busy tweeting insults at 2 in the morning to have any time to dream.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 02:59 PM   #327
The_Animus
Master Poster
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,651
The whole ending DACA thing seems to make sense as political theater for the base but doesn't seem to make much sense from either a moral or economic viewpoint.

1. Moral - The standard argument about how they were brought here as kids and we can't hold children accountable for their parents actions. That for most of them this is all they know and is more their home country to them than where they were actually born.

2. Economically - Why would you educated these people, give them grants to encourage higher education, then kick them out so all that knowledge and skills they gained can be used to compete against America instead of working for America. Plus from what I see and hear, there are lots of jobs and not enough people to fill them.
__________________
Straw Man, Ad Hominem, Moving the Goalposts, and a massive post count are all good indicators that a poster is intellectually dishonest and not interested in real discussion.

Feeding trolls only makes them stronger, yet it is so hard to refrain.
The_Animus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 03:02 PM   #328
Civet
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,235
As usual when I hear of Trump making what seems like a bad move to me, I'd be happy to hear from any of the forum conservatives who'd like to defend it.
Civet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 03:15 PM   #329
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 21,297
Originally Posted by Civet View Post
As usual when I hear of Trump making what seems like a bad move to me, I'd be happy to hear from any of the forum conservatives who'd like to defend it.
Don't hold your breath.
__________________
This space for rent.
In conservative heads!
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 03:17 PM   #330
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 21,297
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
I don't agree with getting rid of DACA but to be accurate these are people who were born somewhere else and were brought to the USA before they were 18. Most have no remembrance of the home country, but they are from somewhere else.
Their formative years were here.
__________________
This space for rent.
In conservative heads!
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 03:24 PM   #331
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,659
Originally Posted by Civet View Post
As usual when I hear of Trump making what seems like a bad move to me, I'd be happy to hear from any of the forum conservatives who'd like to defend it.
I won't defend it - I think it's both mean and unnecessary at the same time.

Overall, people are an asset, not a liability. These folks pose virtually no risk to the US, and should have a clear path to citizenship.

At best, one can point out that President Obama took the easy way out. He could have fought for legislation to pass the Dreamer Act in some quasi-permanent form. Instead, he chose to rule by edict. The downside is how easy it is to counter an Executive Order with another Executive Order.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 03:27 PM   #332
Roger Ramjets
Illuminator
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
The whole ending DACA thing seems to make sense as political theater for the base but doesn't seem to make much sense from either a moral or economic viewpoint.
Since when have morality and economics had anything to do with winning?
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 03:50 PM   #333
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 63,803
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
....

At best, one can point out that President Obama took the easy way out. He could have fought for legislation to pass the Dreamer Act in some quasi-permanent form. Instead, he chose to rule by edict. The downside is how easy it is to counter an Executive Order with another Executive Order.
You do recall McConnell saying his goal was to prevent Obama's reelection, right? That the Publickers block legislation rather than let Obama get credit for anything of importance, right? Only in those first two years when the ACA was passed did Obama have any chance of getting legislation passed in Congress.

There was an immigration bill passed in the Senate and McConnell refused to let it come up in the House for a vote.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 04:03 PM   #334
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 21,297
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
At best, one can point out that President Obama took the easy way out. He could have fought for legislation to pass the Dreamer Act in some quasi-permanent form. Instead, he chose to rule by edict. The downside is how easy it is to counter an Executive Order with another Executive Order.

No sir. You do not get to put this on Obama. This was your Republican congress.

PERIOD.

Own it.
__________________
This space for rent.
In conservative heads!
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 04:08 PM   #335
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 19,202
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Their formative years were here.
Okay!? Doesn't change the fact they were born elsewhere.

Please don't confuse this for being anti-DACA. This is just being accurate. There's enough inaccuracy on the other side.
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 04:09 PM   #336
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 19,202
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
At best, one can point out that President Obama took the easy way out. He could have fought for legislation to pass the Dreamer Act in some quasi-permanent form. Instead, he chose to rule by edict. The downside is how easy it is to counter an Executive Order with another Executive Order.
Really you can say that with a straight face? That Congress was not going to pass anything supported by Obama and they said so numerous times.
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 04:10 PM   #337
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 14,128
Trump's DACA move is surprisingly clever. The sixth month deferment means that whatever happens, Congress will get the blame down the road. Trump, meanwhile, gets the credit from his true believers right away.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 04:10 PM   #338
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 19,202
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Trump's DACA move is surprisingly clever. The sixth month deferment means that whatever happens, Congress will get the blame down the road. Trump, meanwhile, gets the credit from his true believers right away.
And he 'loves' the people he's going to deport!
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 04:29 PM   #339
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 21,297
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Okay!? Doesn't change the fact they were born elsewhere.

Please don't confuse this for being anti-DACA. This is just being accurate. There's enough inaccuracy on the other side.
Fair enough. My apologies.
__________________
This space for rent.
In conservative heads!
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 05:02 PM   #340
Lurch
Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 199
You poor people to the south of the 49th. You've really brought into undeniable existence, and hoisted to the top position, The Ugly American. For realz. What a foolish shot in the collective foot. Heave that nation-wrecking tub o' guts the hell outta the White House! Pronto!
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 05:10 PM   #341
Polaris
Penultimate Amazing
 
Polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,045
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
And he 'loves' the people he's going to deport!
The same way God loves all those people he's going to torture for eternity if they don't grovel at his feet (but only in the right way).
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar

"Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk.
Polaris is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 05:12 PM   #342
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kalevala
Posts: 11,413
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The only thing that I find interesting is his pathology of thinking that whatever brainfart he is having is important enough to share. What concern is it who the Finnish leader picks? You invite the guy to take one more question? Shut up and let him take one more question.

Maybe he was upset because the walnut from Klan Country Weekly didn't get to ask any questions.
The bigger news is that he thought Finland was a great buddy of Russia.

Wanted to do a deal on fighter planes.

Sauli Niinisto looked at him like he was nuts.

No deal, chum.

Trump probably thought Finland was in Russia.
__________________
Hyvää itsenäisyyspäivä
100 years Suomi
Happy Independence Day, Finland
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 05:19 PM   #343
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kalevala
Posts: 11,413
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Trump's cancellation of the DACA program affects me in a deeply painful, emotional way more than almost any of the other despicable things he has done. I think it is because, even though I was born in the USA to parents born in the USA, I can closely empathize with the many individuals whose lives will now be turned upside down. Brought in by their parents with no say in the matter, but who have gone on to have their lives, their friends, their schooling, everything in their lives embedded in America. Hundred of thousands of individual human lives now turned upside down, sent away to places they hardly know (if that) because of one nasty troll's whim based (as far as I can tell) on no more than his desire to overturn everything Obama put into place. Or perhaps a whim originating from Trump's other favorite motivation: spite. Not revenge, because what has anyone in the DACA problem ever done to him. No, just mean-spirited spite.

I can't even see this as the result of a cynical political calculation- if Trump did nothing in regard to DACA would that alienate his base? I doubt it- he is making big shows about undocumented immigration in all other ways- would just down-playing/ignoring the "Dreamers" cause any significant number of his supporters turn against him?

I can't say I am surprised. I have seen no evidence that Trump has any empathy for anyone else, or that Trump sees anyone else in the world except as a nameless supporting player or extra in what is the only thing of importance in his world: the story of Donald Trump. And of course Trump is too busy tweeting insults at 2 in the morning to have any time to dream.
There was a programme on UK TV about detainees at Brook House who were due to be deported. Some were there for two years or more.

They were under the most horrific conditions. But what really made me gasp, was when the BBC Panorama undercover reporter did a follow up of some of the detainees he came across, now kicked out of the UK.

They were now living in beautiful sunshine, lovely flora, palms swaying in the breeze, drinking tea on the veranda.

What? Why would you want to even stay in a rainy foggy clime where everybody wears grey or navy and race around at breakneck speed.

Are they crazy?
__________________
Hyvää itsenäisyyspäivä
100 years Suomi
Happy Independence Day, Finland
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 05:28 PM   #344
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 63,803
Trump took $17 million in insurance for damage few remember
Quote:
Donald Trump pocketed some of a $17 million insurance payment in 2005 for hurricane damage to Mar-a-Lago, his private club in Palm Beach, but few can remember much damage...

In a deposition in an unrelated civil lawsuit, Trump said he got the cash from a "very good insurance policy" and cited ongoing work to the historic home.

"Landscaping, roofing, walls, painting, leaks, artwork in the — you know, the great tapestries, tiles, Spanish tiles, the beach, the erosion," he said of the storm damage. "It's still not what it was."
Sounds like a lot of inflated claims for the value of crap like Trump's oil portrait of himself. All that stuff no doubt has inflated values in his insurance schemes. It's clear he profits off of storm damage.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 5th September 2017 at 07:22 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 06:16 PM   #345
Delphic Oracle
Master Poster
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,177
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I won't defend it - I think it's both mean and unnecessary at the same time.

Overall, people are an asset, not a liability. These folks pose virtually no risk to the US, and should have a clear path to citizenship.

At best, one can point out that President Obama took the easy way out. He could have fought for legislation to pass the Dreamer Act in some quasi-permanent form. Instead, he chose to rule by edict. The downside is how easy it is to counter an Executive Order with another Executive Order.
United States Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchaper II, Part V is full of examples of how the law allows for "adjustments" to be made in the status of individuals who meet various criteria. What part of DACA do you think is not supported by a law (which a Democratic Congress passed and a Republican President signed)?
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 06:22 PM   #346
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Next door to Florida Man, world's worst superhero.
Posts: 14,942
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Trump's DACA move is surprisingly clever. The sixth month deferment means that whatever happens, Congress will get the blame down the road. Trump, meanwhile, gets the credit from his true believers right away.
I think just the opposite. The victory here goes to Congress. If Congress fails, Trump ended the program and he takes it in the shorts for getting rid of something most of the electorate approves of. If Congress succeeds The Hair gets no credible claim for the win. He told Congress to fix it and washed his hands like a Roman governor ordering a Jew nailed to a tree.

The other side of abandoning all responsibly is abandoning all chances for credit. This was one area where there was room to work with Democrats and get a legislative win but he blew that chance.
Craig4 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 06:22 PM   #347
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,659
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
...Publickers...
That's where I stopped reading.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 06:25 PM   #348
Steve
Illuminator
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,078
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I think just the opposite. The victory here goes to Congress. If Congress fails, Trump ended the program and he takes it in the shorts for getting rid of something most of the electorate approves of. If Congress succeeds The Hair gets no credible claim for the win. He told Congress to fix it and washed his hands like a Roman governor ordering a Jew nailed to a tree.

The other side of abandoning all responsibly is abandoning all chances for credit. This was one area where there was room to work with Democrats and get a legislative win but he blew that chance.
You should pay more attention to how Trump works.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 06:27 PM   #349
Delphic Oracle
Master Poster
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,177
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I think just the opposite. The victory here goes to Congress. If Congress fails, Trump ended the program and he takes it in the shorts for getting rid of something most of the electorate approves of. If Congress succeeds The Hair gets no credible claim for the win. He told Congress to fix it and washed his hands like a Roman governor ordering a Jew nailed to a tree.

The other side of abandoning all responsibly is abandoning all chances for credit. This was one area where there was room to work with Democrats and get a legislative win but he blew that chance.
Congress already fixed it.

26 years ago.

The A.G. can make adjustments in cases where certain criteria are met. DACA is a memorandum that tells the A.G. to use that discretion broadly, to seek out and find deportation proceedings where deferred action (spelled out in the law) would apply and...apply it.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 06:30 PM   #350
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 63,803
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
That's where I stopped reading.
You do know the GOP elected the name-caller-in-chief as POTUS, right. Do you also stop reading anything out of Trump's mouth when he calls people crooked and lying?

I think you need to step off that high horse and address the facts in this case. Obama did what he had to because the GOP obstructed his Presidency.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 06:33 PM   #351
Delphic Oracle
Master Poster
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,177
Hell, it wasn't even Obama's Memorandum!

It originated from DHS.

https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/...s-children.pdf

Congress, as I recall, voted to "defund" DACA. Which, being a policy that various officials are directed to implement and not a "department" or "program", is comically stupid because if you're not zeroing out the budgets of the entire national security apparatus, you can't defund a policy. There were many howls of outrage about Obama writing his own immigration law. So either these congresspeople don't know immigration law or know they are lying.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 5th September 2017 at 06:35 PM.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 06:55 PM   #352
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,993
Apparently someone let President Goldfish that enacting policy that solely appeals to white nationalists is bad. He's now willing to revisit the decision.

Quote:
President Trump said Tuesday that he would revisit his decision to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program if lawmakers are unable to pass legislation on the matter in the next six months.

"Congress now has 6 months to legalize DACA (something the Obama Administration was unable to do). If they can't, I will revisit this issue!" he wrote on Twitter.
He's right that congress needs to address the issue but his plan is political suicide. I have a feeling that stupid wall is going to factor in to this just make it worse.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 07:01 PM   #353
Civet
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,235
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Apparently someone let President Goldfish that enacting policy that solely appeals to white nationalists is bad. He's now willing to revisit the decision.



He's right that congress needs to address the issue but his plan is political suicide. I have a feeling that stupid wall is going to factor in to this just make it worse.
How strange. I actually thought that making it entirely a problem for Congress was clever in a sleazy sort of way. Announcing this just makes it his headache again when Congress fails to get its act together. Even if he intended to take over the issue again, he shouldn't have told those guys. Alleviates the pressure when Congress should be crazy stressed about this.
Civet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 08:48 PM   #354
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 21,297
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Apparently someone let President Goldfish that enacting policy that solely appeals to white nationalists is bad. He's now willing to revisit the decision.



He's right that congress needs to address the issue but his plan is political suicide. I have a feeling that stupid wall is going to factor in to this just make it worse.

Trump doesn't recognize political suicide as a real thing.

Why would he? The nova like stupidity of the people who voted him in will reassure him that he's right, regardless of reality.
__________________
This space for rent.
In conservative heads!
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 09:20 PM   #355
Molinaro
Illuminator
 
Molinaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,041
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I won't defend it - I think it's both mean and unnecessary at the same time.

Overall, people are an asset, not a liability. These folks pose virtually no risk to the US, and should have a clear path to citizenship.

At best, one can point out that President Obama took the easy way out. He could have fought for legislation to pass the Dreamer Act in some quasi-permanent form. Instead, he chose to rule by edict. The downside is how easy it is to counter an Executive Order with another Executive Order.
Recording history, not with a pen, not with pixels, but with an eraser.

It's the Republican way.
__________________
100% Cannuck!
Molinaro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 10:00 PM   #356
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,259
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
That quote cites John "The Walrus" Bolton's arguments against the Iran agreement. That guy is a disaster - one of Shrub's worst appointments as Ambassador the the UN. His ready-shoot-aim approach to politics is a classic example of black and white thinking.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 5th September 2017, 10:05 PM   #357
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,259
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
One thing that never stops amazing me - he added a nice, 6-month deadline.
Here's what I consider excellent commentary on the 60-month scam.

ETA:
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Apparently someone let President Goldfish that enacting policy that solely appeals to white nationalists is bad. He's now willing to revisit the decision.
That article points out that Trump being willing to reconsider in six months is not only a sham but, in my view, cruelly dangling hope in front of desperate people. Trump is lower than a snake's belly.

Last edited by SezMe; 5th September 2017 at 10:19 PM.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th September 2017, 02:04 AM   #358
KDLarsen
Illuminator
 
KDLarsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,623
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
He's right that congress needs to address the issue but his plan is political suicide. I have a feeling that stupid wall is going to factor in to this just make it worse.
Ding! Ding! Ding!

Quote:
A short time later, CNN’s Jim Acosta followed up by asking by asking, “It sounds like the president is saying and you’re saying that, ‘If we’re going to allow the DREAMers to stay in this country, we want a wall.’ Is that accurate?”

Sanders didn’t deny that it was.

“I don’t think that the president has been shy about the fact that he wants a wall and certainly that’s something that he feels is an important part of an immigration reform package,” she said.
ThinkProgress: White House press secretary says Trump will now use DREAMers as bargaining chip for border wall
KDLarsen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th September 2017, 02:21 AM   #359
Civet
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,235
Unhappy

Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
The wall is stupid, but this seems like a sound strategy. Hold one of the most sympathetic programs for illegal aliens hostage to get the wall money that was supposed to come from Mexico. Wonder how much of a win Trump might squeeze out of this. Of course it depends on a shabby Congress being able to take action and they could just screw that up. This is all pretty fascinating in messed up ways.
Civet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th September 2017, 02:30 AM   #360
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Next door to Florida Man, world's worst superhero.
Posts: 14,942
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You should pay more attention to how Trump works.
There's a difference between claiming credit and getting credit.
Craig4 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:56 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.